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This report consults of thirteen volames. 

Yoliime I contains the report of the committee and the views of the minority. 

Yolume H contains the testimony taken by the committee in relation to North Caro- 
lioa^ and the repo xt of the tiials in the United States circnit court held at Raleigh, 
Korth Carolina. 

Yolnmes HI, IV, and Y contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to 
South Carolina, and the rei>ort of the trials in the United States circnit conrt held at 
Cohmibla, Soatb Carolina. Index to the three volumes is contained in volume III. 

Yolnmes YI and VII contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to Geor- 
gia. Index is contained in volume YI. 

Yolomea Vllly IX, and X contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to 
Alahftinit Index is contained in volume YIH. 

Yolames XI and XII contain testimony taken by the committee in relation to Mis- 
nntppi. Index is contained in volnme XI. 

Ydnme XHI contains miscellaneous testimony taken by the committee, testimony 
m relation to Florida, and miBcellaneous documents. 

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ALABAMA— Continned. 

HuNTSvnxB, Alabama, October 9, 1871. 

WILLIAM MATHEWS (colored) sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Were yon a witness against William Henderson, a colored man, on an ex- 
amination had before Commissioner Day in this place f 

Anstoer, Yee, sir. 

Question, Did yon testify that Henderson was a man of bad character f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I teetmed that, bnt I was bound to do it ; I could not help my- 

Question. What was the reason of that f 

Answer. If I had not sworn that, when I went back— for everything I possessed was 
there—they said that I might, ^rhaps. have been treated worse than ho was. 

Question. Who did you live with at tnat time f 

Answer. With Mr. Whit Newsome. 

Question. How near was that to William Malone f 

Answer. I don't know, sir; I guess it is about two or three or four miles.. L never, 
was over to Mr. Malone's place in my life. I was cooking for Whit Newsome. 

Question. What did Whit Newsome have to do with the Henderson affair? 

Answer. WeU, sir, Mr. Holseapple was his brother-in-law ; that is the way ho was 
interested about it. > 

Question. Who told you to swear the way you didf 

Answer. Mr. Newsome told me. 

Question. Did he tell you he wanted to protect Holseapple f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did you swear to the truth in that examination f 

Answer. No, «r. 

Question. You may tell the committee now what kind of a man William ELendersoo 
is and was at that time. 

Answer. I never has found nothing wrong with William Henderson. He always 
■bowed me cood partiality, and both to white and colored, as for as I can say.. Hiui 
and Mr. Malone had a littiie scrape there together once, and they, all got do wa on him 
on that account. That is all I could say. ^ V 

41 j^ . Digitized by VjOOglC 


Question. Did he have a good character ^binong the colored people f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How was he respected among the white people, exceot Malone f 

Anstoer. He was respected every way by all every way except Mr. Malone and a few 

others aroand there, Mr. , I can't think of Jiis name, and the two men that were 

here that served him the act that they did. 

Question, You wish to recant all yon said in your former examination ? 

Answer, ffes, sir. 

Question. Was there another colored man who testified against him ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. « 

Question. Did he swear against Henderson for the same reason that yon did ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; that is what he told me. I cau't say whether it is so for certain 
or not, bnt he told me that. 

QuesUon. Who was he working for ? 

Answer. He was working for William Malone, the other colored* man was. 

Question. Did he say he swore as ho did on account of fear of Malone f 

Jnmoer. No, sir; he was paid for it. 

Question, Paid for swearing as he did f 

Answer. He told me he would get |50 when he got home. 

Question. What was his name f 

Answer. His name was Jim Carter. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Qnestlon. Since this trial have yon been living with Mr. Newsome f 
Answer. Yc«, sir. 

Question. Do you live there now f 
Answer. N(^ sir. 

Question. When did you leave there ? 
Anstoer. I left tliere four weeks to-day. 
(>uc«f /on. Where do you live now ? 
Answer. I stay out hero with Alfred Cleary. 
Question. Near Huntsvillc ? 
Answer. Yes, sir ; right across here. I had to leave there ; I could not stay there. 

By the Chairman : 

Qtiesiion. Why did you have to leave t 

Answer. I was engaged to {jet married to a woman, and she come over there to Mr. 
Newsonic's, and I went off with her that night to her house, and the next mominff he 
Mowed that I didn't attend to my business ; that I was running all over the"v^holo 
country, and he expected to handle me for it, and he took my clothes from me and 
gave them to another colored man ; so I come away. He took all my clothing and my 
wages. I never got none of my wages at all from him. 

Question, How much is due from Mr. Newsome to you f 

Answer. Ten dollars is due. ^ 

• Question. Does he refuse to pay you ? 

An9wer. Yes, sir. 

•By Mr. Bkck : 

Question. Jim Carter, did you say, was this man f 

Anmcer. Yes, sir. * 

Question. Wbere did Jim Carter tell you he was to be paid for swearing the way he 

Answer. He told me that down at the depot, sir. 

Question. When Y 

Answer. Mo and him was sitting together that same night that the trial caiyie cm 
here, like as if it wus to-day, and it was that night. He was at the depot to see ; we 
was all taking the tmin for home ; he could not get home until Sunday morning. Me . 
and him was m chat together, and he told me that himself. 

Question. Is he a colorexl man of pretty good character 1 

AnsiDcr. Yes, sir ; as far as I know. I never was in his company bnt once in my life, 
and that was when he came here. 

Question. How long had you known William Henderson t 

An^oer. I have known William Henderson ever since the 14th of Maroh. 

Question. Last March f 

Answer, Yes, sin 

Question. Where wa& he working when you knew him t 

Answer. At Mr. Goodloe's. 

Question. Had you never known him before that ? 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. What whit» men have yon ever hoard give him a good charaoter sii^ee 
;henf ^ 


..i,. ... 

Answer. I have never beard any white men but Mr. Goodloe speak well of him. I 
never heard none say anything about him more than them he was in attack with. 

QuesHtm, You have told the committee, have you not, that he had a good charaeter 
from both white and black f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; so far as I can say. 

Question. What white man have you ever heard give him a good character? 

Answer. I have heard Mr. Thorn, down at Cherokee, say Henderson was a pretty 
clever fellow, and always paid his debts. No difference what he owed, he always tried 
to pay. « 

Question, Is that the only white man yon have ever heard talk of him f 

Answer. That is the only one I have heard speak of him so far. 

QuesUon. That is the only knowledge you have of what white men say of his char- 

Answer. Yes, sir. . ^ 

Question. Where is he living now f 

Answer. William Henderson f 

Question. Yes, sir. 

Answer. He is here in HuntsviUe. 

Qticstion. When did you tell him yon wanted to come here and admit that you had 
Bwom falsely at the examination f 

Answer. 1 told him so on Friday, last Friday.* 

Question, Did you hunt him np or did he hunt you f ' 

Anewer. Ho didn't hunt me and I didn't hunt him. I was draying, and in passing I 
' saw him, and spoke to him and he^spoko to me. 

Question. Who brought on the conversation ? 

Answer. I did. 

Question. What did you say to him f 

Answer. I called him and told him a man had told me that he had been inquiring 
whether I was in the town, and he told me that he didn't inquire for any one, and I 
told him he needn't think any way hard of me for swearing against him in tbis conrt, 
for be knew how it was below as well as I did, and I was willing to come here and 
testify that I was wrong and could not help myself. 

Question. What did Whit Newsome tell you to say about your testimony ? 

Answer. He told me to come here and swear that Henderson had no principle nor 
character amongst neither white nor color. 

QwBsiion. What else did he tell you f 

Answer. There is a great many other little things he told me that he wanted me to 
say, but I can't recollect. 

Question. Did he thr^ten you ? 

Answer. Ho told me I had better do as he said, for if I didn't I couldn't stay there, 
for probably I might be treated in the same expects that he was or worse, but by who 
he couldn't say to me. 

Question. Was that before the trial came on ? 
* Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How long before f 

Answer. It was four days before the trial. 

QuesHon. You did come to swear to a lie ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; J did come to swear to a lie. 

Question. Was whatever else you stated on that trial true, except what yon said as 
to tbe character oi that man f 

Answer. I can't say nothing about anything; but what I swore myself I can speak 
of that. 

Question. I ask if whatever else yon said on that trial was true, except as to what 
yoa stated as to Henderson's character? 

Answer. No, sir ; what I said on that trial there was nothing of it true ; nothing at 
aH except one thing. I spoke about me and him having a little cross words on the 
rood, which we met by ourselves t-ogether, and ailor these white men had to come here 
aod be tried ; they call that in too. « 

Qn^esHon. So that your whole testimony, from beginning to end on that trial, was a 

Answer. Tes, wr: the whole testimony was not true at all. 

QuesOoM. Did Wait Newsome ask you to swear to anything else except the bad char* 
aeter of tbis man T 

Ansfwer. He asked me would I swear where Mr. Holseapple was the night Henderson 
was carried to the river. I told him I could not swear, because I didn^ know where 
Mr. Holseapple was, because I had been to the mill that day. His mill was broken 
opea Uiat night that Henderson was taken to the river, and some flour was taken out, 
aMbe wanted me to swear that Mr. Holseapple was at his mill. I told him I didn't know 
ifltfWP Mm* Holseapple waa that night. Then he came back to me in the kitchen, where 
I was Irj myself, and he sat down. in a chair, and said, ** I tell you, William, you have 



got to do as I tell yoa, or probably yoa may bo done worse than HendersoD was, or 
treated in the same expects, or worse expects." 

Question, Is there anythiof? else connected with your testimony, aboat which lie 
made any statement, except that, that yoa recollect f 

Jn»trer. No, sir ; not that I recollect. 

QvcHion, 1 want yon to think, as well as yon can, whether Newsome went any farther 
than to get yoa to swear to Henderson's bad character, and trying to get yoa to swear 
where liolseapple was. Do yoa think that was all f 

Answer, Yes, sir; I think that was all. 

Question, That being the case, I want to ask yoa this qaestion : Toa swore on that 
examination, as I see by the testimony here, that William Henderson had a conversa- 
tion on the road with yon, and said that if he coald get a party of men like himself, 
and kill out sdl the G---d d — n white men and yellow niggers, the State wonld be better 
than it is. Albert Qoodloe was there. 

Anstcer. Yes, sir ; I did state that. ' . 

Question, Did Mr. Newsome or anybody else tell yoa to say (hatf 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I was told to say that. 

Question, Who told yoa to say that ? 

Answer. Mr. Newsome told me. 

Qnestion, Why did you not tell me when I asked yoa as important a thing as that? 

Answer, I didn't remember it. 

Question. Yoa had forgotteo that f 

Aiiswer, Yes, sir. 

Question. And this conversation William Henderson had with you on the road coming 
here, yoa say t 

Answer, Coming here f 

Question, Was it not on the road coming here f 

Ansiver. No, sir. 

Question, Where did yon locate that? 

Answer. We were working the pablic road from Barton Station to Cherokee, and me 
and him got into a dispute. I was working with a parcel of white men ; he woe 
working with a crowd of colored. I was sitting down. The whole party, white and 
colored, that was working together, was sitting down, and Henderson came along and 
said, *' William Mathews, why aint you at work f " I told him, ** Go on ; that is always 
the way with a nigger ; he is always meddling with what he has no business.'' That 
brought as into a Tittle cross-questioning together, but we made that over — made it up 

Question, What was the cross-questioning T 

Answer, He was intending to whip me that day on the road. 

Question. Who was! 

Answer. Henderson ; and he came to me I was on a horse riding in the road, car- 
rying the overseer's horse np the road to him, and Henderson stepped up to me and 
said, '^William Mathews, what did yoa say about me on the roaclf" I told him I 
didn't say nothing more about him than any one else. He says, *'I am out here on 
purpose to make yon whip me or I whip you." I told him, ** If you can't take a joke, 
you onghtu't to be in a party at all." That about all the yellow niggers and white 
people, Mr. Newsome told me to say that himself. 

Question, How did Newsome know of this quarrel between yoa and Henderson T 

Answer. 1 and him was in the kitchen together that night, and Air. Nelson told him 
that Henderson wanted to' whip me on the road, and he wouldn't let him dolt, aud 
wouldn't let as tight. There is where he got hold of it. 

Question, What did he say that night in the kitchen about thatf 

Answer, He told me that night that I must mind; that I had to come back the road 
next day, and I must raise no fiisses on the road at all ; that I was a stranger in the 
country, and had nobody to protect me in the country but them, imd I bad better he 

Questwn, How did yoa come to swear to tbat statement on the trial f 

Ansioer, Because I was told to do it. » 

Question. Who told yoa, and when were yon toldt 

Ansxcer, Mr. Newsome told me, but I can't say what day of the month it was ttiat I 
wa« told ; but he told me to do it. 

Question. Tell us what he told you to say. 

A^mcer. He told me to come ap here and swear against Henderson's character and 
principle, he did, and he told me to swear where Mr. Holseapple was the night his 
mill got broken open. I told him I couldn't swear about the mill, because I didn't 
know where Mr. Holseapple was that night. He got up then and went into the hoase^ 
and came back; and told me, '* William, yon had better do as I say, for probably yoa 
may be treated with the same expects or worse than Henderson was, anu if. yoa don't 
go and swear something for these men you can leave here ; and if you gets away, yoa 
may probably never be any aocoont to yoarseU'." ^ 


Qwestion. Do von again repeat tbat last statement which yon have just made as the 
•abdtance of what Mr. Newsome told you f 

Answrr. Yes, sir. 

Que$tion. I ask yoa again, if that is the sabstance of what he told yon, how came 
TOQ to swear that Henderson said to yon, on the road, that if he could get a party like 
hitnself, and kill all the G~d d— -n white men and yellow niggers in the State, it would 
be better ofi'f If Newsome did not tell you to do it, why did you swear it ? 

Answer. He did tell me to do it. 

Qutstian. Have you not repeated to me twice what he told you to do, and left that 

Answer. He told me to swear that. 

Question. When and where did he tell you to swear that f 

Answer. Bight in his own kitchen. 

(Question. Why have yon failed to statb that he told you to swear that, though I have 
twice called your attention to it f 

Answer. I told you that twice. 

Question, Yon haVe already stated that Mr. Newsome told you to swear that? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; he told me to swear everything that I did swear. 

Question. You say Albert Goodloe was theie; who was he f 

Answer. He lives on Mr. Goodloe's place. 

Question. Why did you say he was there T 

Answer. I was told to say so. 

Question. Was Albert Goodloe there t ^ 

Answer. He was working in the party of men, but I do not know whether Albert 
heard that expression made or not. 

Question. Was that expression made f 

Answer. If it was I didn't hear it. 

Question. Who told you to say Albert Gk>odloe was there f 

Answer. Mr. Newsome told me to say so. 

Questipng At the same time that he told you toswear as to Henderson's bad char- 
acter f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. And you swore to that falsehood, also, because he told you to f 

Answer. Yes, sir. t 

Question. Is Henderson living in this to\^*n also now? 

Answer. He is in this town. I don't know whether he is living here or not. I can't 
Bay. I have never been to his house. I see him on the street every day. 

Question. Who are you living with f 

Answer. Alfred Cleary. 

Question. A white or a colored man f 

Answer. A colored man. 

Question. Where did you live before you went to Mr. Newsome f 

Answer. I was with John Robinson's circus before I went to Mr. Newsome's. 

Question. Traveling around the country with a circus f 

Answer. Yes, sir. ^ 

Question, What were you doing with the circus f 

Answer. Tending to the horses. 

Quesiium, A driver or rubber? 

Answer, Bnbber. 

Question. How long had you been with the circus ? 

Answer. Twelve months. » 

Question. Where were you when Bobinson & Co.'s circus employed yon f 

Anower. At Aufusta, Georgia, Richmond County. 

Ques^on. How long bad you lived there, and what were you doing there f 

Answer. I was bom and raised there. 

Question. Who was you living with when Robinson's circus picked you up f 

Answer. With m^ old master. ^ 

Question. What is his name ? 

Answer. Thoma^ 8. Oliver. 

Question. You had lived with him all your days ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. * 

Qu^sHon. What is his post-office ? 

Answer. He was a farmer. ' ' 

QmesHon. Do you recollect the name of the post-office where you got your letters ? 

Answtw, Augusta post-office. 

^utUon* Do you mean in the city of Augusta ? 

AMswer. Yes, sir. 
' i^smtion. Did Thomas S. Oliver get his letters in the city of Augustarand was that 

U*i^QitK)ffiee? Digitized by CjOOQ 

-^JMwcr. Ye6,8ir. ^ 


Question, Why did yoa qnft the oircns f 

Answer, They didn't have do farther use or employment for me. 

Question, Did Mr. Newsome take a suit of clothes away from you that belonged to 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Had yon paid for them f 

Anstoer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Where did he find these clothes t 

Answer, My pants was in his kitchen, and my shirt at the woman's house that washed 
tor me. 

Question, Did he go and take them t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did you see him take them t 

Ansu>er, He took them and put them on another man, and I went right to the plaee. 
He took them at night, and the next morning he put them on another man, and I went 
and saw them x>n the man, and I asked him before Mr. Newsome's face how he came 
by my clothes. He tiaid Mr. Newsome gave them to him. 

Question, And ho refused you your wages f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, What is Mr. Newsome's post-office ; where does he get his letters f 

Answer, Cherokee. 

Question, In what county f 

Answer, Colbert County. 

Question. What is his first name f 

Answer, Whit Newsome. 

HuNTSViLLE, Alabama, October 9, 1871. 
DANIEL COLEMAN sworn and examined. 

The Chairman. As this witness was called by the minority, I will ask that the 
examination be conducted by Mr. Beck. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question, State where you reside, and what official position, if any, you hold. 

Answer^ I reside in AUiens, Limestone County. I hold the position now of county 
solicitor, and have held it about three or four weeks. 

Question, How long nave you resided there ? 

Answer. 1 was born there, and have resided there all my life, with the exception of 
one year that I Was in Florence, since the war, and one year in Decatur. 

Question. We are inquiring, as you know, into the general condition of the country, 
as to how the laws are obeyed, as to how far life, li&rty, and property are rendered 
insecure by ban^ of disguised men, and we call you espiKjially, I believe, to inquire 
into the condition of affairs in Limestone, and more especially as to the outrages com- 
mitted upon Mr. Weir. Will you tell us what you know upon these subjects, without 
being specially interrogated f Perhaps you will do it in a more satisfactory way than 
by separate questions. 

Ansu^er, Well, sir, there have been in the last eighteen months in Limestone County 
seveoAl outrages committed upon individuals. In the case of Mr. Weir — I take it from 
his own account of it — first in the spring of this year he was maltreated by several 
parties against whom complaint was brought in the probate court in Limestone County, 
and they were arrested, and gave bond, and were being prosecuted. Mr. Weir was tile 
main witness, if not, perhaps, the sole witness to the main part of the transaction. 

Question. Was that original outrage upon him committed by disguised men or not f 

Answer, ft was not by disguised men. The outrage committed by disguised men 
was about two or three weeks ago. 

Question. On him t 

Anstoer, Yes, sir, a few days after I came into the ollce of 8olicift>r. He was taken, 
as be stated, by a band of disguised men, and carrie<f off and maltreated in many par- 
ticulars« He was held a prisoner by them, for, I suppose, about thirty-six hours, and 
then turned loose, with the promise from him that he would not appear in court in the 
prosecution pending against these other parties, who had maltreated him. 

Question. What did he say was the cause of this maltreatment of him t 

Answer. He said it was a personal affair betwo n him and a man by the name of 
William Blair, in regard to some colored employt's of Mr Blair; that the accusation 
was brought against him that he had interfered with Blair's laborers, trying to persuade 
them to leave him. Ho stated especially to me, on several occasions, that it was nothing 
political ; that it was entirely personal. 


Quet^icm. Did the people of the connty, nnder the sheriff or yourself, or some other 
official, when this abdaction was heard ol^ take any steps to ferret it oat t 

Anmoer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Tell ns all about that. 

Anmver, The information came to me on Sunday evening at early sundown. I wanted 
to go at once, but we could not make arrangement to get the horeee. It was twelve or 
thirteen miles in the country. I made out a posse and had them summoned. The 
sheriff was absent. I got the deputy sheriff to Bummon a posse, and upon summoning 
Hum, I found it would be so late in the night at the time. we could get there, that we 
could not effect anything, so we postponed it until Monday morning, and on Monday 
morning we went down early with a posse of at least tweuty-ftve men, mounted and 
well armed with double-barreled shot-guns. We went to Mr. Weir's house, and obtained 
what information we could in regard to him, and searched in every direction. We 
staid there during Monday and Monday night in the neighborhood, the community 
making every possible search they could to find out what they could in re^rd to the 
abduction, and, as we feared at that time^ murder, but we found outmothing at all. 
We went down Monday. Tuesday we still remained there brushing the woods. I 
fonued the men into long lines of what used to be called in the Army skirmishers, and 
breasted the woods in every direction, hoping wo might find him. On Wednesday I 
saw a young man from the neighborhood, Mr. Weir's son-in-law, and as he passed by 
me I suspected, firom his expression, that he had some information. I went to him, and 
told him if he had any information I wanted him to confide it to me. I asked him first 
if he had any information concerning Mr. Weir. He said he had .not. I said, ^*Mr. 
Basham, have you any information concerning Mr. Weir t " I had feared, in regard to 
Basham, for Basham's father had been connected in the first maltreatment of Mr. 
Weir, and was deeply connected with it, and this young man was the son-in-law of 
Mr. Weir. I had been fearing to trust him from the information given me by Mrs. 
Weir. That was the reason I was so particular about asking him whether he had any 
information or not. I stated to him, '^ Mr. Basham, there is no possible chance of fer- 
reting out this thing unless I receive evoi*y information which possibly can be obtained.'' 
He says, ** I have no information concerning Mr. Weir." It was not'more than half an 
hour before the sheriff came to me, and told me that Mr. Weir was either at home or 
near home, and that ho hud sent him a message by Mr. Basham to come down privately 
by himself; that he wanted to see him on particular business. The sheriff stated to 
me, "I am a bondsman of Mr. Weir." The prosecutors of the parties who first mal- 
treated Mr. Weir had suspected that Mr. Weir would be intimidated from appearing as 
a witness, and had issued an attachment for him, and requiring him to give bond for 
bis appearance in the probate court. 

Questum, That is, the men who were prosecuting those who had maltreated him f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

QuaUon, It was to secure his attendance t 

Answer, Yes, sir; to keep him from leaving from intimidation or promises that might 
be made. They had require<l a bond, and the sheriff had gone on his bond. The sheriff 
stated to me, "I think Mr. Weir wants to see me privately, probably to leave, and he 
thinks I am his bondsman, and that he will secure me in some way and just let him 
leave." I immediately stated tq the sheriff, '' That will not do, if that is the case, and 
we had better go down at once and seize Mr. Weir, and bring him to town under a 
guard for protection. If there is any danger of his leaving, and if you have that fear 
that he will make arrangements with you, or that it is his object to make arrange- 
ments with you to leave, I will go down at once with a guard myself." 1 brought out 
a guard, the posse summoned by the deputy sheriff, and we went down — the same 
poose we had before. Mr. Weir, as I understood from the guard, was in the woods near 
the house secreted at the time, and I had him sent for to ask him all about the trans- 
action that had occurred with him, and further asked him if it was not his object to 
leave. He said he had«intended to leave, but if we sbowe<l a willingness to protect 
him, and there seemed to be a sufficient force of citizens there to protect him, he would 
submit to my directions. I told him to get ready at once, and wo would carry him to 
town, and his family, so far as they were important witnesses, and we would carry out 
the prosecution vigorously, and he need have no more fears of the men who had mal- 
teeated him. He expressed full confidence in us, going on down with us. Meantime, 
while he was giving his account of it, which occupied a considerable length of time, he 
came to where he knew some of the parties. As soon as he stated that, I ordered- the 
•beriff to go and arrest them, and a special picked guard was sent to arrest one of the 
parties, and men were sent to all the other houses of the parties, but they were absent 
and gone. We arrested, tliough, the main man concerned in it, and brought hhn to 
town the next morning. We staid there all night. I sent out detachmontfi for other 
men, but they were not found out, and they never have been found since. Most vigor- 
ous efforts have been ma<le to find them, but I am satisfied they have leff the country. 
One of them has sold out all his interest and left the country. ,tized by vjOOQ 


Queetion, Have yon, as well as the other officials and the people of Limestone Conuty, 
takea every possible means to secare the conviction of these men if they are guilty? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; the county commissioners' court — I do not know that you under- 
stand pur system of commissioners' courts. 

QtieaiUm, I do not. 

Answer, We have a court—the prohate judge of the county — called the probate court, 
and, as a sort of staff officers of the probate court, we have connty commissioners in 
varions portions of the connty, who transact the financial business of the county. They 
have to do with roads and the paying out of funds. That is their main duty. They had, 
as assistance to the solicitor, employed two of the best lawyers in Athens, General 
Houston and Mr. Luke Pry or, to prosecute this case. 

Question, General Houston, the old representative t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, And Prior, a man of eminent ability? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; they are among the first lawyers in Alabama. General Houston is 
an ex-congresshian of the old Congress. The commissioners' court had employed these 
distinguished lawyers to prosecute the persecutors of Esquire Weir for the first outrage 
of lynching in the spring; and these men, in their last assault in disguise on Weir, 
repeatedly, during the time in which they held him, taunted him with that fact, saying, 
"Where is your commissioners' court now? What do you think of your coinmis- 
sioners' court ?'* The people, in a mass meeting which wo held in connection with the 
disturbance in our c(muty, had adopted a resolution indorsing the action of tho com- 
missioners' court in employing counsel. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Have you a copy of tl^at resolution ? 

Answer. I have not. I can furnish a copy before I leave. It is published in our 
papers of last week. You will notice that, in the resolution ptissed, there are no names 
called, or any especial cases of outrage mentioned, fr6m the fact that these parties 
were at large, and it was not deemed prudent to mention their names, as they might 
be frighten^, and we might not then be able to get hold of them. It is mentioned in 
a general way on that account. [The resolution referred to will be found at the end of 
the testimony of this witness.") I have also, by recommendation of the county meetinfi(, 
spplied, but have not yet had time to receive an answer, to the g<»vernor for a reward 
for each one of these men — the highest. reward for each one of the parties connected 
with the man Moore whom we have arrested. We also took every precaution for th'o 
nafe-keeping of Mr. Moore, thinking, that if he had any parties who could render him 
assistance, that they might interfere with our jail, and we had him transferred to the 
Huntsville jail. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. He is here now, in this city, in jail ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; he is here now awaiting a prosecution in the case. 

QuesUon, What is the public sentiment of the men of the county of Limestone in 
regard to these outrages committed by disguised men — the wl\itt/ people ? 

Answer, Well, sir, there is a great feeling of indignation upon the part of the masses 
of the coflnty. 

Question. When you speak of masses, do you speak of the people regardless of their 
political opinions T 

Anstoer, Yes, sir. 

Question. What is the politics in your county of the white men; republican or 
democratic ? 

Answer. It is democratic 

Qtiestion. Do republicans and democrats alike unite in denouncing these things and 
taking all active measures to put them down ? * 

Anstoer. Yes, sir ; I was iaeconded in my motions — the second mo"we I made in behalf 
of Mr. Weir — very vigorously by Mr. Lamb, a well-known republican there. His senti- 
ments are not concesded at all. 

Question. You are, yourself, a democrat ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. The sheriff is a republican ? 

Anstoer, Yes sir. 

Question, He and you acted in concert ? 

Answer. Yes, sir; in concert. 

Question. Do your people generally, both democrats and republicans, act in concert 
in sustaining tho commissioners' court in employing counsel and in the condemnation 
of lawlessness ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; we have acted in thorough concert. 

Question, What is this organization now in your county? Is it Ku-Klux, or what 


Jntwer. Well, sir, I think it consists of disgaised men who ue somewhat or^nized, 
who have banded together for the purpose of horse-thieving, stealing, and thieving 
genially, and, whenever they have any private or malicious purpose to carry out, for 
assisting one another in that ; that they are men who do not labor, and are disposed to 
make their living by preying upon the country. I think the main man, Mr. Gibson, 
has beeo engaged in a clan of that kind for some time, and I think they have taken 
the disguise of what was once called the old Ku-Klux organization, to pami themselves 
off as Ku-Klux, and do their devilment in disguise, so that they may not be known. 

QwegUon. Do you think that they have any body of men acting with them else- 
where through the State, or adjoining county, or are thoy local f 

AnstDcr, So far as the horse-thieving is concerned, I have some information since I 
have come into the solicitor's office, that they are aided by what might be called a line 
of men reaching into Kentucky, a sort of courier line, for the purpose of running out 
good horses from the better portions of the country. 

QumUon, You have some ^ood horses there f 

Answer. We have. It is lor running them off. It extends clear up into Ohio. Since 
I was in the solicitor's office I have seen a communication recommending one of these 
men, who is known as a horse-thief— Campbell Mcintosh — to some friend in Columbus, 
Ohio, showing that it runs some distance. 

QmaUan, These bands are now disguising themselves as a band of plunderers t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Quetikm, Do you think that in the county of Limestone your State courts, with the 
energy you are now displaying, will be able to put them down and break them up f 

Answer, Yes, sir, I think so. We have a good law and I have found no difficulty in 
having it executed. This is not the first effort I have made against disguised men. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

QmtsH^n^ What law do you refer to as an excellent one f 

Anmcer, 1 refer to the disguise law. I will make an exceptiou in regard to that law 
whieh I think is a clog upon it ; that is, that portion of it which assiuiilates it to the 
law of the old hundred, ^as lawyers, some of yon will understand me,) in which it 
makes the county responsible for outrages committed whore parties are not prosecuted; 
and I think it takes away the motive lor vigorous prosecution by the solicitor. 

By Mr. Beck: 9 

Question, In other words, the men in the county do not feel as zealous when they 
have to pay the damage themselves ? 

Antwer, No, sir, it does not stimulate the solicitor. ' The solicitor is entitled to $oOO 
if nobody is prosecuted; I think that paralyzes the efforts of the solicitor; in other 
words, it holds out a reward to him in the event that nobody is found to be prose- 
cuted or dug out and ferreted out. He says, here is a chance to make a fee, and that 
operates on all humanity alike. 

Qv^eatian, To make a fee off of the county f 

Antwer, Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley : ' 

Qwetiion, With that exception, you think it is a good law T 
Answer, Yee, sir, if that portion were abolished, it would be good. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Qnettion, The way it stands now he is interested in not having a prosecution f 

AntvBer. Yes, sir, the solicitor is. 

Question, He makes money by having the real offender get away f 

Answer, Yes, sir, he does, and by uolM>dy being found out and discovered. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

(fuestion. Here is the law of December 26, 1868, by the legislature of Alabama. 
[Submitting Acts of 1868.] WiU you specify the section you refer to T 

Answer. [Examining.] This is not the law I have reference to. Will you find me the 
law in reference to lynching, where counties are responsible in civil suits where parties 
are not prosecnted T 

Question, Is this the law approved December 28, 1868 f 

Answer, Yes, sir, to suppress murder, lynching, and assaults and batteries. 

By Mr. Beck : 

^^uttion, Will^you specify the section f 

Auwer, Section eight ; and I think a great deal depends on the solicitor ; this is the 
^vioon, (page 462 :) That it shall be the duty of the county solicitor to prosecute the 
•int far the claims in the name of the widow, husband, or any one arraigned, though a 
B'iAor, Cor which he shall receive ten per ceut. of the amount recovered. 


By the Chairman : 
Question. What is the value of a life taken, a^ fixed in that statute f 
Anaicer, Five thousaud dollars is the penalty, and this is the provision, where there 
is no prosecution, where the parties are not discovered, that the solicitor is entitled to 
bring a suit upon the county, and if the widow does not prosecute the man, he is re- 
quired to bring it in his own name, so that wherever a prosecution is begun by a solic- 
it4>r there is no chance for a fee out of the county ; in other words, I think it takes away 
the stimulus that there would be to the solicitor if he had uo fee. The present law 
gives a premium to non-prosecution of the real oflfenders by mxkkiug the county re- 
sponsible in case there is no prosecution. 

By Mr. Beck : 
- Question. It takes away the stimulus to cat<;h the real offender f 

Atiswer, Yes, sir ; to ferret him out. I will say that our county has had a good rep- 
utatiou, over since the war, for two or three years, for law and order. In justice to the 
county I suppose I ought 'to say, while the former solicitor, my predecessor, was a 
friend of mine, yet I do not think ho ha<l that vigorousness, and that energy, and that 
firmness of nerve that a proscuting attorney ought to have, aud that was to some exteut 
the cause of the lawlessness in the county ;'that offenders thought they would go no- 
prosecuted, aud that they could violate the law .with impunity where they were not 
prosecuted with sufficient nerve aud vim. 

Question. Are there any organizations in that or the ac^joining counties, so far as you 
know, known asKu-Klux organizations, that have any political bearing? 

Answer. No, sir, not that I know of. 

Question, The disguised men are now, yon think, confined to a set of lawleas men, 
who are doing this for private plunder f 

Answer. That is my opinion. 

Question. And the good men of all parties are zealously endeavoring to pat them 
down T 

Answe)\ Yes, sir. 

Question. And you think they will succeed T 

Anmver. I think they will ; I think they have broken up the last remains of it now. 

Question. Either by capturing or driving them away f 

Answer. Yes, sir. The first effort I was ever engaged in was some time before I was 
solicitor, against disguised men. It was a little over a year ago. 1 heard that dis- 
guised men were threatening the lives of good citizens in those same i>ortion3 of tbe 
county where this affair occurred, and I went to work voluntarily. I was not then so- 
licitor, but was a lawyer, and it was in the neighborhood where my fjirmiug int-en.sts 
lie. I went to work to find out who they were ; I h:ul them arrested ; they are in jail 
now, and have been for the last twelve months, awaiting trial. 

Question. Your county of Limestone adjoins the Tennessee line f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. That, of course, adds.some what to the difficulty of capture, by their escai>- 
ing from your local jurisdiction f 

An»wer. Yes, ^ir. They cross frequently to get into Tennessee, where they think thoy 
will not be pursued, but I have had iheui pursued ; I ha<l one captured in Tennessee 
by having a reward offered— a man who I am satisfied from letters written from him 
is one of these disguised men who committed a murder in our county upon one of Lis 
own men. He was captured in Tennessee, aud brought down about teu days ago to 
our jail. His name is Birdsong. 

Question. As Mr. Weir has not yet arrived, and sopo accident may prevent him from 
arriving, we desire you to state Mr. Weir's account of his own maltreatment, and after 
you have done that, give us your version of tbe causes that led to it, referring to the 
first and second maltreatment. 

Answer. I will do so. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. Do you think they aro both connected f 
Answer. Yes, sir; intimately. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. Proceed to state it all. 

Answer. Mr. Weir made a statement before the committin|^ magistrate, upon which 
I have had one of the parties who was charged with the last ill-treatment arrested. I 
have had a preliminary investigation. He stated before the magistrate that the first 
maltreatment of him occurred at Dr. Blair's shop, at which he had been in the habit 
of working as a wood workman, fixing wagons ; that he was at homd one morning. I 
think last March, anyhow some time in the spring ; that he received a note from Mr. 
Frank Gibson, telling him to come down to the shop. The note was not in the form 
of a request, but saying, " You come down to the shop ; I want to see you on particular 


bndneaB." When he cot down to the shop, there were Mr. Moore, Mr. Gibson, Mr. Pink 
JohnsoD, Mr. James Bradford, Mr. Bud Harlan, aud three colored meu, one by the 
Damti of James Kelley, aud I cannot think of the other two. Tliey were at the shop. 
Upon his arrival there, these parties I have mentioned came op around him, and Mr. 
Moore, who was the spokesman of the party, wanted to know of him how.ifc was about 
that matter — about advising one of these colored men to steal some mules and ruu 
ftway with them. That was one of the accusations that they had against him. 

By Mr. Buckley: 

QuesHoiu Stealin|i; mules from whom T 

Atmeer, Stealing them from — 1 can't remember who, exactly, but I think it was from 
Moore and Blair. I am not certain^about tiiat. That was the accusation, mentioning 
the place and time, I think upon the Fort Hampton road ; that the negro was to take 
the mules out of the wagon and run off with them. They brought an accusation 
againBt him that he had tried to influence Jim KoUey and the other colored men to 
we some mules and run off with them ; that he had tried to influence James Kelley, 
the colore employd of Moore and Blair, to leave their service. Moore and Blair, it 
seems, kept a distillery, and this man was employed about the distillery in some shape 
or form, I do not remember what; but the accusation was that he had tried t^ influ- 
ence Jim Kelley, a colored man, to leave the service of Moore and Blair, or perhaps of 
Blair, for it was in connection with Blair that he mentioned it, (for I know that Moore 
aod Blair kept a distillery ;) this was a man in the service of Blair. — that he said, '*I 
have worked for Blair^ and I know he does not pay, for he has not paid me." 

By the Chaihman : 
Question. Who said that f 
Awwer. Weir, they said, made that statement. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. They accused him of saying to the netro that he ought to leave Blair's em- 
ployment as Blair would not pay him, because he, Weir, had worked for Blair, and Blair 
bad not paid him. Weir 1 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. That was the accusation f 

AnsiDer. Yes, sir. I have forgotten all the different accusations they brought against 
him. After they got through, they asked him what he had to say about it ; if the accusa- 
tions were true. He said that part of the accusation was true and part false, and . 
Moore stated to him, '* You must confess all of it, or deny all of it." He refused to do 
any other way than to make a partial statement— or that which he claimed to bo true, 
and that which he claimed to be false. He said that meanwhile they were drinking a 
good deal ; they had some brandy there from the still-house, and some of them were 
getting pretty well intoxicated, and a gentleman who was there present and did not 
fieem to be engaged with these other parties present, came to him. and told him to get 
away ; that there was his horse out there; to take him. Weir did not have any horse. 
He told him to take his horse and get away ; that these men were drinking, and he would 
get into trouble. Weir answered, ** No ; they have brought false accusations against 
me, and I intend to light it out right here." He says that shortly after that they got 
anmnd him, aud told him to come with them down into the woods ; both the colored 
men aud the white men ; that two of them had hickory withes in their hands ; Blair 
was one, and I think Gibson was another, but I am not certain. Blair had a hickory 
withe in his hand about four feet long and about an inch around, I think, at the butt 
or end of the whip or withe ; that they led him down into the woods south of the shop 
about two hundred yards, and one of them told him to take off his coat, and some of 
the others objected to it. Somebody said not to take his coat off, and Moore said, " Yes, 
take his coat off"; his coat has done no harm. His wife made that coat." He said they 
took his coat off, and they told the colored men to whip him ; that one of the colored 
men, I think Kelley, expressed some little opposition to whipping him; and some of 
thetn told him to go ahead, and they then hit him several licks. 

By the Chairman : 

QmefUon. The colored men did t 

Answer. YgSj sir, with the withes. That when one of the colored men began to whip, 
his objections to whipping seemed to have vanished, and he hit him several licks with 
Ma wfthe, but did not whip him as hard as some of the white men did afterwards. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Q mmt ion. Was it represented that the others whipped him f 
^ Y<^ sir; that several of them took up the withes and whipped him. 

By the Chairman : ^ GoOqIc 

White men T « ' d 


Anstoer* Yes, sir, white men and colored men. 

Queatimi, Was this Mr. Weir a white man t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. A justice of the peace t 

Answer, Yes, sir. He said upon his getting up— they had not whippe<l him very 
much at first — that they then took him ap and put his clothes on him, and Gibson re- 
marked, " He looks like he was mad. I think you had better give him 8(»mo more," and 
that he and Blair then hit him several licks that he could see. They sort of jerked his 
coat over his liead without taking it off, and Gibson and Blair hit him several licks — 
pretty severe licks. I do not think he said they broke the skin, but I do not remember about 
that. He said after they let him up they asked him if he was willing to confess what 
he had done. He said lie was, and he went on. That was all of that transaction with 

Question. Did ho proceed to make a confession or statement f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; he confessed to them before they went away. 

Question, What did he confess f 

Answer. Ho said he would confess all of their statement»— all their accusations under 
^ these circumstances. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. All of the accusations you have stated before f 

Answer. Yes, sir. He- seemed to have got a little afraid about making the complaiut 
afterward. I do not know who made it, butj I think it was made by some citizens. 
It was taken cognizance of by the commissioner's court and brought before the probate 
court, said these parties were immediately arrest'Cd as soon as the complaint was made. 
They gave bond to appear at the next court, and they have been prosecuted ever since. 
The case has never been tried y^t. It has been before two terms of the probate court 
and not tried. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Was Weir able to identify aU the parties, white and black t 

Answer. Yes, sir ; it was in the day-time. They were not disguised; and he knew 
them all. x 

Question. On the preliminary examination did they pretend to deny his statement 
outright t 

Anstoer. Well, sir, I do not know about their denial of it. They had counsel, and were 
, defended. I do not know about it. I never heard whether they denied or confessed 
it. You mean on the preliminary examination t 

Question, Ye6, sir. 

Answer. A preliminary examination has never taken place on that outrage. There 
has "been a preliminary examination ui>on the last outrage, as to one of the parties 
whom I charged myself. Mr. Weir never charged him, but I had taken it, and I had 
the suspicion that a party living in this county, by the name of Smith, Wiw eonne'ct^d 
with it, and I had him charged myself. That was the preliminary examination that 
has taken place. 

Question. What I wished to inquire of you was how they could be bound over to 
court to answer this charge without a preliminary examination ? 

Answer, Well, before our probate court they waived a preliminary examination, and 
just gave bond to appear before the probate court. That was upon the first maltreat- 

By Mr. BIjcki^ey : 

Question. Do yon recollect the amonnt of bond required t 

Answer. Yes, sir, I think it was $600. I remember SGOO was the bond of Blair. Our 
probate court has jurisdiction over cases of that kind, except where appeals are takea 
to a jury. If they demand a jury the probate court binds over to the circuit court, b«t 
the probate court has now jurisdiction of the case. The State has been ready, I believe, 
every time, but owing to the absence of witnesses the probate judge continued the 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Have continuances been grante<l upon an application of the defendants or 
some of them f 

Answer. Yes, sir, I think so. 

Question. So the original outrage has never been brought to trial yet ? 

Answer. It has not. The last time, I believe, the State continued it from the fact 
that we had Mr. Moore here in jail, and it was inconvonieut. Wo did not want to sep- 
arate. That was the idea. The State concluded not to separate them, for fear they 
might swear for each other, as accomplices, aud we could not get him down there in time 
from this jail, and we concluded to contiuue it. The first time, I think, it waACoci- 
tinned by the defendant, the last time by the State. ^ 


Quaiion, Do I nnderstand you to say this original outrage occarred in Match last f 
Afuwer, I will not atten^it to be accurate about the time, but I think i tvas in the 
^riBg, probably in March. 

By Mr. Bkck : 

QmbHoiu Go on and complete your statement of the other outrage, and what brought 
(hat about. State what he said upon that subject. Give bis statement tlrst and then 
your own. 

An9wer, Now I cannot state to you what transpired, of my own knowledge, of course. 
He says he was at home on Sunday morning. 

By the Chairman : 

(iiu$tion, Sunday morning, bow long since f 

Anttber. About the 10th of September last. That he had just gotten into his house, 
coming from across Elk River at Mr. Lentz's. He said he had been there about half an 
hoar ; that he had his coat and hat off ; he was quite warm in walking ; he was sitting 
in tiie house in a careless kind of way ; that bis wife exclaimed, *' La, Mr. Weir,'' in a 
sorprised, excited manner, ** there are some disguised men in the yard.'' lie looked 
around and saw they were close to his house — five of them ; that they came up, and 
two of them drew their pistols, and presented them toward him, and they took hold 
one at each arm, and hurried him off in the direction of the woods ; that they took him 
about a quarter of a mile, 1 think, and mounted him upon a horse, and blindfolded him 
wiiik the cap, as he thought, of one of the disguised men, or the hood of the horse, I 
have forgotten which, but it was one of the two; they blindfoldeil him, and circled 
about in the womls a good deal. Finally after carrying him, as he thought, about a 
mile, some of them said something about hanging him, and they put a rope arouud hi 9 
neck and hung him up for a little while, until he became almost unconscious. They 
then restored him to his horse, and started in a direction he did not know through the 
woods, occasionally coming to open places, as ho could tell by the light. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. Did you ever hear that the rope broke at that time when they hang him f 
Jnttper. 1 think that was the second time they hung him. They then carried him, 
as be said, through the woods, and after they got, as he thought, about two miles, they 
disDioimted again and carried him up near a tree. He said he could see the base of 
the tree. They put a rope around his neck and showed him the lower end of the rope, 
which was down at his feet, and they hung him up again there a little. All this time, 
ba nid, they were talking to him about bis appearing as a witness at court. • 

By the Chairman : 

Quettion, About his appearinjg as a witness against them T 

Angwer. And about his leaving the county so as not to be here at court. He says 
tiiat at the second hanging he was lifted off the ground, and became unconscious lor 
a little while, and the first thing he knew was a roan putting his hand under his back, 
at he was lying on the ground, and raising him to his feet. I think this was the time 
tfaat this man whisperetl to him, " They will not kill you." All this time tbe^ would 
^eqnently ask him if he was willing to leave the country, and my recollection is he 
woud state he was in the hands of the law. After this second hanging, in which, he 
■lya, he became unconscious, they seemed to have some consultation together, and 
tliey seemed, from what they said, to have a division of sentiment as to what they 
would do with him. One of them said, ** If you won't do what I want you to do, I will 
have Bothinff more to do with it." Meanwhile he had recognized the voices of Mr. 
Moore, Fraak Gibson, and Pink Johnson. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
i^metUon, Was this the same Johnson you have mentioned before f 
Jbwwer. Yes, sir ; the same Johnson. 

By ihe Chairman : 
Qit€8ti<nu The same men who were concerned in the original outrage f 
An9W€T» Yes, sir. These were the same, bat not the whole of them. They raised him 
le hiA feet a second time. I repeat, that I may connect it. There seemed to be a 
tiviflkMi in counsels. Finally, they came and raised him up again, but not off his feet 
It that time. He said they j ast simply tightened the rope on his neck. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, That was after the reply that hfi was in the hands of the law f 
Yes, sir. 

By the Chaibman : 
< f « u s fi oit. Had he been bound over by the magistrate that had bailed these men, to 
— "~ wm a witness at court f ^ 


Anew^.YeSf sir ; an attachment bad been issned by the probate Jndge, not magis- 
trate, for pm, and hb was required to give bond to the probate jndge sitting in term 

QueatUm. Was the sheriff on that bt>nd as snrety f 

Ansicer. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Qiitsiion, I understand yon to say they bailed him, for fear he might, under the in- 
fluence of threats and intimidation, leave the country? 

Answer, Yes, sir. After the second hanging they put him on horseback again, and 
carried him in the direction which afterward turned out to be that of the Tennessee 
River. When he got near there they raised up the hood partially from his face, so that 
he could see the open river in front of him. They asked him whei:o he was. He said 
that was the Tennessee River. They then dismounted near the bank of the river and 
took the hood off of his face, and tied a band around his eyes, and two of them led 
him out in the river.' After they had carried him out some sixty or seventy-live yards, 
probably, from the bank, they ducked him several times, aud m this ducking process 
the bandage came from his eyes, and hd could see upon the bank, and he there discov- 
ered Mr. Moore and Frank Gibson, and that the two men who had hold of him were 
George Peace — ^there a new name comes in — and Pink Johnson. 

^ QMstion, Were they undisguised t 

' Amtoer. Yes, sir, they were stripped ; that is, the two in the river were stripped ; bnt 
of the two on the bank Moore had his mask off of his face, but had his disguise npan 
his person. 

By the Cuairmj^ : 

QH€8ti<m, Who beside Moore was on the bank f 

Answer, Gibson, After talking for some time, they carried him back to the bank, 
and Moore came np aud told him that he must leave the country, and asked 
him if he would agree to leave it, and what ho would do in regard to leaving 
it. After a while, he was talking to Moore, and Gibson came up and carried him 
out into the river a second time, in connection with Johnson, I think, and ducked 
him again. This last ducking was pretty severe, and he become right smartly 
exhausted in it. The first, he said, did not strangle him aoy, bnt the last, he said, 
exhausted his breath considerably. They then went back to the bank, aud Moore 
took him again, and said,^ " When we started oiit we intended to kill yon, Squire Weir, 
^but we have determined not to do it. We will save your life, but it must be on con- 
'ditions th^t you and your family will not appear against us at court.'' He told him 
he would do so ; he would make that promise. They then brought his clotlies and put 
them on him, and started in a direction which was rather easterly, I think. It was 
then, I think, gettinz about dark — quite dark — when they left that point. They carried 
him to a house which he afterward discovered was (jibson's house; carried him up 
stairs and put him in a room and sent him some supper. Moore got a chain and put it 
around his leg and chained him to the bed-post, and left him tnere and went down. 
He said the chain held him so he could not get away, and they went down the steps. 
He ate his supper and slept during the night, occasionally waking up and looking 
around to see what he could see, and two of them were in the room, he supposed to 
guard him. He staid there all night. The next morning he asked for a pencil and 
aper to write upon the subject of his family leaving, and wrote to his wife, informing 
.er that he was alive, and giving her instructions for her and his daughter to go away 
out of the country ; that it would be important for them to do so if they valued his life. 
They, said they would take it to his family. Meanwhile, he said that Gibson had ^one 
off at night, l will return a little to the narrative. Gibson, who had gone off at m^t, 
came back next morning, and seemed very much agitated. Ho says to Moore, *'llie 
people are up about this thing," and he seemed to be very much excited when he told 
him. Moore said, in a very careless kind of way, ** I don't mind them. If I had the 
Smith boys here I could whip out that sqnad." Gibson told him it was a more serious 
thing than he thought ; that it was a considerable squad of men that were lookinc for 
him, and I think he mentioued my name or the sheriffs. I am not certain about tnat. 
He said they seemed to get into a hnrry, and took him in an easterly direction. Ho 
asketl where they were going to tsike him, and Moore said they were going to take him 
to Lawrence County, to Smith's ; tliat he would be safe there. He said, " We will not 
hurt you ; we will treat you well, but simply want to hold you until after court.** The 
court was due the following Monday. This was about five days before court. Mean- 
while Gibson and Johnson left, leaving none but him and Moore and a feUow who 
seeuiH to have come to them, and Moore had stated to bin) one of their men, meaning 
men of my party, hod come to them. We afterward found it was B[iram Higgins. 

By Mr. Beck: 

ettejtton. He was one of you* squiMlf ..,Dia^^ed by _ v^^^.^ 

Answer, Yes, sir. He says that this man was along with Moore, and mdrhot seem to 



do anvtbing, but Moore told them both to follow him ; they finally both started with 
him, Moore winding abont through the woods and taking up about three miles from 
town at a house out in the barrens, where they got din'ner. Meanwhile Moore told him 
he was released, and he could go anywhere that he wanted to. 

Question. Was he then still cQsgnised f 

Answer, No, sir ; he had taken off his di8<nii8e and wrapped it up in his overcoat and 
put it on his horse. He was disguised on the bank of the river ; all except his face. 
m bad on a red disguise, a kind of overall or cloak over his person, and some kind of 
a cloak wrapping over his shoulders. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
OwsHan, On'what day was it Moore told Weir he could go anywhere he was a mind 

AHswer, Tuesday, about 10 o'clock, I think. 
By Mr. Beck: 

Quezon, How did young Higffins happen to fall in with him f 

Answer. I have investigated Higgins's case. I intended to make him an accomplice, 
bat Higgins, I found, had been drinking all the time he was with mo. He had gotten 
liqnor at the distillery. His statement was corroborated by good witnesses that he 
haid gotten drunk, and in staggering about with a man named Yarborough, who was 
ao old companion in the army, they having ^ot drunk together, they ha^ fallen into 
this place of Gibson's, which had formerly belonged to Tarboron^h's father. He says 
that about night he found himself off of his mule and down on his back, and his mule 
lying close by near the path. As he was looking up his mule, hallooing about, ndt 
knowing where he was, he made some little noise and he saw a man coming along the 
path. He started to get on his mule to go off and this man halted him and told him 
he most go with him. He recon^nized his face in the dark to be Moore's, and he saw he 
was in a pretty tight place, and concluded to say nothing about it and just stay with 
him oniil Moore told him he was released. Mr. Weir, in his account, does not say 
anything about it, except the simple fact that he saw Mr. Higgins, and that he was 
along with Mr. Moore on Tuesday, but for what purpose h^ did not know. He did not 
make complaint against Mr. Higgins, and I did not know about Mr. Higgins being 
connected with it at all until he, Higgins, told it. ' He had told it to other parties, and 
it got out in that way. I came to the conclusion that Mr. Higgins, from all the cor- 
roborating circumstances I had got, was truthful in his testimouy— that he had gotten 
drunk and fallen in with him. Wliile I hod char/jod him with beiiij; an accomplice 
and badhiia arrested, I intended to make a State witness of him, and do yet^s far as 
he knows, and released him with that intention. 

Questioit. You have given us substantially the statement of Weir as you recollect it 
aU-jQt tliu whole thing I 

Jnmoer, Yen, sir. 

jQnestion, Now if you have any views of your own you can state them. 

Answer. I think i have about stated the whole thing. I think the last transaction 
was a combination to prevent him from pursuiuj^ them any further in prosecuting 
theuL Alter the probate judge and county commissioners liad employed counsel and 
exhibited the intention of prosecuting them vigorously they became alarmed,' and Weir 
b«iiig the only witness, they formed a combination to get rid of his testimouy. We 
hare already in the Jail there now five disguised men whom we have held for prosecu- 


By the Chairman : 

(luesiion.' Captain Coleman, I will ask you to state the standing in your Qommuuity 
of these parties, Moore, Gibsan, Johnson, Bradford, and Harlan. 

Au$wer. Well, sir, they stand badly. 

Qnestian, What was their standing before tbev were implicated in the violence to 
WeirT " , 

Answer. They stood badly before. 

Question. Are they men of property t 
• Amswer. Gibson is the only man ot property among them. 

Qae^Uon. What was his business I 

Answer. Farming. 

QwsHon. What was Moore's business? 

Answer. Bistilliug. He had a distillery. I do not know whether he owned it as a 
partner or just attended %o it and rec^ved a portion of the profits. I expect he was a 

Question. Wl^at was Johnson's business f 

AnsKcr. .1 think he was a farmer. 

Qwstion. Did he own the land he oecupied f C^ r\r\n]t> 

Amwfo: I do not think he did. ^'9'^'^^^ by VjUU^ie 

iiuHwn. Was he a tenant? 


Answer. I tbink he was. I do Dot know. I think he lived on Mr. Gilbert's place, 
formerly occnpied by bis son — I have for^tten his name — I think Thomaa Gilbert. 
Question. What was Mr. Bradford's bnsiuess f 
Answer, A funner-;-a renter. I think he worked under Gibson. 
Question, What was Harlan's occapation t 
Answer, 1 could not say. I do not think it was anything. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Question, Just there, as to the distillery. What kind of a concern was it— of what 
magnitude t 
Ansufer,' Well, sir, it vras a right sharp little country distillery. 

By the Chaikman : 
Question, Was it a licensed distillery f 

Answer. Not licensed by the United States. I am prosecuting them now for viola- 
tion of that law. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Question, How much was it making per dayf 

Answer. I do not know what they would make a day. I know very little about it 
Question, Did they make it from com t 

Answer. 1 think mostly from apples ; tome com I reokon, but mostly apple-brandy. 
Question. Would they make a barrel a day f 
Answer. Tes, sir, I expect they would. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. These parties you say have been indicted for illicit distilling f 
Answer. Tes, sir ; Moore and Blair have. 

By the Cuairman : 

Question. 1 was about asking you what Blair's occupation was, but I suppose his 
occupation has been connected with this distillery t 

Anstoer, I do not know of any other occupation. 

Question, Were there any other white men besides those I have enumerated cob- 
ceroed in either of these transactions f 

Answer. Moore, Gibson, Johnson, Bradford, and Blair. Did I mention in that last 
^transaction a man named Boyce ? 

Question. I think not. 

Answer. Samuel Boyce was implicated, also George Peace. 

Question. Who was Boyce and what was his occupation T 
. Answer. I could not state. I do not know what it is. Ho is one of the hangers-on 
of Moore— a striker. 

QuestUm, Were these three colored men, of whom you have spoken, in the employ- 
ment of any of these white men f 

Answer. Tbey were in the employment, I think, of Moore and Blair. 

Question, Does the testimony show that they acted under duress, or were tbey will- 
ing participants f I refer now to the iirst whipping. 

Answer, 'Mr. Weir says they were rather under duress. Ho says they were unwill- 
ing at first, but the man Jim Kelly, through being unwilling at first, afberwanis 
seemed to have gone into it pretty willingly, and to have whipped him nretty vigor- 
ously. They have been arrested— one of them has. Tbe other two ran off immediately 

Question, Have you any reason to doubt the entire correctness of Mr. Weir's state- 
ment to you f 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, Is he a roan in good standing f 

Anamer, Well, sir, in regard to uis veracity, I think he is. Ho is a dissipated man ; 
a poor man, and a dissipated man. • Ho has been exceedingly dissipated ; but so far as 
his integrity and his truth are concerned I know nothing to his detriment. 

Question, How long has he resided in Limestone (7ounty t 

Answer, He has been i-esidin^ there since the close of the war. I do not know bow ^ 
much longer. I have known him only since the war. • 
. Question, Where did he come from when he settled in Limestone County f 

Answer. I think he came from Lauderdale there, but I think his original home was 
Ui East Tennessee. 

Questiott. He was bom and raised, then, yon understand, in>he South f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Then he was not obnoxious to the oommunily generally f 

Answer, No, sir ; I would not say that he was. 

Question. Do you think that any of these outrages are oountenanoed by any portion 
of your community T Digitized b 


Antwer, No, sir ; I never heard a man in the community, even before I became solici- 
tor, when they wonld have talked to me, I suppose, more freely, countenance them in 
the least— either of the transactions ; in fact Moore was a candidate for sheriff, and I 
think it broke down what little popularity he had, if any. 

QutsiUm. You say Moore was a candidate for sheriff? 

Answer, Yes, sir; and I know that Moore had been pretty vigorous against disguised 
men, and I thought at the time he was a good man. About a year ago he helpid the 
sheriff and helped myself put down some more disguised men, who wore threatening 
marder, and destruction, and ii^jury to the conntry. He had co-operated with me, aad 
I thought him a firm, good citizen ; but after tlfls transaction I became satisfied that he 
was not. I had been influential in getting him to run for sheriff, thinking him an 
honest man and a good citizen. He is a firm man, but demoralized by whisky and a 
chronic disposition to crime. 

QuesHott, What were Weir's politics at that time? 

Answer, Weir, I think, has voted the republican ticket all along, but I am not 

Question, Was he a soldier in the war ? 

Answer, No, sir ; ho was not a soldier. 

Question. What were the politics of Moore ? 

Answer. Well, sir, I do not know tbat he had any. 

Qiuestuni. When he was a candidate for sheriff, on which ticket did he seek the nomi- 

Anstcer, He did not seek the nomination of either party. He was an independent 
candidate. , 

Question. Yon do not know with which party he votes f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Or which party claims him ? 

Answer, I asked him if he wonld go before the democratic convention for nomination; 
he said he wonld not ; he was opp^ed to a convention. • 

By Mr. Buckley: 
^ QuesUon, About what time was this ? 

Answer, About two or three months ago. He did not seek the votes of either party. 
He wanted to be independent, and he thought he was popular with aU. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. You belong to the democratic party f 
Answer, Yes, sir; I am a ^mocrat. 

Question, From whose appoiiUment do yon derive your office as county solicitor f 
Answer. From the appointment of Judge Clark, circuit Judge. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Question* Is he a democrats 

Answer, No, sir; he is a republican. I think both our county and circuit Judges are 
classed with the republican party, although they do not say much about it. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. What are Mr. Gibson's politics? 

Answer. Well, slr^ I oould not sav. He is one of that loose kind of men who have 
Teiy little to say about politics. I do not know chat he ever took any decided stand 
erne way or the other. 

Question. What are the politics of Johnson ? 

Answer. I could not state. 

Que»Hon. Of Bradford ? 
^ Answer. I could not state. I think they were all low down men, who had very little 
to do with politics, or thought of politics, one way or«the other. 

QuesHon. Of Harlan ? 

Answer. I do not know his i>olitic8. 

Question. Do you know the politics of Blair? 

Answer. I expect Blair is a democrat, but I never heard him say how he voted. 

Question. This last man, Boyce, what were his politics ? 

Answer. I do not know his |>olitics. 

Question. Yon had no previous acquaintance with these men except Moore — ^Moore, 
and Qibeon, and Blair ? 

Answer. Bradford also I knew slightly, but just simply as a man living in the county. 

Question, Yon had not l)oen a candidate for office and soliciting votes, and so knowing 
the views of the people ? 

Answer, I had been a candidate for superintendent of education, but it was an office 
upon which parties did not divide, and I knew nothing of their political sentiment, 
lliere was no opposition on the republican side ; there was no contest about it. It was 

42 A 


not regarded as a political office. I had never been a candidate. I never received any 
snffirages for solicitor, the only office I hold. 

Question, Did the testimony show that the politicsof Weir had any connection what- 
ever with either of these ontraees ; was it mentioned as a circumstance in the ease f 

Answer, No, sir ; not at all. Mr. Weir emphatically so stated to me. I asked him 
particularly as soon as I came into the office of solicitor. I had an interview with him 
two or three days afterward. I wanted to know if anything of the kind was goin^on 
in the county from political influence. He told me explicitly that politics had notlnne 
to do with it, and he thonghf it all originated from a personal affair between him and 
William S. Blair. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Judge Minnis, who was a witness before the committee, and has spoken in • 
praise of the action of the citizens of Limestone County in connection with this case, 
When asked if he thought politics had anything to do with the whipping of Weir, re- 
plied that he thought politics had nothing to do with it further than to this extent, 
that the men who committed the outrage telt that they might take advantage of the 
prejudice existing in that county against republicans to commit the outrage upou 
Weir when they would not have felt at liberty to do it if Weir bad been deemed a 
democrat in good standing. 

Answer, It may be that these men, not being intelligent men, and not being well in- 
formed, may have miscounted the sentiment — may have misinterpreted and miscon- 
stmed the sentiment of the county. The sentiment of the county, as exhibited since, 
certainly shows that they did. They may have thought that there ^Ais snch a preja- 
diee, and they could commit such an offense with impunity, and not be prosecuted. Bat 
the result shows they were most wofully mistaken. 

Question, Mr. Weir was a Justice of the peace during the war f 

Answer, No, sir. since the war. He was made so under the State election. 

Question, Was he not made a justice of the peace Immediately after the close of the 
war by Governor Parsons f 

Answer, No ; I think about the time the officers we have now went in. 

Question, I think Judge Minnis stated that he thought Weir was made a Justice of 
tlie peace by Governor Smith, who' succeeded Governor Fatten f 

Ansvber, It may have been under Governor Smith. He was made a Justice of the 
peace, but he was not certainly under Governor Parsons, and not under Governor Pat- 
ton. I think he had become a justice of the peace under Governor Smith's adminis- 
tration. • 

By the Chairman: 

Qicesf ion.. Yon have stated in your examination that, within eighteen months past, 
several outrages have been committed upon individuals. Were they generally com- 
mitted by men in disguise, banded togetner T 

Answer, Some of them were. One murder was committed by Birdsong; that was not 
in disguise. One assault and arrest of a party was committed by eight disguised men 
about twelve or sixteen months ago. That is the first prosecution I mentioned. 

Question, Can you tell how long ago it was T 

Answer, I can be accurate. It was last September, a year ago. 

QuesHon, Go on with your statement or catalogue of offenses committed within that 
period f 

Answer. There was one man killed about two months ago. m the northwestern portion 
of o\ir county, and in a few days after that his slayer w«s killed. The first killing was 
a personal difficulty, at which I was present myself, and saw him shot 

By Mr. Beck: 
Questim, Were they disguised I 

Answer, No, sir. The last man who was killed was said to have been killed by dis 
gnised men. 

By the Chairman: 

Qu/SSiMm, You mean the slayer f 

Aiwwer, Yes. sir ; Burrus was his name. 

Quetition, Whom had he killed f 

Answer, He had killed his cousin, named Strange. 

Question. That was a private feud, I nuderstand ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, How many were concerned in the taking off of Burrus 7 

Answer, 1 think that six were said to have been concerned in it. I was not prose- 
cutor then, and I went with the coroner to investigate it, simply for my own satisCac- 

Question, How did the testimony show that these men were disguised? 

Answer, It showed that they were disguised in black costume. 


QmsUon, Wore they monnted, ox on foot f 

Amwer. They were on foot. 

QiietHoM, Were their faces disgnised f 

Antwer, Yes, sir. 

QutBHon, How ? 

Antwer. With some kind of covering npon their faces. It was not kno\in in the 
exeiiement that occurred how, bnt simply a black covering hanging over the faces. 

QuesUom. Have they ever been identified f 
Anmoer. No, sir. 

Que$Uan, What efiforts, if any, have been made to ascertain who these men were f 

Anmoer, Well, sir ; the efforts that I made the next day, and the efforts that the 
coroner made in taong testimony. I have already had some witnesses summoned 
befioe the grand jury to see what could be learned, but I have never gotten any clow 
to*it It is the best covered up transaction that I know of at all. Suspicion rested 
upon the parties who had been involved in the previous difficulty, but that was all 
tbey had to go by. 

Question, What was Birdsong murdered for T 

Antwer, Birdsong was not murdered. He murdered a man named -McEee. He was 
the murderer. McKee's body was found the next day, and in his saddle-bags he had a 
disguise. Birdsong fled. There was also arrested, the same day, a young man named 
Eight, and he confessed that he, and Birdsong, and McKee, had been together on the 
previous day, and had made an a^eementthat they were to steal some horses and some 
mules at certain places, and mentioning the places, and that they were to go in the 
night-time and steal some money from an old negro man who was supposed to have 
some money, and that they were to do this in disguist^ and these horses were to be 
stolen in disguise. I have Kight now in jail charge<l with horse-stealing. 

Question. What was the character of the disguise found upon McKee f 

Answer, I never examined that ; I do not know what it was. Wo got McKee's dis- 
guise and Birdsong. 

Question. Did you ever getKight'sf 

Answer. He did not have any dis^ise, but he said he was to just throw his blanket 
over him and put some kind of calico covering over his face, which he did not have 
with him. 

Question, You spoke of an assault and battery by eight disguised men, from twelve 
to sixteen months ago ; please state the circumstances. 

Answer. About twelve or sixteen months ago there originated a feud in the neighbor- 
hood in which my mother's place and my place were*, in the county, between two par- 
ties — ^those who were regarded, and whom I have always regarded, as the best citizens 
down in that neighborhood, and some new-comers, who were renters there. I think 
the contest and feud sprang up on account of renting of laud. There was a contf^st 
between the parties as to which should have the land. They had several lights and 
difficnlties about it on various occasions, and Anally the development that was made in 
disguise was, that eight disguised men came to a church in the neighborhood ; on their 
way to the church they arrested this party upon whom I said an assault and battery 
was committe<l. We charged an assaalt because, while they did not draw their pistols, 
they detained him as a prisoner in the house, while six of them went up and posted a 
notice on the church stating^ " We have been maltreated by certain men in this neigh- 
borhood, and we are determined that they shall not overcome us in our objects, and if 
any mischief is done in the neighborhood we will hold these parties responsible ;" men- 
tioning their names, among which was Mr. James Yarborough, a clever citizen. Pick 
MeOormick, and Albert McCormick, and Elona Hamilton ; he, the latter, was one of 
my renters, and I took a great interest in it on his account and on the general account. 
Ko injury was inflicted on these men beyond mere detention. That was all. 

Question, What was the character of the disguises worn by these eight men, so far as 
you were informed T 

Answer. My recollection is that they were striped calico, most of them ; one of them 
was a red ground with spots in it — red ground with white spots. 

Question, This was a disguise which covered the body ? 

Anstver, Yes. sir. 

Question. Wnat was the disguise which covered the head and face T 

Answer, That was a kind ot cap made out of pasteboard with a white face — white 
domestic, probably— covering the face, with holes for the eyes, nose, and mouth. 

Question. Mounted by horns? 

Answer. No, sir; I do not think they had any horns. 

Question. Were these men mounted f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Were they armed f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Did their disguise and appearance differ from the old-fashioned Ku-KIux 


Answer. Well, sir, I do not know ; I never saw the disgaises myself ; I only heard 
them described, and I do not know whether they differed at all or not from the old- 
fashioned dispraise. They certainly differed from the only KiuKlns I ever «aw. The 
disn^uises of the first Ku-Klax*I ever saw were entirely different. 

Question. When was that, Captain Coleman f 

Answer^ Let me see ; the war closed in 1865; I think it was in the fiill of 1866. 

Question. Yoa may state the circumstance. 

Answer. Well, sir, it was at a pic-nic — what was called a moon-light pic-nio — 4n a 
beech grove near Falaski. 

Question. In Tennessee f 

Ansioer. Yes, sir ; where there was a danoe. There was a good large circle of fine 
people gathered together, when these persons in mysterions garb came out of the woods 
and came upon the ground and danced to the music, and would talk to those who would 
talk with them, disguising their voices ; it Seemed to be a thing of amusement ; I never 
heard anything in connection with it as a political organization. 

Question. Not at that time f 

Answer. At that time, no, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. What was their disguise f 

Answer. Well, sir, they had very tall hats that seemed to be made of some material, 
I could not 1^11 what it was, but it was covered with spangles, with stars, and it was 
rather a pretty aud showy costume. Their covering seemed to be a kind of talma or 
cloak thrown over their bodies, and then a tunic running down to their feet nearly. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Was that the first you heard of the Kn-Elnx Klan ? 

Ansicer. It was about that time I heard of the Ku-Klux Klan ; probably I had heard 
of Ku-Klux a little before that, but that was the first I ever saw of them. 

Question. How long subsequently did that organization exist and operate in full vigor f 

Answer. Subseqneutly, I do not know. The next time I saw them was in 1€»7, 1 
think, but I am not accurate about the time. It was lci67 or 1863, but I think it was 
1867, and I saw them no more. 

Question. Where was it you saw them in 1867 f 

Answer. I saw them in Athens. 

Question. In Limestone County 1 

Answer. Ye^, sir. 

Question. How large a band f 

Ansicer. Well, sir, one baud consisted of six; I think the other band consisted of 
about seventy-five or a hundred. 

Question. Were both bands there at the same time f 

Answer. No, sir; they were there on different occasions. 

Question. You may describe the occasions of their visit to Athens. 

Answer. One visit was one ni^^ht as I came from the cars ; I saw them Just riding 
through the town. They stopped on the square aud cut up a good many curious gyra- 
tions or performances. I remember one of them took my hat off and took it some dis- 
tance ; I thought he had gotten it for good, but he brought it back to me. The other 
occasion was, I think, on the day of the presidential election when they came in. We 
had some Federal soldiers just to keep order ; they rode up and asked for the mayor of 
the town. We were apprehending some disturbance at the polls. A great many were 
in town, and we did not know but there might be some collision. One of the men in 
disguise asked the mayor (I was present) if he apprehended any disturbance during^ 
the day. He said, " No ;" he thought everything would be quiet. The lieutenant <M 
the guard also came up, and he turned to the lieutenant and the mayor and said, ^* If 
they don't keep good order, Lieutenant, just scratch on the ground and I will be with 

Questioti. This last visit was in November, 1868? 

Anstver. Yes, sir. 

Question. As the election occurred f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; that is when the small body appeared. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
Question. How many were there in the body that came in on election day f 
Answer. Six or eight. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. The large body was the year before that t 
, Answer. Yes. sir. That was the last I saw of any disguised parties ; I mean when I 
saw them in November, 1868. 

Question. Did you hear of auy disguised bands after that, except such •os^ were organ- 
ized| as you stated, for plunder T 


Anneer. No, sir ; I heard no further of them ; I had heard that they had disbanded 
before I saw the last party that I saw; that thoy disbanded some two or three mouths 
before I saw them, but I do not know that to be the fact ; I simply heard it. 

QtutHom Prom the time you first became acquainted "with the existence of the or 
ganization until November, 1868, was two and a half years nearlyj was it not ? 

An9wer, Tes, sir. 

Question. During that period of time did this organization do any mischief in Limo- 

Answer, No, sir ; none that I know of. I heard no complaint made. 

QuaHofL No outrages were pjerpetrated upon any person to your knowledge or from 
information that you have derived from others f 

Answer, No, sir. During 1867 and 1868 I was away a good deal of the time, but I 
do not know of any outrages that were laid to the account of the Ku-KIux during that 

Question, Have you any knowledge of the objects of that organization ? 

Answer, No, sir : I could not say that I have any knowledge of it myself. I have 
talked with parties that I thought were in the first organization—- that squad that I 
told you I met at the pic-nic ground — and I asked them what was the meaning of the 
word—where it came from ; if it was not from a Greek word — there had been some 
diicnssion in the papers as to what the word K!u-Klnx camo from— and they told me ; I 
asked if it was not m>m the Greek word Kv/cXoc ; they said thoy thought it was. 

Question. What is the meaning of that Greek word ? 

Answer, It means circle — KvkXoc, The reason I came to inquire was because when T 
was a student in college we had a society that we called the KvkTlo^ Society, and the 
word was so much like Xu-E^lux that it led me to investigate the origin of it. 

Question, Was that society ever known by any other name than Ku-Klux in lame- 
stone or in the a^oining counties f 

Answer. No, sir; I think not. I never have heard of its being known by ally other 

Question. Did you ever hear of an organization known as the Invisible Circle? 

Answer, No. sir. 

QuesUon, The Knights of the White CameliaT 

Answer, No, sir ; I never heard of them. 

Question, Or the White Brotherhood f 

Answer. No, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
Question. Have you ever heard of the Pale Faces f 
Answer, No, sir. 

Question, Or the Invisible Empire T 
Answer. No, sir ; I never heard of any of those names. 

By the Chatrman : 

Question, Have you heard of an organization known as the«Cbnstitntional Union 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question. You think the body of men that composed the Ku-Klux organization in 
your section of the countiy never assumed any other name, or were known by any 
other name than Ku-Klux T 

Answo", No, sir; they never assumed any other name. I will state, for I might as 
well be candid, as there is no other way to get at the truth but to state it out, the 
first I knew of the Ku-Klux organization in Limestone Couniy was that several men 
ipproached me on the subject of joining the Ku-Klux. They asked me if I would join 
them. I asked them what the object of the organization was. They stated that it 
was to uphold the civil law and put down this thing of thieving and plunder through 
the country ; and there was a good deal of thieving and rascality then going on by 
M men, and horse-stealing also, and property was exceedingly insecure. It was 
thought that the mysteiy connected with the organization would produce more terror 
to them, and that by riding at night and appearing to be a sort of miraculous persons — 
spirits and ghosts, and things of that kind— it would have a good effect. That object 
seemed ^od. Is tated to them so far as that was concerned I saw nothing objectionable 
to that, but I had always had an aversion to joining secret organizations. It was 
^frth some difficulty that I was ever gotten up to join the Masons, and I had an aver 
fiion to secret political organizations, and I feared that it might be demoralized if the 
original object was not connected with politics ; that it might become demoi'alized 
finally into it ; that men might get into it who were bad men and might deflect it from its 
original objects and proper channel ; that I being a lawyer, as I was, while the civil 
law, it U true, was weakly administered on account of the disturbed state of the 
country, yet that I had best not go into anything that might lead to an infraction of 
the dvil law by its power or strength, and I declined on that account, but told them 
that as long as they carried out this x>urpose I saw nothing wrong in it. 


Question, About what time were yoa approached with this proposition to join the 

Answer, 1 think it was in the spring of 1888or fall of 1867 ; I cannot remember it now. 

Qiieaiion, Have you heard of any case where that organization was employed for 
political purposes! 

Answer, No, sir ; I do not know of a case. 

Question. 1 mean to influence men^s voting f 

Answer, No, sir; I never have known a single case in our county. I cannot remem- 
ber now any case that I have heard of at all in any couuty. You mtmn where it was 
sought to produce a terror to influence them to vote for one party or the other ? I 
have never heard of anything of the kind. As to that party that appeared on the ds%j 
of the election, I sought to investigate and see whether they were bringing any influ- 
ence to bear in that direction, because I discountenanced that, and I determined that 
if I could find the parties who were engaged in it I would use what influence I had to 
prevent it. 

Question. They appeared in town while the voting was going onf 

Ansu^er, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did they ride near the noUs T 

Answer, They rode around the polls and the court-house — the polls were at the court- 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, Did this man who talked with the mayor have on his disguise while talk- 
ing with him f 
Answer, Yes, sir; and he talked with the lieutenant of the guard also. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Was their appearance ^eeted with favor ? 

Ansicer, No, sir ; nothmg was said to them. ^ 

Question, You heard no cheers f § 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question, Did you hear any expressions of disapprobation at their appearance T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; the citizens disapproved it. They spoke several times during the 
day that they were sorry it was done ; that it might be misconstrued. 

Question, Were any republican votes cast at that election t 

Anstcer, Yes, sir; a large number. 

Question, Do you think the full strength of the republican party was voted in your 
county that fall f 

Answer. Yes, sir; I think it was. 

Question, You have spoken something in relation to the political status of your 
county. I think I understood you to say it was democratic f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, How many votes are polled in Limestone County when the full strength 
of both sides is brought out ! '' 

Answer. Well, sir, 1 do not know the full strength, and the only criterion I hare to 
go by in the statement I made that the full strength was brought out, was what 
others said. I have no record of the votes ; but I think in the Lindsay election last 
fall, when Governor Lindsay was elected, there were i>olled from sixteen to eighteen 
hundred votes. I will not pretend to be accurate. 

Question, Do you mean for him ? 

Answer, No, sir ; the whole vote cast. 

Question, You speak df the entire county ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. I would say fully eigliteen hundred votes; it may be more. 

Question. Of that number what proportion was democratic and what proportion 

Answer. I think there was a difference of about three hundred votes. 

Question, About what is the number of white republican voters in your county ? 

Answer, Well, sir, it is mere guess-work ; but I would not think it was exceeding 
fifW, or, may be, one hundred. 

Question. Are they southern or northern men t 

Answer, I think they are all southern men, with a few exceptions. We have some 
northern democrats and some southern republicans. They are pretty well mixed. I do 
not think there is much difference between the two as far as that is concerned. 

Question. Is there any intolerance on account of political opinion expressed in Lime- 
stone County f 

Answer, No, sir ; I think that Mr. John Lamb is the only republican — I mean open 
and well-known republican — who takes any part in politics, and he is personally tsk 
very popular man — well known by everybody as a republican and a strong party man. 

Question. By what majority was he elected ? C^OOolp 

Answer. He is not an office-holder, except he holds the post-officer' o 


QwsUorL Are any repablicans elected to office in Limestone County f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; Mr. Lentz is the sheriff. 

Quegtiim. When was he elected f 

Amwer, He was elected in the last election. I have forgotten the year. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
QuesUon. In February, 1868 f 
Aiuwer, Yea, sir. 

By Mr. Beck : 
QHation, When the democrats abstained from voting f 
Answer. Yes, sir ; that was the time he was elected. 

By the Chairbcan : 

Questum, Has there been since February, 1868, any more than one. election when yon 
had an opportunity of ascertaining the strength of both parties f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; in the election for governor. 

Qm^n, That was last fall ? 

Answer. And at the presidential election. 

QuesHon. How did the vote of Limestone County stand for President t 

Answer, I think there was a diiference of probably seven or eight hundred votes in 
£iTor of the democrats. 

Question, Did the negroes vote at the presidential election generally ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Are there any negroes in your county who vote the democratic ticket f 

Answer, O, yes, sir. 

Question, About what proportion of them f 

Answer, Well, sir, I have no means of knowing except those I know about the towns. 
I think full as many vote the democratic as the other ticket of those about town . 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, Did yon ever hear that a colored man was interfered with for voting the 
dumocratic ticket f 
Answer, No, sir. 

Question, They vote freely as they choose 7 
Answer, Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, Have you any reason to suppose that colored people, in voting the demo- 
cratic ticket, have been nnder duress of^any kind f 

Answer, No, sir ; not in our county. I have seen some publications in newspapers 
aboat that, bat not to my knowledge. I have never seen any interfered with. They 
laughed at them sometimes, but no violence was used or effort made to prevent them. 
Bat I think our town is a most conservative town and opposed to all disorder, and 
discouDtenances anything of that kind. I do not think eitner side have tried it there. 

QuaHon, Is there any prejudice entertained there against white men who have set- 
tled in your county, coming from the Northern States since the war f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question, Are they socially well treated f 

Answer. They are socially well treated. I know of two gentlemen to whose houses 
I went about three weeks ago — ^Mr. Bartlett and Mr. Zei tier— and from my conversa- 
tion, I inferred that they were on perfect social terms with every gentleman in the 

Question, How did they vote f 

Answer, I do not know, but I am rather inclined to think they vote the democratic 
ticket ; Zeitler does. 

Question, Do you know any northern men in your community who vote the republi- 
Wk ticket ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; Mr. Lamb does. 

Question, Is he outspoken in his sentiments f 

Answer. O, yes, sir. 

Qnestion, Is he well relished by the southern people f 

Answer, Well, sir, he mingles with other young men there as a companion. He is 
popular. I will say that Lamb is popular among our people. He is regarded as a 
caodid, straightforward, and honest man. 

Question, What is his business f 

Answer, He keeps the post-office, and a little store and confectionery in connection 
with it, and a bilfiard saloon connected with it, running back. He is thrifty and indus* 
trioQS, intelligent and popular. I have never known any iuter&rence with him,TO|' 
aoy combination against him. ^rS. 

Question, You HiK)ke of di3gnise<l bands of men whose objects were horse-stealing 
and stealing generally, and whose purpose was also— 


Answer. To carry out any private revenge they might have. 

Question, Abont how many such bands have you known, Mr. Coleman ? 

Answer. Well, sir, the baud of which I have spoken as having existed abont thir- 
teen or fourteen months ago, against whom I commenced a prosecution, called them- 
selves Men of Justice. That was what they signed themselves to the paper that they 
posted up. That and Moore's band were all that I knew, and that was confined to one 
neighborhood. I will state that when I got to where Moore carried on these last per- 
formances of his, there seemed to bo no sympathy in the neighborhood with it ; and 
the men whom he had brought in by this transaction were from what is called the ** Dark 
Corner." The two Smiths, and Boyce, and Peace, lived in the barrens, an entirely sep- 
arate neighborhood from that in which Moore lived, and where the outrage on Mr. 
Weir was committed. 

Question. Were you acquainted with the condition of affairs generally tbroa^chout 
the State in December, 1868, as to peace, order, and quiet f 

Ansuwr. No, sir ; I could not say that I was thix>usliout the State. 

Question. To what portions of the State did your Knowledge or information extend t 

Answer. It extended over Limestone, Lawrence, Lauderdale, Fmnklin, Morgan, and 
Madison ; just up and down this valley I knew pretty much what was going on, 
thoug[h at the time, I will say, I was leading a very private life. I was engaged in 
teaching, and my attention was not directed much to the affairs of the country. Mine 
was a retired life, and I do not ihink that my statements may be relied upon aA being 
very full. 

Question. You have of course heard of an act approved December 26, 1868, passed by 
the legislature of Alabama, entitled *'An act for the suppression of secret organizations 
of men disguising themselves for the purpose of committing crimes and outrages." 
You are familiar with the law, are you f 

Anstcer, Yes, sir. 

Question. I will ask you to read carefully the preamble to that law, and after you 
have read it I desire to ask you whether the recitals in the pteamble were true, so far 
as your knowledge and information extended f [The witness perases the preamble to 
the act above named, which preamble is set />ut in full in the testimony of John A. 

Ansv)er, I will state that at the time this act was passed, I did not know of any vio- 
lence used by disguised men at all. I coulcl/see some accounts in nerwspapers at times, 
but I knew of no cases of violence in this part of the country. 

Question. Had such a state of things as is recited in that preamble existed previous 
to that time ? 

Anstcer. No, sir ; not within my knowledge. 

Question. From your information, derived from the public press and conversation 
with public men froja different parts of the State, do you believe that was the fact f 

Answer. Not in our State. I heard that it existed in Tennessee ; but, up to the pas- 
sage of this act, I had not heard of any violence used by disguised men in our State 
at all. 

Question. You say that this Ku-Klnx organization disbanded about the time of the 
passage of this actf 

Answer. Yes. sir ; about two or three months before it — that is, the organization in 
our county. Now, whether it was connected with any other organization or not I do 
not know. I would qualify that by saying the organization in our county, because I 
did not know of the organization in any other part of the State. 

Question. Have you any reason to doubt the correctness of that preamble as to a 
great portion of Alabama T 

Answer. I thought at the time— but I was not giving much attention to public affairs 
— that if this preamble was true, it must have been based upon information received 
from other parts of the State than our own, of which I knew nothing ; and I thought 
at the time it was passed that it recited evils, the existence of which I did not know ; 
bnt it was not long after its passage that I discoveretl that these disguised men com- 
mitted this first outrage which I told you I knew of twelve or thirteen mouths ago. Then I 
became convinced that the law was a good law ; but, while it may ffot have applied to 
anything that came within my knowledge in its passage, yet it turned out to be an 
excellent law toward breaking up tliese bands of disguisad men, and I invoked, and 
have ever since invoked, it and regarded it as a good law on the statute-book. 1 have 
written to our representative about it. I wrote to, and had a personal interview with, 
Colonel Lowe on this subject, urgmg him by all means to preserve, at least, section two 
upon the statute-book; and I nrgeil the governor, also, if any bill was passed in the 
legislature abrogating it, to veto it. I wrote him a long letter, urging him to veto any 
bill that might pass the legislature, at least, for the abrogation of this section. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. Was not that law very bitterly assailed when it was passed throughout the 
State generally f ^ 



An9wer. WeU, sir, I do not think it was approved at the time it passed. I did not 
approve it myself at the time, becaase I know of no outrages then by the old Kn-Klux. 

Question* Was not tibe newspaper press exceedingly denunciatory of that law when 

Answer. I do not remember about the press ; I pay very little attention to newspa- 
pers ; I hardly ever read them ; I did not read newspapers much at that time. Now, 
in my county, they had only known of this organization in the connection in which I 
spoke of, via, as not having committed any violence, and the expression generally was 
taey thought it had a salutary effect on criminals. 

QuesUon. Do you not think the recitals in the preamble applicable to Qreen, Fayette, 
Pickens, Choctaw, and portions of St. Clair, and some other counties in this State at 

Answer. I did not know what was going on there at that time ; I had no knowledge 
of any outrages there. Yon know there is very little intercourse between North and 
South Alabama ; and therefore you see many accounts in the newspapers of things of 
which you did not otherwise get information ; but, as I said, I led a retired life at that 

By the Chairman : 

Qnes^n. So that you are not prepared to say whether that state of things existed or 
not in 1868? 

Anewer. No, sir; I am not. So far as our own county was concerned at the time. I 
had not known of any outrajg;es being committed at all ; but I am very ^lad tp invoke 
tluU law now. I do it willingly, i volunteered in the invocation of it, as I stated, 
thirteen months aga I think it is a better law than the congressional law on that 
subject. It was drawn by Judge Peters, I have understood — a good lawyer. 

By Mr. Buckusy : 
Question. Have you ever heard of any convictions of parties under that law in this 
State! N 

Answer. No. sir ; I have not heard of any convictions ; but I have heard of no 
acquittals either. 

Question. Mr. Coleman, knowing Mr. Weir as you do, and the circumstances attend- 
ing the treatment he reoeived, do yon think, from all the information you have derived 
&om various sources, that he was guilty of the accusations brought against him in the 
first instance f 

Answer. Well, sir, I have talked with Mr. Weir fully about it. I think he had done 
as he stated, viz : I think he had spoken to one of these boys about Mr. Blair being 
bad pay. 
QuesUon. Do you think he advised the stealing of the mules f 
Ansveer, I do not think he did. * 

Question. You think his advice went no further than to tell the colored men to leave 
if they could not get their pay f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I would think that of him ; and I never knew Mr. Weir to be 
engaged in any thieving or any encouragement of it himself. 
Question. Mr. Weir was a Union man, was he not ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. I do not know myself; he told me he was a Union man during the 
QuesUon. You had a class of old Union men in Alabama during the war. 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was he one of that number T 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

QuesUon. Was he opposed to the war f 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. You tliink he is now acting with the republican part? T 
Answer. Yes, sir; I expect he is. I have never talked with him on the subject of 
pohUcs at all, but it is my imj^ession that ho is acting with the republican party. 

Question. Did the disguise worn by the band of men who came into Athens on the 
day of the election look as if it were simply improvised for that occa^iion and tempo- 
racy, or had any of the disguises been used on tbrmer occasions f 

Answer. WelL sir, th^y looked pretty new. They did not look like they had been 
used, as £ELr as I could tell. I only saw the parties on horseback. They were certainly 
Bet like any I had ever seen before. They were, I think, mostly red. 
Question. The^ were not uniform, I suppose f 
Answer. No, sir. 

QuesUon. They have different bands ; this was a secret organization you were asked 
Answer, Yes, sir. 
Question. Do you know anything about the oath of secrecy or onrai^atipnuof the 


Answer, No, sir ; except that they told me it was secret. I know uotliin;; of the 
nature of it. 

Question, You did not know whether they had pass-wprds or grips or signs of reoog- 
nition, or what they were f 

Answer, No, sir ; not of my own knowledge. 

Question, You spoke, in your narration, of the Smith boys ; who were they T 

Answer, The Smith boys were followers of Moore. That is the only way I know of 
to designate them. I have seen them with him when in town. They seemed to be his 
strikers, if you understand that word. 

Question, Were there several of them t 

Answer, Yes, sir: two or three of them. 

Qu/es1xofn. Men or what kind of character ? 

Answer, Men of loose and bad character, I think. 

QjaesUon, You are the present superintendent of education in Limestone County f 

Answer, No, sir ; I was not elected ; I was defeated. 

Question, You are acquainted with the educational interests of that county? 

Answer, Yes, sir j to some extent I may say I was. 

Question, Have you ever heard of any schools being disturbed or school-houses being 
burned f 

Answer, No, sir. We have a most excellent colored school in Athens, kept up ever 
since the war by a female teacher. 

Question You spoke, during your examination, of the weakness of the civil law at 
the time this organization was formed f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did you speak of that weakness as growing oat of the disturbed condition 
of the country after the wart 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, You did not refer to an inefficiency of the officers of the law particularly, 
did youf 

Answer, Well, sir, I have made no reference to any inefficiency of the officers. 

Question, Your citizens are more outspoken to-day about secret organizations than 
they were in 1868 1 « 

Answer, Well, in 1867 and 1868 there was not much said about the Eu-Klux. There 
were then no outrages committed in our county, and very little said about them. They 
did not excite feeling one way or the other. 

Question, Have you not heard of disguised bands of men taking out colored persons 
and whipping them at night, other than those you ha^e mentioned f 

Answer, I was going to mention Just now that there was a case I had forgotten and 
omitted in my narration, in the ferreting out of which I am at present engaged, but if 
this is to be published in the newspapers I would rather not state it, because I am 
afraid the parties may get hold of it. That is a case I am looking into at this time. It 
was the case of a black man named Sam Scales. So far as my investigation has gone, 
he seems to have had a difficulty with a man named Charles Hardy, an old man, and 
had frightened Hardy very much, and, I think, had struck him and beat him. 

By Mr. Buck : 

Question, Is Hardy a white or black man f 

Answer, He is a white man, and I think said Scales (colored) had at some time 
drawn a pistol on him. Hardy is supposed to liave been implicated in an assanlt 
which was made on him afterward b^ tive or six disguised men, which resulted in tlra 
death of Scales. He wounded one of the parties very badly, but was finally killed. 

Question, Was a colored man killed on your plantation by men in disguise f 

Answer, There was a colored man killed on our place, but there was no evidence of 
the man that killed him wearing a disguise. A colored woman stated that she thought 
his voice was disguised when he called him out to the gate, but she spoke nothing of 
the disguise being worn — in fact, that is my recollection of the testimony. I prose- 
cuted that case. « 

Question, How many men have been put in Jail for committing outrages in disguise 
within the last two years T 

Answer, Let me count them. There are four whose names I can now call who bad 
been put in before Moore was— the two Wisdoms, a man by the name of Ruff Ray, and 
a man by the name of Defour, and there may have been another one. There were two 
others that gave bond — Tom Miller and one named Goode. They are out on baiL 

Question. How many men do you think have been killed in that county in the last 
two years f 

Answer, I could count them up. There is McKee, the horse-thief; Burrus; Sam 
Scales ; and the killing of the negro man, Jake Allen, on our place, was a little over 
two years ago. I think it was two years ago last spring. I do not know exactly, but 
I would say six at least— may be eight. Some one told me eight, but I have never 
counted up more than six who have been killed ; but all within a short space of time. 
Last year I do not think more than two were killed. ^ 


By the Chaibman: 

QmHo^. When waa Scales killed f 

Answer, Last spring a year ago. While we have had crime, the ooontyi I think, has 
done its duty pretty vigoroosly in the way of prosecuting since I have heen in office, 
and I have not found any reluctance— in fact, there was a willingness. Men volun- 
teered to go into the posses. They were active and vigilant in the posses after Moore. 
I never saw a guard in the army more vigorous and vigilant. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Quettion. Your people have heen aroused hy the more dangerous attitude recently 
assamed by these men in disguise f 
Answer, xes, sir. 

By theCHAiniCAN: 

QnesHon. Were many of your colored people in the army during the war T 

Antveer, Yes, sir ; a fi^ood many of them. 

Question. Did they bring their arms home with them T 

Answer, Yes, sir : I believe, as a general thing, they brought their army guns. 

Qvef^um. What do you know of their guns having been taken away from them T 

Answer, I do not know of any guns being taken away except by this first disguised 
party I assisted in prosecutiug. That occurred thirteen mouths ago. 

Questitm, How many negroes did they visit t 

Afswer, I had made out cases and charges against them for three negroes. That 
was one of my charges, that they assaulted, though in reality they did not use any 
force, but I charged assault, and I think I can make it out as au assault to take away 
their guns. . 

QuMtion, Did the evidence snow that these colored people were visited in the night- 
time by this party to take away their guns f 

Answer, No, sir, it was the day-time. 

(Imes&on, On what pretext were they required to give up their guns? 

Answer, These colored people in their testimony said these men just told them they 
must give up their guns. 

[The proceedings of the meeting referred to in the testimony of the foregoing witness, 
Dimiel Uoleman, mge 648, and the resolutions passed at said meeting, are as follows :] 

[From the Athens (Alabama) Post] 

At a htfge and earnest meeting of the citizens of Limestone County, Alabama, held 
hi the court-house, in the town of Athens, on the 25th day of September, 1871, in pur- 
suance to a call heretofore made, to protest against the outrages that have been com- 
mitted, and the lawlessness and crime which exist, the following proceedings were had, 
to wit: 

On motion of Colonel T. J. McClellan, M%jor J. N. Malone was elected chairman, and 
after a few able remarks, stating the object of the meeting, and condemning lawless- 
ness and crime, took the chair. 

On motion of Captain Daniel Coleman, C. M. Hayes was appointed secretary. 

On motion of Colonel L. R. Davis, the following preamble and resolutions were 
introduced, and after strong and eloquent speeches for their adoption were made by ^ 
Hon. Luke Pryor, J. W. Carter, esq., James E. Nnnn, esq.. Captain Daniel Coleman 
Judge W. H. Walker, and Colonel T. J. McClellan, were unanimously adopted, with,a 
stroDg hearty vote that carried oonvictiou with it that the meotiug was in earnest : 

Whereas crime and the ruthless violation of law have increased to sach an alarm- 
ing extent in the county ; therefore, we, the people of Limestone County, have met 
together in solemn convention, to devise ways and means for the suppression of law- 
leimess and crime, to express our indignation at the recent outrages in the couuty, and 
to unite our efforts for the maintenance of the supremacy of the law ; therefore, resolved : 

1st. That we are in favor of "law and order;" and we pledge ourselves that we will 
obey and encourage obedience to all laws, State and national, to which we ds citizens 
may be subject. 

vl. That great credit is due, and wo hereby give our thanks, to the officers of the 
Uw, and to the people assisting them as posses, for their recent energetic action in 
SQecting, and in attempting to arrest, the violators of the law ; and we promise to 
snstain them iu all their efforts in the future to have the law enforced. 

3d. That we cordially indorse and approve the action of the commissioners' court in 
annoying additional counsel to asssist the county solicitor, and we give thorn carte 
W«acfc«to do the same in the future whenever their Judgment may so dictate. 

4th, That we approve of the recent action of the couuty solicitor, and we stantf^y 
nhu and uphold him in the discharge of his duties. 

&th. That wo are in dead earnest, and we mean what we say, when we declare that 


TTC intend by every means known to the law, "let it fall on whom it may," to put 
down the lawnessncss that now cnrses and blights the county. 

6th. That, to this end, we will form in onr respective beats committees of law and 
order — a sort of special police — whoso duty it shall be to ferret out and bring to pan* 
isbment, " under the law," oil violators of the law. 

That we authorize and empower the commissioners' court to uso any means Dcces- 
sary to put down the crime ot the county, and to that end to make such appropriatioua 
as are essential to that purpose. And it is the sense of the meeting that the solicitor, 
in view of the fact thai he gets scarcely anything, should bo allowed s uch compeiisa-| 
tion as the court shall determine is nroper. 

On motion of Captain Coleman, the secretary was directed to request the Limestone 
News and Athens Post to publish the proceedings, after which the meeting a<yoamed 
nine die* 

J. N. MALONE, Pregtaent. 

C. M. Hayes, Secretary. 

HuNTSViLLE, Alabama, October 9, 1871. 

WILEY STRONG (colored) sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question. Where do you live T 

Answer, Ou Joseph H. Miller's quarter ; a mile above New Market. * 

Questioru How long have you lived there t 

Answer. Going on two years. 

Question. Have you a family ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. State what you know about men visiting you in disguise ; when it was and 
what outrages, if any, they committed upon your person. 

Ansicer. Well, in the first place, men came to my house disguised. When they caxue 
they calleil for me, but I knowed not the men. I didn't know tliAn and they didn't 
know me, but me and the gentleman that lived on the place had had^ fuss, and be 
threatened mo with the Ku-IClux, and when they came they wen^o his house and 
asked him where was me, and he told them and they came there, buAt happened I was 
not iu when they came, and they went there on my wife — she was in there by herself — 
and struck her to make her tell where I was ; but she was asleep and didn't know 
where I was. I had got up and went out at the time that they went in. Ho drawed 
a piece of iron on my wife, and I went iu then. He was trying to make my wife copie 
out of the house — both of them were— and I went in with my gun and knocked one of 
them down, but which one I couldn't tell, and I struck the other, and ordered them out 
of the house ; and I went out of the house, and they came out, and one of them before 
he got out cocked his pistol and shot me standing outside of the door, and then they 
ran off. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. Did the ball hit you T 

Anstca\ Yes, sir : the ball is iu this arm— my left arm ; there is the hole in the fbc«- 
arm, [exhibiting the arm, which showed a scar.] 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Was this in the night-time T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How late was it T 

Answer. I reckon it was a little after midnight. 

Question. What time iu the night was this f 

Answer. It was just before Christmas ; three weeks on Saturday night. 

Question. Before last Christmas f 

Answer^ Yes, sir ; last gone Christmas. 

Question, Were the men disguised f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; they were disguised. 

Question. Describe th^ disguise. 

Answer. One had a paper liat on, painted red, and it looked like there were square 
stars tacked about on it : they appeared to be crossed upon it. The paper was painted 
red, stuff like fjasteboara. The other hod on a hat, and a white han(lkerchief tied over 
it, and something white that went down about his feet. Both of them were dreasod 
pretty much that way. 

Question. Did they come on horseback T 

Answer. They did ; they hitched their horses out. ^ GoOgle 

Question. Were the horses disguised T "^ ' o 

.Amwer, Yes, sir. 



QueiHon. With what kind of a disguise T 

AMmcer. The horses had on fittings over the heads, mighty nice, and the ears were 
red, and a kind of speckled new ciuico covered all of one horse, and the other had a 
kind of tent-cloth covering him. 

Question, Do you know who these men were ? 

Anmeer^ I didn't know them; and don't know anymore than what I heard after- 

Question. Have they been taken up for it T 

AMwer, One of them has. 

Quettion. What has been done with him t 

Amtwer, He is in jail here. I haven't seen him. They say they have got Mr. Tickers. 

Question. Was he onef 

Au8wer. He was one. We fetched his horse here to Huntsville. 

QwBiUou. Did you make complaint of this outrage upon you ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. I came to Huntsville some time back about it. 

Question, Whom did you enter your complaint with T 

Answer, Down here to Mr. Wager's office ; and then I went to Mr. William Weedon. 

Question, How long were you laid up with your wounds T 

Answer, About two months. I haven't got over it good yet. 

Question, What did they say they were doin^ this to yon for T 

Answer. These gentlemen came first to my wife, so he said, to know where I was, and 
lowed to her that she sassed white people, and he said he was going to kill her for it ; 
and if she didn't tcU where I was, ne would kill her, and he did strike her over the 
bead with his pistol, and at that time 1 run in the house where they were, and struck 
one of them down. I think it was Mr. Yickers. He was the smallest man. The tallest 
one I loiocked down ; but to say I know them I cannot say it. I didn't know them 
only by the horses. ^ 

Question. Do you know any other ipjuries committed upon colored people up ia your 
neighborhood f 

Answer, I don't know ; but I heard, maybe one or two months ago, that one got shot 
and two or three got whipped since that. It was, maybe, one, or two, or three months 

Question, What was the name of the one shot! 

Answer, The colored nian shot was named Payton. 

Question, Was be shot by men in disguise 1 

Ajuwer, Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
Question. Who were whipped f 

Answer. One was named Hal Johnson that was wh%)ped, and another named Wash- 
ington Strong. 

By the Chairman' : ^ 

Question, Were all these crimes committed in Madison County, Alabama T 

Answer, Yes, sir ; that wos about three miles above me. 

Question, How far from HnntsvUlo f 

Answer, I reckon it is some twenty-four miles from Huntsville. 

QmesUon, Did you know what the colored man was killed for T 

Answer. No, sir ; I couldn't say to save my life. I didn't know he was dead until 
next morning. They had killed him before they came to my house. The way I came 
to find it out, his brother-in-law was with him, and he got out imder the floor, and came 
over and told me he expected they would come over there. 

Question. Was that man killed 'the same nishtf 

Answer, Yes, sir; they came on him and killed him on the road between my house 
sod his. 

Question. The same men that visited you T 

Answar, The same two men. 

Question, Now, as to the two colored men that were whipped, did you understand 
whether the men who whipped them were disguised or not f 

Answer, Yes, sir; I understood they were disguised. 

Ques^on, How many were concerned in whipping them f 

Answer, This colored man said there were five of them. 

QmesHon, Hare any of these five men ever been punished for the whipping T 

Answer, No, sir ; I never heard of any one of them having been taken up at all. 

QwesHon, Is it known who they were T 

Jbuwer. Not as I know of. I heard the colored men say they knew who they were, 
but they never told me who they were. 

By Mr. Bkck : ^ ^^^^ ^ GoOqIc 

Question, What was the name of the man that was killed f '^'^'^^ ^ o 

Ansteer, Henry Clunn. 


By the Chahiman : 

Question. Did I ask you what they were whipped for T 

Ansicer, No, sir. 

Question. Do you know t 

Answer. No, sir ; I could not say what they were whipped for. I understood what 
they say they were whipped for, but I couldn^t say that 1 know it. 

Question. What did they say t 

Answer. There was a white gentleman going to move away, and they went up there 
and fix)licked. He asked them up and they picked the banjo, and so on there ; and that 
was what they were whipped for. 

Question. Were they whipped severely? 

Answer. They said they whipped Hal Johnson right smart. 

By Mr. Beck : • 

Question. Who were you living with at the time you were shot f 

Answer. On Mr. Miller's plantation. 

Question, What is his full name f 

Answer. Joseph H. Miller. 

Question. How long had you lived there f 

Answer. Going on three years now. 

Qttestion. Who did you have the difficulty with a short time before T 

Answer. Mr. Caldwell, 

Question. Was he one of the two men whom you thought were there that night t 

Answer. No, sir ; Mr. Caldwell was not disguised that night, but they came to his 
house and called for him. They wanted to see his head, and where the negroes had 
beat up. 

Question. That was the night they came to your house ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; the same night. 

Question. Was Mr. Caldwell confined from that injury when they called him out t 

Answer. No, sir. • 

Question. What was that trouble between you and Mr. Caldwell f 

Answer. I had some shoats, and I open^ a pasture, and ho had a few potatoes inside 
of it, and my shoats got in there, and his son put his dogs on my shoats. I went down 
and told him not to kill my shoats, and Mr. Caldwell came running with his knife out 
and took two rocks, and told me to hush up, and I told him I woiudn't bush ; that he 
had stock, and he wouldn't allow me to treat his stock so, and that I was tr3ring to raise 
my stock, and then he jumped on mo to raise me, I suppose, and we had afight, and 
ho told me then 1 might look out forthoKu-Klux. 

Question. In that fight, did you fight with fists or knives T 

Anstccj'. I fought fists, and asked nim to put Uis knife in his pocket, and we would 
take it fist and skull, aud ho put it up, aud I knocked him down once and then he run 
at me with a knife, and I picked up a rock^ and hit him in the head with a r^^v. 

Question. Did you knock him down f 

Answer. No, sir. ' • 

Question. Did ho still come at you with his knife T 

An8U}er. Yes. sir. 

Question. What did ypu do f 

Answer, 1 hit him again with a rock. 

Question. Where did you hit him f 

Anstcer. I hit him on the head. 

Question. Did you knock him down T 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. What followed ? 

Answer. His son went to the house and got the gun and drawed it on me, but it 
didn't shoot. I went to Mr. Davis about his drawing the gun on me, but he didn't do 
anything with him about it. 

Question. Did you cut his bead f 
Answer. I can't i 

I't say ; he didn't bleed. I can't say that. He didn't bleed. 

Question. That was about a month before f 

Answer. Yes, sir. It would have been a month Sunday morning, and the En-Klux 
didn't come at that time. It would have been a month exactly. « 

Qtiestion. After that fight had you any further fuss with Mr. Caldwell T 

Anstcer. No, sir; not after that fight. 

Question, Your hogs wero in his potato-field f 

Answer. No, sir; in my field. He had a little patch of potatoes in the comer, and I 
had gathered the com out, and turned the pigs in there, and went to his son and told 
him not to kill them. > 

Ques^n. You turned your pigs in the field where his potatoes were f | 

Answer. Yes, sir. OOQlC 

Question. Was he hunting them out t ^ 


Answer, No, sir; bis son was dogging them out of the potato field, and I bad gath- 
ered tbe com off the field. 

QwsHon, Bat he bad not gathered the potatoea off the field ? 

Antwer, No, sir. 

OuesUoH, And joa bad tnmed your hogs in the field after your com was gathered and 
berore his potatoes were gathered T 

Antwer. His potatoes were not gathered. 

Qne$Uan. Were your hogs eating his potatoes t 

Answer. No, sir. 

QuesHon. What prevented them t 

Answer. Notbins prevented them. 

Qwe$U»n. Thej did not like potatoes T 

Answer. No, sir ; they did not eat them. They hadn't done anything to them. 

Question. They conld have done it T 

Answer. Tes, sir. 

QnesUmi. Hogs will eat potatoes in this country f 

Answer. Yes, sir; thevlike them if they can get them. 

(Question. They could have got them if they wanted themt 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qneistion. Yon ore living at Mr. Joseph H. Miller's placet 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Twenty-four miles off f 

AMswer. No, sir; twenty-one. 

QuesHmu Where is Mr. Miller's post-office f 

Answer. New Maiket. • 

Qjustion. What had Henry Clunn to do with this fight ; anything ? 

Answer. No, sir ; he did not have anything to do with it. 

Question. He was killed the same night t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. What information have you that these men killed him f 
• Answer. I can't say. 

Question. Who told you they bad killed them f 

Answer. His son told that they killed him, and his wife, too. 

Question. That these two men kiUed him ? 

Answer. His son followed them up that night from the bouse where they took him. 
He was a little bit of a boy, too, and ho laid out all that night after his pappy was 
killed, and then came on to my house. 

Question. Did he follow the same men f 

Answer. The boy followed them till they killed bis pappy. 

Question. He didn't follow them to your house T 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. You do not know whether they were the same men t 

Answer. No, sir ; only by what they said. , 

Question. By what the boy said? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How old a boy T 

Answer. I don't know ; I reckon about ten years old. 

Question. Henry Clunn was killed by somebody f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did you see him after he was dead T 

Answer. No, sir ; I didn't see him at all. 

Question. When they came to your house and asked for you, you had slipped out f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I was out. 

Question. Who had come to your house and told yon they were coming T 

Answer. Henry Clunn's brouier-iij-law. He didn't know whether they were coming 
to my house or not. 

Question. Was he at Henry Clunn's when they came there T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did be see them take him ? 

Answer. No, sir ; but he was in the bouse, and they beat him so much he got out of 
the house. This colored man didn't get out of the house at all. They beat Henry so 
mneb, and when he did get out be got under the floor, under the bed. They were beat- 
ing Henry, and didn't see him. They called to this man that got away &r bis pistol, 
and got it. 

Question. And that man came to your bouse f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Had they no pistols of their own at Clunn's bouse T 

Answer. Yes, sir; for they commenced beating on Henry with pistols. (^^^r^T/> 
Qnestion. When they came to your house, what did they say to youf / vjOOgLC 


Answer, They didn't say nothing to me, becaaBe I was not in the hoosa They were 
talking to my wife, though. 

Q^e8tum, What were they saying to her f 
Answer, They asked her where was me f 

Question. What else did they say t 

Answer, They told her that they wanted that God damned Wiley Strong, and that 
she had to tell where I was. She said she didn't know where I was. They told her to 
come out of the house ; she said she wouldn't ; they said, '* Come out, or we wiU bncn the 
house down on you f she sai<^ " Ton will have to bum it down, for I will not come 

Question, Then you went in f 

Anstoer, No, sir ; I didn't gp in then. They snatohed her oat of bed and started to 
strike her, and then I went in. 

Question, And ^ou found two men in the house f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, And you struck the biggest T 

Answer, I struck both of them. 

Question. You knocked the biggest one downt 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Then you knocked the little one down t 

Answer. No, sir ; I struck him, but he didn't falL 

Question. Which one shot you f 

Ansicer, The big one. 

Question, Heh»lgotup? 

Answer. Yes, sir. • 

Question, How often were you shott 

Answer, I was shot once. I was shot at three times. 

Question, Where were you shot f 

Answer, In this left arm. 

Question, With a pistol T 

Anstcer, Yes^ sir. Here is the place, [showing the scar.J 

Qu>estion, Alter they shot you what did they do ? 

Answer, He broke and run out of the house after he shot. 

Question, Did the same man shoot three times? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, What did the little one do T 

An^er, He never shot nary time. 

Question, What did they do then t 

Answer. They made to the horses then. 

Question^ Then you followed them T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. That same night f 

Answer. Yes, sit. 

Question, Where to f 

Answer, Down to the horses ; down to the spring below the house ; I reckon two hun- 
dred yards from the house. 

Quistion, You knew the horses t 

Answer, 1 knew the horses. 

Question, Both of the horses f 

Answer, No, sir; I knew Mr. Vickers's horse. 

Question, What is his first name f 

Ansicer, I believed they called him J. M. Tickers. 

Qtiestian, Did you come to town to get a warrant out for himt 

Answer, No, sir. Ho carried the horses to New Market and gare them up to ICr. 

Question, Who did T 

Ansu^er, My brother-in-law carried them. 

Question. They did not get the horses that night t 

Answer, No, sir : the men didn't get the horses no more ; we got them. 

Question, They left their horses? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, And you carried them to New Market? 

Anewer, Yes, sir. 

Question, And one of these horses was Jim Vickers's horse 7 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

QuesHon. And then yon came to town and got the warrant for him ? 

Answer, No, sir. Wo fotch the horses on to HuntsvUle. We couldn't get no warrant 
for him. 

Question, How did be get into Jail ? r^ , ^^ (^onal^ 

Answer, He hasn't been long caught ; maybe a month oi to. ^ "^^^d ^^ 


QmHoH, He is in jail now f 

Answer. Tes, sir. 

Question. For that assault on you T 

Answer. Tes, sir ; I reckon it was. 

Question. Did you know anything about who the other man was f 

Answer. Hill, so I was told. 

Question. Where is het 

Auewer. They never caught him. 

Question. Did ho leaye the country f 

Answer. I don't know. I noTer saw him or heard of him. 

Question. Did Mr. Weedan try to take out some paper or warrant 'for their arrest t 

AMswer. No, sir ; he didn't do nothing. 

Question. What did he do? 

Answer. He said it was no use. 

QuesUon. Did ^on tell him yon knew either of the men t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Which oneT 

Answer. I told him I knew Mr. Tickers. 

Question. Was he the biggest or smallest one f 

Answer. The smallest one. 

QuesHon. Did you see bis face that night f 

Answer. No, sir ; he was disguised. I didn't see his fEMse at all. 

Question. Did yon judge it was him by his horse f 

Answer. No, sir ; I didn't know him or the horse until next day. 

Question. Was he at New Market when you went there with the horses next day f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. What is Hill's ftOl name T 

Answer. John Hill. 

Question. What is the name of the man you had the fight with t 

Answer. Mr. Caldwell. 

Question. What is his first name T 

Ansufer. I don't know. 

Question. Does he live at New Market f 

Anssoer. No, sir; he left. 

Question^ where is he now T 

Answer. He went to Tennessee. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Did he go on account of this trouble that you had with him t 

Answer. I don't know how he came to leave. 
, Question. Has he sold out T 

Answer. He sold out what he had, and went away and carried what he oould with 

QuesUon. How long did you say you had lived ^th Mr. MUler T 

Answer. Two years ; goins on three now. 

Question. Was this man Washington Strong any kin to you t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question. A fellow-servant f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. When were Washington Strong and Hal Johnson whipped 

Answer. I can't tell exactly when. 

Question. Did they tell you about it T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Are they living up there yet T 

Answer. Yes, sir; they are living at the same place yet ; that is, at Parsou Steele's. 

Question. Are they working for him or renting land f 

Answer. I don't know whether they are working for him or on shares. 1 think they 
Me on shares, for they have no stock of their own. 

Question. Where is Parson Steele's f 

Answer. In aV>ut four miles of New Market. 

Qu&tion. Had the little man a pistol when he was in your house f 

Answer, I couldn't tell, it was so dark, whether he had a pistol or not. 

Question, Were yon shot before you hit him, or afterward ? 

Answer. Afterward. 

Question, How did they come to leave their horses T 

Answer. We fought them with rocks, and run them off from the horses. 

Quost ie n . Who was with you f 

Answer. My two brothers-in-law and Henry Clunn's brother-in-ln w, Scot^ Roberts. 

Question. All in the house when they came in there T Digitized by CjOOQ IC 

Answer. I^o, sir ; there was no one in the house but my wife. ^ 

43 A 


QueBtian, Did they rash in at the same time yon did t 
Answer, No, sir. 
Question, Yon went alone f 
Answer, Yes, sir. 
Question, Did they stay oati»ide f 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, And they Joined with yon in pnrsning them T 
Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, And that is the way you captured the horses? 
Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. What did you do with the disguises you captured with the hoxaes t 
Answer, Just fetched them here to Hnntsville with the horses. 
Question. Who did you ffive them to f 

Answa: I don't know who to ; they just fetched them here. I was bad off; I was at 
home them. 
Question, Your arm was hurting you then f 
Anstcer, Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
Question. Were these two men whipped this year, or last yeart 
Answer, This year— only two or three months ago. 

By Mr. Beck : 

• Question, When were you shot t 
Answer, Three weeks to last Christmas. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, Were these men yon speak of as whipped, whipped by disguised men t 
Anstcer, Yes, sir; by di^uiaed meo. 

HUNTBVILLE, ALABAMA, Ootober 9, 1871. 

AUGUSTUS BLAIR (colored) sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, Where do you live T 

Answer, Here in Hnntsville. 

Question, Where did you live in December, 1868? . 

Answer. On Msgor Floyd's plantation, in Limestone County, on Fort HaiAilton HUl* 

By Mr. Beck : 
Question, What is the post-office ? 
Ansu}er, Lucky-Hit post-office ; a mile and a half from there. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. State whether you had a son killed about that time — December, 1868. 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Go on and state the circumstances of his death. 

Anstcer. I bad a son who was living with me at the time; the only son I bad; about 
eighteen vears old ; very well )m)wn ; as big as I was. He went out ou a Monday night 
Dver to what they called the Allen's Ford, where some colored people were settled, on 
the creek, hog-killing, and Jim Henry Cox, and Bunk Hinds and Pony Hinds, (two 
brothers,) were there, and they got into a row with this boy. 

Option. Who did? 

Anstcer. These Hinds and Jim Henry Cox. and then Jim Henry Cox trie^ to cat his 
throat with a knife, and he tbrowed up his band, and some other colored people — ^Place 
Forrow and Reuben Blair — prevented it, and they took him home with them tnat night, 
and be came to his house Tuesday morning to me^and the Tuesday night following 
the Ku-Klnx came. They told bim that night, " You light now, but you will not fight 
when the Ku-Klux come.^' It was awful cind that night. 

Question. Did the Ku-Klnx come to your house ? 

Anstcer. Yes, sir. 

Question, At what hour f 

Answer, About 11 o'clbck by Mr. Wallace's clock. I had no clock. I asked him next 
Jioming what time it was they came, and he said it was about 11 o'clock. 

Question. Had you retired f ><^ i 

Anstcer. Yes, sir. I was abed and asleep, with all my £ftm^^ ^ GoOglc 


(ftmliom. Wastbereany li^t bnnnng? 

Antwer. Yes, eir ; a good bi^ fire. It was migbty oold. Jnst as I laid down I pnt on 
two sti^s of wood. 

Quatkm. Had yon any ezpeetation of being visited bv Ku-Elnx f 

Answer, No, sir, no dream of 1>eing pestered by anybody. I stood in snch a way I 
ctidn't think anybody had anything against me. They had been at my hoose onee 
before, hut didn't interfere with me, and I had been resting saf^. I went there in 1867, 
and this was in th« fall of 1868. 

Qm«9ti9n. State what they did. 

Afuwer. They came that night and knocked at my door. I got np and opened the 
door very qoietly, and they came in. 

QutoHo n, How many came in t 

Answer, Sim Hndson and Pony Hinds walked in at the door, and Jnst behind them 
came Hngfa Hndson, 8im Hudson's father, and he took a chair and sat down by the 
fire, and they ordered me to light a candle. I took a candle from the mantelpiece and 
pulkd a straw from the broom to light the candle. Sim Hndson kicked his father a 
little in t^e bock with his knee, and pointed to me. I was looking in his face this way. 
1 knew him. I had lived there thirty years. 

QmesHan. Had they disguises on f 

Ammcet, Only one of the men bad ; Dick Hinds had on a dis^ise. I knew him. Me 
and him was raised together. He had a little piece over his face. They came and 
searched my honse all over it. By the time I got ont of bed I heard them breaking 
the door down in the room where my boy was, with two grown daaghters. He had 
two sisters that were grown ; they had been married, bnt their husbands died in the 
war. They broke that door down, and just as I got up I heard the door fliU, and they 
Slid, " Here he is, by God ! Here he is P Dick Hinds came into my honse and asked me 
to carry the candle into the next room, and one of them said, ** Keep back Jim Henry: 
he will cut his throat." I walked in and says to my daughter, " Where's William T" 
and she says, " There he is ; see the blood running ;" and I stepped out on the platform 
and held up the candle and looked at them, and as I looked out two of them had him 
and had his head drawn back in this way (iUustratibg) and two others were beating 
him in the face with a pistol. They had no disguises on. They finally took him off a 
quarter of a mile. When they started this man wont to me and said, " Do you know 
mef Don't you tell me no lie." I said, **No." This was Dick Hinds. He says, " No, 
God damn you ; you hadj^tter not know me." He says, *' This time I have nothing 
against you. You are a hard-working old nigger. You staid at home during the war 
and took care of the little children." Another one stepped up and said, " I want to 
give yon some anyhow, if you did stay at home in the war. You said my son came to 
jour house and took your horse out of the stable." I says, " Yes, I did say so. He came 
to me and told me he wanted my horse and took him out of the stable.^' Says he, " I 
want to hurt yon," and he walked up toward me, and one of them flung him back and 
eays, '' You s^n't hurt old Gus. He is making an honest living. You go on and let him 
alone." I stepped in and put on my boots to get out through my stable, and as they 
went through the yard I went through the orchard and got over where there was hog- 
weeds as high as my head, and came up and heard their conversation as they were going 
ap the hill with my boy. On the hill there was some cotton, and I got on my knees 
there and crawled up to hear what they would do ; for if they killed him I wanted to 
find him. There they stripped him naked. I was close enough to hear him, as they 
were going up, when he told them, " Oh ! gentlemen, you all canying me along, and 
here are two men stabbing me with a knife?' They said, " It's a damned lie j nobody 
i« sticking you." He says, " Oh, yes ; I fejel the blood nmning down my pants." They 
says, •• Go on, God damn you ; you will have no use for no blood no how mighty soon.' 
He went on up the hill with tfiem, and they were punching and cutting him. When 
they got up there they took him down and beat on his head. I was not further from 
than than twenty yards. I crept right around behind the patch of briars and laid 
there. He never hollered bnt once, but I could hear him [imitating the wheezing, rat- 
tling sound in the throat] as they were choking him, and others were cutting him with 
a knife as they held him there, and some of the rest of them were going backwards and 
forw^ards to the other company, and some of them came sometimes as close as from here 
to that post, [five yards.] I would lie close, so they c6n)d not see me. The night was y 
mighty cold, and they made up a fire just a piece on— as far off as from here across the 
Btteet—and they would pass backward and forward ; and one of them says by and by. 
when they were cutting at him, " The captain says you have done enough." Thdy said 
to the boy, " Yon feel here and see how you like these gashes. Do you reckon they will 
do yon f He went back to the captain and told him, and the captain hollered, *• I 
told you to spore life," and then one says, "Get up, get up, God damn you," and I looked 
up, aad the boy was so weak that when he went to get up he was staggering, and one 
of them catched him by the shoulders and held him, and just then one hauled off and 
struck at him. He had staggered, I reckon through weakness, for the road was bloody 
*U the way up the hill. This man hauled off and struck him and then jumped on to 


him and stamped kim, and they shot off their pistols then and got on their hotses and 
w^eut away. I was looking at them to see which way they were going for a whila, but 
I got uneasy and went on to take the boy on to the house. I was scrambling in the 
bushes and around trying to find him, when I heard the ^irls, a quarter of a mile off 
from me, cry out, ''Oh, Lord I Lord I here's Billy cut to pieces with a knife I Come, 
sister, help me put him in the house.'' And I struck and ran home, and there he was 
stuidine with nothing on him but his shirt, and trembling all over and bloody, and x 
says, ''Ob, what's the matter? Can't you tell me nothing, my b«yf" and be says, 
" No, no," and they took him in and I drew the bed before the fire in my room and sent 
the little boy off as fast as he could go for ihe doctor, but the doctor sent word he was 
going to Huntsville and could not come. The next morning before day I put the little 
boy on a horse and sent for the doctor again. Doctor Frank Blaur sent word he eooldn't 
come, but he would send his &ther, old Doctor John Blair ; that was the man that 
raised me. He never came until 8 or 9 o'clock that morning ; then he walked in. By 
that time the house was crowded with white people, and when he walked in and looked 
at the boy he says, " I don*t think I can do him any good." Says I, "Are you going off 
without trvins to do him any gpod, doctor t" He says, " Have you ffot any tallow F I 
told bim I bad. He says, " Have jou any castile soap t" I said, " Yes," we had. Says 
ho, ^* Have you cot any tar f" I told him we had. Then be turned in and made a ppol- 
tioe, a salve, and dressed his wounds. I beard him tell it in Huntsville afterward that 
it took him two hours to dress the boy's wounds. You cooldu't touch him anywhere, 
from his shoulders down to the tips of his big toes. There was no place on his legs or 
feet that you could touch him. 

Question. Why could you not touch him f 

Anaioer, Because it was cut to pieees with a knife. The calves of his legs were split 
up and cut across, and his thighs were split open and cut across, and his knee looked 
like they had tried to take the cap off of his knee, and all his hands and arms were cut 
and slit up too. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Queatian. Did you say his feet were cut T 

Annoer, The bottom of his feet were split open and the bottom of his heel was split. 
Mr. Tom Green here was one of the grand Jury that examined him. 

QueatiotL Was he carried here before the grand jury f 

Answer, Yes, sir, he was carried in on a litter part of the way. 

QuestUm. How long did he live f 

Anstcer, He lived a vear. I fetched him here. I lived in Limestone then. He got so he 
could get about a little. I hired a wagon and fetched him here, but directly be came here 
he was taken down with a liemorrbage that came from stamping him on the stomach 
and breast. They stamped him all over the stomach and breast. In two weeks after 
he was examined in the court-room there he died. Everybody that saw him said he 
couldn't live, and they were surprised that he lived so long. I had the doctors to tend 
him. I owe forty or fifty dollars to Doctor Henry Benford ; he asked me for the money 
on Saturday. After all this was done I knew every man of them, and I came here and 
made complaint. Mr. Wager assisted me, and Jim Common, of Athens, told me to have 
them arrested before the grand jury. I did it, and Mr. Lentz, the sheriff— I went down 
with him—Mr. Common and Bir. Lentz took the boy in the room and examined him. 
He says to me, " Qus, he can't live." At that time his legs were more than double the 
natural size. I had a good deal of property down there. I had thirty head .of hogs 
and four bales of cotton ; I had four bales ginned and fetched on to Athens with me : 
I ffot Mr. Wallace to help me, for I had got crowded. I fetched my cotton there and 
sold it. They looked for me to go back. I left my wife and young child there. I 
didn't want to go away. I hadn't done anything, but I believe they would have treated 
me just the same way and I went away. I left thirty head of hogs and one good milk 
cow ; four bales of cotton and my com in the field. Jim Common told me to sue for 
it. I went down there and all my things were gone. 

Question, Who got them f 

Answer, I don't know. Mr. Wallace turned around and sold a part of my hogs to 
Aquilla Cheatham, one of the neighbors there. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, Now give the names of the men ooncemed in the beating and cutting of 
your son t 

Answer, Dick Hinds and Pony Hinds, Buff Ray and George Hudson, Sim Hudson, 
Chew TFitzhugh) Hudson, Bill Norther, Jim Henry Cox, little Dave Friend. They 
had it down there Dave Friend, and they went to arrest the old man and let the youns 
one go, and since that they say his name is John, but he always went by the name ^ 

(Question. How many of these men were arrested f /^ T 

Answer, Eleven of them. Digitized by vjOOQLC 


ByMr. Buokibt: 
Qvestkm. Hove they all been arrested f 

Aittwer, Yee, sir ; bat they done run off. Only three came to the United States court 
hen in May. 

By theCHAiBiCAN: 

<iiie$tkm. Had they givei^bail to appear in oonrtt 

Jhmoer. Yes, sir. • 

(iumUom. Did they forfeit their bonds f 

Auwer. Yes^ sir ; they went off and are not here. 

QuttHon, Have tber left that part of the oonntry for good f 

Antwer. Yes, sir ; they have gone to Arkansas. 

Qtmiion, Have these three b^n tried f 

Jnntar, Ho, sir ; they never had tbem np here before the coort at alL 

QmtUom, Are they oat on bail now f 

•4«M0r. Yes, sir. They were here last spring, bnt the others were not here. Lawyer 
Malone, of Athens, told me he thought the ones that done the damage were going. 
"Where.'' I asked him. He said Dick Hinds was going to Arkansas, and he aidirt 
know where Jim Henry €k>x wa& 

By Mr. Buckley: 
Que$tion, Is Eliza Jane Blair yonr daaghter f 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

(luetthn. Did she make an affidavit before Mr. Wager in regard to this caset 
Answer, Yes, sir ; she came here, and my daughter Charlotte, and my wife too ; they 
all saw them and all knew them. 

By the Chairman : 

QwtlUm, Were more than one of tiiese men disguised f 

Anmcer, Only one was^disguised. 

QustiotL How was he^disguised f ' 

An$wer. He had on a gown that struck him about the top of his boots— may be half 
way from his knee down, and a sort of white veil over his face, and he raised it up and 
asked me if I knew him. I reckoned it was best to say I didn't, and I told him I 
dido't know him. He said, "Damn you, you had better not know me,'' and he com- 
mehced talking about the horse. The other one stepped up then ; he had a pistol in 
Ilia hand and jabbed it in my face. 

Qitesthn. Did^ey come on foot to your house! 

Answer. Yes. sir: the horses were on the hill. After they got done they went over 
to Tarboroaeh and beat a boy by the name of Joe Yarborough.. 

Qses^ton. The same night f 

Answer, Yes, sir j down in the fork of the river. 

Question. Was he a colored boy f 

Answer, Yes, sir. These men, when they came baek to my house asked, '^ Where is 
Gosf She said she didn't know, and they knocked her down, and stamped her and 
ckokerl her ou the bed. Tbov went down to the house to one of my daughters and 
clioked her and beat her, and was going to beat Eliza, but she begged that sho was 
«ck and says, " I don't know where father is." One of tbem run in the house then 
ttd said, *' Come out here and let the women alone ; they don't imow where Gas has 

<tfie$tion. How long was that after your son was taken out f 

Answer, The same night A parcel of them took him and two of them came back 
sod did that, and they told my wife, " TeU Gus he has been here two years, and it is as 
looft as we intend he shall be here. White folks wants to work this land." There is 
ozAiindred acres of land cleared. I rented out part of my laud there to a white man 
named Mr. Wallace. He told my wife to tell me that Inside of two weeks 1 must not 
be caoght there. He said, ** He has got to get away, crop or no crop." 

Question, Were these men all renters f 

Answer, The Hudsons were renters. They were not all renters. Dick Hinds had a 
toy good plantation. The Hudsons were renters, and Jim Henry Cox and Ruff Ray 
vere renters. Then I had to just get away from there as quick as I eould. That night, 
oold as it was, my wife had to lay out all night long. She could not find me and I 
wold not find her. I went over to where Mrs. Andrews was lying a corpse and they 
were sitting up with her, and I asked if Elam Hamilton was there. Some white wo- 
nen eame out and they seemed scared. It seemed that there were no men there. 7 
jcat on over home, then, and asked for my wife. About daylight my wife came in. 
Sfie said she had been sitting in the cotton patch all night in the oold. At this time 
Mr. Wallace's wife came from sitting up with the corpse, and she said, " What is the 
"natter here ? " I says, " It w^s near about judgment last night. They have out Billy 
^ to pieces and have killed him. Doctor Blair says it is no use to do anything for 


him/' She says, "Oh Lord! good Lord! good Lord!'' and Mr. Walllu^ came to mj 
honso and asked what I was going to do. I told him I was going to hitch up my 
horses and get mycotton ; that X could not go away. I says, " I will have to have oarts 
to carry it away." He says, " I dou't reckon yoar sorrel horse will work, and I will 
l«t you have my horse to help you if your horse don't work ; " but my horse worked 
finely, and I hanled four bales ; I took two bales, and Mr. Wattine two bales. I sold 
my cotton for twenty cents, and I paid Mr. Common what lowed him, and then I came 
on here and sent back for my children, and my hogs, and everything else was gone and 
destroyed. Mr. Floyd came np there once in tiid springs in Mamh. He aaked if I could 
pay him. I told him I had nothing to pay him. I says, ^* When I camo away yoa 
ought to have gone down there aad taken everything.'* There wa«a bale left up-stairs 
and half a bale in the gin, and the rest in the patch. There was nine bales in all ; and 
about all my com and everything is gone. 

Question. What waa the value of the com, cotton, and everything elae that you left 
behind when you came away ! 

An$w€r. About five hundred dollars' worth, Mr. Common said. I never even got a chair 
— everything was destroyed and taken. There was four bales of cotton, and four bales 
of cotton, you know, was worth |:^ at 20 oents a pound. Cotton rose then. I had 
forty acres of corn, out of my seventy-five acres, and it waa good corn — splendid com. 
Mr. Hamilton wanted to buy the com in the patch. Jost Ij^fore that I was speaking 
of moving away, and Mr. Floyd says, " Gus, you are such a good fiirmer, nobody will 
intemipt you," and then I turned in and rented the place for another year, and I was 
to pay him when I sold the present crop, but they broke me up before Christmaa. 

Question, Did he hold you for rent when you had been compelled to abandon the 

Anstoer. Yes, sir, he even came up here for it, and I had hia biother-in-law to draw a 
pistol on me, right down in the next room, about the pay. Mr. Figgs, the squire, saw 

Question, You say you had two sona-in-law in the Union army ^Kxring the war f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Questfbn, Did tbey return f 

Anstoer, No, sir; tbey died. Anderson Blair was Eliza Blair's husband, and she 
made afiidavit for her pay a good many times, but Mr. Wager said she didn't make the 
right kind of proof. 

Question, Did you have any arms about yonr house at the time of this occurrence f 

Answer, No, Sir ; not a thing. I was living there just as quiet and peaceable as anv 
neighbor or citizen could live ; no black person but me lived there. They had run all 
the rest of them away, but I didn*t think anybody would ever interfere with me. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Have you heard of any more disturbances of this kind down there f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did you hear of black people beiuflt whipped by nwn in disgnise t 

Answer, Yes, sir, and white men too. Mr. Harrison, Mr. Wallace's brother-in-law, a 
white man and a Union num, was taken out and whipped badly and treated awfolly, 
and then they told him to get away ; and then they came back, two weeks before they 
came to my house, and tied him to a simmon (persimmon) tree and shot him. 

Question Did yon hear of any other casef 

Answer, Jnst a while b^ore they killed Mr. Harrison they went over by Benfield's, 
and they had some big persecution and whipping of people over at Bodgersville. 

Question. Black people f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; they took one mtm there and treated him pretty much as they had 
treated my Billy. 

Question. Was that in Limestone f 

Answer. No, sir; in Lauderdale Ooantv. I didnt live but two miles from the line. 

Question. Did you beiur of men Hdhig in disgnise in that county f 

Answer, Yes, sir; men in Landerdiue Connty.wore black gowns, but in Limestone 
they wear white gowns ; but when they came'to my honse, that night, they didn't 
have on white gowns. I reckon they thought there wasn't but one negro there, and 
they didn't need to put on goWna. SeTeraloitiaens asked me about it, but I told th«m 
I reckon they thongnt they didn't need any as there was only one negro there. 

Question, Did ^ou hear of c^her places where disguised men took people ont f 

Answer, Yes, sir; all throngh Tennessee. Mr. Hamilton, Jnst a while before this 
happened, was up m Tennessee hunting a mule, and he said to me, *^ I saw the awful- 
est sight day before yesterday that I ever saw in my life." He had rode out in the 
cotton-field to where I was. I asked him what it was. He said, *' I saw a man tied 
to a tree and shot six times throngh the head, and his head just laid back, Ixia 
month open, and grinning dead, and it was the awfulest sight I ever saw." 

Question, Where does tEe doctor live who dressed yomr son T ^OqIc 

Answer, In Limestone County ; he has been here twice as a witness, o 

kX.knkMA — 8fJB-<K>MMITTEE. 679 

Quetiion WAen did your son die T 

Annofr. Year before last : the first Ohristmas rooming. 

QuetiHom, How long did he live f 

Answer. Abont a year and a few weeks. 

^IMS/ton. Did yon ever hear the doctor say what was the cause of his death f 

Antwer, I heard him say, down there in the eonrt^honse, that it was the outtiug and 
8tampin|^ that had killed him : he said, when he came to see him at fost, that he 
bad no idea at all of his ever living. Mr. Joe Petty told my daughter— a neighbor 
man that ^ned my cotton — and tola me, ** Gns, I could have told you here'last year, 
but when I told you they were not going to let you live there you ought to have gone 
away and then your boy wouldn't have been cut up.'' He was standing at my door 
and asked about It, and when I began to tell him he ran off to the gin and says, *^ I 
caoi'l stand to hear of a human being being cut up in that way. I can't bear to hear tliat 
now ; let me study on it a while and get my mind settled to hear it." He went off, 
and he came next day and a^ed to hear it, aud I told him, and he says, ** O, Qod, 
BtB ; you must get somebody else to gin your cotton now. I can't do it after hearing 
fhsA. I cant gin your cotton." He says : " If they had known that Billy could have 
sot to the house they would have killed him where he was that night. They had no 
idea of his coming to the house." Then he says, ** I'll gin your cotton and let you get 
away, for I listen &om this time every night for your death." 

By Mr. Beck : 

Quettian, 1 thought you stated at first that your boy died a very short time after this 

An$wer, No^ sir. 

Qme8tUm, Bfow long was it f 

Anstoer^ It was a year and about two weeks. It was done two weeks to Christ- 
mas, and he died about Christmas. 

QuesHpn. It was done two w^ks before Christmas, 1868, and he died Christmas, 1869 f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; Christmas morning, 1869. 

(Question. Were the fellows who killed him the same feUows that had the fight with 
him a short time before f 

AMBtper, Yes, sir, the very men. 

Oife9ti4Hi. How long before the time they butchered him in that way was it they had 
bad the fight f Yon say it was on Monday night. 

Amswar. it was a moath lacking a day. It was Monday night he was at the hog- 
killing and they had the fuss, and Tuesday night, the very next night, they came. They 
told him, " Go<l damn you, go on now ; you can fight now, but wait till the Ku-Klux 

QuesHon. Monday they had the fight, and Tuesday night they came and butchered 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. The same lot of fellows f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; there was Jim Henry Cox had the knifid, and I beard them say ''Keep 
Jim Henry Cox back or he will cut his throat ;" and while they were beating him in 
the face with his head thrown back, Jim Henry Cox run nn to out his throat with his 
knife out this way, [illustrating, J but his uncle threw him back and kept him off. 

Question. Did they have a pretty hard fight the night before t 

Answer. No, sir ; there were three of them, and be was but a boy, only one. Bunk 
and Pony Hinds were there. 

Question. What kind of people were the Hinds' T 

Answer* IPhey were low-down, drunkon, mean men. the meanest, meanest kind of 
mean men. They are drunkards and mean men, and tneir daddy before thorn — mean, 
mean, mean as you can think of. 

Qussihii. What sort are the other loi— the Hudsons f 

Answer. They are tho meanest kind of men that you could find anywhere ; always 
troubling and disturlni^ people, whites and blacks. 

Question. £ight out of the eleven left the country t 

Answer. Yes, sir, only three of them came here, and all the balance are gone. 

Qusstiom. And they are being proeeooted now in the United States court ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; caie of them is dead. He has gone to his k>ng home. 

QuesOim. He has beat the case f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; he is dead. 

HuNTSViLLE, Alabama, Cttober 9, 1871. 
WHjLIAM ford (colored^ sworn and examined. 

By the Chairbcan : C^mr^n]t> 

Question. Where did you live in the faU of 1868 T ° 9'^'^^^ ^^ V^OO^ LC 

Answer. On Mr. Jesse Lawler*s place, the other side of the prownsborough road, in 
Madiion County. 


QuesthtL How loDg bad you lived there f • 

Answer, I had liv^ there going on two years. 

Question, Were yon in the Army dnring the war f 

Answer, No, sir ; I was with the Army three weeks^ bat not a soldier. I was only 
helping to«fortify. 

QuesUan, Had you a family in the ^gOI of 1868t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, Were you visited by the Ku-Klux that year f 

Answer, Only Just onoe ; that time they whipped me. 

Question, When was it f 

Answer, 1868. 

Question, What month f 

Answer, I don't know exactly what month. It was Just a week before the Grant 
election came off. 

Question, Qo on and give all the particulars of your whipping. 

Answer, I really don't know what they whipped me for. They said they whipped me 
for my threatening to shoot them if they ever attacked or did anything to me ; that is, 
them of the Ku-Klnz faith. 

Question, Who whipped you f 

Answer, I can't tell ; they were disguised. 

Question. How many were in the crowd f 

Answer. I suppose about a hundred in the crowd. 

Question. Were they disguised f 

Answer. Yes, sir, every one of them. 

Question. Were they on foot or on horseback t 

Answer. On horseback. 

Question. Were they armed f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How were they armed t 

Answer. With pistols. 

Question. Were their horses disguised? 

Ansujer^ Yes, sir. 

Qtiestion, What was the disguise the men had on f 

Answer. They had white cloth over their fWces, and had on long black gowns. 

Question. Had they any horns on their head t 

Answer, Yes, sir, they had horns on their head. They didn't have their hats on. They 
had something on their heads with horns to it. 

Question, How were their hones disguised f 

Answer' They had white sheets tied over them that came down under the belly and 
were tied. It did'nt go down on the legs at all. 
. Question. How late at night was it f 

Answer, About 11 o'clock. 

Question. At whose house was itf 

Answer. At my father's house. 

Question. Were you abed f 

Answer. Yes, sir, I was abed sick. 

Question. Was the whole fiunily abed f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was there any light in the house t 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. What did they do f 

Answer. They came into the door and called for me. When they called for me I 
jumped out of bed. I saw there was no chanee to get out of the house. I pulled up a 

Elank under the l>ed, and they came in and searched for me, and they went to another 
ouse and inquired for me, and he told them I was sick and was bound to be there, and 
so they came back and tore up the floor and got me out, and they diained my arms 
and beat me out in the road, and made me run about half a mile. 

Question, Had you any arms in the house f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Who were in the house when they came there f 

Answer, James Ford and Margaret Ford and Aaron Ford; that's my mother and 
father and brother. 

Question. Were these all that were about the house f 

Ansxoei'. Sfes, sir. 

Question. No arms were about the house f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Were you expecting them at all f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Was that the first you ever saw of the Eu-Elux l^ed by CjOOQ IC ^ 

Answer. Yes; sir ) that was tne first I ever saw of them. o 


QuettUm. Was that a moonligl^ night f 

Amwer, Yes, sir. 

QuaUon, Toa say they boand yoar arms f 

insiMr. Yesy sir; right back in this way, [illnstratinff,] and chained them back, and 
ther rnn the chain across my back and looped it in each arm, and made me ran about 
hslf a mile, to where they whipped me. 

Question, Had yon yoar clothes on f 

AMwer, I came out of the field that eyening and had a ehiU, and jnst laid down on 
the bed, and the folks didn't wake me up at dark, and so I didn't pull my dothea off, 
sod hadn't them off when they waked me. 

Question. Yon had a coat on f 

Answer. No, sir ; only a vest and pants. 

QueetUm. What did these men do then f 

Answer, They stretched me out in the road and whipped me, I suppose iUx>nt a 
bQDdied lashes. 

QumUou, Was this all done by one man f 

AMswer. Only one man did the whipping ; but the men that made me double-quick 
before that were not the men that whipped me. 

Question, What were, yon whioped with f 

Answer, With a hickory switcn. 

Question. How long f 

Answer. I suppose about four feet long. 

Question, Did it cut the flesh f 

Answer, No, sir ; only in one place. One of them, when they had me running, jumped 
his borse on me, and the horse struck my heel and it cut the flesh rif ht smart. That 
is the only place it cut the flesh. He never cut the flesh with a switck 

Question, J[>id you lie with your face down while they were whipping f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, What did they say they whipped you forf 

Answer, They said they whipped me for threatening to shoot the Kn-Klux if they 
attacked me. 

Question. Did they say they were Ku-Klux f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Where did they say they came from t 

Anmeer, Some of them said they came from Nashville, and some down from off the 

Question, Did you know any of them f 

Answer, No, sir ; not one ot them. They were all disguised. 

Quesition. Did they have any liquor along ? 

Anmer. I don't know whether they had or not. 

Question. You did not see them drinking f « 

Answer. No, sir. 

Ques^m, What did they do with you after they whipped yon t 

Antwer. They told me to ^ on back. They asked me who I was going to vote for ; 
for Grant and Colfax, or Blair and Seymour, and I claimed to them, as they had me out 
Aere ov erpo w ered, that I would vote for Blair and Seymonr. I did that to get off. They 
wanted to know my politics, and I answered, '' What is politics, sir f " — very igpnorant 
like—and he says, " Who will you vote for T " I says, " I will vote for Blair and Sey- 
mour." I said that to get off as light as I could. They had another man out at the 
same time, and they whipped him tremendous ; four whipped him at the same time. 

Question, How did you know that the men who whipped you were for Seymour and 

AnnoeT. I knew that no republican would go on no such a platform as that. 

By Mr. Bucelby : 

Question. Who was this other man who was whipped at the same time t 

Answer, George Lawler. He lived.on Ben. Lawler's place. I live on Jesse Lawler's. 

Question, What did they whip him for? 

Answer, They said they whipped him for his threats, and for talking politics. 

Question, Did he talk i>olitics f 

Answer, I suppose he tried to instruct his colored friends, and he was not so particularly 
viee a man in talking politics, but he talked what he thought was reasonable and 
what he knew. 

Question. Did they whip him severely f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; four or five whipped him at the same time. * 

Que^ion. The same men that whipped you f 

Answer, Yes, sir. They whipped nim as near to me as from here to that chair, 
rbey whipped him first. 

Question. The same band whipped both of you f r. , , C^ r\r\cs\o 

-4n«IWr. Yes, sir. Digitized by ^^OO^LL 


Question, Did they say anything to him aborit pontics? 

Answer, Yes^ sir ; and I suppose he owned a great deal that he knew, and he claimed 
that he was going to vote for Grant and Conax, and I suppose that is why they 
whipped him so much more than me. Hq had thioatened to snoot them, and, in fuct, 
he had his enn sitting at the head oi his bed. He had made his threats ttiat he haid 
it there, and they went in and found it there, and took him out and whipped him 
mighty bad. 

Qtt^on. He had said if the Ku-Klnx troubled him he would shoot them f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Did they draw blood on him f 

Answer, Yes, sir, they drawed blood on him. 

Question, Did you ever hear of these men whipping a democratic negro t 

ATuncer. No, sir. I never heard of their whippmg a democrat. 

Questi&n. Have ^on heard of any other cases of whipping up there t 

Answer. Well, sir, I heard they whipped old man Wesley Vincent. 

Question. The same fall f 

Ansu>er. I don't remember about the time; may be a month after they whipped me, 
and took two pistols and a gun, and seven dollars in silver and nine dollars in green- 

By the Chairman : 
Question, Was be a colored manf 
Answer, Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, What did they whip him for f 
Answer. 1 don't know what they whipped him for. 
Question. Did you hear of any other c&ses f 

Answer. No, sir. I went off that fall^ and shortly after that down to Arkaafaa, and 
staid there until last Christmas. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Did all this whipping happen in Madison County T 

Answer, Yes, sir : all these cases I have explained happ^ied in Madison County* 
. QtM8ti<m. In the faU of 1868 f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Were eny of these men ever punished for any 6f these whippings t 

Answer, No, sir ; never. 

Question, Were they never taken up t 

Answer. No, sir ; in fact I don't know whether there was any of them known ; who 
they were that did it, and if they were known men were afraid to tell who Ihsy were. 
1 don't suppose thoy were known because they were always disguised when they first 
came about. I don't know how it was last year and year before last. 

Question. Did you come to Huntsville and make complaint f 

Ansxoer, No, sir; I didn't make complaint. I got through with my crop as soon as I 
could, and wound up and went to Arkansas. 

Question. Did you go because you were afraid to stay in that neighborhood f 

Anstoer, Yes, sir, because I was afraid to stay in this country. 

Question, Did any colored men in that part of the country vote the democratic 
ticket f 

Answer, I heard of some that voted the democratic ticket. 

Question, Why did they do it f 

Answer, Because they were scared into it and forced into it. 

Question, Did they tell you so ? 
. Answer, Yes, sir, they told me so. When the Grant and Colfax election came off I 
didn't vote at aU. I was afraid to. I didn't want to vote democrat, and I thought if 
I couldn't vote the republican ticket I would not vote at all, and so I didn't vote at alL 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question, These were the first Ku-Klux you ever saw f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. And the only ones you ever saw f 

Anstcer, Yes, sir. No, I will take that back. I saw some passing the toj^ one night 
after that. I was off a good piece, though. 

Qu€9tion. They had never troubled you be^Dce in any way t 

Answer. No, nor since. 

Question. What were you threatening them about t 

Answer. I suppose they said I threatened to shoot them if they ever uudertook to 
come in on me to whip me. ^^ - 

Question. Had you not been threatening them t Digitized by vjOOQIC 

Answer, No, sir. ^ 


QuestUnu Hott did they get that out on you T 

Anmcer, I don't know. ThatHi what they whipped me for. There is a great many 
people in that neighborhood, and this man I was living with had a brick-yard, and me 
Md Mm had a fiiwing out, and eame mighty near fignting, and he said, ^ Go ahead, 
young man, and watch your downfall/' and about a month after that the Ku-Klox 
came and whipped me. Me and him had a falling out about his whipping my 

By the Chairman: 

Question, What was his ntftte f ' • 

Anwer. Jesse Lawier. 

By Mr. Bbck : 

Question, Is he there yet f 

Answer. No, sir, he is dead. 

Question, Where do you live now f 

Answer, Ou Perry Harrison's place,' about a mile from there. 

Question, Were you summonod to come here f 

Answer, N<k sir. 

Question, How did yoa find out that you might be wanted f 

Amwer, Ham Gravitt came out and strewed the news through the oountry, and oame 
to me and talked about it, and told me and proposed to me to oodoie dowm to-4»y, and 
1 got on the horse and came on. 

Quation, You came to the door here without being summoned f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, How many of you came f 

Answer, Three of us came together. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Que»Uon, Had you all been whipped f 
Answer, Ham Gravitt himself hadn't been whipped. 

By Mr. Beck : 

QuesHon, Where does he live? 

Answer, Up two miles from Maysville— two miles from where I live. Anthony Bowen 
was there too. 

Question, Is he at the door f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did you and Lawier come to blows t 

Answer. No, sir. He whipped my brother, and I asked him who authorized him to 
wlup any nigger. Ho said he 'low'd to whip every nigger in the brick-yard before 10 
(i^ttoek. 1 got outside then and told him here was onene wouldn't whip, and I was a^ 
good a man as there was in the brick-yard. Then he said, '^Go ahead ;" ne would whip 
my brother again, except hell froze over. 

Qnsstion. When you stepped out of the brick>yard did he follow you t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question. You didn't have the fight f 

Answer, No, sir ; we never had 3xe fight. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Did you ever hear of the Ku-Klux visiting the colored people's houses for 
tile pnrpose of taking their arms of defense t 

Answer, I have very frequently heard of that. They called on me for my arms that 
night. . I had none : they said I had some — that they were told I had some. A few 
ireeks before that 1 had a pistol, and I came off down to Huutsville, and somebody 
stole it from me. They took the weapons from mighty near all the colored people in 
the heighborhood. Very few have anything now. 

Question. Was this done before you went to Arkansas? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was it done by the Ku-Klux f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley : < 

Qmstion, Did not men go about the country here in 1668 taking arms away i^m the 
colored men in all parts ot this county T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; men that claimed to be Ku-Klux, from each way, so far as I could 
near, ^nd men ri^ht down in the neighborhood — idl down where I lived did it. 
Question, They just came in and got their guns and pistols, and took them and leftf 
Answer. Yes, sir. ^ j 

By Mr. Beck : ° ^'^'^'^ ^^ ^OOglC 

Q^tesHon. Had you Loyal Leagues there f 


Ansioer, Yes, sir. 

Quesiwn, Did jon vote for Colonel CaUis at that timet 

Amwer. Yes, sir. 

Questum, Did he frequently get you up to his Bureau gatherings and have yon 
there f 

Ansiver. Yes, sir. 

Queaium, Was there not a good deal of burning and stealing, and all sorts of devil- 
ment going on from your Loyal-Leaguers f 

Answer, No, sir ; not any burnings that I know of— not as I heard of. 

Question, There was a heap of stifling going on, was there n6t t 

Anstoer, Not as I heard of. 

Question, When one of your colored people wanted to vote the democratic ticket, what 
did you Loyal-Leaguers do with himf 

Answer. Nothing; we were afraid to do anything. 

Question. Why were you afraid I 

Answer. We were afraid of the democrats. 

Question, Did you not threaten him right smartly f 

Answer. No, sir ; we were afraid to. 

Question, How many were in the Loyal League f 

Answer, 1 don't know how many. 

QumUon, Were all of you Loyal-Leaguers obliged to vote the republican ticket t Was 
that the obligation f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; but not without tbey wanted to. 

Question, Could they get into your League unless they agreed to do it f 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, They had to agree to do that to get in f 

Answer, Yes,Vir. 

Question, That was to organize all of you to build up the republican party t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did you not arrange that you would not have anything to do with any 
black men that did not vote that ticket T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, You would not recognize any black men who did not vote that ticket ; was 
that it f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, You drove them out of your society f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, You would not keep company with them T 

Amwer, We wouldn't proshay [appreciate] them. 

Question. Proshay? 

Ansufer, Yes ; we wouldn't proshay them. We liked the white democrats better than 
them. Wo were all black alike, and think one black sheep is no better than another, 
and we never proehayed them. 

Question, You would have beaten them, if you had had the chance t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; but we were afraid to. 

Question, A darky was as likely to Ku-Klux you as any of the other democrats, the 
white ones, would .be t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Just as liable to be with them f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, You were afraid if you beat the democratic negroes that the^ would get the 
white democrats after you f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, That was all that kept you from doing it f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Was it not part of your League arrangement that these Wsuok fellows that 
voted the democratic ticket should be dnven out 7 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, That the women should not have anything to do with them t 

Answer, No, sir ; that's so ; even the women wouldn't proshay them. 

Question, Nor the men either f 

Answer, No, sir. 1^ 

Question, Could a democratic negro get any countenance from a colored sweetheart if 
he was known to be a democrat? 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. They would have nothing to do with him f 

Answer, No, sir; nothing at all. 

Question, The women helped you that far f 

Answer, YiMf BIT, ^izedb^GoOQlC 

Question. They would have nothing to do with those fellows t o 


Auwer. No, sir. 

Question, And tbey escaped being beaten only because yon were afraid tbat the white 
democrats weald get after you, and the black ones wonld come with them f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

QvestioH. There was a right bad feeling f 

Answer, Tes, sir. After they whipped me, I never rested another night until I got 
plamb out of the State ; that is, I never rested satisfied. 

Qnesiion. Where did you have the League meetings f Were they in Huntsvillef 

Answer, No, sir ; up at Fowler's wood-yard. 

Qusiion, How many would be there I 

Awwer, About two hundred of us. 

Oi««»(MMi. You all met there t 

^uwer. Yes, sir. 1 did know once how many, but I don't remember ; I suppose it was 
about two hundred. 

Qwse^mi, Did you all find out what colored men were going off with these demoomte, 
ftnd talk about them right smartly f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qwe/tlum. Did you not make arrangements t6 have them driven away f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

(luesiUm, Did not Colonel Oallis use to come up there among yoaf 

Answer. No, sir ; ho never came up there. 

QviesHon, Where did he keep his headquarters f 

Answer, Here in Huntsville. , 

Questioit. When you had your meetings, and two hundred of yon would come 
together, you felt pretty big, and tidked about how you would shoot f 

Jliuirer. Yes, sir ; we talked pretty big there. 

(inssiion. Is it not likely that some wno heard what you said told some of these fel- 
lows—the Ku-Klux— that you had threatened them f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; that's just how the report got out. 

(iwstwn. When you got in a big crowd, you boasted very heavily t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

QnesHon, Some of your fellows betrayed you, and these others got after you f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

By the Chaibman : 

(inesUon. Who organized your League t 

Awwer, I don't remember his name. 

(inesHon, Was he a colored man f 

Answer. Yes, sir. It was Dan Anderson, I think. 

(inestion. Did you hold your meetings in day-time or at night f 

Answer. At night. 

QnteHon. In a l)uilding or out of doors t 

Anewer, In a building. 

(iustion. Did you exclude everybody from the building but members of the League t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

QveyfuMt. You had a man standing at the door, so as to admit nobody but the mem- 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

QiMfttoii. Did you have a written constitution f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Qnesthn, When you say that in your meetings you talked l^ig, and boasted heavily, 
do vou mean that you threatened violence upon white men f 

Answer. No, sir. Only we made threatenings between us in this way : we said that if 
we were attacked by the Ku-Klux we would try to defend ourselves. We would say 
to one another, " If we are attacked by the Ku-Klux, we will shoot them or fight them 
imide of our houses." These were all the threats we made toward them. 

Qnesiion, You have been asked about your obligation or oath in the Loyal League. 
Do yoQ recollect what oath you took when you were admitted as a member of the 
Loyal Leaffuet 

Answer, No, sir. I have forgotten. 

Qutstion, What was the substance of it^ as near you can recollect? 

Answer, I don't remember much about it, because I was quite young anyhow. 

Qnestion. Was there any obligation that required you to vote with the republican 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

QnesUon, It was the understanding with every member of the League that every one 
▼as a republican f 

Answer, Yes, sir. j 

Qnettum. And that he would support the principles of the repablican party DOQlC 

Answer, Yes, sir. ^ 


By Mr. Beck : 
<>ii«0fi<m. Was that hi tiie oath f 
Anstoer. No, sir ; that was the nndeistancliiig between ue. 

By the Chatrman : 

f^utaUon, Wae there aoythiiig in the obligation whieh required yon to take np arms 
for the defense of each other, or anything of that sort f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Questum, What time did yon enter that Leagnef 

Answer, I went with it long in the first of Jnne. 

Questum, Id 1868 f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

QnetHan, Were moet of the membece of that League visited by the Kn-Elnx f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Qtt es tiat i , Do yon knew how many they drove off, ae yon were driven aS, so they 
could not vote in Madison Connty f 

Answer. No, sir, I don't ; but one man right in my neighborhood they run off to 
Stevenson. He was nght there a^oining'Mie. I heard of several going ofi^ but I don't 
remember who they were. They were in the county. 

Question, Were there a great many that staid away from the {mHIs or left that part 
of the country in consequence of these visitations of Ku-Klux f 

Anstcer, Yes, sir; I don't think the republieaa party got a vote in the district at all, 
or up there at Maysville. We aU were kept away.^ The principal part of them— well, 
aU-*were kept away on account of being interrupted by Ku-Klux. 

ByMr. Bbck: 
HumU^n. Did you not all come to town heoe to vote t 
Answer, No, sir ; I didn't vote at alL 
Question, You could vote in town f 
Answer, Yes, sir ; hot we were afraid to come in to vote. 

ByMr. Buckley: 

Question, You were afraid \o pass back and forth on the road, were yon f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; we were afraid of the hereafter^— coing home, u we voted here, 
some men in town would know us. That would let them in the light of it asd we 
would be persecuted hereafter, and so we didn't vote. 

QueiUon, So most of you black people about Maysville did not vote at all? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Would most of you have voted the r^ublioan ticket f 

Ansu>er. Yes, sir ; like men. 

Question, Would thoy not mostly have voted for Grant and Colfca f 

Answer. Yes, sir. There are some few, but very few, democratic colored folks. There 
is a good many of them that vote for the democratic ticket to keep on the ^ood side of 
the white people, to keep from being interbred with, but most of them didn't vote at 
all. When thoy can't vote for a republican they don't vote at alL 

By the Chairman: 
Qutsiion, Were the colored people that voted with the democrats, or talked of doing 
it, disturbed by the Ku-Klux T 
Answer, No, sir ; they were not interfered with at all. 

HmrrsviLLB, Alabama, October 0, 1S71. 

GEORGE ROPER (colored) sworn ^d ^amined. 
By the Chairman: 

Question, You may state where yon lived in November, 1868. 

Anstcer, Just at that time I was living— do you mean the time they shot mef 

Question, Yes. 

Answer, I was living directly opposite John Robinson's. 

Question. Where is tnat— in what county f 

Answer, Here in town — HuntsvUle. 

Question, You speak of having been shot f 

Anstcer, Yes, sir. 

Quettisn, Go on and describe to the committee when and under what oironmstancee 
you were shot. 

Answer. Well, sir, I will begin and tell you all about how it came to be, and all. 
You know we have got Siine nx>lish ooloied people ai^l some pretty wise enea. J net 
about as Mr. Grant was going to be elected, we were advising the colored people who 


\o vote for— to vote for justice and right, s» we thoaght ; and all the time that I was 
making a speech down in the court-honse yard to them— there was a large crowd — 
these white men were stancUng off, cursing me and abusing me, and saying, " Ev^ 
time that we get the colored people right, some damn nigger gets up here and spoils 
them all f and from that they were hunting me and getting after me. of nights. 

QwUon, What did tiiiey mean by saying when they got the colored people right 
•ome negro would spoil them all ? 

Antwer, We were telling them how to Tote, and these men wanted them to go the 
vsv they wanted them to vote. 

QuesUoiL And you were making a q;>eech to tbA colored people here in the coort- 

Anmcer. Tes, sir. 

QwtUon, How much of an audience had you f x 

iuMMT. Pretty large ; pretty large ; and white folks all around. 

(hesUon, Listening to you t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Quesium. What did you tell them as to voting f 

Answer, I said, you all come here to-day to hear the truth, to find out who is the 
best man to vote for, and I am up before you and I don't want any sinking Peter or 
doabting Thomas, although we all doubt, but look for the future that is coming ou 
before you. I said, remember you are your own men, and each of you say, ^* I am my 
own man now." Every day that yon lose is lost. There is i^pbody now to give you 
anvthing. Ever^ day that you talce sick and lie in your bed is a day lost, for there is 
nobody now to give you anything. Tour house-rent, six or seven doUars a month, is 
ewng on and nobody to pay it for you. Your debtors are looking for the money. Now 
look around for yourselves, and don't allow a man to look for you. Here you go into 
a store to buy you a pound, or two pounds, or five pounds of sugar, and they will 
book against yon, may be, twice the amount that you have to pay for it. Listen to 
that, and then go and learn your children. You are now too old to learn youxselves ; 
joaarenet M of you too old, either, but you have lost the good time now. Learn 
your children so they can read for you and write for you, and see if these men book 
wrong against you. I said there was a man called Judas Iscariot, which crucified oni 
Lord and Mast^, and sold him for thirty pieces of silver, and mind, now, and recol 
lot, for if you don't mind, you will certainly be betraying your cause for ten cents— 
not for thirty pieces of silver^-that is, betraying one another to the higher authority 
for ten cents. Well, when I said this, these men all looked at me and cursed. I, says 
my friends, I ean't speak to yon as I want to speak, because men is abusing me now, 
bot when the election comes, let us go for General Grant. Well, they were looking foi 
me all around this town, inquiring where I stood. 

QMesHon, Had you been a preacher f 

Answer, No^ sir ; I belon|;ed to the Baptist Church. 

QuesHon, Had you been m the habit of exhorting f 

Answer, Yes, sir. and praying, and so on. 

Quistum, Did tney look np to yon as a kind of leader? 

Answer, Yes, sir. Now I am goine to tell you how I come to be A»t. 

QuesUim, That is what I want to hear. 

Answer, I believe two or three nighn before the election the Ku-Klux came In 

By Bir. Buckley: 

ifuestwn, Saturday night t 
. Answer, Yes, sir; Saturday night before the election there came around the court- 
boose much of Ku-Klux. 

By the Chairman : 

(iusstum. Of whatf 

Answer. Of Ku-Klux, with hats as long as that, [illustrating,] and running np sharp 
right up above the head, and they had a little whistle, that you have seen sometimes 
in a whip-staff or butt for whistling, and they rode around the court-house ; I came 
right in b^ind them, and some one said to me, ** What are you coing to do with that 
gnn yon have got f '' I didn't say a word, but when I got to the court-honse gate I 
«aid, " Hurrah for Grant and Colfax." Here on the ground it looked to me as if there 
was twenty or thirty men, and they hollered, " Halt there." I stopped. The Ku-Klux 
bad all turned the comer then, and gone down toward the market-house, and formed a 
Hne tUan from that comer down to the ice-house. One man says, " What is that you 
8«dt» Says I, "Hurrah for Grant and CoMax." He says, "What is that in your 
baodt" Says I, "It is a gun." Says he, " What are you going to do with itT" I 
says. « I am not going to injure no man with it ; I don't know, unless he persecutes 
me.'' He said, "Drop that.'^ I said, " No, sir." He said, " Give that up, damn you." 
' Mo^ fir," mys L He says, " God damn you," and he says, " Shoot him," and the first 
thvt be fife^, be flbot me right here, [side of the head,] and turned me clean around, 


and the blood ran out of my eyes. I tnmed around quite genteel and humble, and 
says, ** What are you shooting me for T" He says^ " You didn't give up that gun." I 
says, ^* It's my gun ; I have it to hunt squirrels with.'' Then he shot me right here in 
the arm. 

QuesUon. The first shot was in the side of the head, and the second in the left arm f 

Answer, Yes, sir. Then I went to go across the street. There was a burnt building 
there. This new house was not put up then, but it had been burnt. As I went across 
the street opposite the court-house gate, tne way there was open so that I could get 
across to the uoxt street. There is two little places there now, but not so wide as 
then, for a new building has been put there. As I went across they said, ** Damn you, 
stop." I looked around and saw I was surrounded. They shot at my head, and 
knocked me so I was deaf for three days. I was foolish deaf, but they missed me. One 
came up, and he put a pistol ri£;ht to my face, and one Jobbed me in the back with a 
pistol and shot it off. I have tne pistol-ball now. [The witness exhibits a bullet.] I 
will pull off my clothes and show you in front on my breast the mark where the doctor 
cut it out. That bullet came in at my back, and came over my shoulder and came 
down here in the front in the breast. [The witness exhibits a scar.] I gave Doctor 
Erskine $10 to get it out. I will show you now where they shot me in the arm. [Re- 
moving his coat, the witness showed a scar on the forearm.]' You can feel the bullet here 
above the elbow. That was in the Joint of my arm, but working with the shovel, it 
has got above the elbow. After they shot me, then one of the men says to the other, 
'* Let him alone ; he wi}l not be worth shucks in five minutes." I still had my ffun. I 
wouldn't give it up, and wouldn't fall. I went over, but caught and didn't fall. 
They led me by the coat-collar down to the burnt building. The foundation was 
up breast-high. Thev run me up on there. I didn't know at first what the man 
was going to do with me. I thought he was going to take me out. I didn't know 
he was going to murder me. He run me over that place and pushed me down 
in a hole where the bricks and rocks were to break my neck; but I grabbed the 
white man as ho shoved me, with the gun and all, and I fell and ho fell on top 
of me. The blood came out of my mouth, and lie beat mo on the head with his 
pistol. He beat me on the head until at last I said, '* Gentlemen, I can't holler to 
save my life, but somebody will come and take you." As he raised his pistol to kill 
me, I raised my hand and catchod it out of his hand, and Jerked it under me as ^uick 
as thought. I was lying down with my breeches full of blood, and helpless. He says, 
" Where's that gunf Give me that gun ;" and he nulled it out of my hand. I says, 
" You may take that gun, sir, but I will get it again." He says, ** Yes, God damn you ; 
if you are not dead when I come back, I will kill you." I laid there on the flat of my 
back when he was gone. My left arm was now shot and I couldn't even fetch it around. 
I got up by degrees with the right hand ; I bent half up and then I fell flat down on my 
face ; and then I prayed to the Lord to help me, and the Lord, it looked like, answerea 
my prayers right there, and I got up again and dragged along until I got to the house 
close to the market-house- I bad the pistol still. I had poked it down right in be- 
tween the coat and the shirt under me. When I got in there, with the blood coming 
out of my month, I says to the man, " Take charge of this pistol until I call for it. 
Don't ^ive it to anybody." In a short time a man comes in and says, " George, whore's 
your pistol t " I couldn't talk, but some one said, " Lord, how bloody that man is ; " 
and he run out of the door. These men had theirhorses here in town. They took off 
their masks and left them where they had their horses ; but these others were in line 
of battle, waitiug to be called for. By that time the soldiers were coming. The com> 
pany was down toward Whitesburgh. The soldiers came in and caught these men 
with their horses, and put them in the calaboose, and while they were tuere some men 
of the town went in there and turned them all out. That is the truth, before God. I 
wouldn't tell a lie for nothing, for I refused my hat full of money to vote on the other 

Question, Did you know any of these men who fired on you f 

Answer, I know one of the men, sir ; and that is a man by the name of Cox, who 
used to keep a saddler-shop in this town. He was the first man that hailed me at the 
court-house gate. He was a captain — ^we called him Captain Cox — what he was over 
I couldn't tell. 

Qtie$Hon, Had he any disguise on f 

Answer, No, sir ; he was the man that halted me. 

Question, Had any of these men around you disguises 7 

Answer, No, sir; they had taken them off. The men had their horses down by the 
market-house ; and they had formed line of battle, and when the soldiers caught these 
men and shut them up, the men here in town turned them out and gave them their 
horses again. 

Question, How long were you laid up with your wounds T 

Answer. One month, solid, before I got off my back; I couldn't lay on either siie or 
I would die. I had to lie flat on the back all the time, and I had one man bathing my 



Qimtion. Were there many colored people En-El axed that fall of 1868 f 

Anaver, Yes, sir; jost before the election, when the speaking was here for the elec- 

Question, How many colored men were Eu-Eluxed, so far as you have been informed ; 
how many were Tisited or maltreated by the Ku-Elux that fall t 

Antwer. I conldn*t tell yon, but a great many. I couldn't tell you how many. 

QueatUm, Did you hear of many cases f 

Answer. Yes, sir; a great many. While they were speaking here, out at Mr. Hor- 
ton'fl, they were shootinig at the people and they were running across the field. Mr. 
Horton's people will tellyou that now. 

^tea^ian. What do you know of the Eu-Elux taking the colored people's arms f 

Answer. I forgot to tell you they got my gun too. 

Quegtian. Did you never get it back f 

Ansmer. No, sir. 

Quotum. Do you know who took it from you ? 

Ansvcer. No, sir, 

* Question. What was the custom that year as to the Ku-Klax taking from the colored 
people their arms of defense f 

Ansvcer. Well, they took a great many arms from the colored people ; pistols, and 
guns, and I don't luiow what. They told me, " You were a colored soldier?" I said, 
"I was a soldier, and don't deny my name." 

Question. Had you been in the Union Army f 

Answer. Yes, sir; the Forty-fourth Colored Infantry: Colonel Johnson was the 

Question. How long were yon in the Union service f 

Answer. Pretty near three years. 

QuesHon. Was that generally known here among the democrats f 

Answer. Yes, sir; it was generally known. 

Qiuestion. Did they ever throw it up to you or blame you for being in the Union Army ! 

Answer. Not before that night, sir. 

Qiugtion. What did they say that night T 

Afnswer. This man says to me, " You were a colored soldier ; yon was a man that 
fought i^iust your master." I said, " Yes, sir; I was iu the Union Army, and fought 
for my liberty. I was called and I went." 

Question, Have you been living here ever since t 

Answer. I have been living here ever since I was mustered out of the service at 
Nashville, a little over six years. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. You spoke about makiug a speech here at the court-house stex>sT 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was it after the speech that yon got your gun f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Did you come to the meeting first with your gun f 

Answer. No, sir. The Eu-Elux sent word in that they were coming here on Saturday 
m^ht to kill all the colored people and radical white men. The news came in here, 
ri^t here in this court-room. I was sitting right before this stand^ and the man was 
speaking. I said, " If they come and catch us all here they will kdl us." I told the 
people that, right here. In the mean time th^ came running up the steps and said the 
Ka-Alnx was coming, and caught one colored man and scacedhim nearly to death. 
They were comins over Pinhook Bridge. A little more and another man sein, " You 
had better stop ; the Eu-Elux is coming/' and every man went to get a gun to defend 
hinoelf, and I went for my gun. 

QuesU/on. You did not go lor your gun until the Eu-Elux rode into the town f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question, And then you went home to get your gun t 

Answer. Y'ee, sir. 

QuesHon. As you returned you saw the Eu-Elux all about the square T 

Answer. When I returned I came around by the tavern, northwest. The Eu-Elux 
w^« over here at the southeast, and I waited until the last end came to pass, and a 
few more was riding behind, like a rear-guard, and he says, [the witness imitating a 
thin, or treble, disguised voice,] '' What are you going to do with that gnn f " 

Question. Did the colored people who were here that Saturday have their arms before 
t hev heard or saw the Eu-Elux f 

Answer. They might have had them, but I never saw them until that night. 
Qusiion. You did not go for your gun until you had seen them — until it was reported 
tlu^ they were coming to break up the meeting ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; that is true before God. 

Q^ttkn, You spoke of some white people on the outside of the crowd that you were 

44 A 


Answer, Tes, sir ; vhile I was talking to the colored people they made a distarbanoe. 

QwoBiion. They inado a disturbance so yon could not go on f 

Answer. No, sir. They said, *^ Damn bini : every time we have the niggers all right 
here some one comes here and spoils them.'' 

Question. When the meeting was held here and the speaking going on, there were 
white men standing around the crowd who did not come to the speaking, did they f 

Answer, They came to hoar what was going on. 

Quefdion, Did yon hear any firing of guns or pistols until you were shot here at the 
eorner f 

Anstver. No, sir ; none before that ; none before they shot me. I do believe in my own 
soul I was the first one they opened fire on. Right tlien, after they opened fire on me, 
a black man was running across, to get out of the way, to the mayors ofiice, right across 
the street, and they shot him in the back, dead. 

Question. These Ku-Klux down on the square and by the market did not do any 

Answer. No, sir ; not those with the masks on. 

Question. The men that did not have the masks on did the firing f 

Answer. Yt»8,8ir. 

Question, Had they taken off their masks I 

Answer. Ygh, sir ; that is it. They had got off their horses and taken off their masks. 

Question. Thoy had dismounted, and were about the court-house and about the 
streets f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; and one of them was the man who was murdering mo, and at the 
time somebody shot this Cox he hollered out, ** Cease firing, boys ; I am shot." Than 
the Kn-Klux went out of town. These men went for their horses, and the soldiurs 
stopped them at the murket-house. 

Question. How many did the soldiers arrest that night f 

Answe)'. I think it was three. Their horses wore found in the stable. Thoy were •n 
the horses, and thoy took the horses away from them, and they put them in the cala- 
boose, and sumo perple in the town turnotl thorn out. . 

Question. This happened on the Saturday night before General Grant's election t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Where is this Mr. Cox now f 

Anstoer. Ho has gone away from hero. Thoy had him up on security to staa^ He 
stood two courts, but last May he wont away, and when court came on he couldn't be 
found, and I am hero. 

Question. Were any of the colored people killed that night T 

Answer. One was. 

Question. Was Cox the only white man wounded f 

Answer. The only one wounded, and Mr. Thurlow, of Limestone. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Jud^e Thurlow f 
Answer. Yes, sir. He was shot here, below the stomach, and died. 

By Mr. Bucki^y : 

Question. Who was pi*esiding over the meeting before the disturbance f 

Answer. Before the disturbance we went down to Mr. Joseph Bradley and a mmb 
named George Williams, and Mr. Bradley ^said he was crippled and couldu't come down 
to attend. He was )nvaident of the meeting in the day-time. 

Question, You had had a meeting in the duy-tinief 

Answer. Yes, sir; and one at night. I couldn't tell who was president that night. 
When the interruption came up everythin«; went out of my mind. 

[Pending the further examination of this witness the eoniiiiittee mljonmod nntil to- 
morrow, Tuesilay, October 10, lB71,at i) o'clock, when the committee having roasaem- 
bled, the examination of George Uoper was resumed, as follows :] 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question, George, I understood yon to sav last evening, on direct examination, that 
you wore ono of the men making speeches here on the Saturday evening of tho riotf 
^ Answer. I didn't make speeches on that Saturday evening, but beforo that, at tho 
time General Callis and Captain Applegate were running for Congress; that i» tbo 
time I was making speeches. The time when the general speeches were madu hero I 
was listening. 

Question, Did yon not say you were making speeches in the court-house tho ovening 
that the riot tiuik place T « 

Answer. No, sir ; not that night. I said 1 was making speeches here, and tho pcoplo 
owed mo a gnulgo fur tho speech I made to tho colored |>coplo outsido of tho i:ourt> 

Question. That speech had been made nearly a year before^f ®^ ^^ vjvj\^giv^ 


Annoer, It was mode Jnst before Qeneral Callis was elected. 

Quostum. Was he not elected in February, 186tt, in the early part of the yeaxT 

JvMCicr. Well, sir, I could not recollect. 

Queatioiu At the time tbo coustitation of Alabama was voted on? 

Anstcer. Yes, sir ; that is the time I made the speech. 

Quettion, Was not Grant's election iu November, lr^68 1 

Anmcer, Yes, sir ; and that is the time I came and listened. 

Qt^ctlwn, You did not make a speech that day t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Qu4t8ii(m, Nor that night t 

Anstrer, No, sir. 

Qui9tioiu Who was it offered you your hat full of money to vote the democratic 

Answer, Nobody. I told the boys around : " Boys, have good principles; hold your 
head upright, for if I was offered to-day my hat full of money for my principle I 
would not sell it." 

Question. You said : " I wouldn't t«^ll a lie for nothing, for I refused my hat full of 
luoney to vote on the other side." Why did you make that statement yesterday? 

Answer. W^ell, sir, you misunderstood "me fairly. I said to the colored pex)ple that I 
wouldn't take my but full of money — I refused my hat full of mouey — for my prin- 
ciples. Tliat is what I say. You misuuderstood mo entirely, and misunderstood me 
Bo far as to say I made a speech up hero iu the courtroom. I was speaking outside 
the day General Callis and Mr. Applegate was ninning, aud then I said : *' Hold up 
your head, for I wouldn't take it, and I refused my Imt full of money for my prin- 
ciples ;" but no man offered uio that. 

Question. Can you read or write ? ^ 

Answer. No, sir. 
, Questiou. How do you get your information sufficient to be a political teacher? 
' Ansirer. Well, sir, from going and seekiug to God for what little wisdom I have — 
mother's wisdom. I have got no leaniiug. I liavu't learning as much as a school-boy ; 
but seeking 'to God night and day for what little 1 has got, and I wouldn't tell you 
nor no man a lie, for I have been tried ; and the reason I said so was because the boys 
were doubtful, aud didn't know what way they were going: and that is the time my 
mother's wisilom came in and I said: " Boys, come here auil vote the ticket right, for 
this moruin*; I wouldjj't take my hat full of money for my principles." 

Question, m-ing unable to read or write, and having none of the ordinary sources of 
obtaining information, you looked to the Lord for it aud got it ? 

Answa: Yes, sir. 

Question. Tlie LfOrd heard your prayers ? 

Answer. Y<s, sir. I can tell you where Ho fetched me. 

Question. Where? 

Answer, He fetched me from helPs dark door to the marvelous light, so that things I 
thought in sinful days, when I came to t^he light of God I said all that is fallen back 
of me, and now I start myself right before everybody. 

Question, Do you know any other cases of colored people in this land where the 
Lord has instilled political knowledge into them ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. Many has come through the way, and some of them said the Lord 
Bent them to preach the Gospel, but they can't read or write. 

Question. I cau understand how He interferes with preaching, but what object do 
yoa think He had iu interfering with x>olitics, and lilliug your mind with political 

Answer, Because why? I fought for my liberty, and have been all through the 
Army, And what did my captain aud colonel tell me: "George," he said, "the day 
vou are turned of service be right; bo pure to God, and just to all men. Hold up your 
Lead. Touch not aud handle nothiu«j of the unclean thing." 

Question. Do you not think Colonel Callis was the Lord that put the political wis- 
dom in your head ? 

Answer. No, sir, I don't think that Colonel Callis did; but mostly I was with 
Colonel Johnson, that lought our Army. 

Question, Whatever you know outside of what the Lord gave you, you picked up 
from other people's talk ? 

Answer. Not much Irom other people, because they can't learn me ? 

Question. You cau not read or write ? 

Answer. But the pureness of heart must come from God. 

QusBiioH. Other ]H3ople may tell you somechiug. George, what I want to get at is, 
when you were making speeches to your colored brettiren touching the pel. tics of rho 
conutr>', telling how to vote, and the rules upon whicli they ought to act, you 
being unable to read and write yourself, and having noue of the ordinary means of 
infonuatiou, how could you get X)olitical information except from Colonel Callis and 
people like him? ^ 


Ansnci: Colonel Callis never spoke to me about that. 

Question, Yon got it from conversation or spiritual ipfluence, which was it t 

Answer. In regard to what I know as much as I do, I can speak proper, because I am 
a half Indian anyhow and African too. I was following my master all along, and he 
was a groat lawyer ; but I remember one word he told me ; that word will carry me a 
long ways. He says^ ^'A man can get into a good deal of difficulty if he sees the point 
of coming out ; but if he don't see the point of coming out, he ought not to go into 
none," and he says, "George, follow me; look and study yourself, and learn in case you 
&hall want to be in some difficulty how this will come out." From going along through 
court and all, I learned a heap ; oy coming to court with him, I learned a heap of sug- 
gestions for a man to carry himself upright in the world before men. 

Questian. Do you know«that all the testimony you gave yesterday as to the time you 
were shot was of the time of the riot here on the Saturday night before Grant's elec- 
tion t 

Answer. It was. , 

Question. That all occurred in this town and around the square of the court-house, 
where we are sitting f 

Anstcer. Yes, sir. 

Question. All the shooting that took place was here by the court-house ? 

Anmcer. Yes, sir ; right out there by the north gate. 

Qiiestion. Was not the court-house full of people ? 

Auswer. Yes, sir. 

Question. And the yard too T * 

Answer. No, sir; not the yard, but the court-room was full until the alarm came that 
the Ku-Klux were coming, and the word was that they were at Pinhook bridge. I waa 
then sitting in this courtroom, about where you sit, and 

Question. Never mind that ; you will have a chance to tell it all. * 

Answer. When the alarm came they came to the door and said, "The Ku-Klux are 
coming/' It was a strange white nlau that was speaking on the stand : who, I can't 
tell ; and then there came .another word that "the Ku-Klux is coming," and the man 
was still speaking on, and the folks were going out one by one, and at length the last 
word came, " You had better leave, the Ku-Klux is now in town ;" then I got right up 
over there, and said to the speaker, " Don't speak no more, because we can't stay. The 
Ku-Kltix is coming, and maybe might intemipt aa they said" — ^that is, the Ku-KIox 
said. 1 immediately went down stairs, and then all broke up and rushed down the 
8tairs to the place, and we got in the court-house yard, and by that time they were 
going by 3Ir. Ezell's, and I went up this lane and ' 

Question. I do not ask for all that history. The question is, if the court-house was 
not fuU of people ; was there not a large number in it t < 

Answer. Yes, sir ; right smart; but when the Ku-Klux came, a pretty smart share was 
getting out of it. 

Question. Were not Ihe citizens from all around the town here ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. White and black T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. At least to the number of one thousand or fifteen hundred people? 

Answer. A right smart ; I don't know how many. 

Question. It was a great crowd T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was not that matter relative to the riot that ni^t and the shooting all 
investigated by General Ruger, aud the testimony all taken (k>wn f 

Answer. Well, sir, by speaSing, I don't know that of the ordinary speech. 

Question. Did not General Rnger investigate the whole of that trouble here that 
uight t Did you not hear that, at least t 

Answer. I can't tell, for I was shot so bad I was lying down on my back then. 

Question. You know Judge Haralson to be a republican T 

Answer. Yes, sir. ' 

Question, Did not Judge Haralson investigate the whole matter and have it tried 
before the grand jury, and did they not find a large number of indictments before the 
grand jury, and indict you along with the others f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did you not employ Mr. Lowe and Mr. Richardson to defend you f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Who did you employ T 

Answer. I went to them, and Mr. Lowe asked me so much money I hadn't it to pay 
to him. Understand me right, I hadn't the money. I told him, " No, sir ; I havn't 
the money." I says, " I will j^ive it up to the hands of the judge, and let him put some- 
lK)dy to plead the case," and immediately after that I went to see Mi; Humphries, that 
:s now at Washington City. Digitized by VjOOQ 

Question. Judge Iluniphriea* ^ 



JMgwer. Yed, sir. I said "Judge, I havii*t but very small money j none at all ; but if 
you will be a lawyer for me and take my case in your hand, I will pay you what I havo 
and work the balance out.** The judge told me, " Yes, George, I will take it in hand," 
and when they came in here and 1 came to court, they put it off. 

QKtttion, Judge Humphries was your lawyer T 

AnsKtr, Yes, sir, 

(Question. You spoke to these gentlemen first, and Judge Humphries ^as then your 
counsel ? 

Jnwxr. Yes, sir. 

Qiusiwn, Were you not indicted for the murder of Judge Thurlow T 

An^tcer. No, sir. 

Question, What was the indictment against you for t 

Antwer. The indictment was against me because I had a gun iu my hand. 

Question. Were you not indicted for shooting ? 

J9Sicer. I didn't shoot anybody. 

Question. Did you not shoot at Cox T 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Did you not rather brag how you were the man that shot Cox T 

Answer. No, sir; I didn't. 

Question. Never? 

-1 Mirer. No, sir. 

Question. The case, however, you think, was investigated by the military ? 

Austcer. Y'es, sir. 

Question. And then the grand jury investigated it T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. They found indictments, and one against yon along with the others ? 

Answer. YeB, sir. 

Question. And Judge Haralson had it before his court ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. And on the day it occurred large numbers of citizens, white and black, 
republicans and democrats, were all around the court-house square and saw it ? 

Answer. They were around here. 

QuesUqn. They could see it ? 

Answer. Yea, sir. 

Question. Do you understand why yon. a person unable to read and write, and indicted 
as yon. were, should be selected here now after all that investigation, iu preference to 
everybody else to tell this committee what occurred on that night f 

Answer. No, sir ; I can't read or write. 

Question. Do you know any reason why you should be selected to inform Congress 
and the country in relation to that affair, in preference to all the intelligent men of this 

Answer. To tell the truth about it. 

Question. Do you kfiow why you should be selected in preference to everybody else T 

Answer. Well, sir, you are rather high on that ; selected how 1 

Question. Why you were selected or chosen to come here and enlighten Congress and 
the people on that riotf 

Answer. Because I think it stands in need of every man, even you, if you have a 
cluld, and you see he is not going right, to correct him to do right ; and just the same 
Jibe people is not right, and I know a little more than they do, I tell them. 

Question. You think you know a little more than other people f 

Answer. No, sir ; I know a little more of our race, and many of them don't know 
uothing. It is no more than any gentlemam would do, seeing a child in the streets, and 
Tjot knowing its way, would ^o and tell it. 

Question. Was not Mr. Figures here, the editor of your pai>er, who might have been 
tailed f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was not Colonel Nicholas Davis here present at the meeting on that day f 

Answer. Yes, sir, Nick Davis is here. 

QntJfiion. Was not a large number Of very intelligent republicans present at that 
acting — ^white meuT 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Men who could read and write, and advise themselves from the sources of 
iDfivmation from which you were cut off! 

Jii«rfr. Yes, sir. 

Question, Do you think you know as much, or half as much, as they dot 

Answer, No, sir, I don't know half as much about some things. 

Ques^on, On the subject of that riot t 

Answer. No, sir ; but I know so much as this ; that when I was telling these colored 
people, 1 thought it was my duty to tell the colored people the right from the wrong, 
whv, sir, just look. You talk to me of that ; look at last year, how the people was 


enffocaied bero. Everything in tlio world that some of thorn had was brought here to 
the conrt-houso door ; oven the corn and the piece of meat was taken from thorn and 
brought up and sold. Men in the store took everything from them on the Hen of the 
crop, and all through Alabama the colored men were broken up. Men's goods were 
taken and sold that had steers, and cows, and horses, and hogs, and little wagons, and 
big wagons, and mules — all were rolled up hero and sold ; and that was done since 
peac^ and the election. Everything was bought, and they were turned ofiF to the 
grouml again. Then, shall I tell the people to go along, if I have a little more sense 
than they have? 

Qiuxtion, You say this man grappled with you ? 

Auitxter. Yes, sir, and shot me in the head. 

(J>ue8tion. That was at the court-house gate T 

Jnsicer. Yes, sir, as I came into the court-house gate with my gun in my hand. 

Questhn, Was he disguised f 

Atmcer, No, sir. They called him Captain Cox. 

Question, Was any man disguised in the court-house yard T 

Answer. No, sir; all outside. 

Question, Were there any men on horseback, of all the disguised men, who fired h gun, 
BO far as you saw f 

Anstcer, No, sir; because I was so much engaged with fear; and they wero trying to 
kill me, holloing, '^Kill him, kill him, kill him!'' and I had to look at that man, and 
beg him not to kill me. 

Question, The men who were firing in the court-house yard, and about the streets, 
were men who had no dis^ises on T 

Answer, Those that firedon me had none on. 

QiuMion, Did anybody that you saw fire have a disguise on T 

Anmoer, No, sir. 

Question, Then, why did you call them Ku-Klux that did the firing T 

Answer, Because it was one of them that was beating me. The last man that took 
me — I didn't fall dead at the shot, but they took me down to the lower edge of the 
Donne^an Block that was burned then, and chucked me down in a hole, and I cat^hed 
hold ot him, and he fell on me, and I was bleeding like unto death ; and I says, " 1 can't 
hoUo ; you are murdering me." I says, " You shot me enough, and I am bound to die." 
He says, "Yes, God damn you, give mo that gun." I says, **No, I am bound to die 
right now ; let my gun lie by me." 

Question, You have tiold that. 

Answer. But you asked me, and I am obliged to come ont that way, because I can't 
lie. I says, " Look over there ; somebody will come in and catch you directly." He 
looked over, and ho kept beating me with his pistol. I knocked it out of his hand 
with my list, and then put it under me; and he says, "Where's my pistol, God 
damn you T" I says, " Your pistol must have fallen over on the bricks." I said, " Let 
me alone, for you are beatiug me up here, and murdering me; L can't hollo to save 
my life." He jumped up and snatched my gun from me. I says, *^ Look hero 

Question, You have told all that, and if you will ajjree not to go over all that narra- 
tive again, I will agree not to ask you another question. 

Ansua'. I am going to tell it all over^becausel tell you I was treated shameful, as you 
se^. But you asked me about it, and I am one of those men that comes right out, €ro 
through the town and ask here. I am one of those men, as sure as you are born. I 
tell you, as sure as God is over my head, I am not afraid of any but Him in the 

By the Chairman : • 

Question. Were you acquittexi or convicted on that indictment T 
Answer. I left it to the gentlemen hero in the house. 
Question, Wero yon cleared f 
Answer. Yos, sir, I thought so. 

HuNTSViLLB, Alabama, October 10, 187L 
LEONAKD L. WEIK sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman: 
Question. Where do yon livoT 
Answer, In Limestone County. 
Question. How long have you lived there f 

-4 M«icer. AlM>ut eighteen years. r^r\r>.ri\t> 

Question, What otHce do you hold ? Digitized by VjOO^ LL 

Answer. Justice of the peace. 


Qnettion, How loDg have yon held that office t 

Ansicer, I received the appointmeDt under the proTisional gOTeniment--Oor6mor 
PareoDS. I don't think there bos been auy election since, ami I am holding it now 
nnder the appointment of Governor Smith. 

Qarstion, When were you first appointed jastice of the peace t 

An8K>er. In 1865. 

Questum. Are you a native of a northern or a Boutbem State? 

Answer, Tennessee ; a sonthern State. 

Question. I will auk you to state now the partionlars of the outrages said to have been 
committed upon your person, and to commence with the first one. 

Ansiccr, Well, sir, on the 31st day of March last I was attacked and tied by a party 
of eight men, aud taken out at Basham's shop. I was taken to the woods, and stripped 
and whipp€<l. 

Question, Were the men disguised t 

Answer, No, sir; these men were not disguised. 

Qutstion. Did yon know themt 

Anstrer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Please give their names. 

Juncier. Samuel Moore, Frank L. Gibson. William S. Blair, James Bradford. P!nk 
Johnson ; (he goes by that name; I don't know whether his name is Pinkney rightly^ 
<jr not. 1 think it is stated before the court Pink or Pinkney ;) Budd Harlan—he was 
a stranger to me ; he had not been in the neighborhood more than two or three weeks 
—James Kelley. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Quesiion, Was he colored? 
Auswer, Yes, sir. 
Quesiion, Please designate the colored ones. 

Answer, Lewis Bradford 

Question, Colored? 

Anstrer, Yes. sir ; that makes eight, I believe. 

Question, Which were colored ? 

Ansufer. Kelley and Bradford. 

Question, Were there not three colored men ? 

Answer, No, sir ; six white men and two colored. 

By the Chahiman: 

Question. Proceed with your narrative. 

Answer. Well, after the whipping was over, they gave me my orders: first, that if I 
ever divulged the secret of their whipping roe, or gave their names, they would kill 

By Mr. Blckley: 

Queiftion. What did they wliip you with! State the whipping a little inure partic- 

Antica: Well, they whipped mo with hickories from three and a half to four feet 
long, down to, 1 supposo, two feet; some of them were three-quarters of an inch in 
diameter at the butt. Toward the last there was one of them — this man Blair — ho had 
pre|Mired his whip some timo^ before I was tied — twisted hickory withes — and he 
whipped me with that, with the limber end — the tip-end of it. But he turned the 
bnit of it then, toward the last. Ilarlau had a straight hickory switch, not less than 
three aud a half feet long, with three prongs fifteen or eighteen inches long at the tip 
of it. It was about three-quarters of an inch in diameter at the butt, and he used the 
bntt of that on me toward the last. The whipping amounted to this : they made the 
negroes whip me first ; they whipped very lightly and reluctantly, and begged the 
white men to release them from it ; that it seemed to be an unpleasant task; that it 
was not right ; but the white men would order them to whip, aud whip harder. Then 
ihey would strike harder for a few licks, and then ease up. They seemed to get en- 
raged then, and they dismissed the negroes from the whipping, and they let in. There 
wcrofrom three to five, as I could get my head around to see how many were whip- 
ping. 1 eonld not tell the licks that were coming, but there were several at it ; there 
vere three to five at one time struck me. The small part of my back, and my hips, 
were beaten ; the hide was not broken, but beaten so it bled a little, thickened, JelUed, 
and bmisrd ; thickened up as thick as my hand, so I could not sit down easily for 
three weeks. 

By the Chairman: 
Question. About how many strokes were made ? 

Answer. I would say n6t less than three hundred, but I kept no connt^^I do not wish 
^ «aggerate it Digitized by LjOOQIC 

Qneaiion. How long did this whipping continue? ^ 



Answer, That is a pretty hard question t<r answer, under the circumstances ; but not 
less than three-quarters of an hour. 

Question. Did all the white men take a hand at it T 

Answer, No, sir ; this man Moore seemed to be the commander of the concern. He 
stood off some four or five or maybe six feet. I could see his position, standing there. He 
didn't say anything except when they first commenced. I asked them not to strip me, 
and he remarked, " Those clothes have never done any harm. We don't want to hurt 

Question, Moore did not whip you himself I 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, Did all the remaining white men f 

Answer. Tes, air, all the remaimng white men took a hand, first and last^ 

Question. What did they do with you after you were whipped? 

Answer. The first order they cave me was, that if I told on them, if I said anything 
about it to expose them, that they would kill me ; and one party, I think it was John- 
son, said, '* Yes, we will hang you next time. I was looking at a very suitable tree as 
we came along." Bradford remarked, " No, squire, don't you say anything abont it.** 
Says he, "I know more than you do." That was the first order, the killing. The next 
was, that I had to appear at the next circuit court to give evidence against certain par- 
ties that were in jail, the Wisdoms. I told them I appeared there four or five days 
at a former trial, and had never been called upon as a witness, and had given bond and 
been discharged by the commissioners, and that I knew nothing of the case. Gibson 
said, "By G^, we know better. You do know, and you have p:ot to tell it." That was 
all of that order. 

Qtiestion. What prosecution did they refer to where you had been recognized as a 
witness t 

Answer. They referred to some men taken up by Gibson and others, about twelve 
months i^go^nd put in jail, charged with wearing disguises. 

Question, Had you been subpoenaed as a witness for the State in that cose ? t 

Answer, Yes, sir. I attended four days before the jud^ of our county court. I was 
not called then as a witness. Mr. Coleman, who is here in town now, was assistant in 
the prosecution, and he didn't deem my evidence important at all, and I was not called 
upon. I then gave bond for my appearance before the grand jury. 

Question. Ana this man was afraid you would apx)ear as a witness in that case t 

Answer, He wanted me to appear and give evidence against them. I had plead all 
the time that I knew nothing, and had never seen them, which I was ready to swear 
then and now, and that I never saw that party, nor either of the parties who were 
accused, for six weeks prior to the time they were reported to be going in disguise ; I 
was ignorant of that. 

Question, Why was ho anxious tbat you should appear as a witness in that case t 

Ansu)er, I don't know any other cause except that one of the Wisdoms had boarded 
at my house about two months prior to that time. We were friendlyas men could 
be, and, to go into a little private matter, it was thought that Mr. Wisdom and a 
daughter of mine would marry, and they had taken it for granted from these circum- 
stances that I knew all or something of these men's secret movements. I don't know 
any other cause, but that was spoken of as a rumor in the neighborhood, or by these 

Question. I want to know the nature of that prosecution, and why they were anxious 
that you should appear against them as a witness. • 

Answer, They had, from report, been ridiuj^ around— well, I will have to go back of 
that for some two or three months ; yes, I will have to go back further than that 

Question. I will not press that question. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. You need not go back so far ; just go on. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. You were telling of the second order they gave you ; proceed. 

Answer, The next order or condition they put upon me was, that they would hold 
mo responsible for any devilment or mischief chat should be done in that neighborhood 
after that tim&. These were all the conditions that they put on me. Under these oon- 
ditions, knowing the character of the men as well as I did, I didn't feel safe in staying 
at or about home, and I left my home, and left the county. I remained absent for two 
months, and during that time the people had taken hold of this thing and inquired. 
It had got public, and the officers and others about Athens took the matter in hand, 
and had my daughter taken to Athens, and she laid in complaint, and the prosecutioxi 

Question, Before you come to that, you may go back and state what was the cause 
these men alleged at the time they were whipping you. 

Answer. The cause against me started in this way ; I had been at work for this 


William S. Blair for some time, and he had failed to come up to his contract. I was 
workiDg for com on a special contract. I was to have a certain amount of corn in the 
way of my work. 

Question. What was your trade ? 

Answer, Carpenter. He kept dilly-dallying about it, and put *ne off from time to 
time until I became fretted and mad about it, and gave him some pretty sharp words 
about it on several occasions. Meantime, he and this man, Sam Moore, were running a 
distillery. I had got through with his work, and I began to work in the shop, stock- 
log plows and so on, and a good many customers at the shop ; there is a blacksmith, 
shop carried on in connection with my wood- work. The blacksmith was a drinking 
man, and I vas in theTiabit at that time of indulging myself to some extent. Friends 
would come in and I must treat around, and I could get whisky or brandy whenever 
I wanted it. They promised to pay me, and would pay me in that wa^. I saw that 
this was consuming my labor, and nothing was coming in. I told my wife then that I 
wanted her to go to Moore and Blair, and forbid them selling me any whisky. She 
had the right to do that, and I told her to do it. I told her I wanted to get out of that 
thing. She did so. This man Basham, that was carrying on the shop, took pretty 
serious exception to that thing, and made some remarks that were unpleasant, and he 
and I had a falling out. Meantime^ Moore and Blair were mad, and kept getting worse^ 
and I finaUy quit working for them at all. They would keep bringing work to the 
shop-— wagons ; they had wagons ; each, I think had a wagon at the shop for me to 
repair. I would not touch tuem. I just came out square, and told them 1 would not 
work for Moore and Blair any more, but finalljr I did help Basham repair one waffon, but 
I worked for Basham. About the time that it was fimshed Basham and myself had a 
worse falling out, and I moved my tools out of the shop, and moved them up home, and 
got entirely out the shebang, and went on with my work there, and was up there two- 
weeks before the commencement of that difficulty. I was at home about two weeks before 
that. About one week before this abuse took place there was a friend of mine— a neigh- 
bor— who came to me one evening, and said, "Squire, they have got some pretty serions 
charges against you, and if I was i u your place I would leave the country." Isaid, " I shall 
dono such thing. What are the charges f" He up and told me they were circulating the. 
report that I had tried to induce a negro that worked for Blair and Moore to take a 
couple of mules and leave the country, and some other things of a scandalous nature, 
but not so bad as that. I said, *'It is a lie, and you know it is false, and I am not 
going to leave; they can't saddle such a thing on me. If I go away, they will have 
ihe thing Inst as they want it." He insisted that I should leave or I would suffer. I 
did not ask him in wnat way, but I went right straight to investigating the matter. I 
went to old Doctor Blair, the father of Bill Blair, and asked him what he had heard 
about it. It should have emanated from or through him in some way. He had not 
heard anything of the stealing, or my wanting the negro to take the mules and go with 
me anywhere, i)ut that I had merely met the negro somewhere on the road to mill, 
and told him to leave the team and quit working for Bill Blair ; to go along home 
where he belonged. Says I, " It is false ; I have never seen that negro on the road at 
all. I have never seen anything of him. I don't scarcely know him. I have seen him 
a few times about the shop with his wagon." I went then to Moore. He gave out that 
it had come through Sam Moore to him. I went to Moore's house ; he was not at bome.^ 
I lefl; that house and came back to Blair's, and called out William S. Blair to the front 
porch, and asked him about it. The simple charge was that I was meddling with all 
the negroes in the country, trying to get them to leave their employment; " and," says 
he, " it is the prevailing trait of your radicalism." Says I, " It is an Infernal lie, and 
if you repeat that agam, I will give you radicalism right here." Well, we had some 
pretty snort words there, and fmaily cooled down, and I told him, " So far as these 
negroes are concerned, or anything of the sort, I told Jimmy Kelley when he was com- 
plaining at the shop that he could not get to work, that you were not furnishing the 
team according to contract — I told him ho was a fool to stay with you ; that he could 
not make anything ; that nobody else ever did make anything working about Blair, 
and I told him the evidence of it, and referred him to some others." As to this Bedford 
negro, he came in with some complaint one evening in the shop, when I was at work, 
but I told him to go along home. He told me where he lived. 1 told him to go home, 
if he could do better than he could here. Says I, " You can get nothing from Bill Blair 
for working, unless you have better luck than I have had." I had made the same 
remark to this fellow Harlan, and to a man named Hardy Ferguson. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Qu^Um. Were they in Blair's employ T 

Ansicer. Yes, sir. Well, -Ferguson had complained to me several times that he had 
worked up a month and his family was sick, and he was sick most of the time, and he 
eoald not get even meat or bread from Blair for his family. 

By the Chairman : ^.g,.^^, .^ GoOqIc 

Qttfttum, Were these two negroes you gave this advice the same negroes afrorward 
concerned in whipping you ? 


Answer, Yes, sir. 

Queation, Tlicy belonged to Dlair or Bedford, or worked for tUcra? 

Ansxcei'. They were working for Blair and Moore. One was named Bedford and tho 
other named Kelley. When they mot on this evening that I was abnsed, they introdnced 
these negroes as witnesses. They brought up the whole charge of the stealins^; of 
my trying to indnco the negro to steal the mule, and when they got through, I was 
asked if 1 acknowledged or denied it. I said, ** I did neither." Says I, " I will dissect 
the thing, and take what truth there is of it, and the falsehood I will throw aside. 
Whjit I ara guilty of, I am ready to face you in." " No,** the reply was, ** you mast ac- 
knowledge it ajl or deny all." I says, " I can't do either. I will not deny it all or 
;icknowle>lgo all," but I had to do one or the other. I began to suspect that there was 
Trouble ahead, and saw that I bad to do some management as best I could. I would 
waive the matter, and put it all off and try to reason. They, in the meantime, would 
take the negroes olF and consult them and drill them awhile, and back they would 
v'ome with the thing rather modified. I still would not come to the proposition. They 
stuck to theira ; I stuck to mine. Finally, I took Sam Moore to one side, and made 
this remark : " Moore, you have got this thing packed up, and there is no use in my 
saying anything here in this crowd ; of course everybody here now believes I ara guilty, 
and the whole of it is nothing but the personal matter between you and Bill Blair and 
myself, and if yon consider that I have injured yon, I am ready to make acknowledg- 
ment like a gentleman, and if that will not do, 1 am ready to take it out with either 
one of you single-handed." 

Question. At this point, tell the committee how you come to meet this crowd. 

Answer, I met this crowd in answer to a note which is on file in the court of Lime- 
stone County, received from Frank L. Gibson, brought to me by ^ man named Stephon 
FoUis. The noto, I think, read in about these words : 

"L. L. V/EIR, Esq.*: 
"Sir : Wo want to see vou on particular purposes at the shop this evening. 

"March 31, 1871." 

Question. Was it signed by Gibson alone ? 

Ansicer. Yes, sir. 1 responded to that note. When I got there and asked the busi- 
ness, ho wanted me, or pretended that he wanted me, to make him a wagon-bed tho 
Jiext day, Tiiis occurred on Friday, and tho next day was Saturday. Says I, ** If you 
will bring the plank up to my shop, at home, I can make it." Says he, " Can't you 
make it here?" I says, " I reckon not ; I have moved my tools out of Basham's shop 
here, and unless you got the use of the bench from him, I would rather not do it. I 
would rather not work here any way." Ho named it to Basham, and asked him if ho 
would let nio work in tho wagon-shop while he was busy. At that Basham flow off on 
the old fuss between us, and reared around heavy. I didn't want to have any difficulty 
there lor two reasons : first was the crowd there, and the fact that there were marriage 
relations between Basham's family and mine. His son had married my daughter, and 
I thought it was no credit for me and him to quarrel. 

Question. Were all these men there when you responded to that not« and went to see 
Gibson f 

Anstca\ No ; this man Johnson came after I got there. Moore and the negroes catno 
over after I got there, but I have learned subsequently that they had been at the shop 
Ijeforo 1 got there, and had only gone olT a little way. 

Question. Did you go to Gibson^s house t 

Antnccr. No, sir; to Basham's shop. 

Qucullon. Did he really want a wagon-bed made, or was it a pretext ? 

Ansirir. I think it was a pretext. I heard nothing more of tho wagon-bed. 

Qucsiioit. Ktsunio your narrative at the point you left off, when you were called a^ide 
and talked with Moore. 

Ansuer. When I npoko, as I said, that I was ready to make acknowledgments, ho said 
he thoiij_:Ut thut on;^!it to be grantinl; that he was ready to do anything right as a 
Christiii!:. Well, v.luu he mentioned tlio name Christian, it caused mo to rather hang 
my head. '^ 

QuestLii. Wijs ho a nicnilur of x\m cliureli ? 

Ansvci '. No, sir, m.t 1 know of; at least his practices didn't indicate anvthiii^ij 
of the hdit. lie went back to the crowd, and left mo sitting where we had been talk- 
ing. We had talked, I Kupposc, five minutes; may be longer. He went back to tho 
crowd, r.iid ho told me he would see ; he would talk to the other members. I was callv*d 
up to tho tTowd, and they commenced on the old charge. It did not seem that li« hud 
said anU'iing on that point. They commenced where they had left oil'— to know 
whether 1 would acknowledge or deny. Right at about that juncture Bill Biair ap- 
peared wiih that twisted withe in his hand. That gave me some alarm, but wc batter- 
whanged the thing around, and talked about it a few minutes, and a man named 
^cGregor, who was at the shop, oame to me — ^ho got a chance to get a little privatoly 


to me from the others — and ho says, " My mule is tied down there the other side of the 
shop; 1 have loosened the rein over the " — whatever it was she was hitched to—" and," 
says lie, ** you go to her and cet away from here, or you are going to suffer in the flesh." 
I was well acqiukinted with him, and addressed him familiarly: says I, "Mack, I would 
not leave here to save every one of their lives. I am satisfied I am going to suffer ; that 
ia what they want. They want to convict mo and havo things their own way, and I 
will die here but I will see it out here." 

Question, I understand, then, that the charges they preferred against yon were not 

Anstcer, Not true any further than I have stilted here. They were wholly untrue. 
There is not a man of my acquaintance in Limestone County, that is not prejudiced, 
who believes it. The pnemies didn't believe it. I think I can prove it by one of these 
Heroes. He has acknowledged since that these tales were fixed up by Gibson and 
Bill Blair, and he was forced to tell them. 

i^nestion. Was it at the conclusion of the whipping that Blair made the remark to you 
that it was the prevailing trait of your radicalism to interfere with negroes t 

Answer, That was at a private interview between Blair and me. 

Question, After you had been whipped f 

Answer, No, sir ; a week l»efore. That was at the time I had started around to 
investigate how they had started the tale on mo of this stealing. I wanted to get at 
the bottom of it. 

Question. Were you a republican then t 

Answer, Yes, sir. I was a Union man during tlfb war, and a republican since ; niok- 
oamed or generally called a radical, a name which was not in very good repute in my 
neighborhood. I will state further, in my district there is a voting strength, I think, 
of one hundred and thirty now for the last two years, and I am the only man that votes 
that ticket at that box. 

Question, What were the politics of Moore, Gibson, Blair, Bradford, Johnson, and 
Harlan, the whit^ men t 

Answer. They claimed to be democrats, or gloried in the name of rebel. They 
belonged to the democratic party. 

Question. During the time you were being whipped, was anything said about your 
politics ? 

Ansirer. Johnson remarked this, " We will give you negro equality." I will state here 
what 1 don't believe I have stated yet : that they made the negro Kelley tie me. Ho 
approached me with a leather strap. I happened at the time to be standing in the yard 
of the shop, outside of the bailding, and the party or crowd was in the shop drinking 
whisky or brandy or something. I had quit drinking some two weeks before that time, 
tnd have not drank any since. I did not partake of any with them. When he told me 
fbejr said ho must tie me, I said, "Jim, you must not do it." He said, " I don't want to 
do it." They came out of the shop, and ordered him to tie me. He said, " Gentlemen, 
some of you gentlemen tie this man ; it is not right for a negro to tie a white man. It is 
something I am not used to." They formed a ring around me. Gibson appeared in front 
of me with a piece of split wood about two and a half feet lonjj, rather broader one way 
than it was thick the other. I did not notice its size very much, but I suppose, from tho 
size of the other pieces in the yard, it was about an inch and a half, and with tho 8|ick 
in his hand ho ordered tho negro to tie me. Whether be got in that position to enforce 
obedience by the negro or not I do not know, but I took it to myself, crossed my hands, 
and was tie<l. 

Question. You say these two negroes, Kelley and Bedford, worked for Maore and 
Blair t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. How did they vote t 

Answer, I do not know. I never meddled with them. 

Question. What is your opinion as to whether these negroes acted voluntarily or 
nnder compulsion ? 

Answer. They acted under compulsion ; I am clearly of that opinion ; and here I wish 
to make one other remark in a political way, and after that I do not wish to have any- 
thing more to say or do with politics. These parties made use of political prejudice, I 
think ; I am satisfied that Blair and Moore took advantage of political prejudice to 
earry out what they lacked the moral courage to do themselvee. 

Question. Did 1 understand you to say that you were the oply man in that precinct 
who voted the republican ticket T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was it cast up to you in an odious way that you were a radical ? 

Answer. Not on that day. 

QursUon. But before that t 

Answer, Blair had thrown it up to me before that, on this occasion I speak of. 

Question. Were any of these men owners of property who were concerned inwhip- 
ptng yout 


Answer, Gibson owned some property, if it was paid for. He was living on property 
he had bought. My understanding is that he was involved in debt, and was owing for 
the land so long that he was really not worth anything. The others , all of them, except 
Blair, belonged to rather the migratory or transient class of people. They had not 
been in the country more than two years ; some not that long. They were strangers. 

Question. Blair owned a distillery ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. Had 3Ioore lived there very long t 

Answer. Not in that neighborhood. He was perhaps raised in the northeast portion 
of the county, but he bad not been in the neighborhood exceeding fifteen or eighteen 
months at that time. I think he came into tht^t neighborhood about the first of Janu- 
ary before. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. He was interested with Blair in the distillery ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was it a licensed distillery, or an illicit one f 

Answer. I think it was illicit. It has been proven so and torn down by the marshal, 
or by his orders, within the last two weeks. 

Question. What did they distill ; fruit or grain ? 

Answer. Fruit and grain both. 

Question. How much did they turn out a week f 

Answer. 1 am not able to say. I never paid any attention to the man. I left a short 
time after they commenced distilling. They had been distilling fruit for several years 
at the same place. Thoy commenced distilling grain last spring, and had not made 
but two or three runs when I left the neighborhood. I learned subsequently that they 
failed in getting grain, and did not run more than perhaps half the time during the 
summer ; but I was not there to know. That is the general account. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. The still has now been seized t 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

By the Chauimax : 

Question. You may now resume your narrative at the point where you stated that 
your daughter had made an affidavit. 

Answer. Well, after I had left home, this whole transaction got out to the public. It 
seemed to have been told by themselves. When I left home, I had laid in the woods 
the Friday night after I was abused. I staid in the house all day, and laid abed 
pretty much all Saturday following, and Saturday night I went to the woods. On Sun- 
day morning I concluded to go across the river, into another county. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. What river ? 

^swer. Elk River. I went to a friend of mine there, and knocked around during 
Sunday. I made an arrangement before I left home in the morning, with my daugh- 
ter, for her or my son to meet me on the bank of the river. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. At this point, state who composed your family ? 

Answer.^ly wife, and daughter that is grown, and five children, from fourteen years 
old down — boys and girls. 

Question. Proceed with your narrative. 

Answer. I made this arrangement with my family, my daughter, particularly, for her 
to meet me at the river, and if they got any items or anything prejudicial, to meet me 
on the bank and let me know it, and I would not cross. I would still stay on that side 
and see how matters were going on. I was very much cowed. All my expectation 
was to leave the country and get my family away. They met me, according to ap- 
pointment, about sundown, and brought my clothes, with a report that they had seen 
my son-in-law. He had heard of it, and had come to see me, and he had noted certain 
riding about — the movements of certain parties on Saturday night before — and was 
fearful that there was something further in contemplation ; and the request of my 
family was for me to get away. 1 took my clothes and staid iu the neighborhood on 
the opposite side of Elk River from home, and on Monday morning I bought a canoe 
and put off. I went out of Elk River to the Tennessee, and through to Courtland, on 
the Charleston and Memphis road, and took the train from there to Mississippi. 

Question. This occurrence was in Limestone County ? 

Ansicer. Yes, sir; the occurrence was all in Limestone County. During my absence 
I received a letter from my wife, stating she had received my letters, and stating, fur- 


tJicr, that she had written tome once before, but the outlaws had ^ol 1j< r kttor that, 
she had intended for me ; also, in the same letter she stated that th»>y had made a raid 
npoD her or upon the house — some ten or twelve — aud she had idontificd a portion of 
tbem. They bad abused her in language. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

(hiaiiiofi. Were they in disgaise T 

Jinrer. No, sir ; not in disguise. Those that came in the boose were not in disguise, 
aod flbe knew them. Of those out of doors, a part of them would talk at a time in a 
disKoised voice. 

(^teaiwiu Was it in the night-time ? 

Angwer, It was about an hour before day, or an honr aiul a half, or longer, when 
they cjme to the house. They pretended to be hunting disguises, and searched the 
booae from floor to garret, and under the floor, and had the children all to get out of 
the beds, ao that they could turn them up ; and accused my wife of wearing disguises, 
ud went on at a pretty large rate ; and hnally after they gave up searching, they went 
m£o tlie yard. 8he was watching them, and she could see the bulk, and was satisfied 
thit there was ten or twelve of them. They had told her, in the mean time, that they 
were in a bad scrape. My daughter had recognized a part of them as being the samo 
party that had whipped me, and had charged them with it ; and this Johnson said, 
''We are in a bad scrape, and we are going to get out, and J will give you to under- 
dentand we are not atraid of the law ; we have a law of our own/' And when they 
;^Te my wife the order that she had to leave in ten days, she told them very promptly 
^ woald not do it; that that was her home; that her husband, whom they nad 
abased and driven from the country, had paid for it for her, and she was going to die 
oefore she would leave it. They told her if she did not leave they would give lier and 
Ftony, that is my daughter, tlu'ee times a day what thev had given old L. L. Well, 
tt»t occurrence got out. My wife had written me this ; that this ontrage had got out, 
ad the people bad taken hold of it. At that point, my daoghter was sent for to town, 
ud the Mend that brooght her to town took by-ways. He was afraid for his own 

By the Chairman: 
QutMion. What town f Athens f 
Au^rrr. The county seat of Limestone. 

By Mr. Buckley: 

Qumtion, How far did you live from Athens T 

Amncer. About eleven miles. The good people, my old neighbors, were intimidated, 
ttd were actually afraid to, come out openly and defend my wife, but, through good 
mm^Eement, tins friend brought my daughter to Athens, and there she made her 
complaint. Warrants were immediately issued, and the parties were all arrested, ex- 
cept two, who are running at large yet. The case is progressing. It has been put off 
from time to time. 

By the Chaibman : " • % 

Q^fgtion, Were you bound over to appear against these men ? 

Auvfr, Yes, si?. 

Qturtwm. Who was your surety T 

Antwtr, Let me se e 

QruttUm, Was the sheriff ? 

i»«Ffr. The sheriff was one. f 

QitaiUm. I do not care about the others. 

Antwerp It was a ^ood bond. 

Qiesticm. When did you come back f 

Amvtr, I came back just two months from the time I left home, or within a day or 
tVDof that. I came back about the Ist of June. I left the Ist or 3d of April, and I 
tMnk it was the 2d or 3d of June that I got home. 

Qui^on. In Jane lastf 

Auiter, Yes, sir. When at home it alarmed my wife to see me. She was very much 
^ted, fearing that these parties would find out that I was home. A neighbors little 
^gbter hapx>ened to come on some errand after breakfast, and went home and told 
a» parents, who were all my friends, of it. The lady of the house, came right straight 
^aeeme, and would not give me any rest at all. She and my wife both beset me to 
Ro right across Elk River, in the neij^hborhood of Lentzville, and stay there — about 
two miles from where I live. They said they did not consider me safe where I was. 1 
▼ent over in the neighborhood, and went to the sheriff, Mr. Lentz. That was on Sat- 
Qidty, and my wife came over the next day, and we staid there until Monday, and I 
tame over to Athens in company with them. Well, it was managed very well in get- 
^ op witnesses. A good many had developed themselves ; had voluntarily ooms 


forward and told what they knew — my *old neighbors— and thev had evidence sofiQcient 
to convict tliese parties without my presence. On the Ist of June I was at Athens, 
and I went back then into Colbert County to my work. In abont two weeks I was 
taken sick and returned home. From that tima 1 was in the neighborhood, working 
most of the time for Squire Lentz, the sheriff, up to the lOth of September. During 
the time when I would go home I would lie in the woods. I never slept in my own 

By Mr. Buckley: 

Qxu'Htifm, You would lie out at night, you mean f 

Ansicer, Yes, fiir. Wo bad discovered, in the mean time, that these parties were 
watching for me. We had pretty good evidence of it; enough to keep mo on my 
guard. 1 hardly ever went the same route backwards and forwards twice. I woold 
rarely go back the same way I came, but would go through the woods by byways. I 
eluded them. I had learned that they were watching for mo. I eluded their vigilance 
up to the 10th of September. I believe that that is about all I have to state now of 
the old case. 

By the Chairman : 

Quesiion, You may now give the committee the particulars of the second time you 
were visited. 

Aneiccr, Well, sir, Sunday, the 10th of September, of the present year, I had rotumod 
from Mr. Lentz's, whore I was at work, at about ton o'clock. 

Qneaiion, Teu o'clock in the raoruiugt 

Jnstocr. In the morning. My wife wjis commencing to tell me of the discoveries and 
items they had gathered in the last three or four days, of strange parties iu tho neigh- 
borhood, and certain movements. I think maybe this had consumed about t43n min- 
utes of time. 1 was about to ask her to give mo somo water, to let me Hhavo and put 
on clean clothes, and I would go back to tho other nidc of the river. She was sitting 
nearer tho door than 1 was, and happening to turn her head she cried, "La! there are 
disguised men iu the yard." I jumped up and ainied to t^et out of tho back of the 
house. 1 thought I woiild make a run of it and get out back by the woods. 1 saw the 
glimpse of a man where I aimed to get out. I turned back and suatched an old mus- 
ket in the houHC that I hnd had loaded. I did not know whether it was loaded at that 
time or not. I snalched it and happtfued to look and there was no cap on it. I rcrx)l- 
lected a cap in my vest po(!kot. 1 snaiched that and put it on, and came to tho front 
door. It was all tho work of a moment— just as cpiick as it could be done. 1 did not 
see them, only the two at tho gate. 1 did not seo any one in tho yard. I heard the 
tramp of feet at the back door and then there were three in the door with their pistols 
leveled on me as they were all 4X)niing iu. 1 just set the gun down and they i-ushed on 
and gathered hold of mo and ruKhotl mo right oil'. Thero were five of the disguised 
party that I saw. They pushed mo and kept mo iu a run tor about two hundrcti yards 
irom the house, and they then put mo upon a horse behind one of tho men who went 
ahead, in front, ayd went olf in a great hurry. My daughter and one son had left the 
houbo just a few minutes after 1 had got home, going out where they knew of some 
grapi s, or may he a peach treo in some old Held to get some, and they had got some 
tllfee hundred yards fi*om tho houso when they heard tho alarm their mother gave, or 
scream, when I was taken. Tho youngest one got a glimpse of the party, anil came 
across tho uij;h way and intercepted them, and she said there was one man iu tlio crowd 
who w:is not disguised. Sim said there was six or eight in tho bunch, and one was not 
disguised, ami ho kept motioning a piotol at her. I dul not seo but livo. My position 
was such when I saw them that I had not a chance to see mora than the five. 

Qaeaiioli, Wero they all disguised f 

Anitwei\ Yes. sir; all that 1 saw were. 

Question, Will you please describe their T 

AiMWcr. It was red and blue, tho best I could see was, and their faces were covered. 
I bad no time for taking a minute observation. It was rod and blue, mi<l maybe 
some white miiced up. 

Question, \ )id they all havo horses f 

A usiccr. Yes, sir. 

Question. Were the horses disguised f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; some were, I know, and some, I think, wero not. I was in my shirt 
•lecves and bareheaded when they took mo oil*. 

Question, Mounted behind a disguised man f 

Ansiccv, Yes, sir. lie rode iu front until they got abont a mile from homo. They 
■top|K*d there, and they put a bandage uroun<l my eyes, of a handkerchief, or something 
he lolde<l up aud lied around my eye^. They tietl my hands behind me, and then they 
put the head covering— I believe it is calle<l th^; hood of a horse-covermg— turning it 
right over my head and shouhWrs, and it was f^teued in some way to my haucLi be- 
hind ; but the great bulk ol it hung doAU to near my waist. When Uiey startod with 


mo from there I was entirely blind from the bandage aronnd my eyes, but I conid tell 
tbey were riding in a circle, and after a while they strnck a road, and by this time they 
bad mo bewildered as to locality, bat I could tell by the horses' feet that they were in 
a road or open jp*ound. There were no leaves under the horses' feet, and I could tell 
tbat it was open ground that they were on. This bandage came out or slipped down 
off of my c^yes. It worked down. It did not stay very long. Then 1 had the light, 
bat only the light as if through a very thick canvas or very heavy domestic. I could 
then tell the course they were traveling, mainly by the sun. They traveled generally 
Id a southern course, but I was so badly bewildered by this time (hat I did not know 
anything abont the locality. Occasionally they would stop and circle. They went on 
in that way, I think, until near 12 o'clock. I think it was well on to an hour or an 
hour and a'half or longer. All that was sometimes in the woods and sometimes in open 
spaces of road, and they stopped and rode off; they had been traveling in a road 
for some distance, but they turned into the woods and rode into the woods apiece, and 
stopped and dismounted. I was taken otl* of the horse, and there were two of the party 
rodo off. I did not think from the sound of the horses' feet that the party had increased 
from the time they had left my house up to that time. After standing in that posi- 
tion, blindfolded and suffering, for it was terribly warm, and I was suffering with thirst, 
and almost suffocatcil, I had to lean over in front, in this way, [illustrating, J to keep the 
hood so I conld get air. If I sat straight it came down to my face. 1 eouhl hear by 
the voices that there were three there. There may have been more, but I was certain 
of three distinct voices, though they talked in thuir disguised tone. After a while I 
asked them, " Men, what do you design doing with mo fit" you intend to kill me, which 
1 believe you are going to do, I want to know it." The reply was, *' Wo can't answer 
no questions." They talked on among themselves for a while, and at that time 1 dis- 
covered or detected the voice of Sam Moore, speaking in an undertone. After a while 
one of the party came up and stood behind nic, and says, *'My friend, I can say one 
thing to you : if you have any x)reparati()n8 to make for death, it is time you were at it. 
You iiave but a short time to live." I said, *' Just abont as I expected, and I would 
like to have some writing materials, so that I can write a little n<»tetoa friend. There 
iflsomo business I have on hand that is entirely unsatisfactorily arranged, an<l I would 
like to write to him." They told me I should have it. After a while the crowd came 
back — or there was a crowd came back — 1 could hear the hoi-ses' feet, and there was a 
great deal of talking, and the question was iisked, '* Who have you got there!" and 
the answer was, "Weir." ** What," says one, *' the old Squire!" " Yes." Well, they 
counseled, and went on for some time, and, tinally, there was a pencil and a scrap of 
paper procured for me, and I was led off" perhaps Rome twenty steps— 1 judge about 
that far — behind a tree, and the blindfold taken oft'. I had a line pair of spectiicles 
they bad taken off of my eyes, when they fust blindfolded me, that they now handed 
back forme to put on, in order to write. I was guarded at that time by two men ; 
both had on disguises, but the face of ono was naked. lie was a man I did not know. 
I did not recognize him at that time, but I finally found him out before I got shut of 

Question. Who was he ? , 

Ansfcer. A man by the name of Boyce. Y'ou will learn after a while how I det-ected 
him. 1 wrote a note to Squire Lentz, the sheriff, stating to him that I hml been cap- 
tared, and had but a short time to livo ; that my doom was sealed, and I wanted 
him to do so and so in such matters, and to take cai*e of my children. Woll, when I 
eot that through — got done writing — I gave it to them. They promised me very faith- 
fully that it should be carried and delivered to Mr. Lentz. The blindfold was put on 
zne,aud 1 was led bock and stopped right at a halter-chain and roj)e that wju* right at 
my ffict. 1 could only see a circle of eighteen inches or two feet around my feet. They 
might have had a design in stopping me there. At any rat-e 1 stopped, and there was a 
rope and hnlter-chuin living there; and they talked among themselves all this time, of 
wmcb^ understood but little. At this time 1 detected Johnson's voice, and Gibson's. 
I was asked by some one of the party in which way I preferred to die, by hangiug or 
shooting. Bays I, "It is not for me to make the choice, but if you intend my family 
to get my body to bury I do not want it mangled or bloodied up by beingshot : I don't 
vant them to see any blood." Then the rope was put around my neck and tue remi- 
lar banging knot tied. I exi)ected then to go right up there; I had no other calciua- 
tion. lliey kept' counseling and iooling about, and fmally I was jtut up behind ono of 
the party and away they went. They were sometimes in the woods and sometimes in 
the open gi'ound, and from the tranqnng of the hoi-ses' feet I footetl up that there were 
twelve or fifteen in the crowd, from the noihe. Well, they kept (|Uestioning me a great 
deal about the old dilficulty, and tisked me it' I knew any of them, and I denied know- 
uaff any of them. 1 knew one of the men who asked these questions just as well as if 
I ua<l been standing right before his face. 

(^tuitiou You were not entirely candid in your answers to these gentlemen ! 

^aatrcr. Ko; 1 was using a little policy. Whilo going on in that way I <liscoverod 
that a portion of tho crowd had sloughed off; they seemed to bo leaving and going o^ 


in anotbev direction. That led uie to believe, from the noise aroaud me, that there 
was not more than five or six men with me. One of the party asked another, "How 
many boys went around the other way!" and the answer was, "Nine." Along in this 
time this man I was riding behind told me he lived thirty-five miles from that place in 
Tennessee, and all lived up there about that far ; and that "they came down to settle 
this business, this difficulty you have got these boys into. There are none of these 
men yon had this difficulty with, or this lawing with, in this crowd. Do you think 
there is t " I said, " No, I reckon not." He says, " I know they are not, for I know 
there are some of them have sick families at home that they can't leave." I said, "It 
would have been a fine thing for me, I guess, if you had all had sick families." Now I 
had not had any \rater all day.^ Finally we came to a spring. They had plentjr of 
brandy during the day, and were drinking, and offered it to me, and on two occasions 
I had taken a mouthml of brandy to quench the thirst. I would hold it in my month 
and spit it out to quench the thirst. They would abuse me and tantalize me for spitting 
it out. Finally we got to water. It was now getting towards evening. I was almost 
famished. They got a bottle of water at the spring and gave me wat^r. They had to 
raise the hood up so I could get the bottle to my head to drink, and I saw the spring 
and knew it. It was what we called Dripping Spring. I had only a glance around it, 
lind I could not tell how we had come intjp it. 

Question. How far from this spring is your house ? 

Answer. Four miles and a half; I think about that ; it is that far on a straight line, 
and by the traveled road it would be five miles, I think. They passed on further, 
winding and turning about, but still, I thought, kept pretty generally in a southwest 
direction, from the force of the sunlight on this blind. 

Qitestian. Traveling through the woods T 

Answer. Yes, sir, woods and occasionally open spaces, but mostly through woods, and 
I discovered briars and vines, and in- some places it was pretty dimcnlt to get through. 
At length there was a halt. I heard Sam Moore remark—it seemed like they had just 
met ; tiiat was the impression on my mind ; that they met some other party at the 
halt : I put it up in my mind that it was the same party that had made off before — 
nnd Sam Moore remarked in his natural voice, " It is decided." There seemed to be an 
Mgreement, or an amen, to that. He rode on a piece, and the remark was made, 
** Here's about as good a limb aa we will find." They dismounted, two or three of them, 
and I was taken down off of the horse and led a few feet, and as I was led off I rather 
] an aj^ainst the tree. I discovered there was a tree there. I could hear some one 
< limbing it, and the rope was taken up, and I was hoisted from the ground ; I don't 
know how high. I was hoisted right up. The first thing T knew after feeling myself 
;;o up, I was on i^ back on the ground, and some one of the crowd was in me act of 
helping me up. He had rather run his hand under my shoulder and was helping me 
Tip, and I thought that he slackened the rope there. 

Qaeation. Was it a regular slipping noose T 

Anstcer. Yes, sir, it was a regular nangman's knot, fixed so as to draw tight — a slip- 

Question. Did jouf become unconscious after being drawn up ? 

Answer. Yes, sir, for I know nothing of the falling. I must have fallen. The lopo 
evidently broke, for I was lying on my back at the first conscioiisness. After I ielti 
myself go up, I was sensible of a choking sensation for a short time, but the neoct thing 
I knew I was lying on my back and this man in the act of helping me np. They 
appeared to get into a Jaw among themselves, and disagreed among themselves, and 
jawed a good deaL One wanted to and another would not, and at ^t one swore he 
would leave, ancL I think, got on his hoi*se from the movements I could hear. About 
this time, or while this was going on, this man that raised me up had never taken bis 
hands off of me, and he whi8X)er5l to me, " They will not hang you if I can help, it 
I will save you if I can." 

Question. Did you know the voice T 

Anstcer. No, sir: I know nothing of that voice. They continued to jaw on for som« 
time. At length I was led up to a tree, I think a different tree ; I could not tell, but it 
appeared from my movements like it was a few feet from it, and the rope was drawt 
that time until it was very tight, but I was not taken off of the ground. 

Question. Did you lose consciousness ? 

Answer, No, sir, not at that time. I had lost my consciousness the first time, but nos 
in the second time. They didn't tighten the rope enough to take me from the ground. 
The;^ quit then, and I was put on the horse with the same man that had hold of me. 

' and locate 
1 remarked, 

^ I could toe 

the opening of the nver, but it was a dense thicket of undergrowth and stuff, and I 
could not reco^ize the locality. When it was raised up, I could see that the man I 
was riding behind was in di^uise, and I didn't think his size suited for either of the 
n I recognized the voice o^ I knew it was not Gibson, for he was at my left. 


Queslum. Was this the same man who whispered to you that they should not haug 
you if he could help it ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I am satisfied, because he led me right up to his horse and mounted, 
and told them to put me up behind him. After they had snowed me where 1 was, or 
gave me the privilege of looking at the river, the blind was put down again and away 
they went. I did not get a chance to look around to see how many there were in the 
crowd. We came to some water and crossed ; I could hear from the talk and tho 
drifting about that it was a difficult place to cross at, and some were directing to one 
point and some to another. Finally, I and the man I was riding behind, had both to 
get down. The bank coming down on the opposite side was steep, and he said his 
horse could not get uji. We got down. My hands were tied and he remarked I 
coold not stay behind him and get up this bauk with my hands tied ; I had no way of 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Quesiiofi. Tho bank was so steep t 

Jntncer. Yes, sir ; and he led me across that place. By leaning over and looking, I 
could hear there was a little water. There were a good many old logs, and I guessed 
the place to be a certain slough, that makes out from the Tennessee River, and dries 
op sometimes — an old slough. I was pretty certain that we were traveling down the 
river and crossing that slough. We finally got across it, and I was put up behind the 
man again. I do not know whether it was the same man or another. They were 
talking about shifting. Directly afterwards, they got into the worst thicket J think 
any set of men ever got in — vines, and canes, aid everything of tho sort — and I was 
dragged off of the horse, going up a steep place, by vines or something. At this time, 
while in the thicket, I heard the name of Smith called three different times. I heard 
the name of Bradlbrd called twice. When I was dragged off the liorsc this man 
called for some one to come and put me up. They came and took hold of me very 
ro^hly, and would throw me about half way up and let me fall back, and a man said 
to Frank : " Don't be so rough," and Frank Gibson replied, in his natural voice, that ho 
didn't care. I was put on and we went on, and we struck an open field. From the 
dough; I judged it to be a certain field on a large island in tho Tennessee River. They 
stopped just after we got into that open space, and I was under the impression that 
apart of the crowd turned back and left them. After that I could not hear so many 
horaes* feet. Shortly after that, or about that time, one of the party told me, "Wo 
have twelve men at your house, to guard it, so that no news will get out from it," and 
he called to Frank, "Wasn't it twelve t" and he says, "No; it was eleven. It was 
within one of it." That was the reply made by Frank Gibson. Finally they stopped, 
and all got d6wn, and Frank Gibson remarked, " Here's the place. Let him see where 
he is." They let mo down, after they got off. They led me a few steps forward, and 
when they took off the hood I discovered that I was on the bank of the Tennessee River. 
They began to discuss among themselves now who was going to do the work. Thoy 
all appeared to be unwilling; at last Johnson said, '* I will do it. I can manage him," 
and he stripped off and went into the river. While he was stripping off, one of tho 
l>arty put the bandage back on my eyes, and tied it very tight, and they took a wisp 
of leaves. One suggested to daub my eyes up with mud. Another suggested, " No: 
that will wash out." But they put in a' wisp of leaves over the balls of my eye«, and 
tightened the bandage. Johnson walked out and ordered mo to follow. I blundered 
in. There were logs there, and it was muddy right at tho bank. It was with great 
ditBcolty that I could keep from falling down, i staggered in. I didn't know which 
course to go, and he kept calling to me, but I never could locate a noise right close to 
me, and when I would think I was going to him I would bo wrong, and he ordered me 
bow to go. Finally he came up and caught hold qf me. I reckon I was going down 
stream by the way he turned me and led me off into the river a piece, and at length ho 
hollered, "Some more of you come in." They stripped off, and two came in. They 
commenced ducking me. They would stoop down and catch mo. It was about waist 
deep of water. They would catch me under the crotch, and hoist me, and throw mo 
under head foremost- My hands were tied behind me ; sometimes I would recover my 
breath; sometimes they would assist me. As quick as I could get a breath, under I 
would go again. After that had been done about a dozen times this bandage came off 
of my eyes, and I looked around every opportunity I had when I was up. They called 
Frank Gibson to come in. Johnson was in there, and a couple of other men who were 
strangers to me, or passed themselves off and aimed to be. One was really a stranger ; 
one they kept calling George, and I kept looking at him every chance I had. They 
<*alled him George, and fintdiy I located him, ancf eventually became certain that I was 
right, and knew I could not be mistaken. 
Qwcition, Who was ho t 

Amtwer, George Peace. I had seen him frequently, formerly, but had not seen him 
for about two years. They got Frank Gibson in ; Sam Moore was standing on tlio 
honk with his disguise on, but with his face naked. He had his suit and blouse and 

45 A 


pants oni The otbers had stripped off their dis^iscs and clothing on the bank and 
came into the river naked. Well, four of them started in then , and they would play leap- 
frog with me, sonzing mo ahder and choking me and running and jumping; over 
me as wo used to do as boys playing in the water. One would turn me under and they 
would go under and over me. They enjoyed this hugely ; my hands were tied behind 
me and I had to bear it. Gibson would throw me under and say, " How do you like 
the commissioners' court T How will that do for a commissioners' court f" tantalising 
me repeatedly. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. What did he refer tot 

Answer, That needs an explanation that ought to have come in before. 

QiLcstion. Perhaps you had better go on with your narrative and make the explana- 
tion afterward. 

Anstoer, They went on with that until they discovered that it was pretty cold. They 
were cooling down ; their brandy had given out. I was not cold. The exercise waa 
so great and my clothes were on ; I would have been sweating if the water had not 
kept it down. They worked at that until they got tired, or seemed to be. One said 
**This won't do; we mast tiuish it." Ho led me out to the bank and looked at some 
limbs and said, " This will do," or ** That will doj" and they pitched up the rope they 
had had previously and put it aronud my neck and went out in the river again« As 
they ducked me undtT wlien I would attempt to recover, the fellow with the rope would 
keep jerking it and keep me on my back.* I had learned when a boy to hold my hands 
across under my back and float. I attempted several times to get to my feet and thev 
jerked me back and I just eased off to floating and they would keep jerking me aroond. 
Finally, the rope by repeated jerks got so tight that I choked dow^j and could not get 
my breath, and sunk. They took me up and set me on my feet. 

Question, Was the rope around your neck t 

Anstccr, Yes. sir ; and choked me until I was not able to help myself in the water ; 
then they slackened the rope, or slackened the knot, so I could get breath, and then 
grabbled in the water, in the bottom of the river, and got up some rocks — I think 
about twenty-pound rocks. I am a pretty good judge of water, for I have fished a 
great deal. They tied these rocks with a rope as close as they could get to my neck, 
and then the question was, who would go out with me. It was put upon Johnson and 
Peace, that they should tako me out and finish. Gibson remarked, " When you are 
done with him, and he is drowned, tie the rope to that snag, so that when he rises he 
will pot float off." They took me out about fifty yards ; at the point where they 
stopped the water was about to the waist-band of my pants, a little deeper than it was 
beiore. One got on each side of me, and they put nie to the bottom, sunk me to the 
bottom, and held me there. Well, I just gave up ; I reflected this is the last ; I was 
out of breath. As I strangled and caught my breath, they raised me to the top and 
took the rocks loose and led me back to the bank. Sam Moore was sitting there, and 
told me to take a seat by him. I sat down pretty close to him. Ho said, " Sqaire»| 
when I started out this morning I meant to do just what I told you last spring I woulci 
do ; but I have concluded to spare your life, and I had hard work to do so. I thoughl 
I would spare your life, though, thinking you might be useful." What ho meant bjp 
that remark I don't know, and I have never been able to make that out. " Well," eayi^ 
I, ** a man in my condition will accept almost any terms to save his life." Says h6 
** We are going to keep you a close prisoner until after court, and you have got to kee| 
your daughter Fannie and your son John a^ay from court." And another one of tin 
party, I don't remember which, remarked, " And other witnesses." " No," says Moor4 
** them three will be enough ; we can manage the balance, and," says he, "if FannI 
and John appear at that court we will kill you certain, and if ever you tell anytfainf 
that ha« been done to-day we will kill you ; do you mark that t" I agreed to it. Gilj 
son and Johnson immediately commenced putting on their clothes about this time ani 
gathering up their disguises ; they didn't put them on any more, I think. One of then 
took the hood I had been blindfolded with off with him, and left Moore and these twt 
men that were apparent strangers with me. By this time it was after sundown, a 
half way between sundown and dusk. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Question, Had they then taken the hood off you and untied your hands T 
Answer, Yes, sir ; the hood had been taken off me when I first went to the riva 
and the bandage put on my eyes ; but that came off pretty soon, and at this time n 
bauds were untied when I came out, but the rope was still around my neck. Th< 
made me walk with them, one of them held the rope, out some thirty steps fh>m t'' 
bank of the river, may be farther, into a large cornfield where they gathered com 
feed their stock with. There at that place I had a chance of looking atound, and kne 
tlie ground well — the field I was in. I was satisfied about the place before, but noW 
knew that it was Frank Gibson's field over on the island. When they got the com 


feed the stock I asked Moore if ho had a match to make a fire ; that I was very cold, 
my clothes beiug all wet. He made a fire in a drift of dry woo<l, aJid he tied the rope 
to a Bapling — the other hand — I may say he tied me to the sapling. I took off ray 
clothes, wning them oat and dried them as fast as I could, liolding them to the tiro 
tolerably comfortable. We were there three-quarters of an hour, until it was goo<l 
dark. Moore told me we had to leave there ; to get my clothes all on, to fix up ; wo 
niiist get away farther. I got my clothes on, and during the time I was fixing my 
clothes they were gathering up their disguises. These two strange ones had put on 
their ovcry-day clothes previous to that time. They were gathering up their disguises 
ami fixing uptheirbudget, some way or other, when some discussion occurred between 
them and Moore about the convenience of carrying disguises. Moore said he always 
carried his under or on top, us it suited him, and that he had no trouble in turning 
them ; and he took oft* his disguise and took off his every-day pants and coat, and then 
put on his disguise suit next to his drawers, or under what was his outer clothes ; put 
on his evci-y-day clothes, hidiujj the disguisos entirely from view. The face covering I 
didn't see. Moore remarked, " The squire don't know nobody but me, and I am not 
afraid of him ;" and this man bv the name of Boyce romarkeil, ** Ho don't know me." 
"No/* says 1, "I don't believe I Jo," and I didn't at the time. Tiiis other one remarked, 
•^You don't know me?" I looked at him and said I, "They have been calling you 
George, and I think it is George Peace. I am pretty certain ;" and he looked at one 
of the others right quickly, and then turned immediately to me and sort of smiled and 
said, " You are mistaken about the Peace. My name is George." I said, " I have not 
seen Gteorge for some time. I used to know him. Probably I am mistaken," and that 
pafscd ofi^ at that. They fixed fos leaving the place and put a di«guise cap over me, 
then blindfolded me — one of their own cap.-*. They put that over my head; my hands 
were not tied any moi-c then. I was helpe<l up behind one of them, and struck out in 
the direction up the river. It was then dark, and I happened to be the hindermost 
one of the crowd and, having the use of my hands, I slipped up the face covering so I 
could see, and I kept the locality and know the ground all the way to where wo 
stopped. At a certain point Moore turned off and left me and the other two men, and 
said he would go and get some brandy, and told them whereto stop at — a certain cross- 
fence. Wo went on up to that cross-fence and we all got down. I laid down on a j>ilo 
of rails, resting myself. Directly Moore came back and had some brandy — a quart. 
They put on with me then, and stopped at length, as they supposed, at a place that I 
did iiot know anything about, but it was south of Frank (Jil>son's house — or rather his 
horse-lot — ^at tho'back of a plum-thicket. Moore left us there to go in the house and 
eee if anybody was there or who was there. While he was gone this ^an I did not 
recognize commenced talking to me about how badly I had acted in lawiug these men 
for what they had done to me last spring, and there was a good deal said about it be- 
tween him and me. Finally he remarked, " I am a friend of Sam Moore. I don't live 
about here. I live in Tennessee. I was down hero at Sam Moore's at the time of that 
Blair raid about twelve months ago. I staid all night with Sam Moore." Right 
there I knew who it was. I had staid all night with Sam Mooro the eame night my- 

By the Chairman : • 

Question, Who was he T 

Anstcer. Boyce; there's where I detected him ; ho had been strange to me ; I had not 
got at him before that time. After a while Moore came back, and they led me from 
there to the house. They watched me very close about keeping me blindfolded, but I 
vould occasioually get it slipped up a little so as to get a glimpse of the surrounding 
oljeets as well as I could ; I know Frank Gibson's stables. We walked right through 
a passage between the crib and the stables. When we crossed the fence, to get in the 
yaid, I knew the yard ; it was full of locust trees ; I could discover them through the 
disgaiso — it was a thin, domestic concern, and I could get the shadow or outlines of tho 
loeoet trees through that; besides, I got my hand up once so as to look out a little. 
Tbey took me into the back of the house, and around through the house, up stairs, to 
a very comfortable bed, and told me I could sleep there. They scattered off, except 
one of the party that staid with me. 

By Mr. Beck: 

Qu£$tUm. Was the rope taken off your neck then T 

Anmeer, No, sir ; the rope was still around my neck all this time. One of the party, 
I dofD^ remember which, staid with me. I was guarded all the time, and they were 
pMsing backward and forward. In a short time they put a chain on me. Moore 
ttteiD^;«d first to lock both ankles together, but he could not get the thing to fit. 
TinaJfyf he locked it around one ankle to tho bedstead. They brought me-wme 
BOIIpcr. and I ate a few bites and tried to compose myself as well as I could. By this 
tne Iliad taken this blindfold off of my head entirely, when I went to eat in their 
pieaeiiee, and they did not put it back. Well, I slept a very little that night; I wa* 
gvsrded; one of the men slept in the room ; he laid on a pallet across tho room fro- 


mo. I had the opportunity of looking around. There was a light burning in the room ; 
I recognized the room ; I knew the place ; I had been in the room many a time before; 
I had gone up the stairs many a time before, and knew all the surroundings. About 
an hour before day they unlocked me, put a heavy coat on me, or gave it to me to 
wear, and blindfolded me and took me off— Moore, Boyce, and Peace. They took me 
off south from Gibson's to a slough of the Tennessee River, to a thicket of cane, briers, 
and weeds. It had been a cleared piece of land, but grew up very densely with weeds 
and undergrowth. Boyce and Peace there left us — I suppose to go home. They left 
Moore with me. Moore then chained my ankles together ; he used a padlock to secure 
my feet,'about six inches apart. One of the parties that left took the hood they had 
over my face with him. I was not blindfolded any longer. Moore staid with me all 
day, and yarded me with pistols and a double-barreled shot-gun. About eight or nine 
o'clock Gibson brought us breakfast and some water. 

Queation. Gibson no longer concealed t • 

Ansioer. No longer concealed ; he came in his natural clothing then. They furnished 
me with a pencil and a sheet of paper to write a letter to my daughter. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Gibson did ? 

Andwer, Gibson. I wrote the letter to my daughter, stating that I was alive, and a 
close prisoner, and that I had the promise of my life upon certain conditions; that my 
life was in her hands ; that they would keep me a prisoner until after court, and if she 
and John appeared against me at court they would kill me. I stated to her that if she 
valued my life aa a child should the life of a parent^ I did not want her to go to court 
at all — ^neither one of them. I repeated that several times, in order to do as much 
writing as I could, in order to convince her that I was alive, to let her become familiar 
with the handwriting. I knew it would be a very hard matter to convince them I was 
living, and I used another expedient to convince them that I had done the writing ; 
that was this : I recounted to my wife a part of a conversation that she and I had had 
just a few moments before they nad captured me. 

Question, Why, was not your daughter familiar with your handwriting? 

Answer, O, yes, sir ; but I knew it would be a hard matter to convince them under 
the excitement. They were not prepared to see my handwriting any more. Clear of 
the excitement, she would know my writing anywhere among a thousand, perhaps ; 
but the difficulty would be to convince her that I was alive. There was still another 
difficulty in the way ; I was afraid they would, maybe, not comply with my promise ; 
that they would think that these parties had forced me to write that, and had then 
put me to death; and under that impression I knew she would be more resolute 
. than she had been in the first prosecution. 1 delivered that letter to Gibson about 11 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. On Tuesday ? 

Answer, On Monday. He promised me by everything sacred, on the honor of a 
gentleman, that my family should have that letter ; should have it immediately, just 
as quick as it could be conveyed. He promised to envelop it and fix it all right. It 
was given up to them to manage in their own way. Johnson, in the mean time, was 
there when Gibson received the letter. Moore sent him home to get some tobacco for 
him. "We were both out and both wanted it very badly. He came back with the tobacco 
in two or three houi-s — a couple of hours, perhaps — and he said, "Moore, I had a pretty 
hard time at home. Aunt Strange" — an aunt of his wife — "accused me of being out 
Ku-Eluxing all day, and I had to manage the best I could to get the tobacco and get 
away." He gave tnat as an excuse for his staying so long. Well, I don't remember 
any thing worthy of note in the conversation between Moore and Johnson. Yes, Mooro 
had told me in the mean time that he believed it would be a good plan to tnru me 
loose there and let me go home, and he named that to Johnson and they talked aside 
from me privately to themselves upon some subject. I suppose that was the subject 
they talked upon. Finally, after they came back and sat down where I was, Johnson 
told Moore," You all do as you please. Whatever you do I will agree to. It will be 
all righ* with me ;" and he went off. About' 4 o'clock Gibson came oack badly excited 
and terribly scared. He reported to Moore that there was bad news. " What is it f " 
said Moore. "Well," said he, " Weir's folks have got to town and have reported this 
case, and the whole country is up in arms, and the j are out after us ; and I wouldn't 
be surprised if there is warrants out for you and me both. There is terrible excitement 
and they will be down here." He talked fast. Finally, he proposed, I think, that we 
had better go to Tennessee. Well, Moore got him a little cool. Moore is a very cool- 
headed man— hard to excite. He got him cooled down a little, and got him to tell off 
all who composed the posse that was down there. He told off a good many of their 


By Mr. Beck : 

Qaesiioti, Who did lie tell were out f 

Ansiccr. He spoke of Mr. Coleman and So well, and a young man named Lindsay. I 
can't recollect the names, but ho named a good many. 

Question. It was Dan Coleman's party ? 

Aimvcr. Yes, sir ; the same party. I don't know which really commanded. Colo- 
man was along and the deputy sheriff. Well, they discussed the matter for some time 
c-md proposed to go to Tennessee, aud Gibson proposed staying with liim right there and 
dyim; with Moore j as he bad goue into it with Moore, he said he would die with him, 
end he remarked t^ me, in the mean time, " Squire, I wouldn't hurt you for anything 
in the world. I glory in your beiuj^ a radical. You are an honest man. You are not 
like old Spaulding, at Athens. He is thinking of mouoy. You have been the same all 
the time. I won't hurt yon ; but if they ^ere to come on you^ just between you and 
me, 1 vill tell you that they would never take anybody but me." I inferre<l from that 
that ho would kill mo rather tlmn let my friends have me. That was only an infer- 
ence that I drew from his remark. Afttjr discussing who were in the crowd, iMoore 
remarked that he ** could clean out all such crowds as that, if wo had the crowd to- 
gether," aud the Smith boys were mentioned. They were the only names they did 
laeutiou. Well, about this time I put in. I began to think of consulting my own 
safely a littlo. I wanted to get Gibson away. 1 said, " Frank, if you are looking 
fur these men to come down hero to your house, as they told you they would come, you 
go along home and calm yourself down, and receive them kindly, as you are able todo, 
and feed their stock for them, and feed them. If thej' want to make a search for Weir 
you can very easily mislead them and take them anywhere else than this i)lace," and 
they fell upon that plan ; that he. was to go back up to the house and not stay with 
the rest ; he was to go back and be as cool as circumstances would permit. 

By the Chairman : 

Qaeslion. What was your policy in getting rid of Gibson 7 

Aiisirer. Because of his remark, that if he was with me and the crowd .came on them, 
they would not take amy but him ; it was a remark I didn't like ; ho left ; just before 
he left, he aud Moore stood a few feet from me — only four or five feet — and were tiUking 
lou-, and I heard Moore say, '* I will take him to Smith's." After Gibson was gone, 
Mo<»rc fixed aud took his mule that he had with him into a very dense cane thicket, 
and wc crawled deeper into the thicket for fear some one might find us ; just about 
that time I was about as keen to keep my friends from finding me or getting too close 
to OS, as they were to discover us; for iu studyiufj upon that thing, it had come right 
forcibly upon nfe that these men would kill me rather than let my friends find mo alive. 
\V<? lay in that position until dark — until it wa« good dark ; Moore unlocked my ^ 
feet, took the chain off of my feet, kept the rope around my neck, had me get up in tho ' 
feOfldle and ride before. I had ridden so much behind, on the day before, that I hatl^ot 
chafed by the rough riding, and complained of it, so he put me before, and we rotlc^on 
toward Gibson's, and got back of his lot, at this plum thicket, where he let down the fence 
and let in his mule, and I crawled into the thick part of it, some fifteen feet perhaps ; 
he spread down a quilt or comfort, that we had brought with us to lie on, and I sat 
down on it ; Moore locked me securely, then, to a plum-bush, and asked me for my 
knife ; I handed it to him ; he says, " I have no locks to be picked. I am going to 
leave you for a while. We must go to Tennessee." He was gone some time ; I don't 
know whether he got to the house or not ; he came back though, and reported that he 
could not make any discovery ; he could not find Frank ; lying there a while, he 
remarked, " Somebody is coming. I hear my hounds barking up at the house." Well, 
he wonld go off and I went to sleep ; I had not slept any the nipht before and was 
badly fatigued ; 1 slept, and I reckon I slept pretty sound, but not long at a time with- 
out waking ; he was absent at one time when I awoke, and at another time I woke and 
he was lying by me ; I asked if he had seen Frank. He said, " Yes ; the fool was so 
excited that ho has let his mule get away with the saddle on it, and wo are not likely to 
get off." He staid, I don't know how long ; I think I fell asleep before he left again ; I 
was not paying much attention at that time to what was going on ; he left me again 
and came back and reported that one of their party came over to us ; he remarked, 
*• Squire, one of their men has come to Us." " Who is it, Sam f " I said. He said, *' I 
can*t tell you that." I says, " If it is secret, I don't want to hear it." I says, ** What 
are you going to do to get away from here f " 

Qnesiion, Did ho refer to that posse when he spoke of one having some over to 

Aiutcer. Yes, sir ; he referred to that posse, and he said the posse was cainped at my 
house aud everything was closely guarded. Gibson had told me in the mean time that 
he had given my letter into the hands of a friend, a gentleman who he was certain 
would deliver it to the family before sundown, or put it on the gate-post, where they 
could get it at milking-lime.* When Moore told me the poBse was at my house I said 
'*What has become of my letter f ' He said, "I am afraid Fannie will not getjt." ' 


said, "I am afraid so too, and it is very importaDt that she should have it She mnst 
have one." Ho says, "Yoq shall have an opportunity of writing." Finally be went 
o£f a few minutes and came back and said, '^ Squire, we roast get away from here." He 
unlocked me then and dropped the chain right there. He didn't preteW to take it ui>, 
but took the rope and led his mule and me both out of the thicket, across the fence, 
out into the road. 

Queaiian. Was this on Tuesday morning T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; Tuesday morning about 3 o'clock, as well as I can tell. 

Question, Before daylight ? 

Answer. Yes, sir; 2 or 3 o'clock, judging by the travel that we did, up to daylight, 
I discovered a man sitting on a mule, or a hoi-se, just to my right, north of me, as I 
came out. Moore had his gi'ay mare there. That was a nag* that had not been there. 
He had his mule with us all day, but his mllre was there bnc no saddle. Ho put me 
on the mule and passed the ropo down several times around the left leg and stiiTui*, 
around the mule, and tied it around the right ankle. He gave the doul>le-barre]ed gun 
he had had all day to this man that was on the mule — 1 will call it a mule now, for 
looking at it I discovered the distinction — and bounced on his gray mare, bare-back, 
started off, and ordered us to follow. He immediately turntitl east on the south line of 
this thicket — this plum thicket— -and kept in that direction until he passed out of the 
plantation. He traveled in about the same direction, through blind paths and woods to 
the place where Jim Bradford was living. He there tried t^ borrow a saddle of him, 
but Bradford was not at home ; he didn"t find anybody. He went on, keeping m an 
easterly direction. In the mean time, in going on there, I heanL him calling this guard 
behind me by the name of Hiram. I made it up in my mind that when daylight came, 
if I had an opportunity, I would try to se* who he was. About daylight we were going 
through an old field, and this guard called a halt, and rode up to us and remarke<l that he 
always did like, when he was in an ohl field about daylight, to have something to drink, 
and ho pulled out a bottle of brandy, and him and Moore drank there— drank about all of 
it. It was a small quantity. I there discovered who he was. It was a man by the name of 
Hiram Hi^gins, who is named on the list of witnesses in the case against Moore. In trav- 
eling on Irom there in an easterly direction some two or three 'mile^ Inrther, we came 
to a creek called Round Island Creek, and Moore turned down the creek. I was per- 
fectly well acquainted with the whole couutry we had traveled over. I had no incam- 
brances, except that my feet were tied under the mule. It was a terrible thicket. He 
kept on. down the south direction, and crossed the Mooresville road and kept on pretty 
near to the Brown's Ferry road in the direction of Teunessce River. I there became 
fdarmed, thinking, from the course they were going, that I would have one more trip 
to the river, and it would be my last. I asked Moore where he was going, or what he 
,wa8 going to do. He said, " I am going to Lincoln County." 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. In Tennessee T 

Answer. Tennessee. Says I, " You are going.right towards the Tennessee River here. 
Right down there is Brownsville, and here is the Moores^lle road, and hero is Albert 
Yarborough's plantation, and over here is John Black's plantation." He gave a look 
about and discovered his mist>ake and remarked that he was lost. He looked about a 
minute or two and says, **We must get oat up yonder." By this time it was broad 
daylj^jht. You could see anywhere. Albert Yarborough's house' was about a quarter of a 
mil^trom where we were, and you could see it plainly. We retraced our steps acroes 
a field until we struck the woods on the north of the plantation, and there turue<l oast, 
going on rather in the direction of Athens through the woods, and Moore became very 
tired of riding bare-back and proposed a rest. He untied me and we all dismount^ 
and hitched. I threw down my comfort that I had and laid down on it. He and this 
man Higgius were off some fifteen or twenty feet, talking pretty well all the time to- 
gether. I was paying no attention to what they said. I think we staid there about 
an hour, and Moore said we must get away from here. He said, *' I want breakfast." 
I commenced gathering up my quilt or comfort and taking up the rope ; it was very 
long. I was taking it up out of my way. He said, ** Squire, take that rope off. You 
are no longer my prisoner. You are at liberty and can knock around with us or go 
home." I remarked that I believed I would stay with him. I was bare-hea<led and 
had no coat ; my chance of getting home was very suspicious ; somebody might see 
me, and it probably would not be safe. Now, my real object in staying with him was, 
I thought that some of his body of men might be lying in ambush to kill me as I was 
going home ; that he had now a witness by which he could prove that he had turned 
me loose safe at a certain place, and I determined on staying with him, knowing that 
1 was liberated, and I was not afraid of his doing me iujury individually. Well, ho 
struck out fi'om there and said he would go to Bon^s and get some breakfast. I subse- 
quently learned that that was a jnan named Ben Glaze, a relation of his. We put out ; 
t was, maybe, a mile and a half or two miles to Glaze's, and we kept the woods pretty 
much all the time. We crossed the Brown's Ferry road in the mean time ; I knew it 


yery well; I bad a very good knowledge of tho country and had bad all the time ; I 
coold'bave struck out and made any point I might have wanted to pretty well. When 
be got to a certain place he turned out and went into a thicket and swamp — it was a 
dense thicket — and dismounted and told Hiram Higgins to ride up to Ben's and see if 
be was at home, and make arrangements to have breakfast. Higgins put out and re- 
ported that Ben's wife said that Ben had gone to Jones Lane for a load of cotton-seed 
and might not be back before twelve o'clock and maybe not before night, and it was 
a bad chance. Moore said, " I will ^o to the houBc." Ho got on his mule that had 
tbe saddle, the one that I had been nding, and rode to the house and returned and 
n^rted in the conrse of an hour that Ben was gone and there was no cbauco to get 
anyUiiog to eat before dinner ; that there was a couple of strange ladies at Ben's, and he 
could get dinner when dinner was cooked. He didn't stay but a fewminut<?s; ho 
didn't want to arouse any suspicion. Ho had put up his mule at the house and fed 
tbere. He came back and in about a half an hour I heard the car whistle up at 
Atbeus, about two miles off. He brought dinner, to us, and I ate dinner ; it was very 
good, and I ate heartily. He went back then to the house, and Higgins and I enjoyeil 
oureclvcs some, talking about one thing and another. We had been acquainted 
and knew one another well. We got to talking about old times and associates. Mooro 
came to us along in the evening — well, about the middle of the evening — I thiuk, and 
about two hours before night, Higgi us left us and went home to At hens. The calculation 
was that they had got tired of hunting for me and hud gone off, and that tbe squad 
had all gone back and that everything had cooled down, and Mooro and I could make 
it borne pi*etty easily. We staid there until about sundown, when we saddled up 
and struck out for home, keeping the woods and imfre(juented wood-roads and paths, 
&C., keeping in a westerly direction toward home until dark, and then struck across 
for the big road, what is called the Florence and Athens road. I led the way, being 
tbe best acquainted with the courses and the section of country. I struck that road 
about iSve miles west of Athens. We kept the road on to within a quarter of a mile 
of my home; then 1 dismounted and turned the nag— his mare that I was ridiug — 
oror to Moore, and he fixed up and went on home, and I went across to my home. 

By the Chairman : ^ 

Qu^tion. What time did you reach your home t 

Anstcer. It was evening ; I reckon it was 10 o'clock. The fiimily had all gone to bed. 
They had staid up tolerably late under the excitement. One or two of the neighboring 
men— my son-in-law was one — were there. They were acting as a guard. 'i'Ley had 
provided themselves with a pretty good supply of (ire-arms, and I had to use a good 
deal of discretion to get to the house. It is unnecessary, however, to detail that. I 
found though, when 1 got homo, that the squad that had gone out there hml taken my 
daughter Fanny to Athens for safety, and that my son John was at Mr. Blackburn's, 
8ome three miles farther. The next morning I sent my son-in-law to town to get Fan- 
nie and bring her home, and acquaint the sheriff privately of the fact that I was safe 
and wanted to see him. I expected to cany out my contract with him. I do not know 
whetber it is wortJi whUe to detail my determination in that thing all the way through 
(ft mi. They were tolerably desperate; in fact, very desperate. Well, I will state it, 
anybow. They had robbed me. I reflected this way : They were a set of outlaws ; thoy 
had robbed me of the poor privilege of vindicating myself in our civil courts. At the 
same time they were depriving our civil officers of an opportunity of enforcing the law 
by forcing witnesses away from the courts; and I intended (and I took an oath on it) 
tbat they should not enjoy the victory long. Well, my son-in-law reported to the sher- 
ifii and he immediately gathered up a i>osse and came out to my house and brought 
me to Athens and arrested Moore. He and Lentz both came out with a squad of men. 
They arrested Mooro and guarded him at my house that night, and the next morning 
be brought him on to Athens, and he was there committed to jail. 

Qvettion, Is Moore now in prison on that charge f 

JMswer. Yes, sir ; he is in jail in this place. 

By Mr. Beck : 
^*twm. Sent here because he is thought to be more secure here than in Athens T 
Amwer, Yes, sir. It was believed that his friends would mako an -effort to rescue 
him: and, another thing, the excitement of the citizens there was too intense. It 
would not have been safe for him to have given bond there in Athens and to have been 
turned loose. If he had given a bond and been tume<l loose he would have been killed 
hefivo he got out of Athens. I am satisfied of that, for the excitement was intense 
against him. 

By the Chaibman : 

QitettMn. Now yon may give the names of all the persons whom you identified, from 
fiirt to last, in this second raid upon you T 

Antwtr. Well, sir, Samuel Moore, Frank Gibson, Pink Johnson, Samuel Bo^^ce, (] 
tMok his name is Samuel Boyce,) and Geoage Peace. 


By Mr. Buckley: 
Question. And this Hiram Higcins T 

AMuoer, I will just make a little statement here in regard to Hiram Higgins that it is 
not necessary, I reckon, to take down. 

By Mr. Beck: 

Question. You had better do it, because Coleman spoke of it, too. 
Anstoer. WeU, sir, I will 

By the CnAiR3fAN : 

Question. I wanted to ascertain the names of all besides the persons already named 
and identified by you, who were concerned in this hanging and ducking that you 
have described, drc, from first to last 

Answer. These fisre were the men concerned in tho ducking. There were five that I 
know that I saw, dismiisod parties who took rao from home. The increase of numbers 
that I am satisfied of I was unable to see. It was only from noise of horses' feet, and 
talking, and hearing names called that I knew. Now, when I made my complaint Mr. 
Coleman wrote out the complaint, and he embraced in it the three Smiths, I think, 
and when ho read the complaint over to me I stopped him at that point and remarked, 
" Captain, I don't wish to go any further than I can certainly identify in this matter." 
There was another lawyer present, Judge Common, and ho remarked, ** You have 
every reason to believe that they were along," and it wa.s written to the best of my 
knowledge and belief that these parties were in. One of these Smiths has been ar- 
rested, and I delivered my evidence in detail about as I have here from first to last ; but 
in the Smith case I could only deliver what I had heiird. I could only speak of what 
I had heard, the name Smith called two or three different times, and Sunday I heard it 
called first, and I heard their names called Monday evening in connection with " the 
squad," or "my boys," I am not certain which, that Moore mentioned, and then I heard 
Moore say to Gibson, " I will take him to Smith's," and his aim to taike me to Tennes- 
see led me to believe that the Smiths were concerned. Smith proved an alibi — a very 
strong one. I didn't stay to hear the evidence. 

Questimi. You may go on with the explanation that you were going to make in re- 
gard to Hiram Higgins. 

Answer. In regard to Hiram Higgins I came to this conclusion, that I would not say 
anything about his being along to anybody as long as I could avoid it ; that I would 
make an efiort, if it should ever come to trial, and introduce him as a witness against 
Moore in regard to his having me as a prisoner. I had some suspicion that'may be ho might 
bo a particular friend of Moore, and he would get out of the way, or something of the 
sort ; but after I came to town a friend came to me and asked me if I had seen Hiram 
Higgins ? I carelessly remarked, " No ; why do you ask the question t " He said, " I 
jost wanted to know, because he told certain men that he had been with you and 
Moore ; that they had been feeding you like a fighting-cock, and that man is no iriend 
of yours, and ho is making light of the matter, and I got around Higgins, and he told 
me he was with you." Said I, ** If he has told it himself it is so. I will say he was 
there ;" and I then told him about the whole transaction with Higgins, and I told 
Captain Coleman. Captain Coleman left it with me whether he should include Hij^ 
gins in the warrant, and have him arrested, or leave him for a witness, and I decidea 
that I would rather have him for a witness. I thought it would be a benefit. I con- 
sulted with men who knew him well, whether he would be reliable or not. They save 
it in that he would be reliable, and would give in what he knew ; and he has told a 
party there pretty well the whole thing ; never in my presence, but I have been told 
what he said, and I felt safe in having him as a witness. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. "What excuse did Higgins make for his being there t 

Answer. He came to me — I forget the time. I believe it was on the morning ; well, 
it was after Moore was put in jail ; it was some time between the time I came up to 
Athens and the trial of this man Smith ; it was in the course of a week or ten days. I 
did not get through with Smith. By the way, I forgot one thing that I ought to state in 
connection with him. That was, that when Smith was arrested they found three suits 
of disguises in his possession. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. Let me ask you at this point how these disguises corresponded with the old- 
fashioned Ku-Klux disguise f 

Answer. Well, sir ; I don't know that I ever saw an old-fashioned Ku-Klux garb. I 
wish to say something after I get through with this in regard to other transactions 
that have taken place. ^ t 

Question, Go on and finish up your statement, then. Digitized by vjOOQ IC 

A}i8wer. I was on Higgins. Higgins came to me rather in a pleasant way, laughing, 


and told me "I had no ill-will toward you in goiu^ t^ them follows the other ni^ht. 
My object was to find oat all I could. I have studied devilment so much all my lite, I 
call catch almost anybody I want to. I knew if I could get with them I could hud out 
where you were." That was his explanation, in about those very words. I remarked, 
** Hiram, I have no ill-will towards you ; you did not hurt me." 

Question. Did you think his statement to you was sincere 1 

Jnmer. Yes, sir; I did not dispute it. I had no right to dispute it. 

QwesiUm* Do you think he really meant to befriend you in quitting with this gang ? 

An$Ker. I am not well enough acquainted with him to dispute his word. 

Question, Was he under the influence of liquor when you first saw him with this 

Answer. Yes, sir; from his actions he seemed to bo very stupid, aud would lag 
behind a good deal. I put it up, and he has tolc^ some of the parties that ho had been 

Qaeition. Was he on foot t 

Answer. On horseback all the time. I understand that he told parties that he had 
been drinking, and wandered off with some other man, and fouud himself at Gibs(>u>. 
That is somewhat equivocal. It is mentioned that he went there with a man named 
Wammach, that brought Sam Moore's gray nag^o him. 

Question. Have yon anything further to add, Mr. Weir T 

Answer. Well, sir, if you will permit me, I will §ive you something of my observa- 
tioufl of some other cases and things, and matters m the country for the last three or 
fonr years. 

(luesUon. Occurring in Limestone County t 

Answer. Yes, sir. Captain Coleman neglected 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. Before commencing that I will ask, was the term of the court approaching 
vhcn they took you out the last time ? 

Ansicer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How long before the holding of the court ? 

Anstcer. One week ; on the Monday they had me a prisoner the court was just that 
day week. Our judge holds his county court every third Monday, and this was the 
seooDd Monday of the month that I was a prisoner with them. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. In the second seizure of your person and maltreatment, running throngh 
tiTo or three days, as you have described it, did this man Moore seem to act as captain 
throogbout f 

Ansuxr. Yes, sir, as commander. I regarded him so, and they all seemed to yield to 
his command in every phase. In both cases he has acted in the capacity of commander ; 
and he named that in his remarks to me; that he had hai'd work to save mo. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. Is that the same man Moore now in jail T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Is he the same one who was announced this year as candidate for sheriff of 
Limestone County ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. You spoke of a letter which got out, written, I think, by your daughter ? 

Anstoer. It was written by my wife. The circumstances of that letter I can relate in 
detail from my family. I was not present. I can ^ive that ; if it ever comes up, my 
wife and daughter will both sustain it. I had written two letters home — one irom 
Eastport and one from luka, Mississippi. I wrote them within two or three days of 
each other. I directed my wife, if she received my letter in time, to get an answer to 
laka by the twentieth of the month ; to write aud to use the name of her brother in the 
direction. She had two or three brothers in Mississippi, but not in that part of the 
State. One of them we had been regularly corresponding with for some time. 

Question. You directed her to direct your letter in his name f 

Asuwer. Yes, sir ; in his name to me. In that way I aihied to keep the parties from 
knowing where I was. She ^vrote the letter and took it to a friend— Parson Duun — au 
apright man and a good friend, and got him to back the letter, giving the direction. 
Also to back it to have it returned if not called for in such a time, to be returned to 
Soaan F. Weir, at Athens. Parson Dunn gave the letter to a mail-carrier — it is a 
horse-mail, as it is called, that passes from Florence to Athens, two trips a week, round 
trips — a very good boy that frequently carried the old geniloraan's mail aud would 
bring his mall back from Athens. The old man would not have the letter mailed at 
tlie office a mile below, where Blair lived. 

Question. Ih Blair the postmaster at your nearest post-office t (^ r\r^ri\t> 

Jl»«*r. Ye., sir. Digitized by V^OOglC 

Q,nation. Tlie same Blair concerned in thia afiiiir t 


Anstoer. The father. I don't know which of them have the office. I do not 
know that cither of the parties are responsible. They have an office there and 
there is a mail distributed at that place. The mail-boy, having a good deal to 
do and several packages, forgot the letter. I don't suppose he thought of it until ho 
passed Parson Dunn's and delivered him some mail, and the old man asked him if ho 
had put that letter in the office. Ho remarked, " Yes," and passed on ; but^ in fact, he 
had forgotten the letter, and ho told the story to the old man, but thought he would 
make it all right by mailing it at the Lucky Hit post-office, where Blair was postmaster, 
and he handed it in there. He was ignorant of anything being wrong, but there was 
my wife's name on the letter, and she right thare in the neighborhood. That letter 
went out from that office, for on the 18th — the letter was dated on the 10th or 12th — 
on the 18th these parties made a raid, that I have stated here, on my family, ordering 
them to leave, and produced that letter, and tantalized my wife with the language sho 
had used in it. She had stated in the letter that this man Pollis, as she has told me, 
had come to the gate the next day after I left, and she had ordered him off. 

Question, Have yon reason to believe that the United States mail was interfered with 
to get that letter out t 

Answer. There is the best evidence. Ton will find that Parson Dunn will state that 
he gave the letter to the boy— the mail-carrier— and the boy says he handed the lettor 
in there at that office. There is the evidence. 

Question, At Lucky Hit f 

Ansiver, Yes, sir; and this is the identical lettor my wife had written. 

Question, Do you know whether the letter was postmarked at Lucky Hit or not T 

Answer, No, sir. 

By the Chairman: 

Question, Who did the boy say he delivered it to at the post-office t 

Answer. If ho has stated to which one of the family, I do not remember it. 

Question. You say old man Blair is postmaster there f 

Answer. I think he is. 

Question. Has his son access to the office T 

Answer. Any member of the family has. I have been about there a great deal. 
There was a post-office kept there before the war, and during the war, and. all the time. 
I have lived within a mile of the place for eighteen years, and any member of the 
family, male or female, handles the mail. 

Question. What were the politics of the postmaster, old man Blair t 

Anstver. He was an old-line whig before the war, and he is now acting with the dem- 
ocratic party. He held out very strong Union for nearly the iirst year of the war, and 
then changed over, and went for the Southern cause heavy. That is his politics. 
Those are the circumstances of the letter. It was clearly identified first by the paper. 
My wife, not having any letter-paper, took a sheet out of my day-book, or rather tho 
book that I keep as a docket in my office. It was check-ruled and lined, and sher had 
written it with red ink. Then the langnage, too ; they read the letter to her that 
night, and they came over the same language she had written to me. She made an 
attempt to get hold of tho letter, and got her hands on it once, but they snatched it 
back ; she did not g(»t to retain it. 

Question. During this second raid, was anything said to yon from first to last by any 
of the parties that were connected with this outrage upon your person about yoar 
political sentiments! 

Answer. I do not think there was. I have no recollection that that was mentioned 
at all. Under so much excitement it is hard to recollect anything, but 1 do not think 
they ever said anything to me about political matters at all. 

Question. What was the political status of each and every person connected with 
this second outrage upon your person f 

Answer. Well, sir, I regarded it as very low. 

Qiiestion. I do not spei^ of their moral or social status, but what was their politios ? 

Answer, They gloried in the name of rebel or democrats. They are what they gen- 
erally term there, and in Alabama here, the conservative democratic party. That is 
the name of the party now. , ' 

Question, This man Moore, you say, was a candidate for the nomination of sheriff of 
Limestone County T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; he was an independent candidate, and run outside of the conventioxi. 

Question. I think you said he was a democrat also 1 

Answer. Yes, sir*. 

Question. Was he regarded as a leader in that part of the county- prominent as a 
democrat t 

Answer. He was distinguished as a leader down in tho neighborhood. 

Question. Do you mean as a political leader ? 

Answer, Yes, sir, and a leader in the neighborhood. Captain Moore was very popular 
right in that neighborhood. He had some popularity right in that neighborhood, so I 


have learned recently, bht, as a leader, lie has no popularity in tlie county. He is not 
recognizeil by such men as Captain Coleman and other men of that kind. 

Quettion. You expressed a wish (o give an account of other disturbances in that part 
of the country during the last two or three years. Yon ™ay proceed to make such 
statement as yon desire. 

Answer, It was my calculation to do so, if I was permitted, when I first started up 
here, I wanted to give the committee all the information I could, and Captain Cole- 
man told me this morning he had forgotten some things that he wanted to bring to the 
notice of the committee. 

Question. Go on with your statement. 

iifWMjer. I will remark here that during the existence of what I* understand to be the 
original Ku-Elux organization I never saw any of them. I never was interrupted or 
troubled, notwithstanding there were some men of a certain class that I had but little 
regard for their opinion, who had a prejudice against me in regard to my politics ; but 
gentlemen, or men who I regarded as gentlemen, or leading men of the democratic 
party, never mistreated me socially, or in any way whatever. I have never been so 

Question. You were always free and outspoken in your sentiments? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; some of my neighbors and I have argued the sa^me as we used to. 

Question. Did you vote your sentiments at the election T 

Answer. Yes, sir, at the election ; every election I could get to. 

Question. Did ^ou vote for Grant and Colfax f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Where! 

Answer. At the box down there. 

Question. At your own pi*ecinct f 

Answer. Yes, sir. I do not remember that I have ever missed any election, and I 
have always voted that ticket ; done it independently. Some would look at mo with 
a scowl, while others would laugh at me and joke with me. 

Question. You voted solitary and alone ? 

Answer. Yes, sir; solitary and alone. No, I have never had any reason to complain 
at all of any ostracism, or any difference in a social way, by gentlemen. 

Question. Were you in that county during the war? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Were you not conscripted T 

Ansicer. No, sir ; I was past the age. I was too old, and I was a cripple. 

Question. In your hand f 

Answer. Yes, sir. As I remarked in regard to the Ku-Klux, I never saw any in the 
time of what was considered the original organization. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

QuesHon. What time was that T 

Answer. I think it commenced in the latter part of 1867, but I am not certain about 
that. I think in 1869, along, maybe, about the summer of 1869, it was published in 
oor county papers that the Ku-Klux order was disbanded, in obedience to law. The 
Jegislatnre of Alabama had passed a very stringent law in relation to the Ku-Klux. 

Question. They had passed that law in 1868, in December, had they not ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I think it was in 1868, in the latter part of the year ; that is my 
recollection. I recollect distinctly of one notice in the paper, commanding all dens — 
1 think that was the term used— to disband, and that the order was disbanded in obe- 
dience to law. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Who was that order signed by T 

Answer. By the Cyclops— the Grand Cyclops. 

Question. That was tho signature ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; that seemed to be the head man of the order. I took it in that 

Question. That, you say, was in the summer of 1869 ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I think so. After that I could hear of small squads, small bodies 
o( disguised parties, in different localities, and violence being done in different places, 
lo one case there was a negro boy most shockingly butchered up and scarified with 
knives. I saw him a week after it was done. 

Qaestian. What case was that ? 

Answer. The case of young Blair. 

Qu&tion. W© have had his fathei*, Augustus Blair, here. 

Answer. I saw him after it was done and heard his statement. Last December a 
year ago — I think it was about the time — ^thero was a man named Barbee brought be- 
fore Squire Blair and myself, on a charge of hog-st«aling. The man had a good deal 
of ehaiacter at atake. He had been and was regarded as an acceptable minister of thu 


Methodist Cbnrcb, and a Mason^ and all this sort of thing, and he presented his case pretty 
strong. We had given him achauco. He had given bond for his appearance. We gave 
him a chance to get up evidence twice, I believe. At one certain time he made his ap- 
pearance, and the case was passed over to the county court. We had got the so- 
licitor, Mr. Hayes, the then acting solicitor. He came out, and the case Avas taken 
from the justice of the peace and turned over to the county court. He gave bond for 
his appearance at the county court, aud all was going on well. There hKd been a con- 
siderable of a crowd around during the day, but had pretty much disbanded ; but 
along in the evening, an hour or an hour and a half before night, I walked up from 
the house, thinking about going home, and out about the big road at the gate, I was 
talking with some neighbors who were there, and happening to look oflf a piece I saw 
a gang of men. I supposed them to be men ; they were in disguise. I thiuK that was 
the first disguised party I ever saw, to the best of my recollection. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, How numerous were they f 

An8tcei\ There were eleven ; they were riding in the direction of the house. Barbeo 
hml been accused of being a Ku-Klux, and I didn't have any doubt but what he was 
or had been ; and the first impression on my mind was it wjwj some of his friends from 
the other side of Elk River — for he lived in Lauderdale County, and the accusation 
was brought in Limestone — who had come to rescue him. I put out to the house to 
notify the women that the Ku-Klux were coming, and not to bo alarmed. I left the 
big road for the house to notify the women that they were coming, but they hurried 
up very fast, and I would not run. I took that precaution. I only walked peert, and 
they passed mo within about twenty feet of the door of the house, going to the office. 

Question, Whose house! 

Answer. Doctor Blair's house ; it was at Blair's office, and they came very near get- 
ting in the door. I suppose Barbeo was standing with his back at the door before they 
discovered him. He pitched out at another door to get away, and they commenced 
firing on him and ran clear around the house. By this time I had got into the passage. 
It was a double house, and I could see the whole operation. Part of them followed 
him around the house — six or eight of that bunch tliat came on the house. Somo 
turned back the way they came, and I think he was fired at some twenty or twenty- 
five times, they running and firing He was outrunning them, and was about to get 
out of the gat«, but three or four of them headed him at the gate and they captured 
him there and struck him two or three times over the head with pistols and maue him 
submit and give up, and they took another man that was under the same accusation. 
By Mr. Blair : 

Qticstion, Of hog-stealing ? 

Ansiccr, Yes, sir; they took them off to the woods and whipped them. I didn't »ee 
them whipped, but they brought them back after a while and turned them over to the 
civil authorities, telling us that they had got the truth 6ut of them ; that they bad 
acknowledged everything that they were accused of. That was about the last 1 ever 
. saw or heard of them. I knew none of them in that party. I saw the place wbero 
he was whipped ; saw the hickories ; I knew the point ; I could see a glimpse of them 
from the place where I wajs by the house. The next raid in the neighborhood was a 
company of eighteen that run off a couple of men named WMom, and wanted to cap- 
ture them for some cause or other. I never heard the cause. 

Question. When did that happen f 

Anstcer. In June of last year. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, White men ? 

Anstper. They were disguised men. 

Question. But were the Wisdoms white men? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; Wisdom said he recognized a good many of them, -but I didn't see 
any of that party. On the same day there was an orphan boy in my neighborhood 
that was taken from his work in the field and whipped badly. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. By this same band T 

An^cer. It was done on the same day. I did not see any of them. The boy was an 
orphan and lived with his grandfather. His father and mother are both dead. He is 
between fourteen and fifteen years old. His aunt told me that he wna so bloody that 
nis shirt stuck to his back, and the boy is ah exile from the State now. 

Question. What was Wisdom whipped for T 

Anstcer. They did not whip him. There were two of them together, and the parties 
knew that the Wisdoms would fight. They have that character— that there is no back 
down in tliem. They walked out of their houses with their pistols in their hands aud 
walked off from the house to the woods. _ 


QuiitUm. These eighteen men that raado this run upon Wisdom y^u say were dls- 
guiswl f 
Anmer, Yes, sir ; so the Wisdoms said. 
Quation, And armed f 
Answer. And armed. • 

Question. And mounted T 

Ansiver, And mo|iuted. Wisdom told me he recop^nized some of the horses and sev- 
eral of the men. He said, " I have shod some of their horses." 

Question, Did he say whether their disguises conformed or corresponded to the dis- 
guise of the Kn-Klus orjpnization 1 ^ 

Ansicer, I never questioned him on that. 

Question, Did you know what they charged Wisdom with, or what the complaints 

AMicer. No, sir. I supposed, and it was only a supposition, that it originated with a 
%ht he had had with a man named Yarborough, some two or three weeks before that. 
Yarborough had taken out a warrant after they had a fight— a fisticuff fight, without 
weapons. Yarborough went to Squire Blair and took out a warrant, and Wisdom did 
not want Blair to si t on the case, and sent for m^o try the case. Myself and Squire Blair 
beard the evidence, and it was clear that thore was no weapon used at all. Under our 
statnte it was clearly within oi^r discretion, and wo fined Wisdom three dollars— I bo- 
lieve that was our decision — and tho costs, which were seven or eight dollars. I do 
not remember what it all amounted to, but that was our decision in the case. I 
learned afterward that Yarborough was very much dissatisfied with the decision; 
blamed mo for controlling the decision ; but I paid no attention to that. 

Question, What was his complaint ; was it that the fine was not large enough f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. And so the Ku-Klux proposed to increase the penalty t 

Answer. Do not understand me as saying that. This is what Wisdom informs me he 
gathered from isolated remarks. I am only sp^eaking of these rumors. When I learned 
that I was blamed by Mr. Yarborough for giving that decision, I paid no attention, for 
I looked upon Mr. Yarborough as a gentleman. 

Question, But Wisdom thinks this Ku-Klux raid was instigated by Yarborougli f 

Answer, Y'es, sir. 

Question. And what was the orphan boy whipped for ? 

Answer. Nobody knows. He is only a boy of thirteen or fourteen. There could 
hare been no politics in that. 

Qnesiion. Were the men who whipped him disguised men t 

Answer, He told it before he left the country that this man Moore was one of them 
that whipped him. We are making efforts to get that boy back here to appear against 
him at our circuit court. 

Question. Go on and state any further instances in your knowledge ? 

Anstcfr, A man named Simmons, living out norttiwest, a very nice old gentleman, 
was whipi>ed some time ago, and is now an exile. That is about all I know. There are 
(rther parties can give you further information. 

Q»e9tion, When was Simmons whipped f 

Answer. I dont know at what time, but t think during last winter. I never hoard 
of it until a few days ago.. 

Question. What was his alleged offense ? 

Answer, I have not learned. I do not know anything about his politics, but very re- 
spectable men have told me that he was a nice, honest man. 

Question, Was he a citizen of Limestone County T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, All these whippings wore in Limestone County T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Is Simmons said to be a refugee on account of this \'isit of the Ku-Klux ? 

Ans\(Hr, Yes, sir. Judge Common called my attention to that case last evening. I 
think he had had some witnesses before him in reference to that case, and a case Mr. 
Coleman, I suppose, told you of— the case of Scales. There is a man named Gordoi», 
tliat formerly lived on tho same ground that this man Frank Gibson lives on now, who 
is also a refugee from the State, and now in Tennessee. He was driven off. I saw a 
piece he published after he got his family into Tennessee. 

Question. He was driven off when ? 

Answer. In 1870. 

Question. About what time in 1870 ? 

Answer. About June, or along in the summer. 

Question. Was he visited by a Ku-Klux raid ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qttertiai*, State the circumstances. CiiriOOiljEl 

Answer. The circumstances appeared to be that Gibson had applied ftriiw^Njeen 
talking to me along in the latter part of the winter, before, or in the spring, about r 


certain charge be prefeiTc^ against Gordon, in regard to some property that Gordon 
had once given a lien upon to parties in Nashville, and these parties in Nashville were 
particular friends of Gibson. Gibson appeared and claimed that he had evidence that 
Gordon had run this property off in violation of law, and he wanted t(» get at him and 
have htm arrested under the charge, and asked-nie to examine tbo law on the subject. 
I had done so, and told him under the statement he had made I could issuu a warrant 
for Mi. Gonlon's arrest if ho would file his affidavit according to the statement he had 
made. lie said he would come over some time and do so. Long some time after that 
conversation he named to mo one day, ^' I have spoken to Mr. Elliot, a constable in 
Athens district, tt\'elve miles off, to come out at his convenience and arrest Gordon." 
"When he came I was out of the way. The wan'ant was obtained of Squire Blair. 
Elliot went and arrested Gordon, and took him to Gibsons's house to guard him over 
night. They were in a room together, and four disguised men entered the room, and, 
under threats, they forced Gordon to relinquish some and sign certain papers, and 
ordered hi«n to leave the country. He did leave. Wo heard of the transaction. Ho 
left in a short time ; and it was a very short time after he left until his family lefL 
and there is an indictment out now against Gibson for that transaction. It was found 
in the last circuit court we had in our county. 

QucHiion. Is it known who were the other persons besides him concerned in this 

Answer. No, sir. Grordon accused certain men in the neighborhood of being the dis- 
guised party. He may be correct or mistaken. I gathered the most of these facta 
from the talk in the neighborhood, and from Mr. Grordon's publication after he went 
to Tennessee, forbidding any person trading for, or having anything to do with those 

Question. Was any use ever made of these papers after he signed them T 

Answer. Not that I know of. It was but a short time until Gordon forbade that. 

Question. Gordon has never returned to that neighborhood T 

Answer. No, sir. He was down here last fall, at the term of the circuit court of 
Limestone County. 

Question. Are there any other instance* you wish to state t 

Answer. I believe that is about all I know of. I would just simply remark now in 
regard to my own case, repeating what I have said, that while I think and have reason 
to believe that .the Blairs and Moore might use the political prejudice to accomplish a 
cowardly act which they had not the moral courage to perform themselves, I have no 
complaint, in a political way, to make against anybody. The people of my county 
have acted in my behalf extraordinarily. The commissioners* court met and made an 
appropriation of money, and employed the best couusel of the county to prosecute in the 
first case. 

Question. Captain Coleman told us about that yesterday. 

Answer. They have had a public meeting called, and the people have indorsed their 

Question. We have their resolutions here. 

Answer. 1 wish to make the further statement in regard to the people who have come up 
to my relief as nobly as they hQ-ve. I think they deserve full credit. Their mauifesU^ 
tions seem to show that they are determined to enforce the law if they can, or they 
will make the efforts at all events. 

Question. 1 was about asking you if you knew any instance in Limestone County, 
of colored people being whipped f 

Answer. I don't believe I can bring any instance to my mind in my section of the 
county. I have heard of a great dealof it up in the northeastern portion of the county. 

Question. Are you a reader of the newspapers published in Alabama! 

Answer. Not regularly. This Blair case and this Scales case are the only cases I can 
think of of any colored persons being whipped. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. Are there many colored persons living in that immediate neighborhood f 
Answa-. Not immediately. There are some two or three living witoin a naile of 
Dr. Blair's. There is one case I remember, I believe on the same niffht that tiiis 
Blair boy was scariffed so badly. There was a black woman whijpped, who was living 
on Dr. Blair's land, about a half or three-quarters of a mile from my house, on a 
new-settled place. She came to my house the next morning, and was telling my "wife 
and crying about how badly they had whipped her, and she immediately broke np 
that day, or commenced to move back two or three miles to her former owner. 

By the Chairman : 

Hion. What accoun 
^Mo/f^*. I do notremem^^... * «.vi «v« «v«* *v ***.. ^^ _ 

Question. Did you understand that it was done by disguised meiVtjOOQlC 
-iweirer. Yes, sir; disguised parties. o 

Question. What account did she ^ve of her being whipped t 
Answei: 1 do not remember. I did not hear it all. 


Question, Abont what time was tbatt 

Ansicar, I cannot tell exactly. It was done the same night that the Blair boy was 

Question, What was this Scales case you referred to two or three times ? 

Ansicer. Well, sir, I do not know. I take it somewhat from experience ; it is necessary 
to give a ^og a bad -name in order to get a good excuse to kill him. That man had 
the character of being a very impudent, dangerous negro, and had goue to two or 
three places in the neighborhood to white men and cursed them. 

Question, What was done with him T 

Anstcer, He was killed. 

Question. By whom f 

Answer. By disguised men. 

Question. When did this happen t , 

Answer. That happened in the early part of 1870, but I will not be certain. 

Question. How many were said to be m the band f 

Answer, Ten, I understood. 

Question. Was the matter investigated T 

Answer. It is under investigation now. Judge Common had some witnesses up 
before him last Saturday. He told me Saturday evening what facts had been 
developed in the case. They are hunting that case out. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. You are a justice of the peace now, are you, in Limestone f 
Answer. Yes, sir ; I would be if at home. 

Question. You hold your commission by appointment from Governor Smith ? 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. Whatever may have been the condition of your county in times go^e by, 
is it not a fact now that lul men of all political parties are endeavoring to restore quiet 
and peace in the country, and put down the lawlessness of disguised bands in every 

Answer. That is my belief and observation. 

QuesHon. Are your officials and officers of the law, as well as the citizens, showing 
very great vigilance in endeavoring to do so ? 

JfiMMT. Yes, sir; we are doing so ; and then m)portunitie8 are better now for getting 
information and acting than they have been. They seem to have shaken off that fear 
that they have been under of these bad men. 

Question. Public sentiment has not only turned against it, but assumed an active 

Answer. Yes, sir; an active form. That is just the way I wish to be understood. 

Question. For some time, while things seemed against public sentiment, it did not 
I to act? 

Answer. No, sir; and it was crippled, and the witnesses were netting out of the way. 

Qneetion. Now it is good, and especially when they think the law will pix}tect them, 
and they come up T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; my own is the only case where it has come forward and been 

Option. Some of vour officers are democrats and some republicans, but all are 
toting in concert on this subject T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

(>uestion. Is it not true that in that county you have always, perhaps, had a gang of 
bad men making a dishonest livingt 

Answer. Not to my knowledge. Before the war we were remarkably conservative in 

Question. I beg pardon ; €ince the war ? 

Answer. Since the war there has been everywhere. There were viciously disposed 
men in the army. Some practiced it while the war was going on. They would not 
stay in the arm^, but stay around home and steal. They called it capturing. They 
have been carrying it on ever since. 

Question. These bands of men have given you a good deal of trouble in the last few 

Answer. Yes, sir; it has been worse the present year than before, I think; that is, I 
have heard more of it. More horse-thieves nave been captured, and, as a general thing, 
I think, tibese horse-thieves have been captured with disguises. There is one case in 
Jail DOW at Athens. 

Question. They disguised themselves for the purpose of more secretly carrying on 
their devilment f 

Answer. Yes, sir. I regard— this is one thing I would like to have xmt in my main 
•▼idenoe, and I hope it will be no harm now— I regard these parties, as far as I knc-^ 


or have knowledge of them doing their deyilmeut, bo far as politics is concerned, as 
destitute of principle, and if the republican party were in miyority as the democrats 
are they would as easily be refpublicans as thoy now are democrats. 

Question, In other words, they are men who have no political principles or any other 
principles t 

Answer, No, sir ; no political principles nor stamina about them. 

Question. Yon think the old Ku-Klux organization was broken up in ^our county 
some time in 1869 1 

Answer. Yes, sir ; well, at the time this publication appeared. 

Question. After that law was passed ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was it not a^ fact that up to December, 1838, you had no means of punish- 
ing men who rode about with disguises on at all in Alabama unless they committed 
some offense ? 

Answer. No, sir ; there was no law touching a disguise ; no means of punishing 

Question. A man might be seen about town, and unless he committed some depreda 
tion you had no law which could reach him ? 

Answer. No, sir; at the same time there was a fear, when it first started, an awful 
horror was manifested of these disguised men. It was reported currently everywhere 
that if you said anything against one of them they would visit you, and if anything 
was said derogatory of any act they did they would take you out. These reports l>e- 
ing circulated-*-I do not pretend to say whether they were correct or not— it put, the 
whole body-poiitic under fear. ITiey were afraid of them. 

Question. The difliculty you had before December, 18r»8, was that unless you oanght 
them doing some mischief, the mere fact of their being disguised and in bauds did not 
enable you to reach the case under the civil law f 

An8tvei\ There was no civil law reaching the case. The law was passed in December, 
1868. It was very obnoxious for a while. 

By Mr. Buckley : • 

Question. Was not that law very bitterly assailed by the democratic press of this 
country ? 

Answer. Yes, sir; very. But some of those men that assailed it bitterly have taken 
hold of it and regard it now as the best law in existence ; Captain Coleman for one. I 
have heard him so express himself; he would not have the law repealed for any con- 
sideration. . 

By Mr. Beck : 
^ Qhestion. What were the Wisdoms' politics? 
Ansieei*. Tliey were democrats ; at least I think so. I never heard them say. 
Question. What were these other men who were charged with hog-stealing — Barbees? 
Answer. They were democrats. Gordon was a democrat. That is the man that run 
oflf to Tennessee. 

By the Chairman: 
Question. You have said that everybody else up there were democrats except your- 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Question. You said in your own precinct t 
Answer. 1 believe the Wisdoms and Gordon and this boy were in my precinct. 

By Mr. Blaik : 

Question. You attribute your treatment by these people <^tirely to the business diffi- 
culty you had with them t 

Answer. 1 attribute the start of it to the difficulty I had with them, the old gmdj^e 
between the Blairs and myself, who, as I have repeatedly stated, took advantage or a 
political prejudice in a class ot men who did not know me, to accomplish that which 
they lacked the moral courage to do themselves. They could never have any in- 
llue^nce with the old citizens of the county. These men are all adventurers, and, I 
think likely, a good many of them — a miyority of them — are men who cannot stay 
where they formerly lived. 

QuestUm. Bad men t 

Answer. Yes, sir. This Billy Blair formerly lived in Lauderdale County. After he 
had married and gone to himself, he lived in Lauderdale County for a number of years. 
I don^t know how long. He staid as long as he could. But he cannot live there. I 
have been informed by good reliable men that Blair cannot live in his old neighbor- 
hood. _ 


By tbe Chaiaican: 

QttetUtm, Toa say that the Kn-Klux law, enaotcd in December, 1868, by the Alabama 
Icgislatore, was bitterly assailed? 

Answer, Yes, sir; it was bitterly assailed and denonnc^. 

Question, By whom f ^ 

AMteer. By the democratic party, by the opposition to the republican party. That 
law was passed by a republican le^latnre. 

QwHion. How long did this denunciation of that law by the democratic party con- 

Answer. It continued up until about twelve months ago. 

QmesUon. What was the cause of their change of tactics, and why did they fall sud- 
denly in lore with the law f 

Answer. It was necessity. There was this Barbee matter, and these Wisdom boys,- 
and some few others, as many as some eight or ten, were accused, and probably Justly 
too, but I don't pretend to say. I never saw them to see whether they were in dis- 
guise, but they were under the accusation of riding around the country in dis^ise. 
visiting different places, and while they were at that, during the time they were riding 
around, th^ visited a Mr. Nixon, who resides near a church. They obtained paper, pen, 
and ink. They got the pen firom Mr. Nixon, and wrote a notice, and put it up on the 
church, naming certain men in the neighborhood, and accusing these men of being 
Ku-Rlux, and riding around in the country in disguise, disturbing honest men who 
were at their labor, trying to n^tke a living, and so on, and " If this thing is not stopped 
you ^^ die unawares." I he^rd the thing read, and I think that is pretty much the 
purport of it. I was at work at Mr. Gibson's during the time these parties were riding 
around. They were regular, every few days, for some two or three weeks, and nobody 
seemed to know who they were. Just from observation as I was working there at 
Gibson's and saw men coming to him, and talking together i>rivately, I saw at once 
that there were two elements at work. There was a counter-irritant somewhere, and 
I kept watch to see what would be the result of it. It finally resulted in the death of a 
fon of Dr. Blair, killed accidentally, and in the death of this man Barbee, whom they had 
pt out a warrant for. and |^ne and arrested him in Rogersville, and were bringing 
liiiD to jail, or ostensibly bringing him to jail, when ho made an attempt to get away, 
and was shot badly, but he got away. They found him next day, and he was killed. 

Qnestion. Do I understand that this reaction was caused by the killing of democrats 

Jaswer. Well, that is the way that the thing came out. The Wisdom boys were ar- 
nr^ited, a man named Miller was arrested, and a man named Goode was arrested— all 
under the charge of being out from home in grotesque disguise, &c., and they had to 
come. Oaptiiin Coleman was then one of the prosecutors in that case — perhaps the 
it-ading meuibor of the prosecution — and in order to reach these fellows, they had to 
take hold of this law that had been so obnoxious. 

Qwstum. Is that the time you referred to in your answer to Mr. Beck, whenthe spirit 
to eofarce the law commenced springing up t 

Answer. Tes, sir ; that is the time, and still from that time on. There has been a 
pretty strong manifestation from that time, but it has developed itself stronger in my 
C3^ than in any other. 

Qiiestion. 1 wish you to state to the committee on what grounds opposition was 
made by the democratic partyy 80 far as your knowledge and information extend, to 
the enactment of the Ku-Klux law of December, 1868. 

Answer. Well, sir, I can give no particular grounds, but generally the position of 
the party then, as I understood^the position of the democratic party as shown by 
«oziie public meetings and resolutions passed — ^was that they regarded the whole struc- 
ture of the State government then in existence as a usurpation and fraud. They did 
not consider it legal. 

Qsustian. Do I understand you to say that this law was not more denounced by them 
tban any other laws enacted by that republican legislature T 

jiuswsr. Well, I do not know that it was. There were several other laws— there was 
a ^eiMTal complaint against everything. 

Questum. But was not there a special complaint against this law, and did you. not 
iMiair it denounced more than any other act of that legislature? 

jAsiswer. Perhaps I heard more said about it. 

Question. Can yon state to the committee the reasons assigned for theic opposition 
to ttt 

j^MSwer. I do not know that I ever heard any special reason assigned outside of the 
coostAtutionality of it. 

By Mr. BxrCKLEY : , • 

Qsiestion. Did they not also deny the necessity for any such law j was not that the 
IB a in caase of complaint t 

^Mswer. I think this iras (iie way ; they never denied the necessity. I have heard this 

46a * 


Baid; and I was partly of the same opinion myself that the law was a nuUitv, from the 
fact that I did not see where they could reach these disguised parties. The tronhle 
was to find out. 

By the Chairman : 
•Question, Was the ground of denunciation that the law could not he put into oper 
ation f 

Answer, Well, I am not clear upon that. What political attention I paid was general. 

Queation. Did I understand you to state distinctly that this order of the Grand Cy- 
clops which you saw published in the newspapers, disbanding the organization of the 
Ku-Elux Klan, was made subsequently to the enactment of this law t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; that is m^ understanding; and I recollect distinctly it stated that 
they were disbanded in obedience to law. 

Questum. So that the Grand Cyclops recognized the validity of the law f 

Anstoer, Of course he did by that act. 

Question. 1 will ask you to state whether 4ny eflfort was ever made to cloture or punish 
members of the Ku-Klux Elan until within a few months past in Limestone County. 

Answei\ None, until within about twelve months, of these disguised parties. It is 
about that time, or within a short time of twelve months, I reckon. This advertise- 
ment I spoke of that was put on the church was in September, 1870, as I recollect, and 
it was during that mouth, I think, that the great excitement was in the neighborhood 
and the arrest of these men. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

QuesU^m, Do you think that these bands now riding, or riding until recently, over 
your county were members of the order or organization previous to the issuing of that 
order by the Grand Cyclops f 

Answei', There are some of them that I do. not think belonged to the old organization. 

Question, Some of them you think did f 

Answer. Some of them I think it likely did. I think this Moore was, fh)m informa- 
tion ; I think it is generally conceded that he was a Cyclops in the original organ- 

HuNTSvnxE, Alabama, October 10, ISfJl. 

WILLIAM H. LENTZ sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question, Where do you reside ? 

Answer, I reside in the county of Limestone, Alabama. 

Question. What office do you hold ? 

Answer, I hold the office of sheriff of Limestone County. 

Question, How long have you held that office f 

Answer, About three years. 

Question. Are you a native of that county f 

Answer, Yes, sir, I am. 

Question, Did you live in Alabama during the war, and have you lived in it ever 
since f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I was bom in the county of Limestone, and was raised in the same 
county. I live thirteen miles west of the county seat, though. 

Question. Please state to the committee what •instances of outrage upon individuals 
by men banded together, and in dis^ise, have come to your notice during the time 
you have been sheriff, throughout Limestone County ? 

Answer. I will have to study on that. Do you want me to give them all ? 

Question, I am asking in a general way about the number. 

Answer, Well, I think there have been from ten to fifteen somewhere. 

Question, Upon what class of people were most of the raids made ; white or black t 

Answer, Well, those raids have been made upon both classes, white and black. 

Question, Did you ever see any portion of this organization known as the Ku-Klnx iu 
their costumes f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; saw them as often as three times, I think. 

Question. In what year? 

Answer, Well, in the year 1868 I saw thirteen in our county town at one time, and 
at another time I saw some twelve or fifteen. I did not count them. The day of the 
presidential election they came in town there. 

Question, You may describe, briefly, the disgubes they wore. First state ^hetlier 
they were mounted or on foot t m 

Answer, They were mounted. 

Question. Were their horses disguised T C^ r\r\r^\o 

Ans%oer, Yes, sir ; they were covered— disguised. Digitized by VjUU^IC 

Question, Go on and describe the character of the disguise. 


Awwer* The disgrnses, I pTesume, "were made of calico — a kind of calico robes loosely 
irorn, and then a disguise oyer the &ce. 

Qii«9(um. How do the disguises that have been worn in 1870 and 1871 compare with 
those that were worn in 1868 T 

Antwer. I have not seen any in 1|B70 and 1871, only some that were captured the other 
day, and they compare very well. In arresting a man we got three disguises some 
three weeks ago. 

Quesiion. The disguise covered the body, the head, and the fooe, I understand f 

Ansicer. Yea, sir. 

Qiteslion, Was there anything hideons abont the facef 

Answer. Yes, sir. There is long hair, I suppose about a foot long, coming out as if it 
were mnatachee, hanging down at least a foot 

(ivtution. Any horns on the head f 

Answer. No, sir ; no horns. 

(inestum. Do you know where these disguises were manufactured T 

Anewer. I do not. 

Quesfum. Did they show skill in their construction f 

Answer. Yes, sir; some skilL 

Qustian. Yon say a company rode into Athens on the day of the presidential election t 

Answer. Yes, sir. * 

(ftiestUm. At what hour in the day did they visit the town f 

Answer. About eight o'clock in the morning. 

Question. How long did they remain f 

Answer. About half an hour, I presume. 

QmesUon. What did they do while in the town ? 

Answer. They did not do anything. 

Question. Did they ride around the streets I 

Answer. They rode up on the west side of the square, and through the 8quare,.and down 
io where we had some soldiers camped, and talked with them a few minutes, and then 
locle out the way they came in. 

Question. Did you hear the conversation between them and the soldiers T 

Answer. No, sir. 

Qu/estUm, Do you know what they saidf 

Aw&wer. J hea^ what it was. 

QuesHon. Wbat was it f 

Amswer. They told the commander of the squad, so he told me, to keep order there 
that day, and, if he could not keep order, to call upon them, and they would help him 
assist him to keep order among the citizens, the voters. 

QuesUon. Was any disorder apprehended 7 
Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Who did these gentlemen think or say would create disorder f 
Answer. They did not say. They said if he could not keep order, to call upon them to 
assist, and they would assist. 
Question. How strong was that military squad in yonr town f 
Answer. About twenty. 
Question. Were they Federal soldiers T 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How long had they been located in your town f 

Answer. About two days. They came down just two days before the election, to stay 
dndng the election. 
Question. Had it been noised throughout the county that these soldiers were there f 
Answer. No, sir. 

Question. There was a possibility that these Ku-Elux did not know whether these 
soldiers were there until they got there ? 

AnssBsr. I am not prepared to say whether they knew it or not, but I think it is likely 
t^OT must have known it. 

Question^ What do yon know of the negroes being visited and their arms taken away 
^ these bands in disguise f 

Answer. Well, I do not know anything. I heard that in the eastern and southern por- 
tions of the county, they went down tlm)ugh there as often as two or three times, and 
that they have taken their arms £com them — guns and pistols. 
Question. Were they taken away from tKe blacks generally } 
Answer. Yes, siit 

Quation. Every man who was suspected of having arms in his possession was 
Answer. Yes, sir; in that portion of the county. 
Qmestiom. In what year was that 9 
Answer. In the year 1868. 

Question. Do yon know upon what pretext the Kn-Klux seized the furms of these 
colored people f 


Answer, Na sir; I do not. 

QueaHon. Have yon many colored people in Limestone Oonnty t 

Answer, Yea, sir ; we have a good muiy in the southern portion of the oonnty. Very 
few in the jaoithem and western portions of the county. 

QuesUon. Have many men been diiren into exile^m apprehensions of the Ku-Elux 
in your county of Limestone t 

Answer, There have been to my recollection three or four. 

Question, Men who have been yisited by the Ku-Klux, or to whom notices have been 
sent f 

AnstDer, Yes, sir; one in particular— Mr. Gordon— has been driven ftom there; he 
was, I suppose, intimidated and driven away from there. 

Question, Have you reason to believe that Uiere was a regular Ku-Klnx organization 
in your county at one time f 

Answer, Tes, sir ; I think there was. 

Question, Do you know of any men who belonged to it t 

Answer, No, sir ; I do not. 

Question. Did public repute fix upon any one as ibe leader t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, What do you know of this man Moore, whom you have transferred to the 
jail in tbis^county n>r safe-keeping, being reputed to be a captain in one of these 
organizations f 

Answer, Well, I think, it is generally believed that he is a captain or leader of the 
entire organization up to a late day. 

QuesHon. Is he the democratic candidate for sheriff at this time in your county 9 

Answer, He claims to be a democrat ; he is not the democratio nominee for wieriff ; 
he is an independent candidate. 

Question, How strong was the order reputed to be in your county at any time f 

Answer, During its existence T 

Question, Yes, sir. 

Answer, Well, sir, I have no idea ; it was considered by most of mem to be tolerably 

Question. Do you know what were its objects t 

Jnmrer. No, sir; I do not. \ 

Question, You may state if you saw published in the newspapers at the time, an 
order from the Grand Cyclops disbanding the different Ku-Klux organizati(ms. 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I saw a notice signd by the Grand Cyclops, and, I think, it was 
published, as well as I recollect, in two numbers or probably three numbers of our 
county paper. 

Question, Is your county paper a republican -or democratic paper f 

Anstcer. A democratic paper. 

Question, State whether that notice stated that the order was given pursuant to the 
passage of a law by the State, denouncing this Kn-Klux organization. 

Answer. 1 think, as well as I recollect, that it occurred bSore the passage of the Ka- 
Klux law, as it is called. 

Question, Was it not in the summer — about June, 1869~that this order was published^ 
a little upward of two years since f 

Answer, 1 do not remember the time it was published. 

Question, Did not the order state that it was made in pursuanoe of a law passed 
against the Ku-Elux organization T 

Answer, I am not sure about that ; it might have been, and might not ; I will not say^ 
positively about that. 

Question, You remember the law to which I refer, do you, passed by the Alabama leg- 
islature in December, 1868 f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Was that law a very unpopular one with the democrats of Limestone 
County T 

Answer, I think, generaUy speaking, it was at the time. 

Question. Have any of the men concerned in these Ku-Elux raids ever been brought 
to punishmeut in your county f 

Answer, Well, we have some under bond at this time. 

Question, My Question was, whether any one has ever been brought to punishment f 

Answer, No, sir ; no. sir. 

Question. Until witnin the last £bw months, were any active efforts ever made io. 
your county to bring them to justice f 

Answer, WeU, the grand jury of the fall term of our court, of 1870, found two indict -- 
ments against parties. 

Question, Was that the first time your courts had taken notice of these outrages t 

Answer, Yes, sir, the first time that they got any proof of any person that had. 
been committing outrages. 


QmMotu Had aetive efforts been made previous to tliat time to obtain proof of tbe 
anUiors of these ontrages t 

AnnBer, Tee. air. 

QuestUm, Who made themselyes active or bosy in that f 

Answer. Well, our grand jurors had a great many witnesses sommoned ap^ bat tliey 
never got any proof until the fall term of 1670. At the spring term of 1870 we bad a 
great iDaoy witnesses summoned up on the Ku-Klux question. 

(iwttkm. Had anv effort ever been made to bring these parties to the sotioe of the 
gnmd jury before the spring term of 1870 in your oounty court t 

AnstDtr. No, air ; I think not. 

QuesHon, What was the reason of that omission I 

Awaer, I do not know, sir. 

Qaetthn, It is reputed that there has been a falling oat amMig these laitter-day Kn- 
Kloi in yonr oonnfy f 

Jnwer. WeU, it was reputed that there was a fiblUnf oat among them in the fall 
of 1870. This case I speak of now, down in the forks of the Tennessee and Elk Rivers 
-or at least there was a party of disguised men supposed that otheora wese ^eing 
about diegoised ; they had a falling out, and there were several parties arrested, and 
we have two of them in Jail at this time, and two others oat on bond ; we hiid no 
Bpniig term of court last spring, consequently they have had no trial. 

QvaHon, Was any active effort ever made to bring the members of this Eo-Klox 
organization to justice until they commenced making system&tie depredations i^Mn 
property and visiting democrats as well as Union men 7 

Answer. No, sir ; there was not to my knowledge ; theie were no denonstrationft BMide 
to bring any parties to justice until alter the disbandment by the Grand Cydopa— by 
the adrertffiement being put in the paper. 

Qmtkn. Not a single case until after that time I 

Answer. No, sir ; not until after that time. 

Qwiium, Does there seem to be a general disposition among your people now, with- 
out reference to jparty, to breskk up this organization f 

Answer. Tea, sir. 

QneatUm, About how many white men in Limestone County vote the republleast 

Answer. Six or seven hundred ; six hundred, I will say. 

QuesHon. White men ? 

Anmcer. Freedmen. 

Qftestkm. But I ask as to white men f 

Answer. There are very few ; I suppose there are fifty. 

QnaHan. How many of these are northern men f 

^i»twer. Very few ; we have very &w northern moB in our countfy. 

QuesUon. Is there any prejudice existing in your conmiunity against northern men f 

Answer. No, sir. 

By Mr. Blair : 

QuotkHi. Ton say, that at the time the Ku-Slux appeajre^ <m the aftieet st Athens 
ue fioldiers were there T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qveilioii. Had they been broa^^ there previous to the election f 

iancer. Tes, sir j they came there about two days, as well as I recollect, befbce th« 
^^01^ and remained until after the election. 

Q^usUon, Was there any apprehension of disturbance f was that the reason they 
veie brou^t there f 

Answer. Tes, sir ; it was thought probable that there might be some disturbanoe. 

Qwstion. They were brought there on that account f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

QnesHon. I thought you answered, in reply to a question aboat these Km-Kkn and 
weir pretension that they wanted to preserve order, that you did not know of Miy 
^prehension of disorder f 

Answer. Well, we were apprehensive that there might be some disturbaoGSb 

Qtiestum. And the troops were called there to prevent it f 

'^Mtwer. Yes, sir ; to prevent it if they did anything. 

By the Chairhan 9 
QvtiUm. Was application made for the troops by any citizens of your coont? f 
isnoer. No, sir; 1 made the application myself to the general conmianding the post 


By Mr. Beck: 
teiCiM. After the soldiers arzived, you felt compaaratively secure at that election 
wit ibere would be no disturbance f I C 

^uwer. Yes, sir ; I ftlt that they would keep^ oocdsr, pseserve order. -^ 


Question. Those men in disgaise, when they came in, simply ofifered to aid them, pro- 
vided aid was necessary f 

Answer. Yea, sir ; they told them that if there was any disturbance, or if they ooold 
not keep order, in other words, to call on them, and they would assist them. 

QussUon^ There were more soldiers than Ku-Kluxf 

Answer. Yes, sir. * 

Question. In case of a controversy with the soldiers, the soldiers would have had a 
decided advantajy^e f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; the advantage of number. 

Question. Did not their going to the soldiers in the way they did, show that tbey had 
no other design than a friendly one, as far as the soldiers were concerned f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Thejr approached them in a confident and friendly manner? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Their conversation was friendly f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. At that time you had no law in Alabama punishing men for ridinc in dis- 
guise in any number they pleased f ^ 

Answer. No. sir: none at the time* 

QuesHon. Tnerefore the soldiers did not regard their conduct as violating the law ?* 

Answer. No, sir. 

QuestiUm. The^ did not act npon it as such f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. And the conversation between them and the soldiers was of a friendly 
character t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, That order, you think, was disbanded about the time the order came out, 
from whoever was their commander f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I think it was. 

QuesHon. Have you any reason to believe that the men who have been disguising 
themselves since that time, and committing depredations upon black and white men, 
have been anything else tnan lawless men, assuming disguises to commit depreda* 

Anewer. I hUve none. 

Question. Is that your opinion t 

Anewer. Yes, sir ; that is my opinion ; that it has been made a personal matter in our 

Question. A mere personal matter t 

Answer. Yes. sir. 

Question. Wnere men have sought the cover of night 'and disguise, to effsct bad pur- 
poses of their own t 

Anstoer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Is that your understanding of it f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Some of the men who have been in it may have been in the original gang, 
or not ; but I suppose you do not know f 

Answer. I do not know anything about it. 

Question. So far as you have discovered, the men who have been operating under dis- 
goise of late have generally proved to be men of comparatively worthless ^araoter ? 

Answer. The bulk of them. They have generally proved to be bad characters — bad 

Question. Their quarrels, and whippings, and wrongs have been inflicted upon white 
democrats as well as upon colored men, have they not f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. The Wisdoms, for Instance f 

Answer. The Wisdoms are democrats. 

(Question. TheBarbeest 

Answer. Barbee was a democrat. 

Question. Was not hekilledf 

Answer. He was killed. 

By Mr. Blaib: 
Question. And Gordon t 
Answer. Gordon was a democrat. 

By Mr. Beck: 
Question. Gordon was run off f 

Answer. Yes, air; and old man Simmons— I never knew his politics. He was a Ten- 
nesseean. >Oq1p 

Question, You have always been a republican yourself; I believe t o 


Antwer. Tee, sir. 

Qitettian, Your coanty attorney is a democrat, and your county judge is a repub- 

Amncer, Tes, sir. 

Quatian, Has not your whole county .organization^ ever since you have been able to 
find out the names of the men committing outrages in disguise, acted together to bi:ing 
them to justioe very efficiently f 

Antwer. Yes, sir ; since we have been able to get any proof against them, they have 
been willing, and the community generally have been willing to assist me in making 

QueaHon, You have held public meetings, also, expressive of your views f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Qmestion. Begardleas of party f 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Have you any doubt that, with the feeling and temper of your people now, 
lod the disposition of your courts, and the organization of your grand juries under 
the management of your county, you can keep order from this time on f 

Answer. No. sir ; I have no doubt but what we can. 

QnestUm. I oelieve you call everything that appears in disguise Ku-Klux, even if it 
Is only one man t 

Amswer. Yee, sir; everything that appears in disguise is Ku-Klus. 

QmestiKm. It is a good name, and it sticks T 

Amswer, Yes, sir. 

QmmHon. That is a means of characterizing that class of offenses, no matter by whom 
committed, or what the degree of offense f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qmesiwti. Or what the disguise is f 

Am9W€t. Yes, sir. There are different colors of disguise; some are red and some are 

By the Chairman ; 

Q moHi s n ^ Have you any reason to believe that the Kn-Klux who appeared in your 
streets on the day of the presidential election had any knowledge that the soldiers 
were there before they came T 

Answer. I do not know, sir. I think you asked me that question awhile ago. I do 
not know. It is probable they might have known it. It is possible they might have 
known it. They nad been there from Friday evening, I think, until Monday or Tues- 

QuetdUm. H it was known that the soldiers were there, it was known they were 
there fi>r the purpose of preserving the peace, was it not f 

Answer. Yes, sir; of course it was. 

QmesUan. Is it not possible that the Ku-Kluz were taken by surprise when they came 
into town on that day, and changed theij; original purpose in consequence of the pres* 
oice of the squad of soldiers T 

Anamtr. I do not know how that is. I think not, because the^ came in and rode 
straight on down to where the soldiers were encamped. I think it is likely they knew 
where they were in camp. . 

(imm^Mn. Might they not have got their information on their way to townf 

Awsmtr. It is possible that thev cotdd. 

QuetlfaMt. If they knew the soldiers were there for the purpose of preserving the 
peace that day, there was no necessity for the Ku-E[lux coming there for that purpose f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Qiiesium. Does it not seem to argue, therefbre, that when they started from their 
homes they had no knowledge of the presence of these soldiers ? 

Anawcr. Yes, sir ; it seems to argue that way, but I do not know about that, and I 
can't say. 

QiMftiOfi. I believe I have asked you this question already, substantially, but I wiil 
repeat it. Was there any general complaint against the Eu-Klux in your county, while 
Uiey confined their demonstrations to colored men f 

Answer. I do not know that I understand your question. 

Qves^ioii. Was there any general complaint against the Kn-Klux in your county, 
wlule they confined their demonstrations to colored men f 

AMswtfr. They never confined their operations among colored men entirely. They 
were visitinj^ white men as well as colored men, during the existence, as we term it, 
of the organization. 

QiwtlMm. Were the white men visited radicals f 

Answer. I think both classes were visited to some extent. 

Qm0»Hoii. By the original Ku-KluxT 

Jimpsr. Yes, sir. 

Digitized by ^ 



By Mr. Buckley: 

Question, This man whom you have in jail here was qnite a leading man^ was he not, 
in his part of the county ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Questum, Quite a xiopnlar man there T 

Answer. Tes, sir; I suppose he was among his class of men. 

Question, Do you think that he has been lor a long time a member of that order or 
organization f 

Ansu)er, Yes, sir ; I think he has been a member of it dnring its existence, fh>m the 

Question, And when the order was given to disband, he did not obey that order t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; that is my opinion about it. 

Question, Was it not about the time that these Wisdoms got into trouble, that there 
was a {ailing out? Was it not about the time that they were whipped or outraged 
that there was a falling out between the different clans or bands of men? 

Answer, Well, the Wisdoms are the ones charged with ffoing in disguise. 

QuesUon, And they were also visited by some men in dUguuef 

Answer, Yes, sir ; they were visited. 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question, This man Moore, it seems, kept a distillery in one comer of your county f 

Answer. Yes, sir; until last year, 1870. Then he moved down where so much of this 
trouble has occurred. There he has located another distillery. 

Question, An illicit distillery f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Is it not a fact in your part of Alabama, as well aa eUewheie, that 
around these illicit distilleries there is always a crowd of bad ll^owa? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. And the fellow who keeps the still has a good deal of inflnenoe with tfaa# 
class of people. They are his strikers ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; my opinion is that nineteen-twentieths of the oases of lawlessness 
are concocted in these distiUeries. We have a number of them, and are breaking them 
up now. 

Question, Is it not the fact that those carrying on these distilleries ooUeot aroon ^ 
them a ^ang of low fellows, to protect them against the offlceis, and pay these men- 
their strikers and retainers—in whisky T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. And in Eastern Tennessee and in North Carolina it has been so t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, And Moore was a king-bee among that class, was he notf 

^fi«i£^*. Yes, sir. 

Question, And ther^y obtained a certain amount of influence with that ohax<aeter 
of people f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

By the Chjjbman : 
Question. Did ^ou ever know a republican who belonged to one of these bands t 
Answer, No, sir. 

HuNTSViLLB, Alabama, Odolber 10, 1871. 
SAMUJSL HOBTON sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 
Question, Where do you live f 
Answer. In Blount County. 
Question. How long have you lived there f 

Answer, I have lived there some thirteen years, until the last ten mouths, when they 
drove me out. 
Question. What is your age f 
Answer. Sixty-six years old. 
Question. Of what State are you a native f 

Answer, 1 was bom and raised in South Carolina, in Newbeny Dlstriot. 
Qtt«8tum. Bow long have you lived in Alabama? 
Ansu}er. Thirteen years. 

Question. You moved thirteen years ago to Blount County f 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Were you there during the war T r^ i 

Answer, Yes, sir. Digiti,,^ by GoOglc * 


QuetUoM* Have yoa many colored people in that ooanty f 

AMwer, Well, there is right smart ia places. 

QuesUofi, Did ybu ever see any of this Ka-Klux Klaa in Blount County f 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

Question. When did yon first see them f 

Answer. It was in Octoher last ; I reckon about the 10th— -twelve monchs ago. 

Question, How many did you see then T 

AMwer. I saw four. 

Qnestioru Were they disguiaedf 

Answer. Tes,sir. 

Question. On foot or on horsehack t 

Answer. On foot 

Question. How were they diagoised f 

Answer. I just saw them through a crack in the house. Their aprons or gowns looked 
to be striped — black and white, X think. 

Quoi^ium. Tou had heard of thou before that I 

Ansfwer. Tes, sir. 

Question. Often t 

Antwer. Tes, sir. Maybe I had better go back, and tell you the first start of it. 

Question. Goon. 

Answer. Tou recollect when the United States court sat here at this place, and Judge 
Bosteed was he ro 

By Mr. Buckley : 

QuesMon. Some two years ago f 

Answer. Yes, sir, I think it was. I was summoned here to attend court. I left home 
in the morning, and ^t as to as Ju^^ Hale's, thirteen miles the other side of t^e river, 
fhrael put up and staid all night. Betore I laid down, two of them came in and sauntered 
araund through the house, and talked to the man of the house and his children a little and 
went o£t Me and the gentleman of the house sat there until ten o'clock or maybe later, 
sod he told a couple of lads there to go into the other room and kindle a fire and light 
the candle for me to go to bed. I went in, and we sat by the fire awhile, me and a 
emiple of chunks of boys. One of them remarked to me, '* We had as well lie down : 
then thnifls will be back here directly.'' I had not been in bed twenty minutes until 
it went like thirty geese all around the outside of the house, making with their bilk 
sod coming to the door, '' HiUooI Hilloo!" The boys, them chunks of lads, said, " O, 
yes, there they are." One remarked to the other, " I shan't get up." The other says, 
^ Get up ; it will make them mad, and they will be just that much worse." The boys 
got up and lit the lamp, and set it on the fire-board, and they came in and stooped 
about with their gowns on ; stooped down so they could just cleverly walk, and went 
about over the m>u8e stooping, with a great white face and black-looking beard, as 
well as I recollect, when they twisted their mustaches. One was black and the other 
white. One stood in the door: the others sauntered around the house. At last they 
came to the bed and asked the boys, [in a thin treble voice,] '^ Who is this f The boys 
said they had an old gentleman staying all night there. He said, [in a thin treble 
voice,] '' What is he t" Another said, [in deep bass,] ^' A damned rad." 

By the Ohaibman : 

Question. That means radical t 

AaMoer. Yes, sir. This time I began to feel sort o' spotted. I didn't even have a 
pocket-knife. They came to the bed ; one came to the root and the other to the head ; 
w^ the one at the foot smelled all around at the foot of the bed, and he si^^ [in deep 
bass,] " He's a damned old rad." The other one said, [in sharp treble,] " Is he fat f" 
The other answered, [in bass,] " Yes." The other said, [in treble,] " Well, we'll eat him 
then ; get out of the becl." I raised on my elbow and says, '^ Look here, gentlemen, 
you wm have tolerably tough eating; I am getting tolerably old now, and it looks to 
me hke I would be tolerable tough eating?' They ordered me again to get up. By 
this time the holt of the middle ooor flew open, and the man of uie house came into 
tile room. He says, '^ Now, look here, the like of this shan't be done here." They said, 
" By God, we'll eat you." He says, "Well, cut in on me ; but when travelers puta up, 
tbey are not to be imposed on." They jawed awhile, and the coarse-talking one says, 
Tin baas,) '* Let's go," and they jerked out of the door, and all of them jumped on their 
nonet, and you would have thought there was a hundred whistles ; they jumped on 
their horses and they went ofL 

ByMr. Bboe: ' 
Ques^km. Where was thatf 
Asmser. Colonel EUde^ old stand. 

By the Ceaibman: ogi^zed by GoOqIc 

Question. Did you see the disguises f ^ 


Anstoer, They had horns about that long, [18 inches,] and they had long ga>wtis, 
down here, [iUastrating.] 

QueaUon, You say you were on yonr way here at that time to attend conrt as a grand 
juror ? 

Afuwm'. No, sir ; as a witness, coming here. 

QuestUm. Jn wliat case were you subpoenaed as a witness f 

Answer, In a case concerning an election between two men here in Blount. 

QueaHon, Was it generaUy mown you were coming here as a witness T 

Answer, Well, yes, I reckon ; the officer had been down in our settlement summon- 
ing a day or two, and I reckon they saw him coming down ; I can't tell. 

QuesHan, Was it a case of contested election f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Was the contest between a radical and a democrat f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I think so. 

QtiestUm, Do you recollect for what office it was f 

Anstoer, Well, the man that was elected was killed between here and Dalton. I can't 
recollect his name. 

Qtiestion, Killed by whpm f 

Answer, I can't tell you ; I wasn't about. 

Question. Was it said that he was Ku-Kluxed t 

Answer, 1 think that was the opinion of the thing. 

Question, The man in whose favor the decision was made f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I think it was ; well, then this thing died out. I will go on and 
state to you about the balance of it. This court business died out . 

Question, Before you get to that, state where Colonel Hale's house is. Is it in Madi- 
son or Blount County ? 

Answer, I don't remember ; it's either Blount or Morgan, but it's yon side of the river, 
and it's right in the comer. It's only a little distance into either one. Well, I went 
home from court here, and about twelve months ago, I think, as well as I can recol- 
lect now, they rode up, four, to my house, that is, to the fence, within twenty or thirty 
steps of the house. They lit and came into the yard. Brother Hale and Brother Heara 
were there all night with me, and their wives. I heard, [in treble,] " HiUoo ! hlUoo !" 
My daughter got up and went to the door and asked them what they wanted. << O, 
nothing} only we have a little settlement to make with the old man that we'd like to 
make.'" She says, " You will riot make it to-night." " What t" She says, " He has 
gone ipom home." I was lying in bed ; she was scared to death. They said, ^ Where 
w he f She says, " I think he went to Daniel Murphy's." " Where's that f " About 
a mile and a half from here." "Which way will we go f "Just go out to the gate, 
and take that trail, and it will carry you right there.'' " Very well : tell the old man 
we will settle with him in a few days." While thej was talking, I could have put my 
hands through the cracks and pulled off two of their caps, but my wife and the olrber 
women beg^d to have no fuss, and I held still. 

Question. How many rode up to your fence t 

Answer, Four. 

Question, At what hour of the night was it I 

Answer, Ten o'clock, I reckon. 

Qtiestion, Had you retired to bed t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

By Mr. BucBiiEr : 
QuesHon, Was that last October f 
Answer, Yes, sir ; twelve months ago. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, Have you any knowledge of who any of these parties were t 

Answer, No^ sir ; I don't know timt I have. 

Question, Have you any knowledge of who any of the men were who visited you at 
Colonel Hale's f 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, What hour of the night was it when they came to Colonel Hale's 9 

Answer, That was between eleven and twelve o'clock. 

Question. Were the family abed f 

Answer, Yea, sir; we all had laid down. Me and the man of the house had beea 
sitting up talking until late; it was between 11 and \^, I reckon. 

Question, Were the men disguised in 1870 in the same way thatTthey were' at Hale's f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; pretty much the same garb. 

Question, Did those men who spoke to your daughter, and to you, talk in disgaised 
voices f 

Answer, Yes, sir; just as I talked to you ; Just about as broken as I talked to yen 


jofii now. I think that that meeting commenoed at 6nm Grove, the Friday after the 
second Sunday in October. 

QuesiUm. What October f 

Answer. Last October, twelve months ago. 

QnegUom, There was a camp-meeting held there f 

Afuwer. Tes, sir; at Gnm Grove. Well, on Monday night, it was iast after candle- 
light service oommenoed, the company had got together under the arbor, and, I think, 
maybe the first preacher had about eot through what he was going to say. There 
waft a right smart stir-up, and he was just about to come down m>m the stand to the 
altar, and the whistle went " Whew, whew, whew." 

Queaiion, A good many of them f 

Answer. O, yes, sir; it appeared like it mought have been fifty of them. 

QmegHon. The same kind of whistles you had heard before at Colonel Hale's and at 
year house! 

Answer. Yes, sir ; and directly along (a pause) bane, (short pause) bang, just about 
that Gut apart. The preachers all just dodged out ana left. The candles were all put 
out, and the congregation was like a gang of partridges. They went every way. 

QmestUm. Where cud this shooting appear to come from f 

Amswer. From the east side of the camp-ground. I staitT there. I thought I Would 
wait until the stir was over, and then go to ray tent, live or die. I looked after the 
preachers as they went out, and looked around and the ooneregation was all gone. It 
was a clear light. I could see my shanty as plain as I see that book. 

Qitesticn. Where had they gone — ^to their tents or home t 

Answer. I couldn't find them. I walked to my tent and sat down, and directly twelve 
men walked up and began to talk pretty big, and remarked to me they believed I had 
stood. Says I, "What would I run for ? There would be no use in running." WeJl, 
they turned around, talking to my daughter, and one of them says, " You believe that 
when you die you .will go to Lakin f" **No," says she, " I don't know." "Oh, yes, 
by God, you do," he says. 

QussUon. Lakin I Who do you refer to f 

Answer. Lakin was our presiding elder. 

QnesUon. Was he at that meeting f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; he was there. 

Question. Had he preached that night ? 

Answer. No, sir; 1 don't think he preached that night. 

Qnestion. Go on with your story. 

Answer. " Well," says my daughter, ** why don't you go and talk to Lakin ? Why 
don't you go and talk to Lakin f ' And says he, " Oh, by God, he is not to bo found." 
" How do you know f " says she. He says, " He is not, without he is in your tent." 
Says sheu " He is not there, and if you go to Brother Bill Anderson's you can look for 
him.'' "No^" they said, " he can't be found." They said, " All we want is to see old 
LaMn, and if we do," says he, " I'll be God damned if he ever preaches to you again. 
If he ever undertakes to preach here again he will land in hell before he gets it done. 
Just let him try it." Well, I believe that is about as much as I know concerning that 
scrape. » 

Question. You saw, upon that occasion, only about twelve Ku-Klux f 

Answer. I think there was between ei^ht and twelve around my fire. 

Question. From the sound of the whisUes, how many did you think there were actually 
abou^ there T 

Question, Brother Jim Hale's wife's tent was next to where they were, and she said 
there was about fifty, and from the firing of the guns as they went off, most any man 
would have thought there was about fifty. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. Were they disguised? 
Answer. Yes, sir ; when they rode off they were hollering and shooting and cursing. 


Question. Did you see them then t 

Answer, Ko. sir. 

Question. Those you saw were disguised ? 

Answer. No, sir ; they had pulled off their garb when they came to the fire. I didn't 
see any disguises at that time. Just before the shooting, three walked around the 
arbor and stood against the posts that were disguised. 

Question. Did you^know any of those* men that came to your tent and wanted to find 

Answer. Yes. 

Question. Did xhey live in that neighborhood? ^ j 

Answer. Yes, sir. Digitized by vjOOQIC 

Question, Have you any objections to giving their names ? 

732 ooNDinoN op apfaies m the southern states. 

Atm^r. Well, I would rather not yet, because, I will tell you, I can't etay there, nor 
ain't going to. I am not going back among them. Now, let me finUb* About a week 
or ten days after that thev eot so hot agamst me and my folks I coQcluded we would 
move back to €kK>rgia, and &ed up. My son lived about two milee and a half or three, 
on that road, and we went on that far the first day. That night, just after we had laid 
down, at 9 or 10 o'clock, they sat there talking, and up rides something to the door, (in 
shrill treble,) '^ Hilloo I hiUoo I Open the door/' Well, they came in. I still laid in Uie 
bed for some time. At last they ordered me up, and my son begged me. and the &unily 
all begged me to get up. I got up jast to satisfy them. *' wSSl out I'' '* No, I shan't 
walk out." They all still b^ged me to come out, and I went out and went off from 
the house with them, I reckon thirty steps, and they asked me several questions. I 
told them that it was an arrant li^ and everybody knows it's a lie. 

By Mr. Beck: 

Qu49tUm, State the questions they asked you. It will save time herea&er in the cross- 

AuBVoer. In the time of the camp-meeting m^ son's wife lost a baby, and people said 
it had a perfect case over its face, and horns just like the Ku-Klnx. Well, you see, 
they had packed that on me, and I didn't take it, because I never looked at it. Tbey 
talked on awhUe, and one of them says : ''God damn you, don't you think you ought 
to be whipped a little about that?" I says, ''Well, I don't know, that is with you." He 
says, (in thm treble,) " Well, I think you ought to." He got him a hickory ; I suppose 
it was 3 feet long. At that my son stepped in between him and me. I says, " Go away : 
let Mm hit me ; let him stris:e me one lick." Well, he turned ronnd and round, and 
wavered the Switch over me a whUe. At last he concluded he wouldn^t whip me if 
I would leave the countoy, and go off. 

By the Chairman : 

QwsHon, When was that t 

Answer, About twelve months ago. 

Question, Soon after this camp-meeting f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; within eight or ten days. 

Qtceatum. How many men visited yon that night f 

Answer, Four? 

Qu^Han, Were they disguised ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Had they arms ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; they had pistols ; lots of them^ 

QuestUm. You were then on the way to Greorgia ? 

Answer, Yes. sir. 

QnesUon, Did you go to Georgia ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I eot back about three weeks ago. I fetched my fiunily. 

QwsHon. Have you oeen living in Blount County since you got back ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Where you formerly lived ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Right at the same place ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; right at the same ^lace. 

Question, Have they disturbed you since you came back? 

Answer* Yes, sir ; a gentleman rode up about ten or fifteen days after I came and told 
me a man told him that evening that I should not stay there. I didn't give him no 
answer. I said, I expected to attend to my own business, and I am in liopes other 
people will. He says, " Well, he told me to tell you." I says, " Copeland, who was he ? ** 
He says, "He told me to use no names," and he went oS, I believe ^lat ends about 
the length of what I know of scrapes in any way. 

Qwestwn, What pique had these Ku-Klux against yon ? 

Answer, Well, that scrape was because I had said this child had on a false fiE|ce. 

Question, Becaase you had said this child of your son's wife had on a false f^^ee ? 

Answer, I said Jake Dines told me it had, and Doctor Coker. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Qu/estian. Where does he live ? 
Answer, Bight at Sully. 

By the Chairman : 

Questi»n, What did Doctor Coker teU you ? 

Answer, They both said it had that kind of fftoe. 

Qtiestum. What kind of face, a Ku-Klux &ce? 

Answer, Yes ; and Dines begged me to go in and look at it, and said thai it had % 
Ku-Elux £ftce on. I told him Twouldn't ; that there wasn't enough money to hire me 
to look at it. ^ 


Q^ MHom . Did tii^ Mty it had honiBt 

Awwer. Tes. sir; abont that long, (fiDger-loDgth.) 

Qmmtim* What other 8igi» of Kn-Klax had it f 

Answer. I don't remember. Doctor Goker and Mr. Jake Dines both saw it. Doctor 
Ooker tells Dines it was that sort, and then Dines went down and looked at it, and then 
Dines told me. Him and Coker both pronounced it a Kn-Klux. , 

Qmestion. How lon^ did the child live after its birth T 

Answer. I don't think it ever drawed a breath. 

QuesUon. It was regarded as a monstrosity f 

Answer^ Tes, sir. 

QnestUm. Was it the general belief that snch a child had been bom t 

^fwirer. Yes, sir. 

QnesHon, How many people hare yon ever heard speak of it f ' 

Answer. Oh, it was wken on the oamp-gronnd, and all the oamp-meeting saw it. 

Question. Did anybody tell you the fact that such a child had been bom with such 
marks on it f 

Anstoer, Yes, sir ; a few did, but I don't remember. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Questiou. These four men who came to whip you had heard of itf 

Answer. Yes, sir; firom the way they talked to me they had. 

Question. Are there any other times when you have seen any Ku-Klux in that 
county t 

Mmoer. No; I think that is about aU the times I have seen any. 

Question. Have you heard of any ridioff through the county f 

Answer. Yes. sir; I heard of thirty-odd being out last Friday night. 

QuesUon, Where were they seen f 

Answer. .Part of them were seen close to where I live, and part of them were seen at 

Question. Both places in Blount County T 

Answer. Ye^ sir. 

Question. Did they commit any outrages upon anyone? 

Answer. Well, it was said that they whipped a woman named Sina MoKinney. It 
was reported they had whipped her desperatel v, and ordered her to leave t^iere. They 
went on to Garland Smith's, and sent ms son down to tell her she had better go away. 

Question. What pretext was assigned Ibr whipping that woman Y 

Answer. Well, it was thought she wasn't keeping a nice house, I believe, by them, I 
reckon. I thins that was their excuse. 

Question. What information did you receive in re^rd to the other outrage? 

Answer. At BrooksviUe Y Well, brother Hall told me that some persons were there 
when they came on through the little town. 

Question. Do you know of any other pereons being whipped about your a^ghbor- 

Answer. No ; not to say I know them— I don't. 

Question. Have any other members of your fiamily ever been troubled by the Ku- 

Answer. Well, he is here ; he will come in before yon, I reckon, and can tell you. 

Question. To whom do you refer! 

Answer. My son. He is here himself, at the door, ready to come in, when he gets a 

Question. You spoke of Mr. Lakin. Is he known pretty generally in Blount County T 
Answer. He was presiding elder there two years. He is a northern man. 
Question. Did he nave a number of churches there T 
Answer. Yes ^ he did have, until they broke them all up. 

By the Chaibman: 
Question. Who didt 

Answer. These Ku-Elux ; and preachers is afiraid to preach there— 'that is the old-side 

Question. Do you refer to the Methodist Episcopal Church North f » 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. There are great objections made to that religious organization f 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

ByMr. Bucklby: 
Question. You had a good many congregations belonging to that church, had you not, 
intbatxecionof theStatef 
AnswerrYeSy sir; in Bloxmt— 0, yes. C^r\r\n]i> 

Question. Have the preachers aU been driven off? digitized by ^^UUg IL 

Answer. Pretty much. 


Question. Mr. Lakin was regarded with favor, was lie not, by the members of his 
church, over there? 

Answer, Yes, sir; Lakin is as fine a man; if there is any Christian on earth, he is 

Question. Did you ever know anything derogatory to his character as a Christian 
minis^r T 

Answer, Never on earth. 

Question, Was he thought a good deal of by his people there f 

Answer. Yes, sir; by everybody. 

By the Chairman: * 

Question, Except the Ku-Klux t 

Answer, O, yes, sir: I thiuk I understood him to say that he had been presiding 
elder thirty-five years ; and I have heard him tell what age he was when he com- 
meuced preaching. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
' Question, At the time of the camp-meeting, did they make inquiries for Mr. Lakin 
when these men rode up there f 

Answer, They never ix>de inside of the fence. The encampment is fenced in. 

Question, But at your tent they made inquiries t 

Answer, Yes, sir, 

Question. You said three dis^ised men came up under the arbor T 

Answer, No, sir; the arbor is on posts, and they kept on the dark side and sallied 
clear around. 

Question, Was he in the pulpit T 

Answer, No, sir ; he preached at three o'clock, and had not come out again. 

Question, Have you reason to think they were looking for him f 

Answer, O, yes ; there is no doubt of it. 

Question, But he was not there that night f 

Answer, No, sir; he was not there. 

Question^ Did you say this child was brought down to the camp-ground ? 

Answer, It was taken by, and carried out to where they buried it. 

Question. What time was it bom f 

Answer, It was bom on Saturday night, I think, a little before day. It may have 
been Sunday morning, but I think it was bom between midnight and day, and buried* 
Sunday evening, late. 

By the Chatrman : 

Question. Were there many white republicans in Blount County besides yourself t 

Answer, Well, there were right smart. 

QuesUon, Were they men from the South or from the North f 

Answer, They were men that were raised there. 

Question, Was there any persecution of these men who voted the republican ticket. 

Answer, WeU, if that was not what set them on me, I can't tell what it was. 

Question, Did the^ maltreat the negroes ? 

Answer, It was said that they had at some precincts, but I don't know whether that 
is so. 

Q^estion. Did you ever hear of them taking from the negroes their arms — their gunsf 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Do you know whether the negroes were intimidated and prevented from 
voting ? 

Answer. O ! yes ; that could have been seen by a man with a half eye. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
QuesHon. What is your age? 
Answer. Sixty-six years old. 

QjMStion. You Uvea in Blount County during the war ? 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

QnesiUm. A good many old Union people live there t 
Answer. A few. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Question. They never hit you ; nobody ever hit you? 
Answer. No, sir. 
^ (Question. And never took you out of your house except to ask you as to that Kn-Klnx 

nswer. That was at my son's house; not at my hons«. Digitized by vjOOQ IC 
estUm, Thay called you out to ask you about that ? 


AnsKtr. Tee, sir ; they called me oat, and made me come out. 

Quesium, Yoa told them what you had heard aboat it ; you had never looked at it 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Que^ioiu Your camp was inclosed at the camp-grotmd T 

Ausver, Yes, sir. 

Question, The^ never went inside with the horses f 

Answer, No, sir; I don't think they fetched any horses in. 

QuesUan, Did they shoot inside of it f 

Answer, The first three guns was, I think, fired inside of the fence. I conldn't see 
Uiexoy bat from the report, and where I sat under the arbor, I took it in my own opinion 
that they were at the fence, or inside of it. 

Question, When they came to your tent they were not disguised at all? 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question. Did you see them, when they rode up, to know whether they were dis- 

Answer, No, sir; I never went after them to see about it. 

Qu^tion, Anybody could have come and seen them and known them as well as you, 
if uiey had chosen to look at them'T 

Answer, O, yee. 

Question, Do you know whether the men who shot off the gnns were disguised or 


Answer, No, I do not. 

QueeUon, What is the county-seat of Blount f 

Answer. Blonntsville. 

Queetion, You don't remember the election concerning which you came here as a wit- 
ness when you first saw the Ku-Klux, when Busteed was holding court here ? 

Answer, No, sir, I don't. 

Question, Were you examined as a witness here f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Do you not remember what you testified about? 

Answo". Well, Hinds. I think the fellow's name was that contested the election, he 
had me snmmon^, and that was pretty much like it is here now ; it was to know what 
I know about these Eu-KIux, and what had been said. 

Question. You had never seen any until that night when you were coming on? 
. Answer. No. sir ; not uutU that night. 

Question. Tnen you saw three fellows ? 

Answ^. Yes, sir ; two coming in the hoilse, and one at the door. 

Question, You were summoned at a venture to know what you knew abont it? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Have you had any fusses with your neighbors about business, or any qnar- 
rels with them lately^ 

Answer. No, I haven't. 

Question, Did none of them ever make any prosecutions against you in court ? 

Answer. Yes. 

Question, For what? 

Answer, Well, they said I was one night with the anti-Eu-Elux riding about ; but 
they might have known that a man of my age would not do that. 

Question, What did they say you were doing? 

Answer, This Campbell's wife that Dunn killed swore that I was with them, and 
after me and Campbell came back I drawed a stick over her, and swore that I wonld 
kill her if she ever told that. 

Question, Did Campbell's wife swear that ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question.^ Did they indict you ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, When? 

Answer, That has been about two years ago, I reckon. 

Question, How many more were indicted at the time you were indioted ? 

Answer, God knows ; they said a bushel-basket full of true bills. 

Question. Before what Judge ? 

Answer, I think it was Jud^e Haralson. 

Qusstum, Jud^of the circuit court? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, He was a republican ? 

Answer, I don't know. 

QuesUou, Axe your grand jurors generally republicans ? 

Answer, NOjSir ; I tnink not. /^ i 

Question, Who was your district attorney ? Who prosecuted y,Oii^ by VjOOQIC 

Answer, Judge Haralson, I think. 


Question. Does he live in Blount County f 

Jnnoer, Yes, sir. 

Question, At Blountsville T 

Answer, Tes, sir. 

Question, What is his first name f 

Answer, I don't know. 

Question. Is he there now T 

Ansufer, Tes, sir ; State's attorney, or connty solicitor, or aomething ; I donH remember 

Question, What did he say yon had been doing when yon were oat on thi^ n»d f 

Answer, Well, they aeonsed Campbell of going «nd ordering some two or three or 
four of his neighbors to quit wearing their garb, or else they would have to quit the 

Question, And accused yon of being along f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Was Campbell killed f 

Anstoer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Howf On one of these raids f 

Answer, No ; I was not there. Report says, and Dunn said himself he killed him. 
He just went to Blountsville an4 gave up. There never was a thing done with him, 
and never was fined in any shape or form. 

Question, How did Campbell's wife come to swear against you f 

Answer, I can't tell. 

Question. Was not Campbell a friend of yours f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

QumHon, When she said yon drew the stick over her head, what did she say yon 
wanted to keep her from telling f 

Answer, That I wanted to keep her from telling that we were riding. 

Question, And she threatened to tell t 

Answer, She had told. She swore in the grand jury room, and that is tilie way tbey 
got a true bill against me. 

Question, Did you farm there f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, How much T 

Answer, I own one hundred and sixty acres, and I suppose twenty-five or thirty of it 
was cleared land. 

Question, Did you ever read the indictment against you to know what was in it T 

Answer, No. 

Question, Why did yon not read it; can yon not readf 

Answer. Well, I suppose I could, but I didn't do it. 

Question. You know whether you can read or not T 

Answer, I suppose I could. 

Question, Could you have read it f 

Answer, I can read some handwrites, and some I can't. 

Question, You never looked at itf 

Answer, No, sir. 

QuesOion. Never got anybody to read it to you f 

Answer, No, sir. ' 

Question, Who was your lawyer t 

Answer, I didnt have any. 

Question, Was that the only indictment they ever found against youf 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Of any sort? 

Answer, Of any sort. 

Question, And the only fuss you ever got into with your neighbors f ' 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. That is about two years ago T 

Answer, Two years, I think, about in all. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, Were you tried on that indictment t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question. What became of it f 

Answer, Well, I g»ve security, and the foreman on the bond became dissatisfied, and 
he raised a fuss and kicked up, and I thoucht I saw what thev were after. There has 
been a few men taken out of that jail and hung, and I concluded this iMe the time 
they had fixed up to trap me, and I didn't intend to go in, and I Just irave them nn 
what 1 Iiad and left. •» o ^v 

^^t^'o^^ ^ShSton*^^^ ^^^ property to f ^,^^,^^^ ^y GoOglc 


(jueiHon. Was he your surety t 

Antwer, Not until after Diuos kicked up. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
QuttlknL When were these men taken out of the jail and hanged f 
Antwer. About four or five years ago there was one taken out. They took him out 
sboat a mile and a half from town and hun^ him.; and the people told me that there 
vas one taken oat last Christmas eve, and hong; and shot, and dragged about over the 
road ontil ho was as muddy as a hog. 

By the Chairman : 

QwsHon, Ton said yon were indicted fbr being an anti-Eu-Klnx f 
Ameer, That was what was alleged. 

By Mr. Beck : 
Quettum. Did you run off? 
Antwer, No, sir ; I never run. 
Quesiifm. You gave up what you had f 
Antwer. I gave George Sheltun enough to satisfy the bond, and took the rest and 

"W6Tlt off. 

Qnetiion. Yon did not run f 

Antwer. No. 

QnetHon. Yon made fast walking? 

Antwer, I drove pretty peert. 

Qnetiion, Yon made the horses run t 

Antw^. If you had known that two or three men were after yon wrapped in scarlet 
yon vonldnt have sf aid there. 

Qnettiim, And yon went off at the time you gave up the property f 

Antwer. O. no; I never went off until after October— about twelve months ago. 

Qnettion, When you went off di'd you give up what property yon had to pay the bond f 
Wag Jake Dines /your surety first f 

Antwer, Yes, sir. , 

Quettwn. Jake got dissatisfied, and yon got somebody else to go surety f 

Antwer. Yes, sir. Then I got George Shelton to go and settle the bond off, and gave 
wm property enough to satisfy him. 

QnetHon. So yon confessed judgment f 

Antwer. No. » 

Qnettion. How was the hond satisfied t 

Antwer. I never knew much about it, but just left the State and left him to pay the 
bond. He went on the second bond with me. 

QnettioH. And yon went off and left the State and let judgment go against yoaf 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

Qnettion, And left property enough with George Shelton to pay the judgment? 

Antwer, Yes, sir. 

Qnettion, And went off to Georgia f 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

Qnettion, And staid until three or four weeks ago f 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

Qnettion. And the thing was settled up and yon came backf 

Antwer. They say it is not settled up yet. 

Qnettion. And yon are not going to stay there any longer f 

Antwer. I haven't said I would go away. 

Qnettion. What did you say t 

Antwer. 1 had orders to leave. 

Qnettion. I understood yon to say yon were going away t 

Antwer, I said, unless something was done for the settlement people, I wouldn't 

By the Chairmax : 
QuesHon, Was that a false charge in the indictment f 
Antwer. Yes, sir. 

QuettUm. Were you afraid that yon could not have a fair trial among your people f 
twicer. Yes, sir. 

Qutttion. Were they hostile to ^ou because you were a radical and anti-Ku-KIuxf 
Antwer. Yes, sir. 

Qwettitm. Yoa did not think yon could have a fair trial f 
Anmeer. No, *. 

By Mr. Burnt : r^ i 

QnatUm. Coald yon not have got a change of venue! Digitized by CjOOQIc 

47 A 


Answer, It was said it was changed. I asked to have it at SammerriUe, but it never 

By Mr. Beck : 

Question. Did yon ever see a itian nuder indictment who boliered that he got ftdr 

Answer. I don't know. 

Question. Haralson was the man who ran against Judge Dox for Congress f 

Answer, He run, I believe. 

Question, Was be not a good enough radical f 

Answer, He might be a good enough radical. I didn't say atirthing about the judge. 

Question. He was the Judge before whom you were to be tried T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I kuew him when he was only eighteen months old. We lired 
together many years ago in Georgia. 

By the Chairman: 

QuesHon. Were yon afraid of Kn-Klux on the Jury f 

Anstver. Yes. 

Question, Did the Eu-Klux, who came to your son's honse, and called you out, appear 
to be angry because the report had gotten abroad that a child had been bom lately 
with a Ku-Klox disguise f * 

Answar. Yes,, sir. From the run of their discourse to me I took it that that was their 
spite tkey had at me for that night's work. 

HuNTSViLLE, Alabama, October 10, 1871. 

BENJAMIN HORTON sworn and examined. 
By the Chairhan : 

Question, Where do you live f 

Answer, I live in Blouiit County t • 

Question, How long have you lived there T 

Answer, Going on thirteen years. 

Question, Have you not been absent at any time during that period f ^ 

Answer, I haven't been absent but six months during that time. 

Question, Are you a man of family f 

Answer, I have a wife. 

Question, Were you in the army t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I was in the army six months. ^ 

Question. Wbioh army f 

Answer, Roddy's command— the rebel army. 

Question, State if you are the son of Samuel Horton f 

Answer, les, sir. 

Question. Were you at a camp-meeting at Gum Grove in October, 1870 f 

Answer, I was there part of the time. 

Question, Did your wife have a child about the time of that camp-meeting f 

Anstver, Yes, sir ; the Sunday morning of the camp-meeting. 

Question, You may describe that chila to the committee. 

Answer, Well, sir, it was bom. It had something that looked like a false skull over 
its face, and little knobs like ^'on have seen on little yearlings, or little horns on both 
sides up here, [on the forehead,] and it had some stripes around its arms. 
V Question, Were there any other peculiar marks that you rememl>er f 

Answer, Not that 1 noticed. 

Question, How was its head shaped f 

Answer, Just like a man's head — like any one^ — chin and nose, and mouth and eyes, 
and all. 

Question, Had your wife ever seen the Ku-Klux in disgdise at that time f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; they passed my house every night; every Weduesdi^ and Thurs- 
day night. 

Question, For how many weeks f 

Answer, It had been for months. 

Question, Had your wife seen them T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Had she been alarmed by them f 

Answer. No. sir ; they came up to the door, and pushed the door open^ 

Question, When she was in the family way f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. How far was she advanced in pregnancy when they pushed th« door opeti f 

Anstcer, Between four and five months, ^ 


Qutg^M, Waa she aloue, <Hr were yoa at borne ? 
Jnswcr, I was at home. 
i^egti<m. What did they come for f 

AnsuHT, 1 don't kuow that they had any bnamess; they never mentioned any. They 
just pushed the door open. 
Question, Did it create a fright in her f 

Anmtr, Well, she was trembling rig'ht sibarp ; she was scared. 
Quation, Kow tell ns h6w this child compared in appearance with the Kn-Eloz in 

JiiMPer. Well, just to look at the men it looked pretty much that way, all to the 
marks on the face and around the mouth and all. It had red around its eyes, and the 
boms or lumps here on the forehead, and all imitated the Ku-Klnx pretty smart. 

QiKs/um. You may state if the forehead of the child was flat and square, and about 

Awwer, I never saw the forehead of it. That I was telling you was right orer the 
forehead ; and several of the people there felt tbe ehild^s forehead on top there. I belurd 
several say it was a flat forehead. 

Qnmlum, Did tbey say it was a tall forehead t 

^wirar. I don't remember. 

'QuHion. This was a substance like a veil that fe^ down over the forehead f 

Ammer. Yes^ sir ; you oould oatch bold of it and move it any way you wonted to. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
(stttum. Was there anything like a fringe around the side of the £Etoe of this same 
rabstSDce as on the forehead f 
AuwT. Not that I noticed. 

By the Chairman : 

(iitetHion, Were the eyes and mouth smaller than those of an ordinary child f 

Aumcer, It« eyes were small : its mouth, I think, was about as large as usual. 

QiKftiofi. Was there much of a nose f 

AiswtT, Yes, sir ; it had a plain nose. 

^(ioR. Was the face flat f . • 

Ajower. It was just like any face, bat flat and sort o' dished. 

Qieatioii. Did you notice that the chin sloped off on a lina with the body t 

Answer, No, sir ; I never, in fact, examined the child closely. I felt badly, and never 
examined closely. I heard several say it had. « 

Question. Did you notice whether there was a red mark on the neck f 

Antwer, There were red marks on the neck, around the arms, and on the legs, right 
down here. [Illustrating.] 

Question. State whether the body of the child was taken on the camp-ground and 
exhibited to the people there. 

Answer. It was taKen there, and the coffin opened, and two hundred, I reckon, saw 
it. It was laid out in view. 

Question. Were there a thousand people attending that meeting f 

Answer. There were between three and four hundred, I should say, attending the 

Question, How came it to be taken to the eamp-ground f 

Anwer, Well, the old man, my £ather-in-law, wanted to take it by the camp-ground 
•0 tlMit everybody might see it with their own eyes. About seventy-five or a hundred 
vent from the camp-ground to my house to see the child when the doctor stated it 
^as a Ku-Klnx." There were seventy-five to a hundred men and women together went 
to my house to see the child, and in going to the grave-yard we carried it by the camp- 
groond to show it to the eyes of all. 

QuesHon, Did there seem to be a general curiosity to see it f 

Answer, Yes, sir, very much so. 

Question, Was the child bom dead f 

Answer. Te6, sir, bom dead. 

QuetHiim. Was your wife a member of the Metbodist eburoh f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, 8tate whether you had been forced into the Ku-Kluz ranks yourseH 

Answer, No, sir. 

Qiustion. Did yon ever join the Kp-Klux f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Qnestion, Was there such an order or organization as the Ku-Klox generally scattered 
thruagh your county of Blount f 

Answer. Yes, sir, very much so. 

Question, How did they express themselves when this child was bom, and it was 
geneaUy Doteed about that it resembled the Ku-Kluxf Did it give them great 
efieoae ; were they mad about it T ^ 


Jntncer, They seemed to be. They seemed very mad aboat it. 

Question. Did these Ku-Klux ever molest you ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

QuMiion. Wheuf 

Answer. In December. 

Question. Last December T 

Answer. Yes, sirj the 19th, on Friday night. 
Quesiioiti. State the particulars to the committee. 

Answer, First, my father iixed to move from Alabama ; he came as far as my house 
OD Saturday uight to stay all uighty and take a start Suuday momiug ; aud while he 
w«B there there came four Ku-^Klux to my house aud took the old mau aud me both out, 
aud talked to me about the child ; that I had stated it was a Ku-Klux, and why it was 
called that, aud why I allowed it to be called that. I told them I could uot lielp that ; 
that the doctor pronounced that himself when it was born ; that he was the man to 
look to. They took the old man out aud was going to mob him. They got a withe 
or ohesaut switch, between three and four feet lon^, to whip the old man, and I caught 
the one that got the hickory aud I steppe<l up behiud him ; I was standing beside him 
aud caught the hickory ; I catched him by the arm aud pushed him in the road and 
told him if anybody was to be whipped I would rather taike it than my daddy ; that 
he had raised me, aud I wanted to take all the whipping, and that he would have te 
whip or kill me if he wanted to whip him. He 'low'd be Qould do it if I would Ho 
down. I told him I would take it staudiug up, uot lying down. He didn't whip or strike 
me, but just kept contending chat he should get hold of the old man ; but he never bit 
the old mau nor me either. Then there was me aud the old nuui and the four women^ 
my wife and two sisters-in-law, aud one sister, that were there. The Ku-Klux went off 
tliat ui^ht. 

Question. Were they mounted t 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Did you see whether they had arms on or not? 

Ansioer, They had pistols. They had cocked two pistols on me when I took that one 
by the arm. He cocked his pistol, aud the man by him told me they would shoot me. 
I told them I didn't care ; that was a game they could play if they wished, but I had 
no weapon, not even a pocket-knife ; aud I said to Ihe old gentleman, '^ You are getting . 
pretty old." I said to this old gentleman, " You afe getting pretty old, I discover " — 
no, my wife made meutiou (^ that— uo, he told my father he was getting old, and lio 
ought to live for God ; and my wife observed he was getting old and he ought to 11 vo 
for God, too. I talked to that old geutleman a little, and he got on his horse and they 
rode off. In December they came back. 

Quwiion. Did you kuow any of these men who visited your house that night to wliip 
your lather t 

Answer, I knew one, I think. , 

Question. You say one was an old man T 

Answer, Yes, sir ; they rode gSL Iu December they came back. There wore ten came 
tbeu. They took nie out ; eight of them took me out. 

Question. What time in the night was this f 

Answer* About three o'clock iu the morning, Tliey came and knocked down my door 
and came in and asked.for a candle. I told tnem where there was one, aud they got it. 
Me and my brother-in-law were living in adjoining houses, he in one aud X iu the otbor, 
aud they went into his end of the house hunting lor him, aud his wife told them bo 
was uot there. I told them, "Meu, there is no use in annoying the women ; upon my 
honor he is not here ; he has gone off to sow wheat." I had been off sowing wheat that 
day, and met them coming home and spoke to them. I said, '^ He has been off sowiug 
wheat." They observed to me, '' Get up I Aiise, Horton, and put on your bi-eechea aua 
come out." I was pretty slow about it. . I wasn't particularly iu a hurry. I got up 
and pulled on my pants and was walking up to the fire, and they told me to be in a 
hurry, God damn it; I was too slow ; aud they started back and my wife shut the duor, 
aud they holloed, *' Shoot a hole through ; " aud she holloed she would stand tUere. 
They took a run to go against the door, and knocked the door back way across tbe 
house. She had just stepped back fr9iu the door when the door flew in. Then four of 
them came iu au(l cocked their pistols, and told me to come out. They pushed ni© out 
of doors; they told me to get my shoes ii 1 didn't want to go iu the frost barefooted. 
I told my wiie to bring the shoes, if she pleased. She picked up the shoes and sturt«<L 
They wouldu't allow her to come. By that time all eight of them had ^ot arouudi 
She told them she would bring them. She brought the shoes, and they tried to tuko 
them from her, but she held on to them and throwed them over their heads into wUere 
1 was into the middle of them. 1 picked up my shoes aud drew them on without any 
socks. They ordered me then to le-ave the yard, aud I said, " Meu, if you are goiuff to 
do aaythiug here is the place; you have the power; I see that it isn't worth wbile to 
say or do anything." My thumb and that finger was mashed. I had dragged a lojr oa 
it in the crib iu the fall. They told me to come out of the yard. I told them I cLuln't 


think I onght to. They put the pistols against my breasts, and head, and side. One 
of them Jobbed me in the temple with his pistol and left a pTaco that was there fbr a 
week. He said he didn't want to kill me, but, damn me, if I didn't move he would 
kill me. I said had 1 done anything, or wronged nobody, or stolen anything, or «worn 
any lie, or what was the matter. Tney wouldn't give me no answer. • They got me 
away. They told me to go, and started and gathered a big bench-back, broader than 
this cbair-back and four feet long. I said, "Men, if yon are going to do anything do it 
like a man; don't do it like you would kill a horse; commence like you were going to 
begin on a man." They told me to come away from the house, and started me, both of 
them pushing me on. They got me, maybe, two hundred or two hundred and fifty 
yards from the house to the line between me and another man. Then they told me to 
get down in order to get through under the fence. I told them I never got down for 
my daddy, or any man. They gathered on me, and I held on to the fence, and one of 
them got two hickories and six of them hit me three licks apiece with the hickory. I 
aAed them when they struck me, I didn't feel like taking it unless I knew what it was 
for. They said I said I knew some of the Ku-Kluxers, and was talking too damn Ing. 
1 told them I did say it and I didn't take it back. In kbout a month they sent me word 
1 bad went and bought me a rifle-gun. I had traded for it, and I had never made any 
threats or said anything against them. I waa attending to my own business, staying 

at home working^ and tney sent me word they understood I had bought arms for them. 
I told them that if they wanted my gun to come and get it. I told them that told me 
that if I had known it I wouldn't have said anything about it. Thty said if I didn't 
make way with it they would come and break it over the fence. I gave $85 for the 

faD, bat I 8o^d it then for J15. They told my brother to come and tell me, the day alter 
did that, that if they ever heard of ray saying anything about the Kn-Klnx-'against 
them or for them — they would give me two hnndred lashes on my naked back twice a 
week, and if that wouldn't do tney would kill me, and if that wouldn't do they would 
born my house, by God, over me, and I should not stay in the country. 

Qnaiion. After you were whipped, in the manner you describe, by these six men, 
m yon make any complaint of it f 

Amwer. No, sir ; I neVer said anything about it. 

QuesHm. Why not? 

Antwer, Because I was afhiid to ; I knew if I said anything about it they would 
eome on me again and kill me the next time ; they told me, by God, to be carefbl, or 
they would be out again before long, and if they heard anything, they woold do me 
worw than that. 

(^nation. When you asked them, in your house, for the cause of their conduct while 
tiiey were taking you out that night, they refused to give you any answer f 

Anaicer. They refused to give me any answer at all. 

(ifiaivnu But after they had whipped you, they told you that you had been saying 
yon knew the Kn-Klux, and was talking too big t 

-imwer. Ko, sir: that was before they whipped me ; they had struck me three lioks: 
^ of them had hit his three licks out ; I kept asking what they whipped me for, sua 
be tiien replied that I had been talking too big. 

Qwftion. How severe was this whipping! 

•^IvMnrr. They didn't out the blood out but in one place about two inches on the baek ; 
wey marked me all along on the back ; it looked like any one whipped with the&r ooaC 
«*, on the shoulders. 

9 Mrtloii. Had they any pique against yon because your father was a radical f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

^■crtMm. Were you a radical too f 

Amper. Yes, sir. 

Qwttkm, Had yon voted the republican ticket t 

^•wwr. No, sir: I never voted m my life ; but my father was that way, and I leaned 
ftat way. My wife belonged to the church, and generally leaned that way, an/d went 
^ the meetings, and that is the cause why they are down on me. 

C»«rtwi. Had you been intimidated from voting t 

-^^twr. No, sir ; not at all. I have not been old enough to vote. I oniy came to 
*gB three years now, and I never fancied it anyhow. To keep out of difHoulties, I 
^boQ^t I would always keep to home. 

Q[»wt«m. Did they charge you witli knowing who the Ku-Elux were, or that you bad 
been telling that you knew who the Ku-Khix were f 

Anmetr. Yes, sir ; they said I had talked too big ; that I said I knew some of the 

(Station, What had you said t 

Antwer. I had said to that old gentleman in that crowd, that was when they talked 

went off without saying anything. 


Qitestian. Did jou know any of that crowd of six f - 

Angwer. No, sir ; they were di^gaised more perfectly than aay I ever saw. They 
generally are disgaisea-— the eyes and mouth : but that night it was all disguised. 

QuMtion, You have no idea who they were f 

Anmver. Two of them were the same that were at the old man's before ; I know from 
their talk and shapes. 

Question. Did they live in that neighborhood f 

A-Mtcer. YeSf sir ; they lived in about four milea and a half of me. 

Queation. How numerous was this organization of Ku-Klux in Blount County T 

Answer, Well, it was ri^ht sharp ; I can't give the numbers, because I was not into 
the Ku-Klux band ; but if I should guess, I should guess, from all accounts, I have seen 
seveuty-five in a drove at one time. . 

By Mr. Bucklky : 
Qumiion, When was that f 

An&wer, That was just a week after they whipped me. 
(ineation. Last December f 
Answer, Yes, sir ; they went down and took Eetchum out of Jail and killed hiai. 

By the Chairman : 

Qnest'wn, Who was Ketchnm f 

Anewer, Lewis Ketchnm, son of Henry Ketchum. They were going that night to 
take him out of jail when I saw the seventy-five. 

QuMUon, Did they take him out of jail f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; and shot him seven times, I think, and then whipped him frem the 
heels to the top of the head, and then hung him. 

QyyesHon, That was last December f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; Christmas eve night. 

QtiesHen, In BlountevUle f 

Anstcer, Yes, sir ; it was done two miles cast of Blomitsville, in the big road. They 
came back to town, and told his brother if he wanted to see anything to go up the road 
and he would see it. 

QMesUon, What time of night was it T 

Answer, I can't say ; it was between 11 and 12 o'clock when I saw them. 

QnesHon, Were they on their way to the jail f 

Answer, They were in the big road to B. ountsviUe. 

Question, How far from there f 

Answer, Five or six miles. 

Question, Were they all mounted f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, And had disguises onf 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Do you know what crime Ketchnm was in jail for f 

Answer, He had killed a fellow. 

Question, A Ku-Klnx T 

Answer, 1 suppose from that that it was. I don't know it to be that, but I sappose 
from that that it was. 

Qttestion, How long had he been in jail on that charge f 

Answer, He was put in on Friday evening, about two hours and a half by muk^ and 
they came Friday night there to take him out, and failed ; and on Saturday ni^t oame 
again and finished him. 

Question, Do you know anybody else in the county that the Ku-Klux have visited f 

Answer. I coiudu't tell you all that have, if I was to talk until to-morrow nigbt. 
There is but few houses but what they have visited. 

Question. When did you first hear of the Ku-Klux making their rounds f 

Answer. I can't tell you. 

Question, How long after the war was it f 

Answer. Three years, I believe ; I don't know. It was between two or three years 
after the war, as well as I recollect. 

QuesUott. Have they kept it up there since t 

Answer. Yes, sir ; mpre or lees. 

Question. Do you believe that order is in existence in Blount County to-day f 

Anstoer. Yes, sir ; I know it. 

Question. Do you know of any manifestations they have made since December laat, 
when Ketchum was hnngt 

Ansteer, Yes, sir, several. 

Question. Name such as you have heard o£ 

Anstver. They went last Thursday nigbt a week ago, and whipped a woDmo, and ran 
a woman off from there. They caught her, they said, and run her off. • 


By Mr. Blaib : 
Qneation. Who was "herf 
Answer. KiDney. 

QuaHotu What did they drive her off for f 
Answer, I don't know, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Quettum. What otber caees do yoq know f 

Answer, I can't tell yon ; they have been riding aroand all the time. 

Question. Did they ever visit the cabins of the negroes t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; very often. 

QuesU&n. What do yon know of their taking away arms from the negroes f . 

Answer, I don't know that they ever did. Iknow they took several gans ; T saw the 
gnus sticking in tho mud- hill, where they said the Ku-Elux stuck them ; but I can't 
8sy they took them from the negroes. 

Qnestion. Is that the general understanding there, that the Eu-Elux took their guns 
iTom them f 

Answer, Yes, sir: and any other man, white or black, that didn't walk as they 
wished him to walk, they took his arms. 

Question. What do you mean by that ; that they did not vote with the democratic 

Answer, Yes, sir ; and go according to their orders— just be governed by their orders. 

Question. By the orders of the Ku-Klux Klan f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Questimu What was done with these gentlemen in your courts ; was any notice taken 
of these proceedings f 

Answer. Not much ; mighty little. 

Question, Wer^ the people afraid to attempt to prosecute them f 

Answer, Yes, sir. A man might as well go and dig his grave as to go to Blouutsville 
and apply against a Eu-Klux or try to warrant him. 

By Mr. Btjckley: 
Question. Or have him arrested f 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

By the Chaibmak: 

Question, Yon thmk it conld not be done f 
Answer. Ko^ sir. It might be in some places. 

By Mr. Bucklbt : 

Question. Bnt the man who would do that would endanger bis own life f 
Answer, Yes, sir ; he wouldn't live long. 

Question. Is that the reason you did not go and make complaint f 
Answer. Yes, sir ; just the reason. I was told by several to do so, bnt I was too sharp 
to do that. I like my life as well as anything else. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. How many in your county dare vote the republican ticket f 

Answer. I don't kjiow ; I have never been to an election in my life, and I don't know 
soytbing abont the elections, because right there when a man went to the polls and 
voted be right there got the Ku-Klux against him, and to keep from harassing by 
tbem I always staid at home and attended to my own business, to keep the peace and 
have them to let me alone. 

Question, Were you afraid that if you went there and voted your sentiments you 
would have the Ku-Klux after yon t 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I knew that if I voted my way they would have something to say 
sbont it, and I let it alone. 1 knew they could do without my vote. 

Question. Did the other Union people feel as yon did ? 

Answer. Several of tbem did, I know ; a great many of them did. 

Question, How as to the negroes f 

Answer. Hardly any negroes voted. The first election after the war a great many 
voted, bnt after that they hardly ever voted. 

Question, Do they keep away from voting because they are afraid of being Ku- 

Answer, I would suppose so. Before the Ku-Klnx came around they voted, but after- 
wards they have not. 

Question. Do yon know of any Kn-Klux being at that camp-meetinff at Gum Grove 1 

^swer. No, sir. I heard them shooting there, bnt I was at home, i live a mile and 
H half from the meetlDg-honse. I heard tne pistols firing at the camp, but my wife was 
nick, and I was at home with my wife. 


By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. What doctor was it attended your wife f • 
Answer, Doctor Gorlington Coker. 

HoNTdYiiXE; Alabama, Odoh&r 11, 1871* 

WILLIAM SHAPARD Bwom and examined. 
By the Chairbun : 

QuesH^. What is yonr age and place of residence? 

Anmoer, Sixty-seven years ; Blount County. 

Question. How long have you lived in Blonnt County f 

Answer, Ever since 1847 ; you can count it up ; I don't remember precisely. I lived 
there in 1847, the first year. 

Question. Of what State are you a native f 

Answer, Virginia. 

Question. How far do you live from the county-seat — Blountsville T 

Anstoer. Six miles north. 

Question. Are you a farmer? 

Answer. I am. 

Question. Owning land f 

Answer, I do. 

Question. During the late rebellion what was your position ; were you for the Union 
or for the confederacy ? 

Ansicer. Geutlomen, can you indulge me a little right here f 

Question. Yes, sir. 

Answer. I can answer, and perhaps save, a good many questions. My grandfather 
and my father and my mother and all my associati^s taught me to be loyal to the 
American Government — to the United States Government. If I have ever been doubt- 
ful on that subject at any moment I don't remembec it at this time. 

Question. Were you outspoken in your sentiments and opinions during the war and 
since the war f 

Answer. No, sir ; when I saw the difficulties coming up I determined on the spot jiist 
to withdraw and be as quiet as'possible* What communications and oonversationu 
and evervthing I did were entirely confidential. The reason of this wiw this : I saw 
the people had become demoralized ; that probably dangers would come up, and I 
called up a few of them to counsel and advise for each otoer's safety, and some of us 
wont into an agreement together that it was a matter beyond human control, and tbat 
we had better be prudent. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. This was at the bcginuiniE of the war f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I seldom ever talked it in conversations ; if I did, as soon as I saw 
what it led to, I withdrew on the spot. I was stigmatized there as a Lincolnite, first, 
because I wouldn't rejoice over the battle of Manassas. I did refrain from r^icins 
■'-■'■ • • — • • • iloo" " 

there from the fact that I was enlisted the other way. That is very clear, but I lookecl 

" ■' '"'" " ' ) can be broucht 

point like that 

at circumstances of this kind and used the expression — and fifty p^ple can be broucht 
here to establish it — said I : *' Gentlemen, stop ; go back to 1832, A point like that 
occurred between Russia and Poland, and Poluud thrashed Russia four times worao 

than you thrashed them, and in less than twelve mouths Russia camcou again with 
an increased force, and Poland thraslied her again, and everybody thought it was 
settled ; and in less than three years Poland was coni^uered and paititioxied outb Now 
wait three years, and if you make as muck as you thmk you will, you may thank God 
for his blessings.'' 

Question. Have you been subjected to persecution, since the war, on account of yoar 
political sentiments! 

Anstcer. Yes, sir ; pretty much all the time. . 

Question, What has been the nature of that persecution f 

Answer. Well, I believe they call me now a radical and a negro-eqnality man and a 

Question. Has there been any other pei'secutiou, besides hard names, to which* yoa 
have been subjected f ^ / 

Answer. I understand your question. You have a period of three, or fbor, or five 
years to go through, and a great many things to look over, and— -^ 

Question. Make your statement as short as possible. 

Anstcer. It was not my intention to take any part in public matters after th<» aocu 

'der ; I was prevailed' on to do so. As soon as my position was known in tne war. 


there was a notice pat np on my gate-post giving me ten days to leave the ooantry in 
It was done in the night by some person, I don't kuow who ; I uerer ooald fiad out. 

Quation. Was the notice signed by any one f 

AntKer. No, sir ; it only hiid three K's over it, and any person could see it was a 
fictitious handwriting ; the man that did that used a pen that showed it. 

Option. About what time was that notice f 

Auwer. I can't dmte it, only this way ; just as soon as they saw my efforts in the 
county were prevailing, and that I was troublesome to them there, it came. 

(wf/ios. Was it before l»67t 

Anwer, At what date was the general convention held here f 

Mr. Buckley. That was on the 5th of November, 1867. 

The Witness. Well, it commenced there about eight o'clock that night, on that 
siiod that day ; that notice was pnt there on my gate ; at the next circuit coftrt I was 
returned to the court prosecuted for immorality. 

Bytiie Chairmak: / 

Queslkm, On what charge f 

luwer. Trying to kill a man, 1 think. 

QutHoH. Do you mean that you were indicted f 

AnmDer, Tea, sir. 

Qitalion, Was there any. foundation for the charge f 

Auiwar. Perhaps the details of the matter will be shorter and explain all that, than 
by sDtwering q nestions that way. 

QuetHom, Well, go on and make it brief. 

Auwer, I was advised confidentially afterward that everything was against me, and 
if I didn't leave the conntry I would go to the penitentiary for ten years. I was tried 
afterward up in court, in Blountsville, and not a witness appeared against me. The 
Tery man I was indicted for trying to kill swore there, in open court, that I had 
always been friendly toward him, that he had never entertained a hard feeling against 
me, and that he would rather trust in me than any other man living fbr a friend. 

(itM^on. What other demonstration was made against yon besides this notice on your 

Auwer. That clears np ihait matter. Now suppose-^ 

Q«e8<ft»tt. What! 

Auwer. Are all hands done with that f I want to get throngh as I go along. 

QuatUm. Do you wish to add anything to your former statement ? 

Amwer. I give that as what I consider a fair statement of that trouble ; that I was 
prosecuted maliciously ; that the very man I was indicted for trying to kill went Into 
coart-^he was a witness against me — and ho went in and swore I never had done him 
aoy harm in any way, and if he was in danger ho would rather trust me than any other 

Queatiou. Wbo got np that prosecution against you ? 

Auwer. It was done in a clandestiue way. I never have been able to find out. I 
lia?e only a private opinion on that, and I reckon that had better lie stilL I prefer 
myself that my private things of that nature should He still. 

Quttitn, Did yon leave the country in pursnanee of that notice T 

Auwer, When I had business I left, and when I got throngh I returned. 

Qmtlion. Then you did not go in consequence of that notice f 

Auwer. No, sir. 

QuetUon. What other measures were taken against yon, if anvt 

Auwer, About this time, and in connection and along with it, a certain man fbrced 
» ecmveisatioD upon one of my daughters— — 

Qm e t i im, Will yen speak lender in giving yofir answers f 

Ammer. Before we go any ibrther with my evidence I wish one thing understood. I 
>lwi^ prefer iannliaritv with everr man — at least, good acanaintance. My health is 
oo« thing I ean't control, and nobody else here. Anything that might be complained 
of or^nates from that. So far as any person in this matter is concerned, I will take it 
aa a&Tor. I bold this doctrine : If a man is a friend to me he will correct me, and ii 
be is not a friend he will not correct me. Now I will speak a little louder. He wanted 
to know if she had heard of the Ku-Klux ; that I have from her. 

Qutiion. Proceed with your narrative. 

Auwer. She replied that she had, but she had no further nse for any conversation on 
that subject. He wished to know of her if 1 was not afhiid to stay in the country on 
teemaiei them. 8he told him to inquire of me about that ; that she didn't know. 
He inqaired to know what would they do if the Ku-Klnx came to my honse. She advised 
him ifbe wi^ed to know to come and see. He inquired, ** Would you let them come 
in the house f She replied, ** Come and see." He replied back, ** When they come 
you had better mind how you behave. If you cross them they will tcar^the house 
•down, and all of you will go over the moon." Digitized by VjOOg IC 


ByMr. BLiJR: * 

Qu€9tiom. Go over the moon t 

Anmoer. Yes, sir, that was hlfl reply. I don't know the road there* That U as she 
oonuuunieated it to me. 

By the Chairman: 

Queitkm. Did that end the conversation between the Kn*Ehiz and yonrdanghter f 

Afinoer, About. I don't think of anythins more. She told the fellow, probably, to 
shut up his mouth and clear out ; that she didn't want to talk with him, or some how 
so ; that it was no conversation with a lady, or something of that kind. 

Question, What was the name of the man who had this conversation with your 
daughter f 

Amwer^ Abner Stewart. He lives about a mile from my house. 

Qvesiion. When did that conversation occur f 

Answer, Well, sir, about the apparent time they began to ride about there at nights 
when this thing camo np. I don't know how to name it or phrase it, because I never 
put myself to any trouble, not half as much as about coming hero. 

Question, Who do you mean by " they," in saying they commenced riding about f 

Answer, I mean — I don't know what I mean. Yon must take that thing like it fits. 
At that time I was notified by several that the time had come for the carpet-baggers, 
and negro-equality men, and scalawags had to leave the country, and it was currently 
understood over the countiy. Now nuirk : I tell you through all these circumstances 
I was not mingling in public matters. I staid at home as close as most of dhmi. I 
don't suppose I have been off my place throe times in six months, until 1 started here. 
I stayed about my farm. 

QuesUon, How was this notice given that scalawags and carpet-baggers should leave 
the country f 

Answer, Occasionally the men would come to me and be^n conversation in a way, 
coming up unexpectedly, and use an exprodsion similar to this, or in these words: "We 
have got the thing dead now ; we have got an organization that is to whip out every- 
thing ; and all the damned scalawags, carpet-baggers, and negro-equality men shall 
leave the country." 

Question, Were the men who spoke to you in these terms disguised men f 

Answer, No, sir. You see I had no chance of seeing disguised men only in one way — 
if they came where I was. I didut travel about at nights, sir, and seldom in the day- 

Question, Who talked to you this way in relation to carpet-baggers, and scalawags, 
and n^(ro-equality men leaving the country f 

Answer, John Copeland, Lewis Copeland, Virgil Newsome, J. W. Moore, the probate 
judge there, and various other men. 

Qtiestion, Were these leading iniluential men who used this language to you f 

Answer, One is a probate judjje. 

Questmn, Who are the others T 

Answer, He and two others told me they belonged to that organization. 

Question. Judge Moore and two others told you they belonged to that orgameation T 

Answer, Yes, sir. They told me the place or house that the orgaaizatiou was foruaed 
in, and several other members of it. 

Question. Who are those two others yon refer to f 

Answer, The two Copelands and Newsome. 

Question, Where did they say the organization was formed f 

Answer, In the Masonic jLodge at Blountsville — stop before yon begin there ; I aaid 
the Masonic Lodge. I want, before you put that down, to frame that very eautionslv. 
I don't want you to infer from that that the Masons done this, motter, but it aeetns 
that this party somehow bad the use of the room in tbafe house. Aad he pointed over, 
and said, '' It was in the lodge there." That I wanted to explain, for fioar it laiglkt get 
out that I had aocused the Masons of being in this. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
Question, By the Masonic Lodge he referred to the building where they met 7 
Answer, Yes, sir; merely the bulldiug, not the frateniity, All this from Virgil 
Newsome's conversation and from the others, Moore and the rest, seems to have origlu- 
ated from this: that they seemed to have been in expectation that I was going to can- 
vass the county, and make speeches— they seemed to infer that — but they were mis- 
taken. I had no such intention; on the other hand, there was a fixed detemuuation 
not to do it, and I did not do it. 

By the Chairman : 
Question, Fix the time as nearlv as you can when Judge Moore and Mr. Nbwsome 
and these others named told you this. ^ , , C^ nc\cs\c> 

Anmer, You can fix it, I r^kon, faster than I can. ^'^'^'^'^ ^^ '<:^00^ IL 


Questimt. What time was General Meade's order for the legislature to meet and com> 
mence the work of reconstruction T 

Mr. BccKi£Y. I think that order was issned either the last of Jane, or the first 
of Jolj. 1868. It was after the general omnibas bill was passed by Congress. 

The wn2CE88. This is not the first time this thing occarred to toy mind, bat the 
nearest I can date it is, it was about sis weeks before that order issued. 

Queftion. Do yon think it was after March 2, 18G7, the date .of the reconstruction acts 
jossed by Congress T • 

Antwer. O, yes, sir. My attention has not been particularly directed to this, but it 
grew out of this : some person put the report out that the country was to be pat under 
military rule, and I wrs to govern it. That was the first I had heard or thought of a 
thinf of that kind, and I recollect at the time it was pretty clearly understood that the 
legimture was to be ci^led together, and I had got a communication adyising me of 
Bome fyiCtB, and I laid it down, and some person that was at my house happened to see 
a was on this subject, and that is what this Ireport grew out of; and the first time I 
Appeared in company, I was attacked on that subject. 

By the Chairman : 

Queaiion, "What did these gentlemen tcU you was the object of this organization T 

intuxr. To break up negro schools and break down negro equality ; bum up school- 
booses and churches : drive the God-damned radicals out of tnc country, and the car- 
pet-baggers, and scalawags, and restore law and order ; that law and order was to be 
the result of that course of things. T stuck up a peg there. 

Questum, You were mystified over that f 

AnnDer. 1 never could understand it, and don't yet. That last remark about scala- 
wags and radicals was made by Lewis Copeland. I wished to know their author. 
They had classed me as a leader or active participant in the proceedings that were going 
00. I inquired of them after I stuck up that peg. 

Queaiian. AVhat answer was given f 

Answer. Tom Nations informed them that I was the leader. 

Quatiam, What do you suppose was the strength of that organization in Blount 

Aunnr. I am not through with that yet. 

QuesUon, Go on with your statement. You go so slow, that I do not know when you 
get through. 

Amtmer,' It is so long, Mr. Pratt ; we make more going slow than fast. 

QutMom, Take your own course. 

Anncer. They said Tom Nations was the author. I give it now Just as it occurred. 
Says I, **Who pays Mr. Natipns for his services T" They replied that they didn't know. 
Copeland then crossed his arms this way, [over his breast,] "Well, we have got an 
organization here for all such men as old Tom Nations, and now, if yon don't take down 
his sign, be will be taken out of anight, and we will give him one hundred lashee, and 
he shall never know who done it." ^ 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Que$iUm. TVhat did they mean by taking down his sign f 

Amsw^. I didn't inquire ; I give the words ; all the time I was trying to get out of 
it ; I didn't want to talk with them about it. Judge Moore replied, and gave a nod to 
tbs place Newsome had formed his organization, and says, ^ Yes, that was fixed up 
oTer yonder, and now," says he, ''if any man wamts to work in the garb of the radi- 
csIb, let him try it." 

By the Chairmah : 
Qae9tt9n. This man Moore was the probate Judge. I understand f 
AMtwer. Yes, sir. " Whenever he commences it, ne will get notice to quit, and if he 
don't he will get a hundred lashes, and if that don't do him, he will be taken out and 
swong to a limb and that will end it. We intend to clean out the country ;" and Gil- 
lespie says, '* That's so ;" and after he made the remark, all three of them gathered 
alioat, and looked around and made \k gesture likd that, [of emphasis,] ** Yes, that's 
the law." I walked off. Since that time various acts of violence have been committed, 
and if that be the law, tne law has been literally fulfilled. 

By Mr. Blair : 

QaisHon, Whatt 

Annper. If whipping men and taking them out and hanging them is the law, the 
law has been literally fulfilled from that time up until now. A great many men have 
been whipped and driven off since. 

By the Chahmak : Digitized by GoOqIc 

QueaUon, How many would you think, from first to last, in the county of Blount, 
have suffered in this manner f 


Answer, I am not prepared to give the precise naniber. The first I heard of was the 
sheriff of the coiuity. When he was in his regular social intercourse, in open dav-time, 
in the presence of fourteen or fifteen citizens around the country, all property-holders 
and citizens, he was murdered in cold blood about 11 o'clock in the day, and a man 
that murdered him wasl^nown to be a Ku-Klux— I suppose what they call Ku-Rlox 
in these times. He came there, and. I am informed, put on his uniform or disgoiae — I 
don't know what the correct nan^p is ; I talk of it as they talked of it to me. They 
were in the habit of riding in there in the day-time. He killed the sheriff. 

By Mr. Blair: 

Question, Give the name of the sheriff and the roan who killed hini. 

Answer. Levi Murphy was the sheriff and the man that killed him was named Bos- 
sell. I don't know his given name ; I never had any acquaintance with him. 

Que8ti4m. How do you know he was a Ku-Kluz f 

Answer. I stated a minute ago I had these facts, and they wsre communicated to me 
chiefly. Mr. Murphy was killed, and the day before Murphy was there selling goods, 
and I know his store was shut up, and he can't be found since. I have to eipe&k of 
these things pretty much in this way ; I believe the sun rises and sets, but I have 
never been to the place where it rises or the place where it sets, and yet I believe that 
is a settled question without tracing things that fSe^r. I don't think ^if there is any- 
thing wrong in saying lie. killed Murphy, or was a Ku-Klux, let the blame fall on me, 
and that is risking a good deaL 

By the Chairman : 
Question, Was this Murphy a x^ublican f 
Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. How long had he'been serving as sheriff when he was killed f 
Answer. Just commenced. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. Was he elected at the election of February, 1868 f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Ho then had Just entered upon his duties as sheriff f 

Answer. Yes, sir. • 

Question. At what time of the year ? 

Answer. That must be governed by this fkot: the records and his bond ^n show- 
there, some time in July or August ', sooner than that, I think ; Match, I think, is the 
time nearer. 

By the Chairman ; 

QuestUm. What was the reason of Russell killing; Murphy f 

Answer. I don't think that baa ever been explained, or can be any ttorethan it is. 
Just as I say. 

Question. Killed because he was a republican, do you mean f 

Anstcer. It might be a little further explained in this way, I suppose, though, inas- 
much as there are things connected with this now that I can't say, as 1 was not pre- 
sent at everything, but it is not worth while to use so many words ; you all understand, 
it. The contest was getting pretty high between the democrats and republicans. Don't 
put this down ; I want Mr. Pratt, though, to know how to frame his qncfirtions. Tho 
conversation originated something about radicals and republicans. Murphy remarked 
that he was a friend to reconstruction, and words that I don't remember and cannot 
rei)eat were passed between each other, and while it was going on so Russell remai-ked. 
to him, no man should use such language in his presence. Murphy stepped up to bini 
and savs, ** I repeat again what I have said, and intend to stand to it,*' and at that 
Russell, I suppose, drew out his pistol and shot him dead. You ask an explanatiou ; 
I tell that ; I don't s^ve that as evidence ; I have it ftom hearsay. 

Question, Do you believe that account to be truet 

Answer. I have never had any reason to doubt it. 

Question. Is that the general understanding of the manner in which he was killed T 

Ansiver, Yes, sir: that is the general understanding, because I was interested. Yoa 
know any civilizea man in a bmlized community, when an outrage of tliat extent is 
committed, will go to some extent to 'find out the facts — whether it was jnstiiied or 
not. I did that, not thinking it would lead to this, and I give that as my best under- 
standing ; but I don't sav ot that, as I said awhile ago, that it was a settled fact. 
They may bring in some little thing I never heard of about it. 

Question, Hoty many killings have occurred from political causes since Murphy was 
shot f 

Answer. When you come to take evidence you will find that as difficult as thA other. 

Question. Give the best opinion you can. 

Answer, I can say this— before we reach that I will say it here, because you vsiU 


reach it qnieker — jon will find ont that oil the meu that got killed wero repahlicans, 
and those that did the killing were on the other side. I can stiind np to that, ^here 
i« Leri Mntpfay got killed ; and Rnmiell Campbell got killed ; and Lemuel Palkner was 
Idlied; and Lewis Ketchnm was killed ; and a man named Higgins was killed: and a 
great many others that I can't recollect ; and a great many more were whipped ana driven 
off ; and an organized band called Kn-KIns, or anderstood to be Kn-KInx, marched 
tbroBffh the streets of the connty-seat, right before the sheriff and the probate judge, day 
and night, whenever they pleased, and never has one of them been arrested, as f heard 
of^ or an attempt to arrest them. And there is a man on this ground now that was 
arrested and prosecuted there for gomg peaceably with other men to tr^ to insist 
npon peace, harmony, lajv, and order. Not only prosecuted, but he was driven from 
the conntry. In hopes of peace he has returned, and he is now notified to leave again. 

Jketticn, Do you mean that all these men that you have referred to as whipped, 
ed, and driven from the conntry, were so maltreated by the Ku-Klux organization f 

An9wer. I am not at a loss to answer that question, but still another thing was ou 
the end of my tongue when you mentioned that. 

Quettion, Well, go on. 

AMiwr, At tne fast election, John F. McDowell informs me that when he went to 
the election to vote, the sheriff came to him and ^k him by the arm and wanted him 
to vote the democratic ticket, and giving him one. He looked at It, and told him he 
didn't vote that ticket The sheriff told him that was the way they were all voting, 
aod to come idong and vote. He got him up to the polls, atMl McDowell says, *' If I 
vote I gives my own vote." " Who do you want to vote fori" He says, " I vote for a 
republican ticket," and there was officers, and all around had tickets, they said, plenty 
of them. He called for one, and they said, ** We don't keep them tickets here at all ; 
yoQ irin have to go somewhere else," and he went about fifty yards off and got him a 
ticlset, and some four or five of the gang followed after him and stood by and watched ; 
aod after he got it, they wanted to see what was on it, and'begau in this way : " Damn 
you, do ^ou vote that ticket!" "I do." "Do you vote for that damned nigger f" 
They pointed out one. He stepped off and got a pen and scratched out that name, 
and went and gAVt his ticket m. Various people in the crowd wero heard to say, 
''Damn hiin, ho is good for a hundred lashes." ** Damn him, he shan't live here two 
veeks." Such conversation was heard about in the crowd. In a few nights afterward 
they broke open his house, and, I suppose, left him for de|d. They beat him terribly. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
Quation. Were they disguised men that beat him f 

iMver. They were. I don't reckon they wiU dispute that, as they managed to get 
apart of their rigging here. 
QwsHon. Do yon mean a part of the disgnise worn at that particular time f 
Ansvcer. In the fight, he and his children secured that much of them. 

By Mr. Bi«aib : 

9v<9tum. He and his children did that ? 

Aimetr. Secured some of their apparel that they had along with them in the fight. 
I^ don't know for certain, bnt I think it can be brought here, if you want to see it. 
^cn he left, he asked me to take care of it. Ho lived on the homestead place that 
hft has improved very well. His residence, I think, is very important to secure 
title, and he wishes to return to it. Some three mouths ago ho was at my house, 
md he wishes to return. I told him I couldn't advise him, but if I were in his 
Mtnation I wouldn't risk it. So severe was the other party, that in a few days after 
^left, JQst on mere suspicion, after I had forgotten the circnmstance of his being at 
ffly bonse, there comes the fellow that had been employ <*d on the other side (and they 
JMde a mistake when they employed him) to come and to probe around me and seek 
^ployment long enough to find out whether McDowell intended to come buuk to the 
coonty or not- He stated Judge Moore had got him to do that thing, and he went and 
^«ld Judge Moord he could not find out. The judge studied awhile, and said, "God 
damn him, if he ever does attempt to come back again*, I hope ho will be killed before 
begets here, and he shall be killed anyhow." Ho says, ** I dou*t care uuything about 
it myself." That is what that witnoss'inlbrnied me. *McDowtll now is ofl* in tuat sit- 
uation, and he cant come back under those circumstances. Up to that time, and for a 
^hile afterward, I think it was a settled question that there were Ku-Klux. I had to 
take that fh>m the general appearance of things. I had no recourse to their records or 
anything to find out ; bnt since there has been a law passed by Congres.s called a Ku- 
Klax law, and Aleck Stevens, of Georgia, has stated that there wsis a reguhu' Ku-Kius. 
organization during the rebellion, and that thesa were bastards, that has come out now. 
Tbcy say they don't want to be known as bastards. There is a report got out now thab 
there is no Ku-Klux ; and so, when you ask me who are Ku-Klux and who are not, I 
caJtt say, becanse I can only judge by their acts, and when they say it Is at an end, I 
don't know which is the afilrmative with it. ^ 


^y tbe Chairman : 

QueBtioiL I will vary tbe qaestiou, and put it in this fonii : Hare these wkippioga, 
killiogs, and expulsiuoa from the coautry been committed^ as a general thing, by men 
who were in disguise f 

Answ^, As I was not present and never took no pains to know, technically, all the 
facts in regard to that, I can simply say this : The men who do it generally can be 
foand out, and when it is mentioned in circles about, these men that are known as Ku- 
Klux nod to each other and are generally pleased ; but if a republican is there, he bangs 
his head, and knows if he goes to reasoning anything, that in a night or two his house 
will be capsized and he will be swung to a limb. 

By Mr. Bucklkt: 

QuestUm. Did you boar of disgnised bands riding through the county f 

Answer, I have seen them myself. 

QitestUm. Recently f 

Answer, Yes, sir. One of them dropped off a piece of horseshoe galloping by me, and 
I have the shoe now. I tracked him borne and fitted it to his borse^s foot — or jnnle, 

By the Chairman: 

Que$Hon. State what is the common opinion or understand! n;; as to these ontran^cs 
having been committed t»y men banded together and in disguise. 

Answer, All the people who suffered for these opinions and are loyal to the oonntry 
are satisfied that it is an organized band. They are not so particnlar about the name. 
They know it is an organized band, determined to act in opposition to the United States 
Ctovemment. On the other side, these men that do it don't come out — that is, they do 
come out. They say there is no Ku-Klux in the country, that there is notbing wrons, 
that it is all law, that there is perfect law and order ; in fact, that is the way they csSi 
it. I don't think it is any other thing from the conversation I have heard. * Yon may 
go to one of them— just there, I willsay (I had forgotten it entirely) I have another 
very important thing. I have made a memorandum somewhere, but I haven't got it 
here, but when 1 beard it I thought that wortld do to notice. When there was such 
a reign of terror and ever>'tbing going on in this way, I saw General Crawford here, 
and we thought we had the tlyng secured and we would get military assistance. Gen> 
eral Crawford promintMl, and no doubt thought he wouhl give it at the time. But things 
took'a change. Well, for a few weeks that Ihiug threw them in suspense. I suppose 
for six or eicht weeks things went down, and I started te hope we were going to have 
peace, and all of a sudden there was a worse outbreak than ever. A man 1 can rely 
upon informed me that he heard Judge Moore, there at Brooksville, say that; '' Damu 
them, we have got them now." 

Question, When was that? 

Answer, When was the United States court held here f last November a year ago. 

Mr. BccKLEY. In 1869 f 

The Witness. Yes, sir; soon after that; here in January after that 

Que8tion. January, 1870? 

Answer. Yes, sir. He says, " Damn them, we have got them now." Says he, " Some 
damned rascal has wrote to Smith for soldiers in here, and Smith wrote to me to know 
whether it was so or not, or whether there was any need for them or not, and I wrote 
him word that we didn't need any soldiers here; that everything was right and Jiothing 
wrong, and I have the promise from Smith that there shall be no soldiers sent here," 

Qnestion, Yon mean Governor Smith, at that time governor of this State f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I forgot to mention he was governor. 

By the Chairman : 
Question, What has been the condition since f 
Anstoer, They took a start right there, and run over everything rough-shod. 

By Mr. Blair : 
Question, Who was the man who told yon that Moore said this f 
Answer. James Ketchnm. I have invariably, since that, when any man would corae 
to me and talk about it, (I can't say quite invariably, but very ueady so,) said, ** We 
are helpless, an<l to aggravate an already exasperated community, where they have 
everything in their own hands and everything against us, we had better be ^uiet, and 
stay at home and attend to our own business, and try to never have a Oilision with 
them on any subject; for it is useless to talk alKMit coming in contact with them when 
thev have every controlling power except phynical force, and our physical force is worth 
nothing without a law for to protect us.'' Our law is good enough, to my iudgment ; Just 
as good as I want, if it would be administered ; but it is ver^ difficult tor me to under- 
stand that a law could be framed upon any x>rinciple of justice that would protect one 
class of men to the exclusiou of another. ^ 


By Mr. Buckley : 
QumtiM, Hm any one been anreatedy or indicted, or tiiod for these killings of which 
yoo ba?e made mention f 

Auwer. The first case, for killing Levi Murphy, as I told yon, fourteen or fifteen citi- 
seofl were ther«s and not an effort was made : anu I think, probabljr, out of them some 
of them aasisted him off, bat I don't say so ; I think it was so. 

Qumtion, Ho, however, left the country f 

ijmMr. Yes, sir. As to the prosecation, it is probable that there are some proseon- 
tioDS. Yon know these grand jury proceedings are secret. I think probably there have 
been some bills of indictment made ; but those bills of indictment, if you will investi- 
gate them, are made for a mere sham to cover up and conceal crime, and when they 
were handed out to the sheriff, before the sheriff would come one step to serve them, it 
will be like this : " Here, Buckley, by God, see yonder is Jim Montgomery. I have 
got a capias that will play hell with him. He had better leave. Then you whip 
ironnd and tell Jim to leave." As soon as the sheriff has given the wiuk, he goes aud 
nmmons three or four men, and says, " Here, boys, I have a capias to serve on Jim, and 
1 mit bavB it served or they will say I haven't done my duty." Then the men with the 
writ will come around that way when he knows the man has gone this way, and 21 ve 
him time to get away, and then come back and prove that he has done his duty, lou 
can get proof of that. 

QmttioM. Is the Judge of the circuit court there efficient f 

isMwr. I have regiuded him as a good man. 

QuaHoiL Is he regarded as a ^ood jud^e f 

Jntwer. I can't speak so positively. X have regarded him as a gentleman, and not 
only a gentleman, but he has been accepted by me as a judge, under the circumstances, 
as most men. 

Qfustitm, What difiSculty do yon find, then, in executing the law there f 

Jsmer. Judges generally live remote frum a grttat many of the county seats in their 

QumUm. Is the trouble with the Juries f 

Awwer, Let uie answer the other question first. And where things are carried on in 
thifl organization, a disguised one, it is very difficult for a judge to arrive at facts and 
decide upon cases of that nature without going outside of his Judicial office. That is a 
thing I look to. I cK>n't put that to Judge Haralson. I say all Judges were put in that 
litoation. Inasmuch as Judge Haralson will be called into question, I will say I regard 
Mm ftB a gentleman. Not only him, bot any other Judge Would bo in that predicament 
in getting in there, because I live there among them, and they are ahead of me^ long 

Qnmtitm, Is it difficult for the grand juries to find bills against such men as commit 
chines in your county f 

Answer, I will state this : It has been twenty years since I have looked over the law 
in regard to the selection of Juries. I have frequently seen Jm'ors in the box there and 
noticed around the community what sort of men were on the Juries, and I would rather 
p^y a game of seven-up with the best gambler in the world, with one hand tied behind 
oe and both eyes put out, for my chance to win a stake, than to try to get a Jury there 
that I would call an impartial one now. 

Question, Do you mean that they have discriminated on account of political sentiments 
tad Union feelings f 

Answer. As I told you awhile ago, where things are clandestinely managed, it is dif- 
fieoH to t^L lliere is Doctor White, a good neighbor, a fanner, a mercliant, and citi- 
z«n. As far as I know, he is a gentleman with any man that sits aroiiud here. I don't 
know who you are all here, but I understand that there are some here now that belong 
to both political parties; but I don't believe that Congress would have sent anybody 
here but gentlemen, no matter what party. Now I will risk any man here, be he who 
he will, to try Doctor White as long as he wantd to, and he will pronounce him a gen- 
tleman and a good citizen. He and several of his neighbors I can speaft of, aud not one 
of these men have ever been seen on a grand Jury there. In the same neighborhood 
where I live, the most dissolute and worthless men are generallv on the Jury, and men 
nsder the most complete control. Ton can't pull your shoestring and tie it up more 
easily than they can manage these scamps. As an evidence of it, take the way I was 
prosecuted for killing a man, and the same man came in without my knowledge, unex- 
pected to me, and gave the evidence he did. That is a specimen of a great many cases 

By Mr. Blair: 

QNesfum. The same man who prosecuted yon came in and did what f 

Answer, The grand jury found a true bill against me for an assault upon a man with 

mtenlion to kill him. I didn't know what to be at, for I knew of no such occurrence. 

Ancptive is hard to prove, but I knew I had done nothing of the kind. Nobody knew 

it 1 was at the end of my row ; but it comes up in court. I didn't employ any conn- 


8el. Judge paralson was the jud^e. When it was first called up, I said, " Jnd^e, we 
will not quarrel about it. Dinner is close by. I think, probably, if you will wait until 
after dinner, and call this case up first, may be I will go into trial.'' He came back 
after dinner, and asked me what I would do. ** Mr. Shaphanl," says he.' I says, '* We 
are ready." The man I was alleged to have killed was the first witness, and ho swore 
positively that he always regarded me as a gentleman, and If he wanted to selecc a 
friend would prefer me to any other man ; that I had never tried to hurt him at alL 
The grand jury had found a bill of indictment against me of that nature. 

By Mr. Buckley: 

Question, Returning to the subject of elections; were instances, of the kind you have 
related to us, common in that county— about controlling men's votes, and intimida- 
tion, and so on T 

Anstvcr. Yes, sir. 

Question. Have you on election days there seen anything of the sort f 

Answer, Yes. There's McDowell's case 

QuesHofi. Have you reason to think such occnrrenoes are frequent f 

Answer, My aim is to give a positive answer, because witnesses may follow after- 
ward, and I don't want discrepancies between them and me, and I wane to be particu- 
lar. In that same election for which McDowell was whipped, a few weeks afterward 
Thomas Harper started to Huntsville with his wagon. He came «ome fourteen miles 
from home, and in the course of the night a band of dis.^nised men came and called 
him up. They asked if he didn't vote in the late election at Summit, and vote the 
republican ticket. He told them he did. Tliey asked him what he meant by it. He 
told them that was his choice. He was then asked if six other men had not voted that 
same ticket, calling their names. He told them he expected they had ; that they were 
on that side, as they understood each other, all being on that side. They then gave 
him assurances that if ever he voted a ticket of that kind, or any of the other six did, 
they would come and see him again, and give him a trip over the moon. Mr. Harper is 
a farmer, a very industrious man, and one of the most inoffensive and honorable men 
I have ever been acquainted with. I have these facts from his own mouth. He came 
to me for advice to know how to act in the matter. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. Do you know any other men who have been intimidated from Toting 
according to their opinions? 

Ansiver, Well, sir. I have heard of a great many others, but I would just state that 
is the general complexion of the country. I ^ve these facts as some. Whenever you 
inqnire into of them in any shape, you will strengthen my sentiments whatever 
shape you work them in. I prefer not attempting to be anything like accurate abont 
things I haven't conversed with, and to find the technical details it is so difficult, when 
you come to rule the evidence, to carry out all these things, without a conflict or 
trouble, and I prefer not to make anything more than a general statement, as matter of 
common belier. 

Question. Did I nnderstand you to say you had seen men riding through the country 

in disguise, banded together. 
Answer. If you didn"t 

r you didn't understand me to say that you misunderstood me very widely, 
for I say positively I have seen them ; how often I am unprepared to say. I have seen 
them twice within less than two hundred yards of my house. 

Question. How long ago was that f 

AnstPer, Now that is a thing I am lacking in; but the very night Horton -was 
v^hipped they passed my house twice. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, Which Horton f 
Answer, He is here, I think, probably. K he has not been in here ho will he in. 

By the Chairman : 
Question, The old man or the young man f 
Answer. The young man, abont twenty-three or twenty-four. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Qticstion. Some time last December f 
Answer, Yes, sir, about that time— the night he was whipped. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. What other night did you see them riding in disguise f 

Answer, Within the last three months a parcel of men came up to my gate and beg^n 

to holler. I had heard the horses' feet. I know I heard them. I hoard them when I 

was getting up. I have got a couple of my daughters trained for these things, and if 

the Ku-Klux ever come there, they intend to meet them and embrace them. .They got 


vp and went out, and thej began. It is things that had better not be talked abont, bat 
one of them came inside of the gate. While they went oat of the front door, I went 
out of 1*^6 back door, and I was getting behind the smoke-house, and they were going 
to entice them around. 
Question, That is what yon mean by " embracing t" 

Jn»wer. They went out and shook hands and arms with them, and if they had any 
bosiuess they would bring them in the house, and I fixed my position if they went on 
to meet them. I have a very savage dog, and that created' a little confusion* and some 
of them, I expect, were drunk, by the way they acted, and they became pretty rough, 
and another of my daughters spoke to the girls, and said, *' Girls, you had better come 
in the honse." She spoke before she thought. Somehow it dlduT fetch any further. 
It stopped at that. 
Question. Did these men make known their mission, or what they came for ? 
Ahswot. That was so immaterial with me I didn't inquire. All the fkct I rested in 
was, if they wanted any business in my house I wanted them to have an open way to 
come there, and I provided for it in the way I told you. I don^t know who they were 
yet I never tried to find out. If they want to come, they may come. I know I am 
in danger all the time, but the man that expects to get along in this world without 
danger certainly has not lived long at headquarters. 
Question, Has this been known in the community ; have you spoken of this befbre ? 
Afswer. 1 think this is the first time I have told it ontside of my family. lam, 
maybe, tilling it now where it would make the case worse, but as Greneral Jackson 
says, *' I think it will be difficult to make it much worse with them." But, understand 
me, I don't know who are Ku-Klux and who are not. Heretofore they have said they 
were Ku-Klux, but now no Ku-Klux. 

Question. How numerous are they understood to be, or to have been, in your county 
at any one timet 

Answer. Well, sir, I have been to some pains to ascertain, and I suppoae the organ- 
ization must number about three hundred, and then the influence, and sdl combined 
together, might nearly double it. 

Question. You mean by that that there is an equal number who co-operate with these 
di^uised bauds f 
Answer. 1 am satisfied that there are about three hundred. 
Question. That co-operate with them t 

Answer, That wear these fine robes — I don't know how to describe these things over 
the head — thrown over them, and they have ma^ks on. I have seen them as far as- 
from here across tl* street, about one hundred and twenty yards, by moonlight, just get- 
ting a glimpse at the thing passing by moonlight, where fifty or sixty men were gal- 
loping by. But I was neiirer than that. I am calculating from the house. I suppose- 
I was within forty yards of them. 
Question. Were the horses disguised t ^ 

AMtcer. Yes, sir. 
Question. How large a company f 

Ansvcer. I suppose, unless I saw the same twice, I should judge there were fifty oc 
oity. \ 

Question, When was that f 

Answer, That was the same night I was telling you of before. 

Question, Do I understand you to say that it is supposed that there are some three* 
hundred more men who sympathize and co-operate with these disguised men in Blount 
County T 

Answer. As accurately as I can speak about that ; in my conversations with men L 
have fallen in company with them to know how matters and things stand there, and* 
that is my conclusion. I haven't not traveled over the county for information or that 
sort, bat when people come to mo in distress for counsel, and tell over these matters, L 
have tried to get the correct situation of the country, and that is the conclusion I have 
come to, that their force would be about double as strong. Here, for instance, is ^n 
old man who has three sons. He will not disguise himself, but he furnishes horses and 
rigging for the boys. The boys count as disguised. Maybe he has two or three brothr 
en who have no sons, and, footing it up all the way around, I think there is about as 
many Ku-Klux undisguised as disguised. 

Question. Do you know of any depredations that this organization has eommitted 
upon ehorches or school-houses f 

Answer. Well, sir, I think it was in the month of April — I don't know what year— 
bnt on the first adoption of the school system under Governor Smith's administration, 
this man, Lewis Copeland 

By Mr. Buckley : . 

Question. You refer to 18687 

Answer. Any of you can date it better than I can, for I don't keep any public records, 
aad seldom ever talk about it. I don't know that I have had a conversation about 
thic matter in six or eight months, until right now, but I recollect what I have seen. 

48 a 


By the Chairman : 

Question. It was after your constitution was adopted f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; all under that. I happened to be called along the roa<l, and wanted 
some directions about the road, and I stopped at Lewis Copolaud's gate. I saw him 
come walking up the road with some children along that had their elates and hooks. 
After I got the directions I wished concerning my route, he remarked to me, as the 
children passed by, **Now, there is a schgol commenced last Monday, and itishroken up 
fdready, and to-day is Thursday." I asked him what broke it up. He said he did. He 
went on then to tell that ^' they might have known before it commenced that it 
shouldn't stand there. No damned radical school should stand." He studied awhile, 
and said, '' To-day is Thursday and to-morrow is Friday. It will take all day to-mor- 
row to Ax up, and next day is Saturday; there will be no school ; and then Sunday, and 
I can go to work and lose no more time, and," says he, *' Monday they will be out and I 
will be up to them, God damn 'em." » . 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Was this a white school f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. It was a school established under- the public school system, was it f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Who was the teacher of that school f ' 

Answer. It was a Miss Beeson, a young lady ; I forget her g^ven name; I know it 
Tery well. 

QuesUan, Was she an experienced teacher? 

Answer. As to that, I never troubled myself to find out anything of the sort, sir. 
These other things came under my knowledge, and might have probably passed unno- 
ticed if it hadn't l>een for that. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Go on with your statement. 

Answer. He remarked before he went ofif, '^ Old Tom Nations " (it is his granddaughter, 
and the hatred between him and the Nations was intense) " says it is his granddaughter 
and he will put her over in the Vallaning house, and just as sure as he does, it shall be 
burned down, and he shall never know who done it." I remarked that that would be aa 
inconvenient place for a school, I thought. Says he, " Where then t" I point<?d np, 
iumI said, " Would not that church up thete be a better place t" Says he, " Let her go 
in there." Says he, ^' The damned bitch shan't teach in the county, and no school that 
Tom Nations gets up shall be taught, or any other damn radical. I intend to bom 
them all out, and I intend that that house shall go too, church or any other house, and 
they will never know who did it." The school opened there the next week at that 
house, and in a few days it was burned down, or rather a few nights, for it was burned 
•down in the night. 

Question. Do you know of any other school-houses which were burned in that oonnty f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; up here Mr. Thompson had a school. These disguised men were 
complainiiM^ very much about it. I have seen the ashes, and I saw the house before it 
was bumeuT 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Was it a school for white pupils f 

Answer.' Yesy sir. I think the only complaint was that the school was radical. Mr. 
^hite, the county superintendent, came to me to see if I could give him any assistance 
in organizing negro schools there ; that the law requires that it should be impartiaUy 
done. There was this difficulty about it, particularly about Blountsville ; that white men 
were willing to undertake it, but that this disguised party had threatened them, and they 
were afraid to undertake it, for fear of being Ku-Kluxed, and they didn't know what 
their pay might be. It was a general thing over the county. They didn't succeed. 

Question. Did not establish any colored schools f 

Answer. I will not be positive, but I think he did succeed in getting one in one par- 
ticular neighborhood where these troubles didn't exist ; and that is the only one I have 
•ever heard of in the county. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. You have mentioned two school-houses as having been burned. 

Answer. They were churches instead of school-houses, and school was taught in theni 
and the animosity grew out of the intense hatred in regard to both, churches and schoola, 
BO far as that is concerned. ' 

Question. To what denomination of Christians did the church belong? 

Answer. Well, the house was built and occupied and controlled by what is called the 
Methodist Episcopal Church of the United States. ^^ , 

Question. Sometimes called the Methodist Church North digitized by vjOOQIC 

Answer. Well, we don't make that distinction over there. We call it theOld Church 


which I reckon is abont the same thing. We have been careful to call it Old Church, 

becaase we want this North and South to die out. 
Question, How many other churches have been burned t 

Amtter, These are two I have seen ; I know them to be so. Others I have heard of, 
bat being no public man, I haven't tried to get facte about that. 

Question, How many others have you heard of as having been burned ; I mean the 
number generally over the country T 

Answer. There are not many others. Wherever there haa been one that has not shared 
the ssune fate it has been threatened. 

Question. Were any threats made against men and women who should teach colored 
schools t 

Aiuncer. O, yes, sir, yes, sir. 

Question. What threats? 

Answer. If you call it threats, it was just this : th^t they had to take a hundred lashes 
or two hundred lashes, aU pretty severe, or if that wouldn't do they would have to 
take a trip over the moon. That was the amount of the threats. 

Question. Did you ever hear any such threats made yourself t 

Answer, O, yes, sir. 

QuesHou, Often! 

Anstcer, 1 can't say often, for this reason : that I don't go from home much, and in con- 
versation on this subject in crowds, when I hear it commence, I retire. The informa- 
tion I get now is by this : when people are pushed to the very last resort, and can find 
no shelter, sometimes they come to me, and say to me, " Can you do something ?'' and 
for the last two years I have told them wo had better try to be quiet and get along the 
best we can. 

Question, Is your daughter a teacher t 

Answer. Yes, sir ; she has taught in Augusta, Georgia, and Athens, Georgia, and Jack- 
son, Tennessee. 

Question, lias any school of your daughter's ever been broken up, or has she been prer 
▼ented from teaching any school t 

Answer. Well, Mr. Pratt, I could give you some most effective evidence of the kind 
70a would want, but inasmuch as sno is my daughter, and I int-end to try to live by 
ny own efforts, and encourage peace and harmony, whenever that is in my power, and I 
believe that is her homo, and inasmuch as she has been able to stand up against it sin- 
gle-handed so lon^, if you will let my daughter's private matters go, jf you please, I 
will not say Anything about them. If they draw this into it or got so low they can't 
€0 without it, let them take it up ; but if she has by her prudence and discretion waded 
throogh these things, and can stand up without it, I asK if the committee wiU permit 
W to do so. 1 am not afraid for hor to come, and more than that, if you want her, I 
will bring her ; but I think, gentlemen, you will not require it. But I promise you 
sbeshsdl come, and more than that, when she comes, you will not have a doubt about 
anything sho says. 

Quesiunu Have you any objections to telling the committee who threatened to whip 
or bang any one who would teach a colored school ? 

Answer. No, sir, not in that shape. I don't know tiiat. You see the teachers were 
10 intimidated, they were afraid to venture into it, and I don't think, for this reason, 
there is any particular names, it is so well understood. 

Question. What I mean to inquire is, do you know what persons made these threats f 

Answer. Yes. sir. 

Question. Who are they ? ^ 

Answer. Well, Lewis Copeland is one man I beard make it. 

QuesUonmWho is Lewis Copeland f 

Ansioer. He is Lewis Copeland ; a man of notoriety over there. 

Quettion. A man of property and influence f 

Answer. He has a certain influence. He has a considerable connection right in the 
neighborhood. He can control things in the neighborhood, right there, by violence or 
any way. I heard his son John say the same thing ; and I heard Judge Moore say tho 
same thing ; and now, if you want names of that sort, I think very probably Mr. White, 
tho supenntendfent, can give you plenty of them and a great deal of information of 
the sort, because I told Mr. White to go on and do his duty. We had to take things us 
they came against us, and I couldn't do anything in the matter, but I know he made 
complaiot and came to me more than once. I know, in conversations with people from 
different parts of the county, they told me that difficulty prevailed in every neighbor-i 
hood but one, and there they succeeded ; but they were uneasy there, in the strongest 
republican neighborhood in the county, all the time, for fear of an act of violence. 

Question. Did you ever hear the existence of the Ku-Klux order in Blount County de-. 
Died until after Congress had passed the law known as the Eu-Klux a^t t 

Answer. There is the first thing where 1 was ever surprised about it. A republican 
eame and commenced conversation in the road in my presence to convince some of 
Ihem that there was no Ku-Klux and never had been in Alabama. Well, if you take 


vords and names according to the nniversal nomenclatnre of things, it was Just as 
certain os anything in the world that there were Ku-Klux up to that time, and I 
thought for a man of good sense to talk that way looked foolish. He talked on and 
pulled ont a paper from Aleck Stephens in Georgia, that the original of the thing — the 
Ku-Klux — they had up in the rebellion, and when the surrender went, that was sur- 
rendered too, and there has never been any since. That's what he founded it upon. 
That happened lately. I began to notice back, and as far as I could see into it, tliea^ 
seems to have been a whisper sent out from headquarters, ^' Bo^s, if any of you have 
paroles from Vicksburgh or Chattanooga, before you go into this fight burn them up. 
It is all understood ; we are not Ku-Klux now. They may put us on oath, and maybe 
ask you if you see any Ku-Klux ride, and then it was not Ku-Klnx.'' If the bill of in- 
dictment comes for Ku-Kluxing, and they are pushed for witnesses, they are going to 
dodge it in that way. 

^iesHan. You say that is their cub since the Ku-Klux bill passed f 

Armcer. Yes, sir ; they have all that £xed up. I know that is the case in Blountsville. 
I don't know bow it is m Madison. 

Question. Does the organization^ no matter by what name it is known, exist as much 
in Blount County as beiore the Ku-Klux bill was passed ? 

Answer, I should say, if anything, it is a little stronger. It is diflScult to say pre- 
cisely, but there has been little variation in it, and I think it is a little stronger. 

QtMsUon, Do they still continue their outrages f 

Ansioer, As late as last spring a woman was whipped in the night and ordered ofit 
and driven ofif from the county. Two or three days before, fourteen or fifteen men in 
disguise went there and shot their guns ; went under a pretext that they had a war- 
rant to arrest tbem for some offense, but instead of arresting them peaceably went 
there and opened their guns on them. 

By Mr. Blair: 

Qu€8ti<m, Where was that f 

Ansicer, In Blount County. 

Question, In what part, what neighborhood! 

Answer. A1>out thi^e miles from mv house. 

Question, How far from Blountsville f 

Answer, It is about eight miles by the road. 

Question, What was the name of the man that was killed f 

Answer, I didn't say killed. I say they shot at them and shot holes through their 
clothes,, but didn't kill anybody. 

Question. What was the name t That is the question. 

ATiswer. One of the men is named Alldredge who was shot at. Another was named 

Question. What is Alldiedge's first name f 

Answer, Edward, I think. 

Question. What was Dinsmore's first namef 

Answer, Joseph Dinsmore. 

Question. Those were the men who were shot at f 

Answer. Yes, sir. Now, gentlemen, let me end up that matter in my own way. I 
don't say whether either of them are of good character or of bad character, or any- 
tiiing of the sort, because I don't know ; but I say these things occuri^ed in the neigh- 
borhood where peace, law, and order ought to have prevailed among these men , and the 
names, I expect, of every one that was engaged can be |?ot very easily. What it was 
about I don't know. I learned that the pretext for coming upon them wiis this, that 
they had {^warrant to arrest these two men, and when they hunted them uf , they hap- 
pened to find them thefe at that house, and when they found them there, and shot at 
them and didn't get them, they became greatly enra^eid, and swore that if that woman 
didn't bring them up she should leave, and at the time to bring them up they didn't 
come, and tliey went and Ku-Kluxed her and gave her fifty lashes and made her leave, 
and she had to leave pretty much everything she had ; her dependence for a living. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Da you recollect any other instances of violations of law by men banded to- 
gether since last spring f 

Answer. There is an old man here now by the name of Horton. I haven't spoken to 
him about it. 

Question, We have heard his case and you need not state that. 

Answer. Yes, sir. One of his sons is dead now, that they called upon some five or 
six months ago in the night. A man that lives about two hundred yards from the 
house told mo that it was the cause. They beat him so ho took sick and'died. He died 
within four or five days after they beat him. They took him out of his bed in the 

ight, and they would make a marlL forty or fifty yards oiT, and would lay hickories te 

^1 as he started. They had a mark for him to put his too on when he jumped in the 


dark night. They had another mark that he had to jump over, and they gave him 
five for not coming up to this mark, and gave him five for not jumping over that, and 
they kept straining him that way and whipping him until they gave him two hundred 
bebes. exorcising him in that way. 

By Mr. Blair : 

QHtsiion. What was his name f 

Jimtrt. James Horton. 

OHe$1ion, A son of this man who has heen in horef 

Itmrer. Yes, sir. This old man I don't reckon knows it. He was gone ; they had run 
bim off when that happened ; ho only came back six weeks ago or such a matter, and 
they have now served notice on him to leave again. 

By Mr. Bucklky : 
Quesii&n, What was the cause alleged against this Mr. Horton f 
Auwer. I never heard any cause alleged at nil. This Mr. Billing^sly, I asked him, 
'* I suppose Jim died ?" He said, " Yes." Says I, " I am sorry to hear it." Said ho, " If 
you bad seen what I did you would have been glad of it." ** Why t" says I. Says he, 
" I wonld rather be dead all the time than treated as he was." Says he, " These Ku-Klux 
went on him and took him out, and how would you like to be jerked out of bed at 
ujght and worked the way he was f a gang of men with hickories and clubs to mai'k 
off a place and stand on each side so yon couldn't dodge and had to go full split, and 
had to JDst toe the mark exactly here, and just jump the mark there, and they kept 
yon on in that way until you couldn't jump, and when they had exhausted you m tliat 
way, jost take you up and give you a hundred lashes and order you to bed again. 
Could you stand that, s^r t" Mr. BiUingsIy said that was the cause. I have frequently 
heard them say there — there's a preacher they bad employed, a man of some note, named 

By the Chairman : 

Question, Tell the committee all you know about Mr. Lakin. 

Anwer. The most I koow about him is this : That, when he came into this country, ho 
spoke about what his business was, and that, according to the instructions ^veu him 
by the conference and the duty he was sent out on, ne 'wanted to . disseminate the 
Gospel, and to know whether I thought it would be agreeable for him to come over 
there into my counti^. I told him I would like to see him over there. An appoint- 
njcnt was made for him. That was his first visit; and before he ever got up into the 
pulpit to preach, I heard the probate judge call him "a damned political preacher." 
He has been a political preacher ever since by name, reported as that, and persecuted 
as that. There is a lawyer living over there, belonging to some shebang, that has got two 
^ives, I know, and I don't know how many more. He wi-ote over a fictitious signa- 
ture, and had it published in a little paper over there called The Independent, signed 
"Beeswax," (Gibson showed it to people there before he sent it, so tney knew what 
was to como out,) accusing Lakin of being a political preacher, and a radical, and 
sleeping with negroes, and all that— a mighty low-down thing. Well, we didn't take 
any notice of that. When they talked about it, I told them to hush. I said, if a man 
bad God Almighty to protect him and couldn't live over that, he might sink. Gibson 
bad already two wives in the country ; and, what do you think, if they didn't catch 
him in bed with a negro woman in about two months after that, hugging and kissing 
ner! He packed out, and about the balance it's not worth while to teS. They turned 
him out of the church, and I think the reason they did it was because the case was 
»o plain thej^ had to in order to keep up appearances. Gibson ^^as a very i^spectable 
mau, and never ha^d been oiFensive to society there ; but this man Lakin is a very 
ofifensive man there. 

Question. What was the reason he was odious t 

Aimcer. Just because I can't tell that now. I have a notion about it. I will say 

^is about Mr. Lakin : From the acquaintance I have with him — and I have known 
him for some time ; our intercourse has been of an intimate character — I have ever 
regarded him as a gentleman and a (Christian, and not only a gentleman and a Chris- 
tian, but a very energetic man ; and I am willing to stake as much on that as any- 
thing else; that I defy any man living, since my acquaintance with him, to point to 
one »pot on him now, sir, as to his moral character. But I have not been with him. 
The most of his labor has been out of my presence ; but from all I have seen of him 
jod gathered of him, I have this confidence in him. About sleeping with negroes, I 
know that's a lie. 

Questi^m, Was there anything in the charge they made against him of being a politi- 
calpreaoher : was there any foundation for it t 

AMm^er. I have conversed with him about that matter, and I have freoaentlv hoard 
H ipokcn of. When he preached they had that I told you of. Digitized by VjOOQIC 


By Mr. Buckley : 

QueaUan, Where? 

Answer. In the coart-hoase at Blountsville. Before he hod gone into the court-hooBe 
to preach, there was about a hundred men just across the street, not as far as it is »croas 
yonder, to that side of the street, not more than half as far ; two hundred men were there, 
at a grocery at the hack door, and had been drinking and disorderly, and the probate 
judge called him a damned political preacher. 

Question, Jud^e Moore f 

Answer. Yes, sir : and abont two hundred more on the other comer pretended to get 
up a singing-school, and I reckon yon could have hoard them three miles while he was 
preaching ; and then, while he was preaching, two dozen young fellows would come in 
pushing one another, and stand around and look, and walk right out before him, and 
conduct themselves in that way. They got out the tale about his being a political 
preacher. I happend to think about it and asked him once if had been such a thing. 
He says, " No." I says, " What did it start from, then f" Said he, " Did you hear the 
remarks that I made at Blountsville f " I told him ** I did." His remarks were these : " I 
have come here to preach among you. 1 come to do no harm. I come to try to do 
good. Inasmuch as that is our object, I now open the door to receive members into 
the church. But, before any person comes forward, I wish it understooil that wo have 
no Methodist Church South; no Methodist Church North; no Baptist Church North; 
no Baptist Ciiurch South. It is the Methoilist Episcopal Church of the United States. 
Now, if there is any person who is a secessionist, or in any way inimical in his feelings 
to\Yard the United States Government, lie ought not to join this church. I only re- 
mark that for fear some person might iguorantly become entangled. We hold that 
every man that is a good member of the church ought to bo loyal to the Government of 
his country. As for politics, that is not my business ; and if cvtR-you hear of a preacher 
in my church meddling in politics in a public crowd /anywhere let me know it, and I 
will silence him." That was after he linished his discourse. He said he had nefVer 
alluded to it in a sermon in his life. Ho said that was his charge from the conference 
when they sent him, to let the people know in a good, friendly way, that the Metho- 
dist Episcopal Church object to receiving people into membership who are not loval 
to the country. That was his duty. Outside of that I know of nothing concerning his 
being a political preacher. 

Question, Were you ever at a meeting when an effort was made to assassinate Mr. 

Anmcer, Well, I don't know whether I can say about the assassination or not. I 
know I was at a meeting, and I was certain that there was something of an unfiieudly 
character at work. 

Qtiestion, Go on and state the facts. 

Answer, I gave him an opinion about it, to be on his guard. 

Question. What meeting was that t 

Answer, It was at a place called Gum Grove, in Blount County. 

Question. Was it a camp-meeting t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; in the flail. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Did he preach in the day-time f 

Anstcer, Yes, sir. His subject — I forget the passage of scripture that was his t^rt'y 
but the subject was baptism ; and in taking it up he went back to the covenant of God 
with Abraham, of circumcision as an initiatory ordinance, and went on until the Chris- 
tian advent came in, and baptism was introduced and the circumcision abolished ; and 
ho spoke 8f the atonement being universal ; that the atonement of Christ might cover 
the whole wound. But before he did that he said, "My brethren, I am called a Ymi- 
kee and a Methodist, but don't be afraid of my taking offense. I am frail like othor 
men ; I might leave out something that would be important for a clear understanding, 
and so far as you think I haye not done my duty I am willing to do all the good I c»u, 
and you are at liberty to ask me any question you please." So, as he paused, an old 
fellow, sitting oft', looked up and said, '* I would like you to explain to this congreea- 
tion how you would circumcise a woman." Lakin says, "What did you say f '^ The 
old fellow asked, " How would you circumcise a woman f " Lakin said, " Well, sir, if 
you have lived to be sixty years old or upward, and never know that the promise of 
God applied to both female and male alike, I don't want to undertake to enlighten you." 
That was an qffense— one of the greatest offenses— that could have been done. At that 
camp-meeting, on account of this other thing I am going to tell you about, I adviaed. 
him not to show liimself after dark. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, What time of day was it when he preached this sermon t 
Answer, Eleven o'clock. After dark came he managed to get aix>und to^his bed and 


went to bed. I didn't suppose any of the people knew it. As soon as after dark, in 
came this band. 

By theCuAiit^iAN: 

QueBiion, Of disgnised men f 

Anmer. Yes, sir. 1 don't know ; it was the band that attacked him. A lady told me 
a nuui came up and pushed over her shoulder, and like to have pressed her off her seat, 
and ho got ux) to the altar. He was leaning over and up, and had a pistol in his hand 
as ho was leaning over, and another pistol stuck out of his pocket, and she could smell 
the whisky about him ; and he staid over there looking for Lakin, and another came up 
and palled him and said, " Is old Lakin over there ; G— d d — n him, where is hef " and 
sbo said, as they stood back in a moment a guii was tired, and in about a second or two 
another was fire<l at different places alon^ as signals. Well, a general excitement 
sprung up then, and a man there, I think his name was Rodeu, who lives over in Mor- 
gan County, became uneasy about his family. He understood that George Shelton 
oronght the crowd there. He went to Shelton, and told Shelton what he thought, and 
asked him to take them off, and Shelton told him If he requested it ho would do it. 
Shelton rode away. The signal was given by firing guns. Some put the number of 
gODs as high as fifty, but it is very uncertain about the number. I don't see how a 
man could tell ; you might under some circumstances, but any man knows that has 
heeii used to firing of guns, that it is very difficult to count them in the dark as they 
go off altogether ; and a considerable crowd went off with them. 

QueBiion. Mr. Lakin was not on the ground that night? 

An*tver. In his bed. 

Q^€8tion, On the ground t 

Awncer. About two hundred yards firom where they were. No person all night knew 
where he was. 

Quation. Were yon upon the camp-ground at the time of this monstrous birth of 
Mrs. Horton was exhibited t 

Answer. 1 was. 

Question, Did you see the child ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did yon notice anything unusual in its appearance f 

Ansufer. I did, sir. 

Question, Will you describe to the committee how the child was marked, as near as 
you can ? 

Answer, I didn't go into anything like an examination of it. It was just as plUin as 
that window that there was something wrong. The family were greatly distressed 
ahont it, and I expect I am the first one they came to about it. The grandmother of 
the child insisted upon it that it should be brought there. They wanted me to see it. 
I didn't wish it. The thing was done, and I didn't wish to be troubled with it. I saw 
it plainly ; there was nothing right about it as a natural form. I expect everybody on 
the ground saw it ; if the^ didtr t, it was their own £ftult. The people genei*ally went 
and looked at it and examined it. 

QuesHon. Did you notice anything in the child bearing the similitude of the Ku- 

^ Answer. As I told you^ I didn't make any examination with regard to that. There 
are so many wa^s for thmgs of that sort to be brought about on pregnant woman, and 
as it was preaching time ; and if I am at preaching I don't talk about politics or the 
praetice of medicine, but listen to the preaching and go home ; and the course of pro- 
ceeding was to make it as quiet as possible and let the preaching go on. I didn't want 
to meddle with anything outside. After it was done I asked the father of the child if 
rfie bad ever been whipped or abused by the Ku-Klux in any way. He said no. I 
aaked him if they had ever frightened her. He said he didn't know that they had, but 
they had been some half a dozen times to his house of nights while she was there, and 
scarcely a night passed, after they were there the first time, but whenever she got to sleep 
ill through the night she was screaminsf and scuffling to keep them off of hiui, and 
thinking she was in the house with her mther, and the Ku-Klux were ailer him. She 
▼as that way not in the day, but in the night. He thinks every night she was troubled 
about it in the course of the night. • 1 don't know which looked the worst, a Ku-Klux 
fi% yards off by moonshine, or that child in the coffin in the fix it was in. 

Question. Did it give particular offense to the Ku-Klux through that part of tho 
country that there had been a child born said to bo marked with tho Ku-Klux disguise? 

AMSwer, There is a doctor there, and a Methodist preacher — that i^ tho Metuodist 
preadier South — as I uuder^nd, told them that that iiad to be fixed up, and called him 
io for a post-mortem examination, to fix it up and publish it in the papers that it 
was all right, all straight, nothing wrong about it. The preacher is over there yet. 

Questioti. My question is whether members of this Ku-Klux order seemed to be dis- 
turbed alfthe birth of this child with the singular marks on it. 

Answer. The most I discovered to testify that, was that they said the child was born 


all right; and that it was a lie raised against the Kn-Klax fraternity. That was all the 
disturbance I heard. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question. Did they not go and whip the father of the child after that t 

Anncer, Yes, sir ; on the night when I saw them. They passed my hoase twice that 
night when they whipj>ed him. 

Question, Was this child's coffin broaght on the camp-gronnd f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; and set where everybody could see it. It was all carried on the 
very top wave. 

Question. How far did the parents of the child live from the camp-ground T 

Answer. 1 suppose a mile and a half or three-quarters. All the connection except 
him and her were there. Her state prevented her from being there. 

Question. The child was born dead f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Do you know on wh^t day or night t 

Ansv}er. It was the Saturday, I think, that the child was bom. It was carried to the 
camp-ground Sunday. 

Question. When was it buried f 

Answer. I think it was fixed up that they were ready to bury it then, but they carried 
it around to the camp-ground beforehand for the people to see it. 

Question. And buried it the same day t 

Answer. Y'es, sir. Here is a thiug that might be hrought up — that it might be 
thought to be exhi|^ited for effect; but it was not so. Tbo child's grandmother, au old 
woman, was sometimes childish, and, owing to the circumstances, it was not convenient 
fop her to go there. This first one was the young man's mother, and this other, she was 
at the camp-ground, and thoy thought that, to let the whole family see it, it should be 
broaght up there, and they broaght it. 

Question. And then carried to the grave ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; and when it came there, they thought everybody could have their 
curiosity gratified, and of course everybody, or almost everybotly, could get to see it. 
It was not with the object of making a talk at all, although it was generally taken 
notice of. 

Question. Was this camp-ground near Summit t 

Afiswer. It was some three miles and a half from there, I reckon. 

•By the Chairman: 
Question. I wish to ask you whether the laws are efficiently enforced at this time in 
Blount County, and whether men are protected in their lives and property there t 
Answer. 1 am satisfied they are not. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question. This firing on the camp-ground was done at night, was it f 

Answer. Y^s, sir. I suppose they commonly commenced preaching about candle-light, 
and it was half an hour after preaching was over. 

Question. There was no appearance of the Ku-Klu:^ there during the day, was there T 

Ansioer. No, sir; we never saw them during the day that I know of, there or any- 
where else. 

Question. No disturbance during the day 1 

Answet. Except what I told about— the interruption about circumcision, you know. 

Question. You have told the committee that you were indicted for an attempt to kill 
somebody ; were you indicted for any other crime T 

Answer. Not since that. 

Question. Not since that f 

Ansujer. Not since the surrender ; I will go hack of the surrender. 

Question' Prior to the surrender were you indicted for anything ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; frequently ; I have been indicted often. 

Question. What for 1 

Anstver. For almost every crime you can muster up. If it is important, I will get 
copies of the bills of indictment and send them to you to see. It has been so long 
back, twenty years. There is just this thing: there is a certain party over there that 
want to rule the county and rule the world, and any man that is in the way of them 
has to stand the storm. I had a way of just having my own opinion and feelings ai& nk 
free man, and they concluded that they would learn mejJjetter, I suppose, ancf for a 
long time bills of indictment came against me, and I finally learned that I had better 
keep out of company pretty much. 1 did so, and I thought"! was safe ; and when they 
X>ersuaded me to come into this political matter, I told them when it began I was 
going to catch it, and sure enough I did. By the time they found an indictment — 
court is only held once a year— after they had a trial I fixed and staid out. If I 
would go again, I would find four or five bills of indictment for stealing hogs, or marder 


or anything else. Whenever I have miDgled in society there where they could see me, 
bills of mdictnient came gainst me ; when I staid at home I kept clear of them ; 
bat I don't think any intelligent, high-minded man can go there and participate as a 
citizen in the intercourse of the country; if a high-mind^, honorable man, I think he 
will catch it. They will accuse him of negro equality and everything else offensive. 
Qtustioti, You think it is a great crime over there to beintoUigent and high-minded f 

Atutcer. You go and try to get them to vote for a negro, or for a negro to hold office, or 
to educate a negro, and you will see how it is. 

Question, Did they indict you for hog-stealing because you wanted to educate the 
negroes and have them vote f 

J««M?er. These old indictments — for about eleven years before the war they had no 
chance to indict me, because I staid away from the public meetings. One objection I 
bad when they pressed nie to canvass the county was, it would be inevitable that I 
Tould l>e returned to court and they would drag me about ; but they prevailed upon 
me. and snre enough the next court tbey indicted me for trying to kill a mac, and by 
the time they brought that to trial the excitement was over, the campcb^gii was over, 
and I have not been paiticipating since. 

Quf9iion. When were you indicted for hog-stealing t 

Anstcer, It was away back, years j I reckon in fifty-one or two. 

QufsUon. Were you tried on that indictment f 

Jitsarer. Tried on every one they ever found, sir. 

Question. How many indictments were found against you t 

Anfurer. I can't tell vou—numerous. I have never employed aov counsel or made 
iny defense. They call them up in court, and I appear, and theii witnesses invariably 
srrear. I never had a witness summoned to clear me in any of them. The bills of in- 
dictment can be got there if they are not destroyed. 

Question. Were you indicted for obtaining money under false pretenses from General 

Auewer. I forget now. I don't reckon I was, because there has never been but one 
indictment since the surrreuder— that is the one I told you about — and I never knew 
General Burke untU during the war. 

Queation. Did you obtain money from him ? 

Anstrer. There has been some transactions between General Burke and myself, not very 
important anyway ; but I will promise you this, that, if I ever obtained any from him, 
it was Dot under false pretenses. If it was, I am responsible for it. 

Quettion. Did you obtain money from him f 

Anncer. If you want an exact answer Is General Burke in town f 

Quetftion. I do not know. I suppose you know whether you obtained money from 
him or not ? 

Anmeer. Well, when you first asked that question I began to smell something ; now 
I just prefer, as it is started here, to clear it up. I siiy, if I did it under false pre- 
taaes, 1 consider that a very high crime, sir, if it was only one cent, and I ou^ht to be 
ponisbed for it. I ought to be exposed for it, if I am that kind of a man. li there is 
any little thing between General Burke and myself, (Jeueral Burke has never apprised 
me of it. I never heard of an intimation of it until now. 

Quefiion. WUl you answer the qntstion t Did you obtain money from him ? 

Anftcer. I think it very probable I did. 

Queation. State the particulars of the transaction. 

Anncer. 1 will state it with an if, and, if you are not satisfied, you can then ask 
another question. If I remember. Judge Humphries, now at Washington City, wanted 
me to remain here a little longer. I told him I was about out of money. Ho said, 
** VoQ CO to Nick Davis." I went? to Nick Davis. Nick said, " How much do you want f " 
I told nim, *■* Not much. Can I get what I want F He asked me if $15 would be enough. 
I said, " Yes ; only to pay my bill out of town." Says he, ** You can get lifteen hun- 
dred, if yon want it." He was a little in liquor, I thought, at the time. We met here 
on the street up here at the southeast corner. He says, " You go to Burke ; " aud be- 
fore we separated, Burke came ui», and he says, '• Burke, take care of this man. I have 
to go off. Do what he wants." I think I got three, or four, or five dollars from Mr. 
Borke, with the understanding, as I thougbt at the time, that Davis would attend to 
it, ftud it rather struck me that since there has bgen something said somehow about 
that matter, that it don't seem to be understood the way I understood it at the time it 
pmsed. In fact, I know I did get some money of Burke, and it was under these cir- 
cmnstances and just about that amount. That is all I can recollect distinctly about it. 

Question. Under the indictment which was found against you, did you get a continu- 
ance in court in Blount County, uxion your own atfidavit that ^Lr. Davis was your 
attorney T 

Anifwer. As well as my recpUection serves me. sir, I dou*t remember that I svcr 
asked for but one continuance in my life, and that was just to go out to. eat dinner 
in one case, if I recollect aright. I have always been ready for trial. VjOCK 

ilsestioH. I suk you distinctly if you did not swear in court, in support of a motion 


for a coDtiniianoe, slloginff that Mr. Davis was your attorney when that was not the 
fact, and when you Imow he was not your attorney f 

An9wer, Wei), sir, I am in hopes you will withdraw that thing ; really I am in hopes 
you will. 

Qu^tion, Speak louder, so wo can hear you. 

AnsiciT. If you believe I would bo guilty of such a thiog as that, I am in hopes you 
wouldn't think my evidence of sufficient importance to trouble the court or anybody 
else about it. I didn't do it. I never did in my life. When I have business to do^ if I 
am not ready, I stand square up and make it known; I don't dodge ; and I was in 
hopes that General Burke and Mr. Davis were too high-toned gentlemen, and under 
the peculiar circumstances, that I was engaged in the republican cause, and off from 
home, and I am no office-seeker — I never had an office under the Government before 
or since the war— that just for the sake of three or four or five dollars, I would rather 
give a gentleman three or four or five hundred dollars ; I have that feeling for as little 
a thing as that ; and for them to pick it up and brin^ it here on an occasion like this, 
when the happiness of the community is at stake, I thmk it is showing rather disrespect 
to the ca4ise of morality and patriotism. If my body is not worth it, I might raise the 
money, Mr. Blair. I think the clothes I have on ray back, aud what I have in my car- 
pet-bag, will pay it, and I think I have friends enough to pay the costs, and if I have 
been guilty of anything ungentlemanly or rogueish, or anything of the sort, here I am, 
sir. I want a government ; one thing I labor for is a government to deal upon the 
evidence of honest men, upon truth and justice. I don't want to be concerned in it-. 
If I had not regarded Mr. Burke and Mr. Davis as gentlemen, I never would have 
taken a cent from 'them, or asked them for it, and if they didn't regard me as one they 
ought not to have done it ; and if they regarded me as one and had lost confidence in 
me, they ought to have told me so to my iiice, and not brought it up in this way 
among strangers, when I had been good enough to befriend them as gentlemen. 

Question, You thought you befriended them in taking their money under these cir- 
cumstances ? 

Answer, I don't know as for taking their money. I think I befriended them in this : 
When I got on my horse, swam creeks, and rode day and night, and went on withoat 
any expectation or wish ever to obtain an office, knowing that they were both office- 
seekers at the same time, and I used all the influence and industry I could honorably do 
to help them build up the republican party here, and take care of the government at 
my own expense, without any further reward than protection from tne government 
and restoration of order in the country, and considered it an act of friendship for them. 
As for money, what little I wanted to pay my bill, after I had overstaid my time — 
the little change — I thought that came in as a thmg arranged for the convenience of 
the party ; not a personalmatter between two individuals or three, aud now, as I told 
you, I have heard something about this once since. My recollection was that there 
was a misunderstanding about it, and I have told you all I know about it. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Mr. Burke was a candidate for Congress, was he not, about that timet 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, In the democratic party f 

Ansicer, Yes, sir. I wasn't working for him. I understood them to volunteer to pay 
my expenses, and offer me further pay if I would require it ; but I was above working 
for money, and at the same time I was above putting up my horse and going off with - 
out paying my bill, and before it came to that, I mentioned it, and I understood theiu 
to propose to pay it. I got a little change to finish out the bill under those oircum- 

By Mr. Blair: 
Question, Do I understand you to say that Colonel Burke was the democratic candi- 
, Amncer. I reckon not. If he had been he wouldn't have been intimate with me. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, I meant to ask if he was the democratic or republican candidate f 
Answer. I understood Mr. Burke to be the republican candidate. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question. For Congress t 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. That is, they were candidates before the convention T 

Answer. Yes, sir. I will tell you all I know about it. There was a confusion got np 
!iere, aud I think hard feelings between General Callis aud General Burke. I hated to 


Bee that, and shnnned it on every oooasion, and I thought from what I heard at the 
time that General Burke judged me to be taking part against him, but he was mis- 
taken. I never did it ; but I think that some person mischievously made him believe 
that I was co-operating with General Callls against him. I don't know that ho thought 
80, but I think that he did. Both of them were on the republican ticket. 

By Mr. Blaib : 

Qvestian, Were you a witness here in the contested election case in Judge Busteed's 
court f 

Anmcer, I was, sir. * 

Question. What was the case ? , 

Antwtr. It was between Hines and Sherrod, in Judge Bosteed's court— right up 
here. ' 

Question. Did you testify in that case t 
Answer. If I did, I didn't tesa 

J testify to anything. 

Question. You didn't f 

Answer. I was a witness called upon, but I didn't testify to anything. 

Qnestion, Were you not called on the stand f 

An9iC6r. Yes, mr, 

Qu^sHon. You didn't testify to anything f 

Answer. I think as many as three questions were proposed to me, and my invariable 
answer ivas, no. Let it be whatever number of answers, to every question I answered 
no ; but I call that not testifying to anything. Do you understand it that \f ay f 

Qwstion. On the contrary, did you not testify very elaborately to facts, and make a 
long statement as to facts within your knowledge t 

Ansiccr. I did that, and will do it again, if necessary. That question I thought was 
settled here. When the questions were sent on here they ham^ened to exanune two 
or three witnesses, and the rule was fully undcrst^ood betbre I came on, and when I 
came in I remarked, " Itis useless to lose more time," and proposed, as far as I was 
concerned, to lot it go. It was settled right there. Creneral Walker was counsel, sitting 
right here, and said that the interrogatories had been sent on in a certain form, and tho 
matter should be conducted technically, according to the instructions sent, and they 
should ask the questions precisely as they were sent on, and the witness should say yes 
or no to them, and that excluded me, and I got up and went out. Now, I will with 
pleasure answer any other questions you can aak. I don't think you can vary it by 
asking any questions, or producing any evidence in any shape whatever. 

Question. Were you asked a question for whom you voted ija that flection ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. What was your answer ? 

Anstcer. I told them I didn't recollect. I heard that thing handled on tho streets 
here yesterday evening. 

Question, What did the judge say when you answered f 

Ansver. I don't rcmgmber that he made any remark. I explained the thing before I 
made the answer to the court. It was in this way : that I wasn't mixing out, and didn't 
intend to go to tho election, but some friends told me, a few days before, that they 
thought tho difficulty between Haughey and Hines was nearly arranged, and that if I 
would write a letter to Doctor Haughey, that would settle the thing, and they depended 
on me to come to the election on that day. Inasmuch as I had %ome business there, I 
agreed to do it, and I wrote a letter to Doctor Haughey about it ; but before I went to 
toe ejection, I found that what they had told me was^ot true ; that it was not settled, 
and that there was no chance to settle it, and when I got to the election, some of them 
came to me to vote, and I told them I saw no use in voting ; I said that the thing was 
decided ; that I cave up the election. Perhaps four or five got around, and got to talk- 
ing, and said, "Vote, vote:" "Don't back out." And I know I had more than three 
tickets in my hand, of different ones at the same time, and I was tired, and I just 
btepi>etl to the ballot-box, and handed in one, which had either Hines's or Haugbcy's 
name on it, and I don't know which. That was my evidence given in here. I can't say 
iwsitivcly which I voted for. I would have been more particular, if it had not been for 
this ; it was as clear as anything that the ticket wouldn't count for anything. If I 
had given it to Mr. Sherrod, it would have been the same thing. That was tho cir- 
cumstance under which I voted. 

Question. In your testimony, you have already said you did not answer any question, 
except yes or no. 

Answer. Yes, sir; but this thing about that voting, and who I voted for: I did not 
consider that who I voted for had any bearing at all on the matter that I was sum- 
munetl on. It seems to have been merely a question that crept in, and I had objected 
to answering any questions at all previously, on the ground that a man had come to 
me and got me to make some statement as to the matter or things, in writing. I did 
not know his object when he got me to do it. He induced mo to believe that Captain 
Hines wanted to soo it, and a written statement from me was necessary ^^that tho^ 


wanted to have a consultation. I thought that was to be the end of it. I didn't come 
all tho way from homo on that business ; I camo on other business. I bad done my 
business and started home, and was caught here below tho bank, and dragged iu here 
about that election. I was accused, and the counsel believeil it, no doubt, that I bad 
come all tho way from home to interfere, but it was a mistake. 

Questioiu Did you not answer to questions upou that trial, giving long and specific 
answers in reference to a great many points as to that election f 

Answer. If I didj I didnM; do it in the way of evidence. According to my recollec- 
tion, when these remarks were made, it was just casually in' coming to a conclusion 
about how to conduct it. The thing was not exactly settled, and^emarks of that char- 
acter passed backwards and forwards. 

Question, Were any of those statements made in answer to questions by the attor- 

Answer, What kind of statement's! 

Question, The statement you have just been speaking of that yon made on that trial. 

Anstcer, I told you among my statements was this, that the number of votes polled 
in the county was very far short of tho registered vote of the county— if you call that 
specific, which I suppose it is. My recollection of it is as nearly so as I could frame it, 
and as accurate as I knew how to do it. Then these men ought to have let me known 
when I was called in here. The question asked was something like this : *' How mnch 
I mixed about the canvass?" — something of the sort. " Well, I didn't do it at all.** 
" Did I see any act of violence, to keep a man from voting f ' " No, I did not." " Do 
you know; of your own knowledge, any man prevented from voting by violence f" I 
said "No ;" but these other things were talked of. They came up and were discussed 
around before we got into the formal examination. I will take pleasure in giving you 
correct information. I don't want you to think because I am not a good-looking man, 
my intentions are not good. I tell you you are sent out here on business for the good 
of the country and Government, and if I am not one for it, I don't know. I am will- 
ing to do more for that than almost anything. I take a pleasure always in anythiDg* 
I can do, sir. I made the remark yesterday evening, that I was very sorry that thin^ 
of that character should be so often brought in ; that it was the misfortune of the re- 
publican party, and the whig party, both, that we had too many scalawags; and; 
instead of aiming at the public good, and all these men working together to keep the 
scalawags out, we lot them iu, and they entangled a good many — got into various 
things by being in trouble vrith. them. 

Question, You stated in your testimony that Edward Alldredge and Joseph Dinsmore 
were shot at by a^arty of men that went to arrest them f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I stated that. 

Question, Who were these men t 
^ Answer, I didn't see the men, but they say it was a man named Trice, and a man 
named Leopard, and a man named Howell. 
' Question. Had they a warrant for the arrest of these two individuals f 

Answer. I have understood since that they had. These indundnals didn't seem t-o 
have known it at the time. 

Question. Had Alldredge and Dinsmore attempted to escape f 

Answer. It seems from their statement that they rode ux) to the house where they 
happened tc» be, and commenced shooting at them. 

Question. That is thfcir statement f 

Ansioer. The statement from the other side might vary the facts materially. Lict 
whichever be, if Alldredge is rigiit, they didn't conduct themselves as they ought to. 
They were as much to blame for their offenses as the other side. I don't give that as 
a thing against tho Kn-Klux. If there is a republican in the scrape, when it is left to 
me, I would put a double punishment on him moro than on the others. 

Question. You state that this occurrence took place last week or week before ? 

Anstcer. Yes, just the beginning of the week ; it was week before last. 

Question. The parties who went to an'est them did so under a warrant f 

Ansicer. That is what they said. 

Question. Were any of them officers? 

Ansivcr. I didn't hear of that. I inquired about that, but I couldn't learn if there 
was an officer among them. I imagine it was something got up like we see sometimes, 
somebody deputized and sent oat. 

Question. You ^ust* imagined that! 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Quention, You say that they went out under a pretext to arrest them, and yet yoti do 
not know whether they had a warrant for their arrest ? 

Answer. I would like before wo go any further about that, if you please, in order 
that I may answer more to yonr satisfaction — will you define the word pretext for nie t 

Quention. You said pretext. I snppose you meant something. What do yon me^u T 

Answer. I was not apprised of it when I used the language, that it might be con- 
Btrued, bu^ my object was to get the true meaning, and I can speak moro accurately. 


QueHum* I am not here to define words. You use yoarown words. I want to know 
in what sense you use them. 

Answer. From the friends of the party that went there. I learned that they said their 
reason for going there was, they had a warrant to arrest them. Whether tbey used the 
word reason, or pretext, or pretense, I am not positive, but that is ray understanding, 
in that way, that the difficulty occurred. I am not at a loss ; that is all straight f but 
to use any lan^age that could be construed to give an unfair face to it, I don't want 
to do that on either side. 

QuesHon, What was the crime which was alleged against these parties f 

Jmicct. I never could learn. 

Question, What was the character of the house in which they were f 

Answar, About like the average of other houses in the country, in the neighborhood 
there. I never hear anything much amiss in the house, or anything of the party con- 
cerned in it. They all stood pretty much around on an equality. 

QneUUm. You said you had nothing to say as to whether these were men of bad char- 
acter or not t 

Auawer, This last statement was what I meant when I said I was not mentioning. 

QnegiUm, W^hat do ^ou sav t 

Jmswer, When I said I didn't know arything worth mentioning in regard to whether 
tiiey were good or bad characters, that gentleman thought I said positively that I 
didn^t know anything at all, I have heard that maybe one of them got drunk, and 
maybe little things, family accusations, but I think they have all been generally 
friendly, or on an equality, and up to recently, I think, they have generally lived 
peaceably among each other. 

Quegiion, You speak of the burning and destruction of these school-houses and 
churches. The churches are generally, in that region of country, common log-houses, 
built on tho roadside, of no great value t 

Anncer. Not built on the roadside. We, over there, are not very refined, and for that 
reason, when we built, we.thought it advisable to have our school-houses and churches 
^way from where drunken men or others could interrupt religious services I don't 
Uunk that where a grocery is, or where tho customers of a grocery are, is the place for 
a school. We don't seek to send our children there. 

Que9ium. They are generally isolated — to themselves f 

An9tcer. Yes, sir, in the woods. 

Question, And they are frequently resorted to at night, by travelers, wayfarers, to 
sleep in them, are they notf 

Answer. I don't know that I ever understood that to be any ground of complaint, 

Qmestion, I ask as to the fact. 

Amswer, If such has been the case, I have never heard it, or known it. I have no 
reason to believe that either one of the houses has ever been occupied in that way. 

Qiusiion, I ask the question in this point of view : that houses standing isolated, 
akme, in that way, and sometimes frequented by travelers at night for purposes of 
shelter, could be accidehtally destroyed by fire f 

Answer. It ma^ have been so; I don't know ; but, if it was so, I have no idea that 
any travelers going that road knew where the houses were, because they were otf en- 
tirely in a private place, built there on purpose to guard against anything of the kind, 
fiur edacationol and religious services. 

Questum. The people of the country generally knew where they were f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; of course the congregations and the people who sent to school 
knew very well. 

Qnestion, In passing through the country from place to place, the people who lived 
in the countxy, knowing where these houses were, and that they afibnled a place of 
shelter in an inclement season, would resort to them for such purposes f 

Answer, 1 never heard of that. So far from it, I reckon an idea of that kind never 
occurred to an body but you. 1 have heard neighbors speak about it, and, I think, if 
anything of the kind had been given in conversation about among those interested, 
ajid if anybody had thought of such a thing, they would have mentioned it. 

Qmestiim, Do you know where this man Russell is now, who, you say, killed Mur- 

Answer. No, sir, I don't expect there is a man, or very few if anybody, who knows. 
He has gone. 

Question. Were you present when Murphy was killed f 

Answer. No, sir. • 

Question. You say a number of persons were present f 

Amswer, Well, people who were present told me there were twelve or fourteen there. 

Question. Do you know any one person who was present! 

AnsKer* 1 am personally acquainted with several— perhaps every one of them. 

Qnciiion, GiA'e us tno names of some of them. 

Amswot. If my recollection serves me aright, Gus Horton was present ; it was in his 


bouse. 'William Trice was prcBent. Now^ withio half a mile of that place jon can 
easily get up a good many nien, and it is almost like having all preflent^thirty or 
forty^'-Dut 1 will not say positively. I recollect Trice said, when Muipby was killed, he 
caught him in his arms; and I recollect to have heard Hortou say that, when Miiri»hy 
started in the room, the probate judge said to him, he had bettor not go in tliero, or 
something to that amoout ; then, about the balance of them, I think I know tbo men 
personally. I can't say which particular one was there, because in a few minutes after 
it was done, there was a great many there. 

Question, Why did Russell shoot him ; was there any quarrel between them f 

Answer, I heard of none. 

Question, You know of no reason for bis shooting him ! 

Answer, No, sir, no more than just this: so far as Russell's character is concerned, 
and all, I expect ho was rather a lawless man. I don't intend to saddle the neighbor- 
hood with him. He hadn't been living there long. He had lately come into the coan- 
try, aud in his intercourse with society, what time he remainod there, he didn't con- 
duct himself well. Everybody complained of him. I recollect a few days before that, 
a man came to my house ; Russell assaulted him, and he gave him a good whipping, 
knocked him down and stamped him. I have heard of several other altercationB that 
he had in a very short time. 

QuesHon, Were Gustavus Horton, and Trice, and the othsrs yon mention, all friends 
of Russell f 

Answer, I am not prepared to answer, but to gness at it, I shonld guess they were. 

Question. Were they Iriends of Murphy f 

Answer, If enlisted either way, I should think they were friendly to Murphy, becaoee 
they were raised there, and always got along well together. 

Question, They made no attempt U> secure Russell f 

Anstccr, O, no, sir ; none at all. 

Qivetiion, Did Murphy give him any proYOcatioQ f 

An9\cer, None that I know of. 

Question, What were the circumstances attending the murd^f 

Answer, As 1 recollect, they had a bottle of brandy or whisky in the counting-room- 
it was a Htore. It seems Russell had procured it and got it in there, and they probably 
had met to take a social drink, and Russell was very free in expressing himself in of- 
fensive language toward the republicans, and remarked that a radical or that a reiiiib- 
lican — with an epii.het of some kind— couldn't hold up his head in his presence. Jtut 
at this time Russell, it seemed, had directed the language to Murphy, and ho&ced up 
to him, and said, *' I can hold up mine, sir." Just about that time was the end of it ; 
he shot him, aud killed him. That is what they represented it to me. Russell went 
about a mile further — a man, out of his own mouth, told me he saw it — with a double- 
barreled gun, and a couple of cifizens there furuisned him a horse and means to get 
away. After a few days his father came in and go this effects and ^ife, and sent Ukem 
to him, and from that he went to unknown parts. I have never heard of him since. 

Question. You spoke of John F. McDowell, who voted, upon one occasion, the repub- 
lican ticket, and was threatened at the time. Were you present at that time ? 

Ansicer, No, sir. I st-ated, when giving in the evidencoj that I had the statement 
from McDowell. 

Question, From McDowell himself? 

Anrnier, Yes, sir ; and from others that saw it all done. It was a conceded fact in 
the community, and by the speot^ators. 

Question, You stated that J udge Moore, the jsrobate Judge of your county, sent a m»n 
to you to find out whether McDowell was coming back to the county f 

Anstoer, That's what the man told me. 

Question, What was that man's name f 

Answer, James Ketchum. 

Question, Where is Ketchum now f 

Answer. I exi)ect he is at home. 

Question, Does he live over there t 

Answer, Yes, sii* ; close by BrooksviUe. 

Question. Is Judge Moore a man of respectability and education f 

Answer, Well, I should think he would moke a very poor probate judge if he had no 
education ; and as for respectability, our code of morals over there won't apply to the 
geueral definition of things in that respect, but I should iudge that he ought to be re- 
spected by somebody ; and if he hadn't been, he wouldn't have got to be probate 

Question, 1 simply wanted yoor ideas on the subject ; not a disquisition. 

Ansioer, Mr. Blair, I always have held that a mean man was not worth talking 
about, and a good man ought not to be abased. 

Question, That is a very good maxim. 

Answer, I never had much acquaintance with Judge Moore, and never desired to col* 


Umie any, and perhofM yoa had lietier inqnire of somebody that has been intimate 
with him to kiiow his real standing and morals, 6cc 
Questiott, Weil, sir, your advice is -very ffood, probably. 

Anmoar. I dou't give it in the way of advice, bnt of explanation. I conldn't under- 
take to advise you about anything, Greneral. 

QueaU»n, You happen to be ou the stand, called here from yonr county ou the part 
of these gentlemen of the majority of the committee, and I suppose they assumed that 
yoa were a man who knew something about the people of your county ; and 1 ask tho 
question distinctly. 

Answer. I don't know who called me ; I understood you all were on the United States 

Quetiion, That is not the point I am asking you on now. What is the standing of 
this man Moore in the community f 

Aasioer, I told you that I never had much to do with him in any way, or tried to find 
o«t much about him. The most importanfi thing that ever came up between him and 
ISO had its origin iu these difficnlties, and he is with that gang, and, owing to his being 
coimected with that gang, that was enough for me about any man ; and I became sat- 
isfiod that, if he was one of them, I didn't want to carry my acquaintance with him 
aoy farther, and I have shunned lum ; I know he is one of them. 

Question. You know he is one of the Ku-Klux f 

Answer. I know he is with that gang, and I know a friend of his told me he was the 
cbief presiding officer, or Cyclops, when it commenced. 

Qaestion, Who was that friend of hisf 

Aatwer, Virgil Newsome ; and then the remarks he mode about the organization that 
they had gotten up to straighten out matters and hang people and lynch them, and 
that it would be carried out, convinced mo that I was not suited to his taste, and I 
didn't want to be offensive or burdensome. 

Question, Did he make that statement to you f 

Anncer. Yes, sir ; he looked me iu the face and rather bit his teeth together. 

QueiUoH. He told yon he waa connected with an order to lynch people f 
^Answer, He didn't use the language you use. 

QuesUou. I am usisg the language you used. 

Answer. I can use the same language you use and turn it about to make it something 
very different. You divide six by two, and the product will be three, but if you mul- 
tiply two by six it will be twelve ; and so yon can take words and make as much differ- 
flDce in words as in figures, by turning them. Mr. Moore confirmed the statement that 
it was an oryi^nization of that kind, and that it should be rigidly carried out. 

QnesiUm. Of what kind? 

Answer. That if a roan didn't go straight, or if he come in contact with that party, 
that they intended, in the first place, that somebody would take them out and give 
them fifty lashes, and, if that wouldn't do, they would string them up to a limb, and 
they shonkl never know who did it. 

Qnesiiim. Mr. Moore made that assertion to you f 

Anstcer, No, sir ; another man made tlie assertion, and then Mr. Moore looked at mo 
aiBd said it should be carried out; that they had that organization. 

$i(«9/ioit. When was that f 

Answer. That has been answered once. It was a short time before General Meade's 
<^er for the legislature to meet. 

QnesUon. You spoke of a man named James Horton, who, you s&y, was whipped to 
death, or was so beaten that he died soon afterward ; was that a son of this old man 
who testified beret 

Answer. Yes, sir. Let me stop you again, if you please, and, if I am going too fast, 
>top me. It was not exactly as you stated, but it was very materially different. I 
said he was very badly whipped, and ho died soon afterward ; but I understand you to 
Bay that yoa understood me to say that ho was so badly whipped that he died because 
be was whipped. He was whipped, and he went to bed and never recovered. 

Qmestion. That is what I understood you to say. 

Answer. Bat I didn't say but what he might have been sick outside of the whipping 
or something. 

ifu^stiou. VVh^ waa that f 

AnsHer. Well, I think it was last spring—along in the course of this year. 

Qnesti&n. You said he was a son of this old gentleman who testified here yesterday f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Yon stated that you did not believe the father knew his son was dead T 

Answer. I said he didn't know it. He knew he was dead, I reckon ; iiut I said I 
didn't expect that he knew about the Kn-Elnx whipping of his son. 

Question. Ho ha9^becn back there since, has he not ? 

Answer. Yes, sir; but we don't talk about such things much ; I don't ;^pieople that 
ooBoe aboat me don't talk much about it where I am. Digitized by OOOQ IC 

Question. Do you suppose his brother knew it f ^ 


Answer, Tea, sir ; I know his brother knows it ; I know that, because I recollect to 
have heard him speak uf it. I am confident he knows it. 

Question, Is it not rather a singular thin^ that when he was testifying here yester^ 
day, both he and his father, they neither ot them mentioned that fact ? 

Answer. 1 don't know whether it was singular or plural. I know one thing ; I was 
asked th6 question— pointed directly to it — and I felt it my duty to make the statement 
according to what I knew, and I reckon they did the same way. 

Question. Do you suppose his brother was aware of the fact that he had been whipped 
by thoKu-Khixf 

Anmcrr. I am satisfied that his brother was aware of the fact. 

QtiestioH, Did they live near together f 

Answer. About two miles and a half. 

Quesiian. Nearer than you do to him f 

Answer. About the same distance. I don't know that I would have thought of it, 
only go?ng over so many things, and asking questions, was the way I came to think of 
it. I didu't 8tart from home thinking of it. I don^ know when I did think of it 
before. It vft\s just reached as it came out firom me in that manner. There is nothing 
that I started from home with any intention of testifying. I didn't fix it before 1 1^. 
Tlieae things occurred from time to time. I didn't know what they were going to ask 
Pie, or who was going to do it, but, according to my recoUection, in the way they have 
conducted the examination, it will be reached in that way chiefly. 

Question. His brother was asked the question as to these outrages, and other ques- 
tions, yet he never mentioned such a circumstance ? 

Answer. Well, sir, I was not aware it happened, but a man that has no connection 
with that at all — and I believe he stands as an upright gentlemen — about two hundred 
yards off, told me that he knew it was so, and he saw it. 

Question. Mr. Billingsly f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Saw him whipped f 

Answer, He saw what was going on, and told me about their making matks, forming 
an avenue, and whipping him and making him leap ; if he jumped too far, knocking 
him back, and going on so until they exhausted him, and then, giving him a good beat- 
ing, they went off and left him. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. You stated that you had been often indicted, but had never employed a 
lawyer to defend you. What has become of these indictments? Were you convioted 
on any of them f , 

Anstpo'. Acquitted on all. I have never had a witness summoned. 

Question. Have you had a good many enemies in Blount County f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Was that on account of your known iK>litical opinions and pditioal 
actions ? 

Answer. 1 attribute it generally to that. 

Question. Are Union men under cow in that region, in Blount County f 

Anstcer. O, yes, sir ; very much so. 

Question. Is there not a very unfriendly feeling existing in that community toward 
men known to be loyal to the Government ! 

Answer. Their hatred is very intense, and has been ever since it originated. It never 
has cooled down. 

Question. About how many Uniou men are there among the white people of that 
county f 

Ansiper. Not mixing among the people freely and frequently, I might be mistaken ; 
but I have ever been satisfied that a majority of the people are Uniou men. 

Question. How do the democrats of Blount County express themselves in relation to 
the fifteenth amendment ? 

Answer. As far as I have heard them express themselves, they say that every man 
that abides it has surrendered all the rights of a freeman, and be is not fit to live any 
longer, and no government is fit to live that will swallow it. 

Question. Do I understand you to say that the democratic party in Blount County 
are still opposed to the negro voting f 

Ansu^er. Yes, sir, you do understand me so. 

Question. Are they bitterly opiK>sed to it T 

Answer. So much so, that I don't think, from the last election, there has been a col- 
ored vote given in the county, only some negroes among them they have got to vote 
the democratic ticket. 

Question. Why do not the negroes vote in Blount County f 

Answer. All the negroes I have asked for the reason why they didn't vote, said they 
had been warned that they had better not go to the election. Well, some negroes have 
been whipped there, and so on, and run ofL ^ 


- QuetAn. Wa« it because of intimidation that they did not vofce f 
Awwtr, They are afraid they will be shot, and they are certain they will be whipped, 

if tbey will go there and don't vote the democratic ticket. 
Q^taUon, Are the democrats of Blount Connty opposed to the edncation of negroes f 
Aimoer, Invariably ; so far as I am acquainted they are. 

Ovation, Do you know of any negro school having been established and maintained 
in Blount County f 
Amwer, Only one, and that was under very peculiar circumstances. 
Question, How long was that maintained f 

AimDcr, I am unprepared to say^ but only a few months. It was of short duration. 
QuaiMn, Would it be considered safe for any man or woman to attempt to teach a 
negFo school in that connty f 

Answer, I have stood evorythinff else that came at me, but you couldn't hire me for 
aoyuQonnt of money to undertime it on my own hook. I don't know how others 
wooM do ; some people would grab at money, but money wouldn't make me under- 
take that there. 

(jut^uon. You have heard of this " new departure " movement of the democratic 
^rty in the North. What are the sentiments of the democratic party of Blount 
Ooanty in respect to that movement t 

iMteer. I think the sentiment is sort o' tangled or run out; when you get to that. 
Yon can't get any sense out of them about it. 

Qmtiwk, Why ; do they not understand it f 

Antwer, Yon can't make thom. 

tfrn^iMi. Does it seem to them like going back upon their old doctrines— old senti- 

Answer, They are afraid it will throw a little help OTer to the radicals; and they 
vaut to hear from headquarters before they go any further into it. - 

Qwttion, Do the^ stUl talk up there about the reconstruction measures being ^'revo- 
lationary, unconstitutional; and void f ' 

•^Miwr. Yes^ sir ; and whenever they get up a constitutional Congress, they are going 
^ upset all these things and begin anew. ' 

Qvestioii. Did you ever hear them call the Congress that enacted these measures a 
"ramp Congress f 

Ansvcer. Yea, sir. 

QuaHon. Is that a common name f 

Answer. Yes, sir, the " rump Congress." 

Quesfioii. They dont believe that any of the laws enacted by that Congress before 
tbeae States were admitted were constitutional or valid? 

Answer, No, sir. 

HuNTSvnxK; ALABAMA; October 11^ 1871. 

ISAAC MABION BERRY sworn and examined. 
By the Chaibmak : 

QmtHoH, BtiKte your age and plaoe of residence. 

Answer, 1 am near forty years old. I will be forty the last of next month. I reside 
in mount County, Alabama. 

QnesHon, How long have you lived in Blount County? 

Answer, Have been living near the line of Blount and Marshall Counties. I was 
bom in Blount. I wa& raised principally in that county. 

itneeUon, Have you lived in that county most of the time since the war? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qii«iMoii. Were you in the Army during the war? 9 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Qicslibft. In which army ? 

Answer, I was for five or six months in the rebel army. I went out under the con- 
scription and staid about six months, and then went al>out two years in the Federal 
Anny in this place. It was between one and two years — nearer one than two. 

Qnestion, Are ^ou known as a Union man in Blount County? 

Answer. Ye8,8ur. 

QnestUm. State whether the Union men, white and black, in that connty have beeu 
•ob^eted to any persecntions since the war. 

Mswer» There nave been a great many outrages in that country upon loyal char- 

Qnestum. What kind of outrages ? 

Jmrner, Qenerally from disguised characters. • * Jp 

QisesHtm, About what time did these bauds of disguised men first make tj^m 
appeacanee in Blount County ? 

49 A 


Anstoer, About the time of the presidential election, when Mr. Blair, and Mrl Gimnt, 
and tiiose ran. 

Question, You think they sprang np abont that timef 

Jfuwer. Yes, sir. 

Qjuestum, Have you any means of knowing how nnmerons the organiEation was in 
that county f 

Answer, No, sir; I have no idea how numerous it was. 

Question, Have you ever seen any of those bands f 

Answer, I have never seen any disguised. 

By Mr. Buckley: 

Question, Are there none in that portion of the county f 

Anmoer, Not immediately where I live. I lire in the mountains. They sa^ in 
appearance, each side of me. Here of late they have been existing in Brown's VaUey 
and about BlountsviUe. From Guntersville to Blooatsville, in thoae valleys, they 
have been raiding. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, You live near the line of the county t 

Answer, Yes, sir. ^ 

Question, About how far from BlountsviUe f 

Answer, 1 1'eckon it is about twenty miles from where I live to BlountsviUe. 

Question, Do you often go to BlountsviUe f 

Answer, Not very often; I took the oensoa last year in Blount County— the anbdi- 
vision there. 

Question, Have these bands of disguised men been kept up in the county sinoe the 
fall of 1868 to the present time f 

Answer, They appear to be existing in there yet, more or less. 

Question, Do you hear of any outrages committed by them f 

Answer, Yes, sir; frequently. 

Question, What outrages have you heard of committed by them sinoe last qmng — 
■ay since April f 

Answer, Old Uncle Tom Nation told me they raided on him. 

Question, How was he treated f 

Answer. He apparently was treated very shamefully. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, Was he a white man f 
Answer, Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, What did they do to him f 

Anewer, 1 don't know that I could state altogether what they did do to him, but any 
way one cut him on his back. He told me tbey went there and drove around and cat 
up around, and eventually took him <^t. One took him up on his back and the otber 
went behind and drew a large stick and set on him as if he were going to knock him 
off of the other one's back. Ho said he saw the Uc^ was coming, but .uie fellow made 
his lick^ and as well as I recolieot, he didn't hit him, or didn't aim to. I think the old 
man said he saw after the follow struck that he didn't aim to hit him, and, as well aa I 
recollect, he looked for another to shoot him about the same time that this Uck was 
given. They carried him down to a field, and his wife followed on crying. They 
threatened him and cursed him, and at last turned him loose. I don't remember the 

Question, Were these men in disguise f 

Answer, YesLsir. 

Question, What did they chaife him with T 

Answer, They had been there, I think twice, he told me. One time — I don't know 
whether it was the last time or the first one — ^he had had a certain renter on his farm 
tending his land, and in the settlement some way the renter was not satisfied, bnt 
thought he ought to have a little more, and they came and forced the money out of 
him and made nim pay it over. Then they were back there again correcting some little 
negroes he is raisins— little colored girls. I tiiink he said they whipped tSem. I will 
not be sure, but I tnink he said so. 

Question, For what offense ^ 

Answer, Nothing more than because 'the old man. from what I have found out, sufiTered 
ihem to come to the table, and eat at the table wnere he ate. There are none bat tha 
old man and his wife. 

j^iMtttott. Old man Nation f 

Answer. Mr. Tom Nation. Digitized by GoOQIc 

Question, He is a white man and those were negroes raised by him T ^ 

Answer, Yes, sir, raised by him. 

ALABAlU**-SlEFK-001fimTBi:. 771 

Quftkn. Ib he a loyal mani 

Ansver, Yes, sir. He was not in time of the war ; I think he was not. I leaUy 
didn't know rnnch abont him then, whether he was Union or loyal ; bat sinoe the ivar 
be has been a very strong republican, very. 

Ovation, 1b he obnoxions on that acconnt np there f 

JiMtrer. He seems to be. 

QuettUm, Statoany other recent oecnironee that yon know of. 

Angwer, Well, some two or three have occnired-^eyeral, I ezpeot, if I could think of 

Quegtion, Take your time. Have they been very numerous f 

Answer, They are so often that I hardly pay any attention to them. I live away out 
and probably it is a week or two before I hear of them, and they get somewhat old he- 
lore that time. I learned that they raided James Wooden's boose in BlountsviUe. 

Qaatkn, Was he a white man f 

A»8war, Yes, sir ; a merchant in Blountsville. 

Questum, When was he raided f 

Anttcer, Some time this summer. It was only reported to me. 

QtieBiion, What were the particulars as jrou undeistood th^n f 

Axswer, He had some colored people hired there. They didn't abuse him any per- 
Bonallj himself, but they went there and raised a row with his ccribcHced people, I think, 
and nm them off, if I am not mistaken now. 

Qnettkm, What was the offense of the colored people f 

Answer, I didn't learn. 

QwttUMi, But you understood that they were run off f 

Answer, That was my understanding, that they were run off. 

Qwstkm, State any other cases that yon know of. 

Answer. I learned it was about this way : They had gone there and made a raid on 
lum, and it seemed they had incurred the displeasure of the Ku-Klux, or something of 
tiiftt sort, and they went there a night or two afterwards and told him he should not be 
outraged any more, and so on. It seemed he had friends who were disguisers, or some 
of them, and they came and told him he should not be outraged. One day they 
visited the colored people, and the next time they came to console with him, appar- 

QtoHon. Were the colored people returned to him f 

AMswer, I do not know. 

QitesUon, State any other cases you know of. 

Answer, I only heard of this Mr. Horton that was here, tiiat was ontrMed ; I heard 
piity&c. Here this summer there was one Mrs. Bussell outranged. I think her aon- 
^hm told me it was last May that she was outraged. 

Qn€sUon, What were the p^urticulars of that case f 

Jjuttier. Three men went there and knocked her door down, and went in. I d«nt 
hww.whether they particularly abused the old lady, but any way they incurred her 
uupleasoro by treating her so badly, and she knew them. One of them is in Blouate^ 
^ jail now: the other is Mug in the woods, a fugitive. 

Qmiion, What was her offense f 

Answer. I never learned. 

QuatUm, Were these raids generally made in the night-time f 

Answer, Tes,8ir. 

QnesUon, Were the raiders armed, as you understood f 

Answer. Tes, sir, that is my understanding ; they generally go that way. 

Qfiestion, Were the horses disguised f 

Answer. Those were footmen, I think ; I know the men ; that is, these oharaoteTS I 
fP^ of now don't own any horses ; they are foot-fellows geamlly, imd have sk> 
^nestion. State any other occurrences that have £Edlen under your knowledge of this 


Answer. There was an outrage made upon a young girl dofwn Idiere near the Red Hill, 
M Haishall County, near the line of Blount County. 

QnesUon, What was her name t 

Answer. I cannot call it lib mind now. 

Qnsslion. Give the circumstances. 

AnsiKT, They went there, as I learned, and abused her very bad ; whipped her very 

QMrfum. Forwbatf 

'tever. I didn't learn any cause ; nothing more than some boys around there had 
hem nmning around her, and she had tola some tales on them, and they flogged her 
oat for it. They said that she had tpld some tales on some young men around in the 
c<mntry there that they didn't like : and that is why ^e was whipped. . , Clonals 

««»«o«. Was she a Secent girl f ^^'^ ^^ V^UU^ le 

Answer. I drat know ; I hear bad talk about her. 


Question, Did they visit her in the night-time T • 

Answer. Yes, sir, in the night-time. 

Question, How many f 

Ansvfer, I Aon^t know that I inqaired into the number; but as well as I reoollocty 
seemingly abont five or six. 

Question. Were thev disguised f 

An^er, Tes, sir ; that was my understanding^ that they were disgiiised. 

Question. They took her out and whipped her badly f 

Answer. I don't know as they took her out. She was whipped in the house. Her 
mother was working at a neighbor's house. She was alone by nerself with the littlo 

Question. Do any other cases occur to you f 

Answer. How far back did you say you wanted me to go t 

Question, I will not limit you. Yon may go back and state any occurrences that 
have happened in Blount or the neighboring counties. 

Anstver. One instance is of a case this fall two years ago. They have been very 
numerous. I don't know whether I can recollect them all or liot. There was one fellow 
named Thomas Pointer who was run off. He was not whipped ; they could not get 
hold of him ; that was the reason, I reckon. 

Question, What was his offense f 

Answer. He had been up here to the United States court as a grand juror, and they 
had imaged there, as near as I can find out, that he was accessory to getting some 
bills against them here in court for illicit distilling. 

Question. Who ran him off f 

Anstoer. Disguisers — I don't know who ; disguised characters. 

Question. Has he never returned f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. His only offense was that he had been a grand juror f 

Antnver. And he had belonged in time to the Fedom Army. That is all I could leam ; 
there was nothing else obnoxious. 

Question. Do they raid upon people in Blount County for having served their coun- 
try in the Federal Army f 

Answer. Well, it is this way sorter : they want to keep that part of it hid as mueh 
as possible^ that they are doing it for that ; but I see that they don't like a man who 
served in the Federal Army unless he joins them and is one of their sort ; t^en they 
like him pretty well. 

Question. By what epithets do they caQ such men f 

Answer. Yon wiU have to speak again to me. Wlkat was that f 

Question. By what epithets or names do they call those men who have served in the 
Federal Army f 

Answer, They call them tones and such like— those that were living there and served 
in the Federtd Army. They generally call them tories; and look upon them as low- 
down characters. 

Question. It is a mark of diBgraoe with them to have served in the Union Army t 

Answer. Yes, sir ; especially with these disguised Elans. 

Question. Yon have mentioned Thomas Pointer's case. Will you mention any 
others f 

Answer. There is one James Austin who was outraged. 

Question, What was done to him T 

Answer. I don't know. Some say they stuck it out themselves around that they whipped 
him ; but he denied it. I don't know whether they abused him or not. , They say tney 
whipped him, from what I could find «ut. They put that rumor out among the citizens, 
that they whipped him. 

By Mr. Blair : 
Question. Whipped who f 
Answer. Whipped Mr. Austin ; but he denies it. , 

By Mr. Rice : 
Question. What does he say they did t 
Answer. He Said they didn't do anything to him. • 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Does he admit that they visited himf 
Answer- He admits it. Here is the way of it : He was at a woman's named Sina 

King, that he has been accused of ruining. He was there and they run in on him 

piereiy for visiting Sina King. 
Questian. Was she a loose woman ? C^ mr^n]o 

Answer. Bather a loose character, I think. Digitized by VjOO^LC 

Question. And he denies being whipped to save himself from that disgrace f 
Answer. He tries to deny being there any way. 


QmHitn. Do yon know of aay other cases t 

Auwer, ^ht reeently that same Sina Kin^ has been whipped by them, I learn. 

Question, Were the men who whipped her disguised f 

Juwr, Tes,Bir. 

(vesHon. How many whipped her f 

Answer, JSome five or six, it was my understanding. 

ByMr. BlaIb: 

(hesHon, Was she a radical f 

Answer, I don^t know what she 1$. She has not much politics, I reck<m ; women 
don't have much. 

Question, She is for Union, is she not f 

Answer, A Union woman f 

Question, Tes. 

Answer, I don't know. I will state the fact of that whole thing as I have sot it. 
This here Mrs. Russell living right near her, is her aunt Well, Mrs. Bussell thinks 
that this Sina King is the occasion of her beinjg outraged by these three, one of whom 
they have got in jail now for it. It appears that this Klan went on Mrs. Siua Kin^, 
beeaose she officiated in having Mrs. Kussell abused by disguised characters ; so it is 
dog cat dog among them. 

Question, Is Mrs. Russell a loose woman too f 

Answer, No, sir, I think not. She stands very fair among her neighbors as a peacea- 
^ quiet, harmless woman, living to herself She had only one daughter, and Ed. 
£aaBell married her. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. Did you ever hear of the Hortons being Ku-Kluxed f 
Answer, Tes, sir. 
Quesium, How many of them f 

Answer, Well, there is one, the old man there and his spn, that I learned had been 

By Mr. Blair : 
QMftiaii. Which one f 

Answer, He was in here before you. He came here. 
Question, Do jon know his name f 
Answer, 1 forget it. 
Question, Was it Bei^jaminf 
Answer. Basil is the name he goes by. 

By the Chairman: 

Qfiestion. The same one who was before us yesterday f 

Answer, Tes, sir. 

Question, Did you know a ^orton, a son of thd old gentleman, named James, who is 


Qiustion. Did you over hear of his being Ku-Klnxed f 

Answer, It seems to me that he was Ku-JJuxed, and that I learned that he was ; but 
1 will not be sure, ^ 

Question. Did you understand that he was whipped by them, and died not long after- 

Answer, I heard of his death and then I heard of his being whipped, but I never got 
«Jto the particulars of ii. 

Qitestion, He died while his father vAs a refugee out of the country, did he not f 

Answer, Tes, sir. 

Question. Did you know Murphy, the radical sheriff, who was killed in 1868 f 

Answer. In Blount County! 

Question. Tes, sir. 

Answer. There has been no man murdered of that name, that I know of I can't call 

Question. Who was the first sheriff appointed after your State was reorganized f 

Answer. O, yes, I recollect now well enough : Murphy was killed. I knew him well 
J mnember about his election. He was kiUed at Summit. 

Question. By whom t 

Answer. By one Mr. Russell. 

9^ei$on. Did you understand that he was killed on account of his politics f 

Answer. The controversy was about politics when he was killed, as I learn. I think 
[t was before the election ; I will not be sure — the presidential election ; it was some- 
ttmg^Kmt the election. ,,ed by GoOqIc 

yuettum. Can you recall any more instances now f '^ 

Answer. Well, I could go back in Morgan County and over there give instances. 


Question. Yon may do bo. 

Answer. The organkation firsi oame up and th^ laided on Judgtt Chadton. 

Question. When was that f 

Answer, That was aboat the time the organizatioD first grew up in Morgan C4MUity f 

Question. What did they do to him f 

Answer. They weift there and broke ^wn his door. I will not say that they did 
break down his door, bat they made an effort to do so. I am not sore, bat I think 
they did break it down. 

ByMr. BfTCKLsr: 

Question. Where was Jadge Charlton living then f * 

Answer. At Summerville, Morgan Coantv. 

Question. Go on and tell about it, if you have anything mope to say. 

Answer. They raided in on him there, bat they didn/t get hold of him. Oae Bob 
Gardner ran oat by them as they surrounded the house, and they shot at him, as I 
learned. Judge Charlton's son was in the room and shot at one of the Ku-Klnx out of 
the window, and fhffhtened them. He shot at one, and they said that he died, but I 
never ascertained. It has been reported that a Ko-Klux was killed there, but I do not 

By the Chairman: 

Question. What was the acousation against Judge Charlton t 

Answer. Apparently. Judffe Charlton told me, it was because he was taking the mMxed 
of ropublicau policy of the Government. He had been a democrat onoe early after the 
war, and things hadn't shaped themselves to snit him. That is just what he told me, 
that things coming up did not suit him and that reconstruction had taken place, and 
he was in favor of reconstruction and could not be in £etvor of it without being a 
republican, and was bound to abandon the democratic party ; that was the cause. 

Question. And this was the method they took to convert him f 

Answer. Tes, sir. He told me they were trying to bring him back into their ranks. 

Question. Give any other case in Morgan County that occurs to you. 

Answer. In Morean County it did not seem to exist very long. It seemed that the 
disguisers were rather disorganized and quit after that. 

[The committee took a recess a 1.30 p. m. of x>ne hour for dinner.} 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Since the recess, have you recalled any other' instances of outrage ppon 
Union men f 

Answer. I have thought of one or two. There are several more, if I could draw them 
to mind. There are a great many of thorn. There was an outrage committed ou an 
old colored man down at Summat X think hia name wm Jwk» 

Question. What was the nature of it t 

Answer. All I could learn about it wa» that he had sickness inhis family or something, 
and had a difficulty with the doctor there that Sectored his family. The doctor wanted 
him to pay, or something of that nature, and I don't know whether the old ooUnred 
man relused to pay him or not, bat probably he dadn't pay him as soon as he wanted, 
and this crowd went there and collected the doctor's biU &r him. 

QuyiUm. Were the men disguised that visited this colored man f 

AnSoer, That is what I learned. 

Qtiestion. Their object was to compel him to pay the doctor's bill f 

Answer, It seemed so. 

Question. What did they do with him f 

Answer. I don't know that they did anythingJiioce than to make him pay the bill. 

Question, How many visited him f 

Answer. I don't know what number. 

Question. Is that an ordinary method of collecting dues in Blount County f 

Answer. WeU, it is not often the case. There are some instances of it. They do it 
frequently, frequently, I would say. 

Question. Is there aay other instance you recall f 

Answer. Well, if you go away back to the time they first came in thero and- all, I 
don't know when I wouM get through, they would occur bo frecjueutly to my mind. 
Going away back, I would recollect a great many, and a great many 1 would not ttmik of. 

QMStion. From first to last, how many outrages do you think have beuu coBunittod 
by men in disguise upon peaceable citizens in that region f 

Answer. I have no idea ; there are so many I could not hardly guess. It has been so 
frequently the case ever unce they have been or^nized, that there has been sat eat- 
rage committed every week since they have been in existence in the coontry. 

Question. Would you think as many as one or two hundred cases have ocouired t 

Answer. I expect there have in my own knowJedge, if I coald think of them. 

JkhhBkMk — SUB-COMMITTEfi. 775 


Question, I see that Mr. Lakin states in his testimony, page 134, that there have been 
seveoty-one ontrafes in that ooonty within his knowledge and iuformation. 

Jmrner, I would suppose he was oorreot. They became so naraeioas I joat qait 
keeping accoont, and didnt pay attention or notice. 

Quei&m, Ton think thai many have been eonunitted f * 

Jmeer. Yes, sir, I think that mai^ haive been oommitted in Eloiuit County. 

By the Chairman : 

Quetthn, How many <^ the men concerned in oommittinff these outrages have eyer 
been broufdit to justice, so fiir as your knowledge extends T 

Anneer, In Blount County f 

QmUon, Yes, air. * 

Jmmer, There has never been any cme, so far as I have any knowledge of. 

Quatkm, Have no prosecutions been instituted f 

Amwot. Not unless there is one in jail now. That Is all the one I have ever known 
of bein^ pat in jail for outrages. 

Que8ti(m. Is that a late occnrrencef 

JjMwer, Yee, sir, right late. 

Quetiion, With that exception, there arc no other prosecutions that you have evev 

Awwtr. No, sir, none that I have l^eard of. There was an outrage committed upon 
Wd Ketoham that was in jail, and taken out and hung. 

QuesHon. What was his offense Y , 

Auwer, He had been accused of killing a man with a knife there in BlountsviUe. 
Ibat was my undrastanding. 

By Mr. Bucelet : 

Qiesfum. Was he taken out by dlsgrnsed menf 

Antwr, By disguised men. The disguised men went there the night before and 
^manded the key of the sheriff and he would not give it up, and they told him, as 
UtuJ can recollect, that they would be back the next night and he must be out of 
the way ; and the next night they went back and took him out and hung him. That 
» the way I learned it. 

By the Chairman : 

QuoHofL By what general name are these bands of disguised men who commit these 
ontpsges generally known T 

Antwer, They are generally known by the name of Ku-Elux. 

Qwttion. Have you any idea how strong they are in Blount County f 

Amwar, WeU, sir, I would suppose that every young fellow— now that is my imagi- 
oalion of it, not tiiat I know it— that every young fbl&w who is in fitvor of the rebel 
anae in the late rebellion 

•ByMr. BLaiit: 
Cuertum. Of what f ' 

AMtwer, Of the rebel cause in the lato rebellion in the contest with the United States, 
beloogs to that Klan, as well as I can find out. 

By the Chairman : % 

Qumtkm. Do the elderly p^pls approve or disapprove of these prooeedings f 
Antwer, Tliey did at the early organization of it, when it first came into organization. 
Qmtiim. Did what? 

Antwer, They approved it ; the older cues of what we call the secesh party. 
QuetUon, Has this organization been too strong lor the law to deal with it in your 
county t r 

Antwer, It has been so stronff, apparently, that the law has not dealt with it. 1 
bftve talked with the ofi^ials ox the county, with the sheriff, and I have talked with 
tbt) justices of the peace about these things, and they have told me they are afraid to 
f:ieeate anything against disguised men. I have asked^them frequently why they 
dou^ enforce the law, and they have told me they were afraid; even afraid to issue 
wiants. ^ 

Q^etlum, Do you think a grand or petit Jury could be empauueled in that county 
^nttuMit one or more Ku-Klux being on it ? 

Antwer. From the circumstances now, or the circumstances existing heretofore, I 
doi^ ttaak they eonld. Under the eireumstauoes existing heretofore I don't think 
QnettUm. What difference is there in the present circumstances f 
Anrnter, There is a committee, and it might have changed. /^ ^ ^ r^T ^ 

Qntaimm. What committee f Digitized by V^OO^LC 

-Antwer. The committee composed at Washington, and here this sub-committee. It 


has made a mighty change since that has been sitting. It has had its effoets oyer 
there already. 

Queation, Are they afiraid their misdeeds will be bnmght to light f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Are they looking for punishment f 

Answer, They are Moking for it, sir, as much as I can find out. ' 

Question, What do yon know of any churches or school-houses being burned by these 
disguised men f 

Answer. I really cannot sav that I know of any burned by di^nisers. I think there 
were two or three burned of what we call the loyal Methodist Church, the old Metb- 
Ddist Church. There were two or three burned, but I don't know whether it was by 
disguisers or not. They werp burned, and nobody knows who by. 

Question, What was the general supposition as to the men who burned themf 

Anstoer. It was generally supposed It was these Klaus that did it— one or two or 
three of them that did it ; that is the general supposition. 

Question, Are your free schools taught in these churches f 

Answer, Tes, sir, whenever there is any money in the treasury to pay teaebero ; 
sometimes they have little schools for two or three months. 

Question, Is there opposition to the establishment and maintenance of free schools in 
Blount County f 

Answer, Not that I know of; no opposition. 

Question, Why, then, were those churches burned! 

Answer, All the reason I could ever assign was because they were composed of loyal 
characters to the Government — ^those that belonged to it. 

Question, Are there any colored schools in your county f 

Answer, There is not one in my county that I know of. There may be some in 
Blount County that I do not know of. 

Question, Do you think a colored school could be maintained in Blount County T 

Answer, It would be very doubtful. It would be owing to what portion of the 
county it was located in. In some portions of the county it would get on very well ; 
in others it would be broken up, I suppose. 

By Mr. Blaib : 
Question, Have any been broken up f 

Answer, There has not been any tried to be organized to my knowledge, no colored 
schools that I know of; there may be some. 

By the Chaibman : 

Question, What is the general sentiment in your county as to the education of the 
colored people f 

Answir, Well, the sentiment is not, generally speaking, in f^vor of educating them. 
By one party it is, but by the other it is not. 

Question, Which party favors the education of the colored people f 

Ansv}er, The republican party favors that, and a portion of the demooraqy does ; but 
generally speaking the democracy don't. 

Question, What objection do they make to their education f 

Anstoer, About all I know is that the negroes are a fit subject for slaves, and that is 
all thjir ought to be, and to teach him you couldn't make nothing out of the negro. 
That 18 about all the reason I could hear assigned. 

Question, Are the democrats of your county in fitvor of the fifteenth amendment, 
making the negroes voters f 

Answer. No, sir; I never heard one say he was. I have talked with a great many 
of them. 

Question, Are they in favor of getting rid of that amendment if they can f 

Answer, O, yes, sir ; yes, sir. 

Question, Are they in favor of the negro exercising t&e rights and privileges of tbo 
wMte race f 

Ansu>er, No, Sir ; they ar^not in favor of it. 

Question, Are they in flavor of the negroes testifying in courts of Justice or sitting 
upon juries t 

Answer, 1 never heard one say that he was. 

Question, Have you heard them say they were opposed to thatf 

Answer, O, yes, sir ; frequently it is the case. 

Question, Is that generally the case f 

Answer, It is generally the case where you have a conversation with l^em upon polit- 
ical matters any way, that they bring the negro upon you—they do with me wnen I 
converse with them — and his ignorance, and ail those things. % 

Question, Are the democrats of that county in favor of re-enslaving the negroes T 

Answer, 1 have not heard it. since the rebellion. I don't know that I have heard tliem 
make that expression that they are in favor of that. 


Que^imi, 1b there any demociaMo paper published in yonr county f 

Annoer, No, sir ; nor of any kind. 

Question, What papers are generally taken there by the democrats? 

AMwer, I really don't know ; thev take different papers. I reckon they take demo- 
cratic papers — a democrat does. I know there is none, to my knowledge, at my office. 
I know or one that takes Figures' fsager, that lives out there. I take Figares' paper 
myself, and I know one democrat that takes it. I generally find some democrat read- 
ing my paper there when I go to get it. 

ifuemon. Are newspapers, as a general thing, taken and read in that county t 

Annder, Tee, sir ; tney gcoierally take papers, all that want to. 

Qneetion, Do the democratic papers of the State, as far as your knowledge extends, 
^Fs accounts of those outrages committed by men in disgrnsef 

Answer. I don't know. I naive not read them no. great deal. My eyes have f»een sore 
foT a long time, so that I can't see more than to read Figures' paper here once a week. 
I never read of it, and never hear the democrats speak or talk about any outrages 
committed. I can read of things in my paper, and then go about the neighborhood 
sad not hear them speak about them. 

Question. Do you think it is their policy to prevent such news getting abroad t 

Ansmar, It has that bearing. I have thougnt so, that they would rather that would 
not be circulated around. 

Question, Where men have been whipp^, have they not generally been told that if 
thev reported it they would be whipped again f 

Answer, Tes, sir, that is frequently the case. When the^ abuse them they toll them 
to keep that to themselves, and that if they tell it they will abuse them again. 

By Mr B0CKLEt : 

Question. From what you know of Blount County, do you think a republican would 
be safe in publicly advocating his cause in that county f 
Answer, It would be pretty much owing to who he was. 

By the Chairmax; 

Question, What do yon mean by that f 

Answer. There are a great many men, and different circumstances, you know. If a 
man was a wealthy man, a property man, with a heap of Mends about, he could ppeak 
▼hat he thought. 

Question. Suppose a republican &om an adjoining county, or some other part of the 
8ute^ a stranger to your county, should go there to make a republican speecn, could he 

Answer. O, yes ; he would be protected by us. I believe he would now. The time 
has been when I think it would have been very critical for him to do it I believe he 
would be permitted now to do so. * 

By^ Mr. Buckley: 

Qnsstion. Have you ever known white men to abstain from voting from fear or intim- 
imon, or to avoid the notice of these Klans f 

Answer. I believe I have. 

QuesUon. They would keep away fron^ the polls f 

Answer. They would keep away from fear of outrage being made on them at some 
time. They thought the thmg would come up and they would nave to suffer friun it. I 
think a great many have staid away from the polls on that account. 

Question. Are you speaking of republican white men f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. You spoke of some men on the grand Jury from your part of Blount County, 
^^nat grand jury T 

Answer. The grand jury here at this place. 

Question. When f 

Answer, In November, 1869. 

Question. Were you a member of that grand jury T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Do you know whether any attempt was made to indict those parties com- 
mitting outrages at that time f 

Answer. Yes, sir, there was an attempt made under the civil rights bill, as we thought, 
mider the charge of the judge. 

QuesHon. How many indictments were found during that session of the grand jury 
of which you were a member. 

Answer. I really cannot say how many but it was a good many — ^twenty-five or 
thirty probably. I expect there were that many bills found. 

Question, Was Judge Charlton a foreman of that jury f (^ r^r^n]r> 

Answer, Yes, sir, he was the foreman. Digitized by VjOOQ Ic 

QuesHon. He was since killed, was he not ? 


Aniwcr, Yes, sir : at Decatur. 

Question, Yoa told the committee, I believe, that there were not msaxy Ka-Elux in 
your portion of the county, the mountain portion t 

Answer. Yes. sir. In Morgan Counter, next to me there are. Between me and Sum- 
merville I don't think there is any raiding in there; I dont think there is any in there ; 
I have not heard of it. 

Question, Have you, citizens of your part of Blount and of Morgan eounty, ever 
taken any st-eps to prevent raids being made through there f 

Answer, Yes, sir; they have an organization mode against the Eu-Elnx— in opposi- 
tion to them. 

Question, Who composed that f 

Answer, Loyal men— men ror the Government— what we term Union men. 

Question, What did you do f 

Answer, I will Just state that all through and through, if yoa will be patient, all of 

Question. Sfcate it in your own way. 

Answer, There was an organization of what we call the anti-Ku-Klox. There were 
Ku-Klux and anti-Ku-Kluz. The Eu-Klux run in on Judge Charlton, as I have told 
you. I think I told you what for, probably, and he came out to my house, knowing I 
had a sood deal of iimuence, or thinking so, anyway, with the Union boys who belonged 
to the Federal Army, and all who held that way. He came out there and told mo nis 
circumstances and how he was fixed; that these disguises had been on him, and all 
these things, mid had nm him off, and were going to kill him, Ac, and he sngeested 
the idea to me to organize against them, to get up an organization against them. \Vel], 
I put him off ; as he had formerly belonged to the rebel sloe, the other sidc^ the democracy, 
I didn't know but what he was coming out to play some trick on me. I live in the moun- 
tains. He went off. I told him to come back again ; that I would study on it. He came 
back, and we agreed, I and him, that we would get up an organization for our self-defense 
and all of our sort that would join it, and to protect all eood, loyal, peaceable citizens who 
would behave themselves, &o., against the Elan. We Went to work and did* so. . We 
had regular meetings in the day-time in Blount County ; we organized, &c, I don't 
remember now how many men we organized. He had a ^^ood many organized men over 
in his county and I in mine. We got a considerable organization up, probably a hundred 

men, in Blount County. Well, he got good men in nis. AH that 'time tSe Eu-Klnx 
was riding ; they would send him in notices ; the chief Cyclops, Ac, would write him 
letters, and ^1 these things. I suppose his wife has the letters now that he received 
from them. He read them to me, from the Magi written, to him. I saw the letters : 
they kept outraging and threatening him. They came out on the monntain where 1 
lived, and whipped a man there near me. That is another case I missed. It is witbin 
a^nt three miles of me. There they whipped a neighbor of mine. The threat was 
hung out; the neighbors in favor of the En-Klux around there would come and tell me 
they feared I was in danger and I would have to get flEurther ; they would brag about it, 
and all these things ; that I had had the day Ions enough ; that I had been in the Federal 
sovioe and oome out conqueror, and all these things, and that I had been organizing the 
Union League, &c., in there, and taking the day, and I would have to get farther. Irom 
that I got our organization up, and .Judge Charlton came ont to my house and safr. 
gested to me that we should make a raid on them. Xbere was in Charlton's orfi;aniza.- 
tioa Robert Gktrdner and his nephew, Polk Mackinear,and Samnel Francis, and, I think, 
a few more that Charlton organized. He drew them out of the Eu-Elux Elan, a En- 
Elux organization, into his organization, and there they revealed the whole organiza- 
tion to Judffo Charlton. Then we knew who were Eu-Klux in Morgan County, and we 
knew exacuy who to go to, from their report. One night we met at the Mnk of the 
BouAtaiA. about forty of us, I think, mounted, and went to these Eu-Elux fellows, 
young follows, and called them ont, and if they were not at home, we called tbeir 
parents ont, and told them that they were Eu-Elnx and their sons were Eu-Elux, and 
they had been going over the country harassing the country, whipping and abusing 
the people, and all these things ; and that the quiet, peaceable citizens wanted to live 
in peace with everybody. I headed the command myself and did the talking to them 
mysel£ I told them I wanted them to quit it, and they had to do it, or if they kept it 
uf and lode any more in that country *upon loyal people, or anybody who was good 
citizens, they would hear from us : we would not bear it ; we knew they weregoing to 
outrage us, and take the country by storm, and we didn't intend to suffer it. Wo went 
down to Summervilie, and called out some even in Summerville, twenty-live miles firom 
where I lived, and disbanded and came back home. I think the next Saturday night 
we went up in the upper region in this direction in Moigan County, and there told some 
more. A Eu-Elux Cyclops, we called him ont and told him that he must stay at home 
and not war on the people any moce^ and we must have peace ; and if he undertook to 
carry out his Eu-Eluxing, that he might look for a storm to come on him. By this means 
we gave them a scare in Morgan County next to me, and the next day they gathered 
apparently, and signed up a petition to us that they would disband and not go in dia* 


gnise &ny more If we would let them alone. We accepted it, and teld them we would 
not interrnpt them any m<»e if they woaki quit. That is all we asked, to let us alone 
and let everybody else alone : be all boblshelly fellows— that is a kind of by- word — 
and all get along right. We did so, aad there lias been no di^^ising in tkere stnc»' 

By the Chairman : 
Question, About how long aflo was this f 
Anavoer, It has been this fautwo years ago. 


QwestUm. The Kn-Klia had been riding through the coontry then fbr years t/ 

Aitmoer, Tee, sir. 

Quatiom, Was year organization an open one T 

Aww^. Yes, sir, anybody could know it that wanted to. 

Quntum, Ton put on bo disgnisesT 

Answer. No, sir, no disguises. 

QmsHtni, Ton Just rode azound and notified those people that you wanted peace f 

Answer, Tee> sir. 

Qnsstkm, Did you receiye a large petition T 

Answer, A very large one. Judge Charlton kept it, and I suppose his wife has it 
7ei # 

Quesikm. Since then yoa ksve had no riding of Ku-Klux in your portion of Blount 
CMBty or in Morgan f 

Anssser, No, sir. 

Qnestien, It was after this some little time that Judge Charlton was killed T 

Answer. Yes, sir; he was killed at Decatur awhile aiter he was foreman of the United 
States grand jury at this plaee* 

By Mr. Blaib : 
QnesUo^, Who killed Judge Chadton f 
Anewer, Well, sir, I don't know. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. Was he killed in the night-time t 

Answer. Yea, sir, in thenighl^ going ftom the railroad depot to Captain Hines's place. 
Question. In Decatur? 
Answer. Yee, sir. 

By Mr. BiCB : 
Question, Was he a State senator at the time t 

Answer. He had formerly been judge of probate. He didn't hold any position at that 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Qaestion. He was a man of considerable distinction in Morgan County, was he not 7 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. A very popular man ? 

Answer. Yes, sir, a very popular man. and beliked by almost everybody. He Was the 
thid man in the democracy be^cHre he ViaiA it^ and seemed to be loved by everybody ; 
tbey seemed to all like him. 

Question, Through this ^hole part of the State I 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

By the Chairmak : 

Question, What is the fact as to negroes having been disarmed through your part of 
the countiyt 

Answer. They have had their guns and arms taken and broken up ; I have noticed 
some instances of that. 

Question, Was that done by these n^en in disguise ? 

Answer, Yes, sir, generally by disgnisers j altogether, as far as I know j disguisers 
neqaently do that. 

Question, Have they been treated fairly, as to their wages, where they have worked 
w white men f 

4n8wer, Well, as far as I know, they have. I don't know of any colored man in my 
coontry over there that is making «iy property in any way, or gaining much. I would 
"nagine his wages was very short, and his income was very scarce. They generally 
»e apparently prostrated down and impoverished. They generally seem to be so. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
^Mtioa. I vndentand yoa to day it was in November, 1869, that you were a member 
<»t the grand jnsyf _ 


Aiiawer. Yes, sir, I think it was ia that month. 

Question, Judj][e Charlton was foreman of that grand jnry t 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Questum. Was he quite active in bringing criminals to punishment f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; quite active. 

Question. A large number of witnesses were summoned before that grand jury T 

Answer. Agreat many were. 

Question. Was it soon after that grand jury that Judge Charlton was killed T 

Answer. Yes, sir; soon afterward; he had gone down from here to Decatur. Atnighi, 
when he went to leave, I and him had an idea that they would take us behind the 
bush in that way and assassinate us. I believed they would .try to do so. I talked 
with him, and advised him to go down on the freight train, he and Mr. Oardner, who 
had been up here as a witness. 

Question. This same Mr. Gardner who had left the Eu-Elux and Joined the anti-En- 
Klux organization f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; he was here as a witness, and was going down to Decatur with the 
Jud^e. I went and begged him not to go down on the regular train, but to go down 
on uie freight train. Ibelieved that was a bad place, and if they had any idea of as- 
sassinating him, that would be the place they would do it. He did it ; he went down 
on the freight train, and ^ei^ on home. The reason I believed something was upwae, 
Mr. Wells, who had formerly had a difficulty with Mr. Gardner, at Decatur, and shot 
him, had tried to shoot Mr. Gardner as he came on up here. We rather drew the idea 
that they were making preparations down there for assassination or something else, 
and I advised them to go down on. the freight train, and they went down on it. 

QuesUon. Did the freight train arrive at Decatur in the day. or night time f 

Answer. In the night-time ; he took that to screen him from what he thought might 
arise ; that if they were looking for him to assassinate him, they would not Took upon 
that train for him. 

Question. How long after that time was it that the judse was killed f 

Answer. Then he went home, maybe three or four weeks, and he went to Louisville, 
to lay in some goods, and as he came down on the regular train he was assassinated. 

By the Chairman : 
Question, Was it generally supposed that he was assassinated by the Ku-Kluz t 
Answer. Yes, sir ; by that party, the Ku-Elux party ; that is supposed. 

HuNTSViLLE, Alabama, Octoier 11, 1871. 
NICHOLAS DAVIS sworn and examined. 

The Chairman. As this witness was summoned at the instance of the minority, 
General Blair may proceed with Mr. Davis's examination. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question. Will you please tell the committee how long you have lived here, and the 
profession you follow t 

Answer. I was bom in this State, in limestone County; I have lived here for forty- 
five years. 

Question. What profession have you followed? 

Answer. I am a Lawyer, sir. 

Question. Have you practiced law in and around the neighborhood of this city for 
any length of time f 

Answer. For the last fifteen years. 

Question. State, if you please, Mr. Davis, what are your political relations. 

Ansu>er. My first political relations were those of a whig ; in 1854 I was a Henry Clay 

Question. I speak more in reference to the present attitude of affairs, Mr. Davis. 

Answer. In 1851 1 was a whig; in 1861 1 was a Donclas man, opposed to secession. 
I wi^ you gentlemen would direct your questions so that it would make it all appear. 

Question. Well, sir, I will be very glad to have you state, generally, what parties you 
have affiliated with, and what party yon now affiliate with. 

Answer, I have always been associated with the republican party. 

QuesUon. Since the war f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; since the war. 

Question. You are in favor of the reconstruction policy of the Government f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I haVe been in favor of the recoilstruction poliey of the Govern- 
ment from the time of Lee and Johnson's surrender up to the present time. 

Qucsti4>n. Well, sir, this committee, as you know, is charged with the duty of inquir- 


log into the condifcion of the coontrj at present, and I wish yon to state to the 
eommittoe, as briefly as possible, wiiat yon consider the present condition of affairs in 
this part of the State. 

Anticer, At present, I can only state it, to state it ftdrly, by stating what it has been. 

QuesHotL Well, sir, take yonr own method of statement. 

AMver* In 1868, 1 think that the oondition of this country was exceedingly wrong, 
and there was an organization here that was called the Kn-Klux organization ; that 
was, in my opinion, a very bad organization. Since then, I think, public sentiment 
hu tiierl to correct itself, and now, that it is all right ; they are trying their very best 
to establish law and order in this community. That has been wrought by the legisla- 
tioQ of Congress, and bj several other thines that you gentlemen must examine me 
iMzeafter about. In 1868, there was a Kn-Klux organization in the State of Alabama, 
a wrong—you will allow me to express my opinion — a wrons and a very bad organi- 
zation, provoked, thou^ by something, which, I suppose, will be afterward brought 
out— a very bad organization, but it corrected itself. Its very outrages corrected it. 
Since then— sloGe 1^68— traveling alons until 1869, they have changed their minds, and 
what you eall the democratic party — wnich means tho white people of this country — 
the white people of this coun^ have determined to put that down, to establish law 
and order, and, at the present time, I don't think that any man would be safe in any 
part of North Alabama in daring to put on the vile Ku-Klux organization or its image. 
That ia what I think, and what I say, and what I know to be the truth. 

Question. You say, that although this organization was a very improper one, it was 
provoked by the action or conduct of other parties. In what consisted that provoca- 
tion, Mr. Davis t 

Antwer. I think it was provoked — ^while I will not say that the provocation was ade- 
qoate— at the same time I think it was provoked ; there were secret meetings held, by 
what was called the Loyal League — a parcel of negroes and a parcel of men that came 
here £rom the North ; not gentlemen ; uneducated, low-flung, and mean men, that 

grompted them, that went into secret ors^anizations with them ; they provoked it in part ; 
Qt they did more than that, they provoked it publicly. It is impossible for any man, 
iH>w recurring to two years ago, to go further than to say this. Sir, the officer that is 
below you here took a carpet-bag — we had a way of saying about the^ fellows that 
oppressed us that they were " cafpet-bagsers ; " it has ^ot to be a name that is national, 
it is national — he went once here, right In front of this whole community, and put a 
' eaq)et-bag between his legs— the present probate judge that sits, Mr. Senator Pratt, 
that aits beneath us now — put a carpet<bag between his legs, and held it in front before 
the whole community. That was a provocation. I don't say it authorized what they 
did, because they did act outrageous, but the other side acted outrageous too. That is 
what he did, the present probate Judge. 

Question, Under what circumstances did he do that t 

Amkct. There was a man named Fnr^, an editor of a paper in Cincinnati, came here 
to make a speech, and made a speech in this court-room, and as a matter of course 
KHoebody had to reply to him. Judge Tate and myself were the men asked to reply 
to him. We went to reply to him, and the present probate Judae of this county took 
a carpet-bag and went and stuck it right in the face of the whole community, ri|;ht 
hetween his legs, and held it there — an insignia of an insult to the whole community, 
Md it took everything we could do to keep the community from getting after him. 
That was a provocation. I don't propose to justify the Ku-Klnx. I think it was an 
outrageous, foolish, miserable, and fool organization, but it has played out. 

Qv^fu^re. Was the probate judge himseu a carpet-bagger f 

Antwer, Yes, sir ; and he sits right beneath you now. 

Quefltofi. Do you suppose that his action was intended, sitting with that carpet-bag 
in front of the assembled people, to insult them t 

Answer, I would rather preier that the probate judge himself, being so close to you 
himself, might answer that question. He was not traveling anywhere ; he was not 
gom^ anywnere.; he took his carpet-bag and set it between his legs, and defied the 
pnbhc sentiment of this communi^ in 1868. While I want you to put down that 
carsfoUy, certainly that don't justi^ no Ku-Klux orjg^anization. I think that was an 
ootrageon& illegal, vile, and murderous organization. It has done played out and 
g^Ae, whicn everybody knows that has got any sense. • 

(imUon, Mr. Davis, how did this Judge Douslass become probate judge here t 

Answer, By the legislation of Congress ; by tne legislation of Confess. You under- 
stand, you members of Congress, th& we were told that we must either vote or keep 
•way from the polls, and we kept away from the polls, which I think was a verjr in- 
discreet and a very improper tniuff ; very improper. But it was done by Lewis E. 
Parsons ; he was the man that did that. We kept awagr from the polls. There would 
never have been any such men elected but for that. While I tell you that the present 
probate judge has done his duty as an officer since then— he has gone all through this 
oouity ; through its nooks and comers, and everything else— that carpet-bagger has 


done, tried to do, his duty ; and as an hoaeet man, and a aoathem man, I am boand to 
say that. 

Queatiofu You say he was not elected by the people of the coanty t 

Answer. No, sir ; he was imposed upon as by Congress, and then we hate him simply 
on that acconnt ; but because the feUow has done his doty sinoe, we sort 'o like mm 
because he is a better officer than we had before, even if he is a miserable stinking 
carpet-bagger, which we despise. 

Question. That does not give him any privilege though to insult thO'Comvunity t 

Answer. He admits himself that he aid take the carpet-bag and set it in front of ti>e 
democratic — no, sir, not a democratic^ for democratio means the white people of thia 
country — but he did do that, and the inference ouffht to be draini firom asking the pio- 
bate judffe ; from asking the probate judge. He did take a carpet-bag and eit there, 
while he Knew that these men were beiug-denounced for an imposition of that eort. 
He did do it, and he. pointed out but yesterday the place that ho sat it ; and even if 
the fellow has acted honestly afterward, (we must not do him tlie injustice to say he 
has been dishonest;) but he did that. I deny him everything in tho world except the 
mere fact of personal courage; that was a brave, iotamous, insulting, outnigeoua 
thing ; outrageous ; it was outrageons. 

Question. Do you know a man by the name of Shapard, from Bkmnt County t 

Answer. I do. 

Question. What is his character f 

Answer. Very bad. 

Question. In what respect f 

Answer. In every respect. 

QueetioH. Is he a truthful man t 

Answer. 1 wouldn't believe him on oa<h. 

Question. Do you know him well f 

Answer. No, sir, not very well : know he procures money upon false pretenses. 

Question. Do yon know any lact as to that f 

Answer. I do. 

Question. State what you know about that. 

Answer. I kfiow that upon one occasion, here in the town of Hunteville, that he repre- 
sented to General Burke that Colonel Davis owed him some money which Colonel Davis 
didn't owe him, founded upon the mere fact that I had told him I was going down in 
the country, and ho procured the fiye dollars from him upon an ntter and complete 
false pretense ; that he is utterly unworthy of belief in any sort of respect, and m no 
way to be trusted by anybody that is a gentleman, and I will swear to that. I left 
him out at the door just mo^. 

Question, 1 asked him the question this morning, and he stated here that that money 
was gifven to him by Colonel Burke, or loaned to him bv Burke, in consideratimi of 
services rendered in the political canvass in aid of Cdonei Burke's election. 

Answer. My answer to that is that he lied. He is in town in reach of this court, and 
brought into my presence he will not say but what he has lied. I wish that taken 
down Just exactly as it is stated. He lied when he said it. Colonel Burke owed him 
not a cent. 

Question. Was he under indictment in the county court of Blount for horse-stealini; T 

Answer, I really, sir, don't know anything about that. I understood by mere report 
that he was. 

Question. Did he not make an affidavit there in support of an application forthecon> 
tinuance of some case, alleging that jou were his counsel, in your absence t 

Answer. I only understood that from Colonel Lowe, who is a brother-in-law of mine — 
the solicitor, that he did— that4ie alleged that I was his counsel, which watt an untruth. 
He is utterly unworthy of belief upon any ground. He will admit that he procured 
that money, if brought here in my presence before this oommittee ; I just now left him ; 
that he is utterly unworthy of belief, utterly unworthy of belief with anybody aboat 
anything ; a miserable, mean wretch. 

Question. How long have you known him f 

Answer. Well, sir, I think as his first acquaintance was his introduction — really, he 
claimed acquaintance with me long before I knew him ; but I will state it perfectly 
accuprate— maybe I may have known him ten or fifteen years, but I only knew bim 
when he put that thing on Burke; when he procured money under false pretenaeSy here 
in this town. 

Question, He represented in his testimony here this morning that yon introdaoed hian 
to Burke. 

Answer. He is a liar ; I did not. 

Question. And that you recommended Burke to assist him. 

Answer. He is a liar. I wish my language to be taken down exactly as I ttato it. 
He is a liar. I never either introauoed him to Burke, nor had anything to do witb 
him. He is a miserable wretch. ^ 


Qfieribm. Has there been any such ^ing as Kn-Kliix, Mr. Davis, m this county, in 

file past two years T 
The WiTNBSS. Does this man ts^e down everything we say T Hold on ! don*t take 

down wiuit I say now. 
Mr Blair : He takes down everything thsft is said. 

TbeWrrNBSS: Well.' 

Qvofum. In the last two years has there heen anything here like Kn-Klox T 

Anmer. WeW, now, there have been men who imitated the Kn-Klnx. 

^es<um. For what purpose f 

Anmtr. To rob and thieve, withont any politics in it— rob and thieve. Since 1888, 
fljcre have been no Kn-Klnx in Madison Connty. I really think that it had its origin 
io Tennessee ; that it came here, and that they organized — now, to make a fair state- 
ment—that they organized here, and that even respectable men had something to do 
with it Soon niter they ibnnd out that that thing would not do— that it wonld not 
do—and they tnmed their faces against it ; and now I say that the white people of the 
State of Alabama — not meaning to designate the democratic party, but all of them— that 
tbe white people of the State of Alabama are opposed to the Ku-Klax j that they wonld 
kill them ; that no roan could ride through this town to-night ; not even. one of this 
committee, if he dared to put on the base Kn-Klux disguise, and dared to put on that 
white shirt, could mount his horse and ride through here with safety, because you would 
be killed. In Limestone you would be certain to be killed. The public sentiment of 
this connty is against i1<; Is against it. 

Quotum. Do you practice law, Mr. Davis^ in the mountain counties f 

Answer. Yes, sir; nowhere else. 

QuefiUm, Do you practice over in Blount County t 

Answer, No, sir : but in Limestone and in Madison. Unfortunate old Limestone, that 
has been involved in a heap of it — of all the devilment that could bo done. She has ; 
but then this is so. She turns one way and the other ; sometimes was Ku-Elnx f it 
might have been popular there in 1 868. Now I want this man to take my testimony down. 
While I was bom and raised there, I would be afraid to put a hat on my head that wad 
pot a, generally speaking, understood hat, and daro to pull ray shirt out and walk one foot 
in the connty I was born and raised in, where everybody loves me. nigger and white, be- 
^80 they would kill me like I was a mad dog. They despise tne loea of a Ku-Klux. 
Tbey have turned, and that ia right they should have turned. I wic^h to say particu- 
Jsriy about old Limestone, because I was born there. I say this, that I think it would 
be ihe most dangerous matter, and be in a connty tested by these very things which 
did most wrong, for Limestone did wrong ; she had tbe Ku-Elux there in 1868 ; she 
bas not got them now, and arming herself she will go too far. Instead of simply sup- 
porting the Federal officers, she will go too far. No man can dare to put on a di^uise 
ft Limestone Connty, l)ecanse these people are right and intend to do what is^Rght, 
ud no man would be safe to pull his shirt out of bis breeches and walk twenty steps 
in Limestone County. That is the truth, Senator Pratt. 

Cwrtwm. What was tbe origin of the Ku-Elux t 

Answer, The origin of it was this : they had this here Loyal League, and went around 
of nights and made speeches against southern people ; such men as Lakin and Callis, 
a&d Aat concern ; and then they proposed to get up something, and this fellow Jones, 
Bp at Polaski, got up a piece of Greek and originated it, and then General Forrest took 
bold of it, and got hold of a piece of norisense, and it was outrageous from beginning 
to end. All secret societies are outrageous. 

QnesthfL, Was the Union League a political association f 

Anwer. Tcsj, it was ; and they forbade me to speak here on this street. That would 
provoke it. TTiey forbid me to speak right in front of this court-house. When I asked 
them— being a republican — ^to allow me the liberty to speak, they refused to do it. 
They refascS Joe Bradley the privilege to speak, and then they provoked it afterward 
by tiiis. This man down here that is our probate Jnd^e, whom we tolerate — we* toler- 
«te him — we don't intend to elect him next time — it is not worth while to testify to 
that, because we don't intend to do it. I don't care how well he does — the fellow does 
dopfstty well — ^but he took a carpet-bag between his legs in a public meeting in this 
oout-hoose, before the white people of this county, and held up the insignia of ty- 
isn^ before the people. I counseled the x>eople, *^ £k> not pay any attention to him ; 
they will represent it in Congress that we are all trying to kill all these folks ; the 
iellow has nothing in the world but mere courage ; he is Just making an investment 
of his life upon that sort of thinff." Here he is, right below you here. 

QutAkm, Did you know Lakin 7 

Atmeer. Yes, sir. 

QnaUom. What was his character t 

Awmer. Mr. Lakin is a near neighbor of mine. I belierve that Mr. Lakin wns sent 
IksDS by tome rdigions society. You see I know him pretty welL You know he is a 
near neighbor of mine, and I am intimate with him. ^ 

QsMisfi. Liet us hear what yon know about him. 


Answer, He came here for the purpose, it seemed by his i>reach!Dg. to make conyerts 
to his own Church, hut the real truth about it was, Mr. Lakin wanted to get some office, 
and the first thing I knew, after he came heroi he was candidate for United States Sen- 
ator ; and then I said— to myself, you know — ^I didn't say to Lakin, but to myself-^*' Toa 
are just one of that sort of trash." The fact about his bein«^ a candidate for United 
States Senator is proven by Colonel Davis now stating that be published a card in the 
Montgomery papers in which he corrected a rumor whiol;, it seemed, somebody set 
afloat. Tou see he was not likely to be elected. Somebody had circulated the report that 
he had withdrawn, and he published a card, in which he stated that ''this man that 
. circulated that rumor that I am not likely to be elected^ or whoever done that, has done 
me ii^ustice ; I am still in the field a candidate for Umted States Senator." Set that 

Queatian, That was at the time Messrs. Warner and Spencer were elected 9 

Jnmoer, That was the time. Mr. Buckley, don't you know that to be the fact? 

Mr. Buckley. Tou are on the stand now. 

The Witness. But I ask you, don't you know that to be true that he was ? 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question, Did you ever hear him make a political speech T 

Answer, I have. 

Question, What was the character of the speech T 

Answer, The character of the speech was this : to teach the negroes that every man 
that was bom and raised in the southern country was their enemy ; that there was no 
use in trusting them, no matter what they said — ^if they said they were for the Union 
or anything else. ** No use in talking, they are your enemies;" And he made a pretty 
good speech too ; awful ; a hell of a one. 

Question, Was it an inflammatory speech T ' ^ 

Answer, Inflammatory and game, too: it was that ; it was enough to provoke the deviL 
It was enough to provoke the deviL I heard him make the speech. 

Question, Where did he make itf 

Answer. Right here in this town. 

Question, Who were his auditors f 

Answer, There were about four hundred negroes present ; A. W. &nith, and several 
other men here in town. I heard him make the speech. All the mischief he could 
intend, all that he could do mischievous, Mr. Lakin made in that speech. He piled it 

Question, He testified before this committee at Washington, and, among other state- 
ments, said he had never taken any part in politics. 

Answer. I am very sorry to have to contradict him. but if he 6aid that he told a lie. 
He toM a lie, and, Senator Pratt, I wish you would make a special note of that ; he told a 
lie. Fneard him make a speech ; he was trviuff to beat everything in the whole com- 
munity, and done left his religion, which he nas not got a bit of; that is the truth 
about it. He has not got a bit of it. He is an old ruffian . But this — I wish you to take 
a special note of that, that it is a lie, if he ever said that, and he wouldn't come &ce to 
face with me, and say he didn't make that speech. He was a candidate for United 
States Senator. Was not that politics T It is not unyankeo to answer one question by 
asking another, and I will ask you that, Senator Pratt t 

The Chairman. I am not sitting here to make responses to questions. 

The Witness. Besides, was not he trying to make himself president of the Alabama 
University, and didn't he afterward run for superintendent of education f Didn't be 
electioneer with me, the old heathen Chinee T He ought to be run out of this commu- 
nity ; that is the fact. But then this~you must excuse me, sir : I believe you to be an 
honest man. I tell you that old fellow is a hell of an old rascal. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question, Did you ever hear him speak on any other occasion than the one you haro 
referred to f 

Answer. No, sir. If I did, I didn't listen tq him. He called on me once to explain 
why I said — that is the only other time I heard him speak — ^he called on me to explaiu 
wh^ I said unkind things about his being candidate for president of the Alabama 
University, and I said, '^Mr. Lakin, yon and I are near neighbors, and I don't want to 
have much to do with you— not much; but I think this: didn't you try to be prea- 
ident of the Alabama University T" He said he did. I said, " It would have hien a 
dis^ace to the State. You don't know an adjective from an adverb, nor nothing else." 
I said, " Look here ; let me alone." But he says, " Tou dwelt upon me rather too nard." 
I said,' '' Do you propose to bully me — ^yon a preacher, and attempt to bully me on the 
streets f He says, ''No, but I rather didn't like what you said." Isatd, ''Doctor, 
you will have to like it, or let it alone." He let it (<lone. 

Question.' Mr. Lakin, in his testimony, stated that there was an attempt to aasaaainate 
him ; that some one fired a gun into his window. 

Answer, I honestly believe that was a parcel of boys here in town. I think'that 


their motliera ought to have whipped them ; whipped them. Nobody wanted to kill 
bim. He has lived there in a naked, exposed place for years, that Dobody distarbs : 
DobodJ^ wanted to kill him. If I wanted to kill him or put anybody up to kill Wm— if 
70Q jQst walk down there and see where he lives, you wil) see how easy it is for anybody 
to knock him in the bead. Nobody wants to kiU bim. He is a bumbng ; a liar and a 
danderer; that's what ho is, and he ain't nothing else. 

QiteslUm, What was his character among the people of this section of tho country ? 

Amver, I don't know what his character was before he came hero. 

Question, What character did he have among the people Iierof 

Answer, Ho had the character of being a carpet-bagger. That is enough to damn 

fyusHon. State more fhlly in regard to his character. 

Answer. That's all. He just had th^ character of being a carpet-bagger ; became here 
hnoting office out of the Federal Government, and fooled Uncle Sam, and humbugged 
him to make Uncle Bam pay him — lie on wo southern x>eople, and get pa^ for it. 
That is all the character ho ever had here. We dou't know nothing about his other 

By the Chairman : 

Question, I will ask you to state how you know when the Ku-Elux organization 
ceased to exist. 

Answer. I only know by tho fact of a public sentiment indicating tho fact that the 
Eo-RIux oro^auization had desisted. , 

Question, When did it cease to exist T 

Answer, It would Ihj impossible for me to point out the date, but I think, as near as 
lean tell you as a mere matter of opinion, tuat it ceased— that is, the men who were 
really Ku-Klux— in 1869, about the middle of the year. It seemed to m« that public 
sentiment changed, changed, and then tho Kn-KIux organization desisted aftervrard, 
because of tho fact that public sentiment changed. 

QucsOoH, From your best information, how strong had that order been in Madison 
County before this dissolution took place T 

Answer, You mean in lti6d T 

Question, Yes, sir. 

Answer. Well^ I think, sir, that in 1888 it was a strong organization ; that it included 
m its organization probably eight or nine hnndred men, who would do oiTectivo service 
in the field. I answer your question, Senator Pi-att, fairly. 

Question. During its existence, do you know or have you any information of any 
Tbippings, murders, or other outrages being committed by or under tho auspices of this 
Qfgauization 7 

Answer. Well, now, yon expect me as a republican to answer your question with per- 
fect fairness ? 

QuestioH. I expect yon to answer it tnitbfully, without any rofercnco to your party 
sffiHatious. I know nothing of them, except what you have stated hero to-day. 

Anewer. I believe — the only thin^j that I know — I belie vo this: I believe that the Ku- 
KIqs that wo saw in the town of Huntsville that night of that riot, didn't tire a gun — 
ti)tono single gnn ; but I believe, sir,"lhat those that fired tho guns that were frred- 
kere, no matter who commenced the shooting, that they were these Ku-Klux. I believe 
tbut. That is the only outrage I know, except one afterward upon my own place, and 
ifi mj own presence. 

Que^ioM, What was the nature of that f . 

Answer, You had better take one at a time. Now let me state what I know abont tho 
Ku-Klux organization here. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Quesiiim. The riot f 

Answer. The riot. In tho first place, I distinctly st^te that I believe there was a Kn- 
Klex organization In 1868 ; that they came hero to the town of Huntsville that night ; 
that there was a speaking and meetiug here. I myself belonged to and was in tho 
ineeting. I went away accidentally, because Mr. Haughey was making a speech abusing 
oar own people, and I wouldn't stay here and listen to any such chat as that, and went 
away ; aud just as I got in bed I heard the firing up in town, but didn't see any Ru-Klux 
then; but 1 believo there was a band — an organized band— of Ku-Klux here, in 1863, 
of men who in part thought it was necessary to protect our wives and children against 
outrage, who had formed themselves into an organization detestable and outrageous, 
detestable aud outrageous, and that they were here in town that night. I believe, from 
what I have heard,.that thev didn't fire a gun. but that they had agents and men upon 
the street, who mingled in tne affray, excited by the fact that these men were here, got 
into a row, and nobody knoWs who oommenoed shooting ; I certaiuljr do not, and uo> 
body else knows who oommenoed it. But there was oommenoed a shooting, bnt I believe 
that the men who were undisgoiseid and did the shootiuK belonged to the Ku-Klux. I 
believe thai, I believe that Mr. Cox, who himself was shot through the head by a Mr. 



Bo^r, a ne^, without an; sort of oaute, that Mr. Cox was a Ku-Klux, and that Hoper 
shot him without the slightest particle of cause ; that Cox was a Ku-Klux, and that 
UooffEmM a fooL 

OuesHai. How do j^ou know that Roper shot Cox f 

Ansuitr. I believe it ; I only said I believed it. I believe that Roper himself wonld 
admit that he did do it. 

Question. He swore, day before yesterday, that he did not do it. 

Answer, No matter what Roper swore : th^re is no use in trying to believe him. I 
have been Roper's counsel ; I understand that perfectly weU. I believe that Eogex shot 
Cox, and that it was done simply that the fact of |:he presence of the Ku-Klux was the 
cause of the difficulty, the cause of the outrage. I believe that afterward the public 
sentiment of this community condemned that act ; that it condemned it then. I Ijielieve 
that Judge Thnrlow was shot by accident of somebody ; no one knows who. I was his 
counsel in a civil case, and his mend, his friend ; and when the next night or the night 
afterward, when in the extreme of death, I heard the declarations of these men, who saiU 
that this was Ku-Klux murder, and that nobody here in this community would even dare 
to pray for a carpet-bagger that was shot — I say that I told them that that was not so, 
and it was either the present United States marshal, Mr. McDauiel, or somebody elsl^ 
I don't want you to put down these gentlemen's names, because I aui not accurate 
about that, but someoody said that. Dr. Cantwell— the doctor was present attending 
upon Thurlow— and I went and stood by his side, and told him, " You are mistaken ; no 
one can account for these outrages; we can't control these outrages— men that do these 
things." And I tried to sympathize with him, doing everything I could. The man 
was killed. As I went back in the room they said, " Yos, that is all a piece of hypoc- 
risy." Says I, "In whnt respect is that hypocrisy!" Says he, *' There is not a 
preacher in this town that would j»ray for him, even in the extreme of death." Says I^ 
** That is is false ; that is a lie." Says he, *' We will give you a United States guanl to • 
go and get any preacher that will try to get here to pray for him." Says I, " I don't 
want any guard j so far as I am concerned, I can go without a guard." "But tho 
preacher might be afraid, and mi^ht make that excuse." " Then send your guard." Id 
an instant two United States soldiers presented themselves, and said, "We will go with 
you." I went to Dr. Ross's house ; it was about half after 10 o'clock or 12. I rung the 
boll. I don't know whether the old man was asleep or not, but I woke him up and 
told him : " They say that on account of the prejudices against northern men, no mau 
here in this comfn unity would pray for a dying man." Says I, " Doctor, get up, and 
let's go and give a denial to that." He got up and put on his hat, and went around 
there without ever saying a word, and kneeled aown beside Judge Thurlow and 
prayed for lilm for a half hour, in the presence of these men that slandered our own 

By the Chairman : 

Question. I would prefer, Mr. Davis, that you would answer my questions. I do not 
care about going into so many minute details.. 

Answer. Very well, sir. 

Question, I will ask you to state what other c^es of outrage you know of, as having 
been committed by the Ku-Klux order. 

Ansioer. I know that the whole Ku-Klux order, as far as it was an order at all, that 
there was nothing that they did that was right ; that it was an outrage itself. Here 
at this bar, that man Smith was tried upon a charge of kiUing somebody, you know, in 
his own house. He was an old mau, and lived in my neignborhood, and I don't belie vo 
to this day that he was guilty ; but he was arraigneil here, and a jury empanneled, and 
some one put there, and democratic lawyers and a democratic judge all defended him, 
and then this Smith was acquitted, and he wont homo at night, and, by God, they toUl 
me the Ku-Klux — and I have no doubt of it — took him out and hung him up on tbo 
top of a limb. The next night they hung him. That was an outrage ; it was slianio- 
f)il ; it was worse than any Loyal League men ever could have done. 

Question. Do any other instances occur to you ¥ 

Anaicer, Of whipping f • 

Question, Whipping or killing. 

Ansicer, Well, sir, I really dou't knoW. I know this : they whipped and shot at that 
fellow down here in tho south part of this county. I know that tnoy did that. Sena- 
tor Pratt, the fact about the business is, tho Ku-Klux is played out in this country. 
Fake down what I say. They once existed here. 

Question. I want to know how you know that they have playe<I out. 

Ansicer. Because of this fact : that public sentiment in this country is against any sucU 
thing as that. They once were with it — sympathized with it in 1868. 

Question, Do you mean to say that since tne summer pf 1869 there have been no 
bands of disguised men in Madison County, who have committed any outrages upon 
people's persons t 

Anstoer. I do mean to say— I mean to say this: that there has been, since 1869, 


oo liaad of disi^aised men aathorized by what was the original Ku-Klux. There iras 
ftD original Ka-Klax band. I told yon that at the start. 

QueatUm, I want to know how you know thoy were not authorized by this Kn-Klus 

Antwer, Because of this fact : I saw the men that I believed belonged to it taking 
tidee ft^ainst them. 
QHesh»H,yh&t is your only reason f* 

Anneer. There is a better reason. I believe the men who employed me to prosecute 
the Ka-Klnx in this court-house were themselves Ku-Klux before. I believe that Cap- 
tain Clarke, and Steptoe Pickett, and Mr. Blackwell were themselves Ku-Klux origi- 
nally ; but they employed me to prosecute these professeil Ku-Kliix, who were nothing 
in the world but mere robbers, and thieves, and scoundrels. 
Question. There are such bands, then, existing in this county ? 
Answer. They are not bands ; they are only tliieo or four men together. 
Qucsiion. Does not that constitute a band f 

Answer. They don't constitute a band. A band is what the Ku-Klux was— a hun- 
dred and fifty men marching to the order of turn this way and that. There was such, 
but they are not. They don't exist. Now let me tell you something about the history 

of that case ; and will you excuse me, sir 

QueatioH. I wish you would be as brief as possiWe, because there are several other 
matters upon which I wish to examine j'ou. 

Ansicer. These mep went in disguise to that man — a negi'o — and whipped .him for 
some cause, and Mr. Blackwell told them that **Ku-Klus is done played out; we are 
against them ; we don't want to have anything more to do with it." They said, " We 
will whip you anyhow-^whip this negro knyhow." They came here to town and em- 
ployed me. I want to show you how that thing ran through, to show you the radi- 
cal change in the public sentiment, and as soon as you "are convinced of it, you will say 
to; 1 honestly believe you will. "Why," says he, *^ you tell me that this man has 
Jone thus and so, and you are not going to allow us to do that ?" Blackwell told them, 
" I don't want you to whip any negro upon my premises any more, and all your Ku- 
Klnx is played out." " All right," said he, and he went and whipped him, and Black- 
well came here and employed me, and I prosecuted them. They paid me a fee ; I prose 
cuted them before this probate Judge. I prosecuted them before this present probate 
jodge; bonndthem over to court; democrats, you know, were doing the prosecuting 
then. That has been six months ago. Democrats were doing that — ^prosecuted them 
good — ^and then convicted them and they went out on the streets, and what do you 
thmk t They went and got certain men to give bond that were not worth a cent that 
I radical sheriff, that is, Mr. Doyle — you can just hollo for him and bring him up here 
DOW, and he will say that he took a bond that he knew was not right ; be was afraid 
of the robbers; and you might be afraid of robbers, going walking about this county ; 
they will steal your pocket-book. 
Question. Is that Ku-Klux f 

Answer. I prosecuted them and convicted them ; convicted them, sir, and, sir, when 
tbey were discharged that evening by the sheriff, I went and asked the probate judge, 
'*By what right did the sheriff discharge them, when you told him not to do it T" Said 
he, *'He had no right to doit." " Then," said I, " it is a contempt of court, and I move 
that the court fine the sheriff for contempt of court, for allowing them to get off in that 
iort of a way." Ho said he would do that. ** Now," says I, " I will make an affidavit 
that the sheriff himself has contrived, that a radical sheriff has contrived, to let these 
robbers off," and I brought the whole of them up, and I will tell you what was the result 
of it. The judge himself, who sits below you, Mr. Pratt, the judge himself says, " They 
have been guilty of a contempt, but I am not going to tine them for it." " Why not f' 
lays I. " Bind over the sheriff in a bond of forty-five hundred dollars," and when the 
court met, I moved the court before a republican judge, *• Don't you lot thjit man ap- 
point that grand jury, because he will pack the jury and get himself off"." Think you, 
that, inspiteof mymotion, he didn't just disregard tbewhole of it. O, Senator Pratt, let 
me tell you something; the calm, intelligent, nonest, truthful part of this community 
are against the Ku-Klux. 

Qiitsium. Very well : now I wish to ask a question. You are familiar with the act of 
the legislature of Alauama, approved December 26, 1868, entitled ** An act for the sup- 
pression of secret organizations of men disguising themselves for the pnrposes of com- 
nitting crimes and outrages." You have read that law f 
Anncer. Yes, sir. 

Qae$tion. I wish to read to you the preamble of that law, and ask you whether the 
state of things contained in this preamble was true at the time this law was passed. 
Answer, You must read the date. 

Question. The date is December 26, 1868. Now, I will read the preamble : 
** Whereas t^ere is in possession of this general assembly ample and undoubted evi- 
dence of the secret organization, in various parts of this State, of men who, under the cover 
of masks and other grotesque disguises, armed with knives, revolvers, and otiier 


deadly weapons, do issue from the places of their rendezvooa, in bands of preater or 
loss number, on foot or mounted on horses, in like manner disguised, generally in the 
late Lours of the ni<jht, who commit violence and outrages ui)on peaceable and law- 
abiding citizens, robbing and mnnlering them upon the highway, and entering their 
houses, tearing them from tlioir homes and the embraces of their families, and, with 
violent threats and insults, inflicting on them thp most cruel and inhuman treatment; 
and whereas this organization has become a wide-spread and alarming evil in this oom- 
monwealth, disturbing the public peace, mining the happiness and prosperity of the 
people, and in many cases overriding the civil authorities, defying all law and justice, 
or evading detection by the darkness of the night, and with their hideous costumes ; 

"Section first, Be it enantod," &c. 

Do you believe that the btate of things therein recited os.L>ted in the State of Ala- 
bama at that time ? 

Ansirir. I will tell you ; that cn\U upon a man to believe a great deal abont that. I 
will tell you one thing, I never paid much attention to any law enacted by any such 
authority as that was. 

Question. I am not asking for your opinion of the law, but simply of the truth or 
"untnith of the recitals in that preamble f 

Answer. I believe that there wa4, in 1868, a Ku-Klux organization in the State of 
Alabama, and in Madison County, but I prefer that my testimony should be restricted 
to things I know of. I believe that. I believe that now it is more unsafe for a man 
to be a Ku-Klux hero than it woitld be in New York. I believe it would be much moro 
safe for a man to put on a disguise in the city of New York, or where you live, Senator 

Question. You have told us that several times, and I do not ask to have it repeated 
oftener. I wish to awk whether you saw published in the papers, some time in 1861), what 
purported to be an order emanating from the Cyclops of that organization, disbanding it. 

Ansiver. I did not. 

Questian. Did you ever hear of such an order T 

Anstvcr. I did not. 

Question. Were you a conhtant reader of the newspapers? 

Answer. I can't say that I am ; but I saw no such ordor. 

Question. And you have never heard of such an order? 

Anmcer. No.Bir; not until you mentioned it. 

Question. Did yon hear of such an order in 1S(59? 

Anstoer. I never heard of it until you mentioned it. I believe—I wish my statement 
to be taken down — I believe that, in 166S, there was an organization known as the 
Ku-Klux. I believe now that, because of the revolution create<l in public sentiment by 
its own wrongs, (no matter by what reason provoked,) that it is moro unsafe for a man 
to be a Ku-KhiK hero tban it would bo where Senator Pratt lives. 

Question. Aro earpet-ba-jjgei-s liked in this community any better than in 1868 ? 

AnsxDcr. Yes, sir; and for the purpose of giving a reason to show it, the present 
carpet-bagger who fsits beneath you ii this ])vobate court-oflQce can walk, and doo3 
walk, through this whole eomnumity ; he goes through its buildings, its bridges, attentf- 
ing to his business, not only without being hurt, but without the fear oft)eing hurt, 
and I do this in order to show that I amtelling the truth. It is mighty eai*y, you 
know, when men aro sitting in a conrt-hwiso like this, just to bring the ofilcer up 
stairs. He will say so himself. 

Question. Did I unchirstand yon to say that you are in fivor of the reconstmction 
measures passed by Congress f 

Answer. In favor of them i 

Question. Yea, sir. 

Answer. In favor of them ? I ac(c;)t them. I don't think that that is a political 

I accept them ; and, sir, 1 say this, that, belonging to the Southern Stat<?s, and to ttio 
State of Alabama, and bcing'allowed afterward to state my own record, I accept thorn, 
because it is the l>est that the subjectMl people of the State of Alabama can do. But an 
for the favor part of it, I don't proposo to allow you to put such language as that in 
my mouth. 

Question. I am asking you a question, and have asked whether you are in favor of 
the reconstruction measures of Congress. 

Answer. I am in favor of accepting them. 

QuestioTi. Is that your only answer t 

Anstver. I am in favor of accepting them, but I will not deal dishonestly. A man 
might be in favor of accepting something, but might be not abstractly in favor of the 
thing itself. 

OSestiofu Are you in favor of getting rid of them f 

Answer. No, sir ; I am in favor of accepting them, and standing by them in perfect 
good faith. I would go against anybody that would go against them. 

Question. Are you in favor of perpetual negro suffrage in the State of Alabama, t 

Answer. I am, I am. 


(^ustioH. Did you vote with the republican party at the fall election of 1868, for its 

Anttoer, Who were th/e candidates T 

Que^Uon, I suppose you know ; that was the year of ihe presidential election. 

Answer. I supposed, as you asked the qucHtion, you would tell me. I Totedfor General 

Question, Did you have any county ticket, or district ticket? 

Answer. I have iio county ticket myself; other people might. 1 voted for General 
Grant, against General Blair. Now, to state it — to come up to the scratch, because 
there is no use in dodging it — I voted simply against Seymour and Blair, because I 
thought they occupied the wrong ground ; but now, thinking that they did not, 1 wight 
vote very much the other way. ^ 

Question. You mean that you would vote differently now T 

AnstDcr. That is a questiou I have got a right to decide. You have no right to ask me 
anything in the future. I will answer that that is in the past. 1 would have votetl 
for Chase. 

Question. Did you vote with the rerjul/iican party and for its candidates last fall T 

Answer. Who were the candidates t 

Question. Did you vote for them, in the election in the fall of 1870 ? 

Answer. Who were the candidates ? 

Question. I suppose you know, as a well-informed man, better than I do. 

Mr. Blmr. Lindsay and Smith. 

The Witness. Lindsay and Smith and Judge Dox. You are talking about the State 
ticket. ^ 

By the Chairman : 

Question. I am talking about both tickets. 

Answtr, Well, designate which you want me to answer. 

Question. How did you vote on yoir State ticket 1 

Answer. Well, sir, 1 voted for Governor Smith ; what do you think of that ? 

Question. Did you vote for the republican candidates for the county offioes T 

Answer. I did not. I demand of my representative here [to Mr. Buckley] if there is 
any man in Alabama to ask mo why 1 did not do it. 1 voted for Governor Smith, and 
he made me-answer that. Now 1 demand that you ai*k me why I didn't vote — but 
[to Mr. Blair] you will do it. All right ; go uhoad. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Did you vote for a ivpublican or a democratic candidate for Congress iu the 
election in the fall of 1870 ? 

Answer. In the former one 1 voted for a republican ; in the latter one I voted for 
Judge Dox. 

Question, He was the democratic candidate, was he not f 

Answer. I don't know that you could consider him exactly the democratic candidate. 
He was a candidate. 

Question. Was he not nominated by the democratic party ? 

Answer. I don't know whether he was or not. 

Question, Who was the democratic candidate, then t 

Answer. Dox ; and I certainly voted for Dox. 

Qu^ion. How, then, do you say, as yon commenced by saying iu your examination- 
io-chief, that you have always been associated with the republican party since the 

Answer. Because I started the republican party in the State of Alabama, and have 
kept it up, and ana the only representative of its decency that is here yet. 

Question. But I understood you to say that you had always been associated with it 
«kice the war t 

Answer. I have been. 

QuesUon. Are vou now associated with it ? 

Answer. I don't know with what other party I am. ' 

Question. Are you in the couMence of the republican party at this time ? 

Answer. The mean set I am not. Those that are decent and respectable people I be- 
lieve that I am. 

Question. Do you support the policy of the republican party in this State at this 

Answer. I do ; that is, I support this : I support what I think the republican party 
has accomplished— the great, magnificent, kind-hearted, amiable, and fanatical party— 
I support that. I think it is an accomplished fact ^at they did, and I will not sup- 
port anybody or any induence opposed to it. I support that and sustain it, but I don^t 
sustain or support any mean, low-flung organization. -^ , ^ ^ donalp 

Q9e$tion. \that do you mein by that ; what do yon refer to T '^'^'^ ^^ VjUU^H^ 


Answer, I refer to the political organization of the republican party in the State of 

Question, You raecn that yon do not support that 

Answer. I mean that I believe that is m mean a concern as ever was on the face of 
this earth. 

Question, I just wanted to get at your political status. 

Answer. Certainly, sir; you can get at it. 

Question, You have spoken of Mr. Shjipard, a witness who was examined this morn- 
ing f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Have you ever been in that part of Blonnt County in which Mr. Shapard 
lives f 

Ansxcer. I suppose I have. 

Question, Do you know where be lives ? 

Answer, I really do not 

Question, Are you acquainted with his neighbors ? 

Answer. I am not. 

Question, Have you heard his neighbors speak of him as to kis character for truth 
and veracity t 

Answer. Well, look here, I want yon to put that down, I am sort o' Qoaker-raieed^ 
and stick to the truth. 1 know nothing m the world about Shapofd, except wiiat 1 
know about him here— about his record here in this town. 

Question, Then you do not know anything about his general charaoter in the com 
munity where he lives T 

Answer. As far as I do, I do know something about his testimony. 

Question, That is not the question. I ask as to his general character. 

Answer, Then I do know his general character. 

Question, Do yon know his general character in the community where he lives f 

Answer, I know his general charaoter in the country where he lives. 

Question, I ask you as to the community where he lives — the immediate neighbot- 

Answer, If you pin it down to Blount County, I do not ; I know his general charaeter 
in the country — in Alabama. 

Question, Then you do not know his (general character in Blount Connty T 

Answer, Well, Blount Connty gives it to the whole of North Alabama. I know it 
there. If yon ask a legal question, I can answer. I do not know his local character 
around within two miles of his house. I do know his general character in North Ala- 
bama. Go on with your questions. 

Question, I understand you to say distinctly that you do not know his character in 
the neighborhood where he resides f 

Answer, I distinctly answer yon I never made any such answer, and I do know hia 
general character. 

Question, Then I repeat the question, and request a direct answer. Do yon koow 
his character for morality or for truth and veracity in the neighborhood where bo 
lives t 

Answer. What do you moan by neighborhood f 

Question. A circle of a few miles around where he lives ? 

Answer, How many miles. You mean in the country where he lives ? 

Question, No, sir. 

Answer, If you mean in the neighborhood, the general reputation of the man, I do 
know that. 

QuesUon, I mean the neighborhood where ho lives, and you know what that means. 

Answer, I mean to answer most truthfully, if you just got at the fiict. 

(iuestion, I ask for his general character for truth and veracity in the neighborhood 
where he lives. 

Answer, Where he stops, I do know his reputation. 

Question, Do you know his general character for morality and fur tnitli and veracity 
in the county of Blount f 

Answer. Well, I think I do. 

Question, How many citizens of Blount County Jiavo you heard ftpoak of Mr. Shap- 
ard's character for truth and veracity T 

Answer, Not a one ; but I know his general character. 

Question, Do you know it from citizens of Blount County f 

Answer, I know it from what everybody says. 

QuesUon, Do you I;now it from citizens of Blount County f 

Answer, I know it from what everybody says ; citizens of Blount Connty or any- 

QuesHon, You can Icavo the stand, if you will not answer questioflir. f 

Answer, I did not mean to answer disrespectfully. Digitized by VjOO^Ic 

The Cn.iiRMAN'. I have no further questions to ask you. 


The Witness. Thea I will say this : I really think I know Mr. Shapard's charaotez 
in his own county. I really think I know his character in his own county. 

By Mr. Blair : 
Quegthn. I will ask you a question, with the consent of the chairman. What is his 
character t 
Answer, It is very bad. 
Qite$tion, In his own county T 
Anneer, Yes, sir ; and everywhere el^. 
Quettion, Is it bad in North Alabama f 
Answer. Yes, sir; ba<l in here in Huntsville, bad in Bloant, bad every where else. 

HuNTSViixE, Alabama, October 11, 18^1. 
JOHN VANVALKENBERG sworn and examined. 

Hie Chairman. As yon were called at the request of the minority of this committee, 
<^iieral Blair will conduct your examination. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question. Colonel, will you state how long you have lived in Alabama t 

Answer. I came to Alabama in December, lij66. 

QmesHon. From what State did you come f 

Answer. From Indiana. 

Qmestion. Had you been in the Federal Army during the War, colonel ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. What command did you hold T 

Answer. I was colonel of the Twentieth. I went out captain of a company ; ^!^hen I 
Ifft the service I was colonel of the Twentieth Indiana Volunteers. 

Question. Were you acquainted in Indiana with a man by the name of Lakin, who 
nibfleqnently came to live here ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. He lived in the town I came from — Peru, Miami County, Indiana. 

Question, What was his general rei>utatiou in the town in which he lived T 

Answer. In Indiana T 

Questum. Yes, sir. 

Answer. Well, I know nothing particularly against him, as a roan, in Indiana. I 
knew that he claimed to be a Methodist preacher, but was not allowed to attend in 
any of their conferences there at all. 

Qufstion. What was the reason he was not allowed to attend the conferences f 

Answer. It was something that happened in the 8tate of New York, or New York 
City. He was stationed there as a missionary, I. think, in the Five Points. — ^the way 
the story comes to me — and he was charged with seducing his own niece there; at least, 
that is his wife's story for it. 

Question. And for that reason he was not permitted, in Indiana, to attend the Meth- 
odist conference f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

QuesHon. He was ftuspended or excluded from tke church. 

Answer. No, sir ; he did some circuit-riding there and preaching ; but when the 
Methodist conference met in our town, Mr. Homnan, a Methodist preacher, was theriL 
and noticed that Mr. Lakin did not go into the conference, and he, Hoffman, told 
me that he was not allowed to ; that that class of men did not go into the Methodist 
conference in Indiana. 

Question. Did he tell you the cause ? 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question, You heard that from others ? ' 

Answer. Yes, sir; Mrs. Wilkinson, of Peru, told my wife that Mrs. Lakin told her 
that was the charge, but she did not believe it. 

Question: Did you know Lakin here T 

Answer. Yes, sir, 1 have known him since July, 1860. I was down here in July, 1866, 
before I moved here, and he was here then. 

QuesOim. What was the character he bore in this community 1 

Answer. Well, sir, it was rather hard. 

Question. State what it was. 

Answ&r. Well, he is considered a disturber of the peace here. He has organized, I 
brieve, some chnrches here, or a negro church down here, a Methodist church. There 
appears to be considerable ill-feeling amongst the negroes toward him. I nnderstood 
that they claimed that they paid him for the gronnd the church stands on ; that it wte 
bought some way in his name ; that they have paid him for the ground and he^id not 
make them a deed. This is the darkies* story. 


Q^e8U<nt, Does the obnrch stand in his namof 

Answer. 1 cannot say that. 

QuMUan, Had ho any means to pnrchaso and build that church of his own T 

Answer, I think not of his own. I think if he did it, it was done through the North* 
em Methodist chnrch in one way or other. He was down here as kind of a missionary, 
(K-ganizing a branch of that church here. 

QucstUm. Will you state what is his character here among the white people— his gen- 
eral character f 

Answer. It is bad. 

Question. In what respect ? 

Answer. Well, they consider him a disturber, an agitator and disturber, working np 
the negroes against the whites. 

Question. How in regard to his truth and veracity f 

Anstoer. Do yon mean what is his general reputation for it ? 

Question. Yes, sir ; his general reputation. 

Answer. Well, as talked on the streets, as spoken of on the streets, you mean T 

Question. Yes, generally. 

Answer, It is bad, sir. 

Question. Would yon, from what you know of him, believe him on his oath f 

Answer. I would not ; not since be testiOed in Washington, if that is the true report 
of his testimony there ^ the evidence he gave on the condition of afiieurs in Madison 
County I could not beheve. 

Question. Did you ever hear him speak here ? 

Answer, Make a speech f 

Question. Yes. 

Anstoer. No, sir ; I don't think ho does that, ouly in his profession, ' 

Question. As a preacher T 

Answer, As a preacher. 

Question, Did you ever hear him make a political speech 1 

Answer, I never did. Ho does his work — bushwhacking as they call it iu Miami 
County — going around and doing it by talking to people. 

Question. Was he a candidate for the Senate f 

Answer. Here! 

Question. Yes. 

Answer. I don't remember of his having the nomination for any office here. 

Question. I mean a candidate for the United States Senate before the legislature. 

Answer. I don't know ; there were so many of them candidates there that I coold 
not keep the run of them. 

Question. Do you know what his character was in Peru, as a man of truth and 
veracity t 

Answer. I don't think I ever heard anything said against his character for truth and 
veracity there. He is the first secessionist I ever knew. 

Question. A secessionist f 

Answer. He split the Methodist church in Peru and took half of it. 

Question. Was that during the war or before it f 

Ansufer. Before the war. . 

Question. Was it well understood that that was his course there f 

Answer. 1 say secessionist because ,it amounts to that. They split on the mode of 
seating the ladies and gentlemen together. They had no disagreement previous to his 
coming there, and he was opposed to their sitting together, and tho balance of the 
church, a large proportion of them, were in favor of the ladies and gentlemen sitting 
together. They thought a man and his family could sit together. They have a ohoir 
to sing and an organ. He was opposed to that and he drew off with his followers and 
went and started a little shebang in the lower end of the town. 

Question. In speaking of him as a secessionist yon only allude to his breaking off 
fron the chnrch ? 

Ansuter. Yes, sir. 

Question. Not to anything political 1 

Answer. O, no, sir, not at all— not a political thing. 

Question. You say you became a colonel in the Army. How long did you servo in the 
United States Army t 

Answer. About two years, twenty- three months, I think it was. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. How long did you know Mr. I>akin in Peru 1 

Answer, I think I knew him about three years before the war. I would not be posi- 

Question, Was he a good citizen during that time f 

Answer. Well, yes, sir, I think he was. I did not know anything against him. 

Question. Did yon ever hear anything against his character during that time f 


Jniwer. No, sir, I don't think I did. 
Qumfiw. Was he engaged in preaching tlie gospel ? 

Anawer, No, sir, not to my knowledge. I have heard that ho used to go out aud 
preach in the ooontry occasionally where they needed a preacher, but was not en- 

What was his occupation while living in Peru f 

Aiuwtr. I dont know that he had an occupation, only preaching occasionally at these 
phces. His daughter and wife taught school there. 

QueaUon. Do you know the Rev. Mr. GiUam, a Methodist preacher now preaching at 

A98wer. No, sir. 

Qite$H(m, Do you know Hon. James M. Tyuor, a membor of Congress living in Peru f 

Answtr, Yes, sir. 

Questkm, Is he a man of truth f 

Aiuwer, I should take him to be a man of truth. 

Question, Would you rely upon any statement he would nuiko In relation to Mr. 
Lokin's position and character while ho lived there. 

Antwer, Yes, sir, I think I would. 

QuMHon, Do you know Harvey J. Shirk, an attorney at Peru ? 

Auiwer. Yes, sir. 

Question. la he a man of good standing aud character tbero ? 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Would you rely with confidence upon any statement lie might make in 
idfetion to Mr. Lakin's standing and character while living in Peru f 

Answer, Yes, sir. ' 

Question, When did you first hear this charge of his having seduced a uioco at or 
near the Five Points in New York? 

Answer, I beard it in Peru. I did not hear the charge definitely state*!. That it was 
aTery serious charge I heard in Peru. 

Question, Who did you hear it from ? 

AnswGT, I could not tell you who I heard it from now. The next time I heard it was 
from Harvey J. Shirk here in Huntsville. 

Question, In what year was that ? 

Answer, I think it was in 1869. 

Question, Did Mr. Shirk express any opinion as to his believing or disbelieving that 

Auwer, No^ sir ; he did not express an opinion one way or the other. 

Question. How did ho come to mention it f 

Answer, He was at my house, taking dinner with me there, and asked me about 
Lakin in the conversation, and I told him he was here. He asked me what he was 
doing. I told him he was trving to organize a branch Methodist church, I believed, 
and some other things I think likely I told him. 

fiuestion. When should Mrs. Wilkinson have communicated this information to your 
▼ife, in relation to Lakin f 

Answer, Last month. 

QuesUon, When your wife was on a visit to Peru ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. You say Mrs. Wilkinson expressed her disbelief of the truth of the state* 

Answer, No, sir. Mrs. Lakin said she didn't believe it. I don't know what Mrs. 
Wilkinson's notion was about it. 

Question, Did you hear the character of Mr. Lakin generally discussed before he 
giTo his evidence in Washington T 

Answer. Yes, sir, t^iousands of times. 

Question, You say his character was bad on account of his being a disturber of the 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. In what did he disturb the peace ? 

Answer, In stirring up the negroes against the whites down here. 

Question, Down where ? 

Answer, Down here in Huntsville, and in this county, and aJ\ over. You could hear 
of him all over Jackson County, and Blount County, and dilierent counties that he 

Question. From whom does your information proceed that he was dibturbing the 

Answer, I have seen it published in the pax>er8 here, and I have seen affidavits made 
by citizens around through the counties. 

Q»eiHoii. Published in the papers here ? . (^ ] 

Answer. Yes, sir. Digitized by VjOOQ IC 

Question. Wiule Mr. Lakio was here? ^ 


Amicer. Yes, sir. 

Qtte9tion. Did you over attend any meeting where such disturbance took place t 

Anewer, No, sir ; I have attended very few political meetiDgs since I have been in 

Question, Were they political meetings at which these distnrbances were created f 

Answer. No, sir : thev were disturbances made by going on the plantations, and this 
goin^ and gathering the negroes together, and arraying them, and urging them, and 
talking to them against the whites. 

Question, What did he say to them— what was his language t 

Ansvoer, I cannot tell you. I never heard him. 

By Mr. Rice : 
Queaton, Did they commit any acts on account of his teachings T 
Answer. I don't know as to that. 

Question. Did they make any disturbance of tl«e peace on account of his teaoMn^sf 
Anewer. I don't know that they did. I could not say ; I could not pick on anything 

By the Chairman: 

Question, You never heard him yourself harangue the negroes T 

Answer, Noj sir. 

Question, Did ^on ever talk with anybody who has heard him T 

Anewer, No, sir. I have seen a statement in the paper here, coming from a man in 
Jackson County—I don't know whether it was in 1867 or 1868 — that Lakin was tsawl- 
ing through that county, and stopped at, I think, a confederate soldier's house, and 
Mr. LaMn asked to stay all night, and he told him he could. This was the statement 
in the paper, sworn to by the man, and Mr. Lakin sat down on the porch and talked 
to him, and told him that times had changed here ; that the negro had got to be on an 
equality with white folks now, and had tne same rights that white men had. Supper 
was ready, and they invited Mr. Lakin in to supper, and he ate supper ; and when he 
got ready to go to bed, the man showed him a bed to get into ; and Air. Lakin stepped 
up to the bed and saw it was occupied, and he saw a negro in the bed, and be looked 
around at this man. The man was there standing at the door, and told him that was 
the bed he had to sleep in ; and this statement says that he then got into the bed and 
slept with the negro. 

Question. Who was the man who made that affidavit t 

Answer. I don't remember the name now. It was published in the paper. 

Question, Did yon know the man T 

Answer, No, sir ; I never saw him in my life. 

Question. Do you know whether he is a man to be believed or not ? 

Answer, I could not say anything about it. It was in 1867 or 1868, and I was on the 
plantation in 1867, and I was not very well acquainted with the county. 

Ques^on, Was that mentioned as an instance of his disturbing the peace t 

Anewer, No, sir ; only I was Just telling you one of the articles that was in the paper. 

Question. Did yon understand that it was Hobson's choice with him, to sleep with 
• the negro, or not have a bed at all f 

Answer, No, sir, I did not understand anything about it. I didn't understand that at 
all. I suppose the young man thought it was right for him to practice what ho 
preached. So I iudged from reading the article. 

Question. You know nothing of the truth of the statement contained in that article f 

Answer. No, sir ; only it was a sworn affidavit. 

Question, You may proceed to state more particularly than you have, in whj^ way 
Mr. Lakin disturbed the peace. 

Answer, I don't know tnat I can state it any further than his talking with the negroes 
in thesc^ gatherings, where they gather them for preaching. 

Quesiion. But I understood you to say that you never heard him talk to the negroes T 

Answer, I never did hear him talk. 

Question. You never saw him bushwhacking, as yon cnll it ? 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Your information js all second-hand ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; I saw it published in the papers. 

Quesiion. Was there not a great deal of feeling in the community against Mr. Lakin 
on account of his mission to the South to organize churches under the auspices of tho 
Methodist Episcopal Church f 

Answer. I don't know how that is, Mr. Pratt. There is one thing that brought down 
on him and made a very ill feeling toward Mr. Lakin and his family. When be first 
came here, or in 1867 rather, he was living here, and his daughter was writing letters 
to the North, slandering and running down the people here, and calling them all kinds 
of names that you can think of, that a woman would call thetn, in those articles ; and 
those papers were sent right back here, and those articles oopied in these papers. 


Quatian. He suffered on accoant of bis daugbter^s writing f 

Antwar, That fetched him more i^romincntly before the people, aud thoy noticed him 
more than they would otherwise. 

Qmesticfn, Do you know of a single act of immoral conduct on the part of Mr. Lakin, 
whUe be dwelt for years in this community ? 

Answer. I do not. 

Qnttfion. Did you ever hear a single act of immoriil conduct reported against him 
xrhilo he lived heref 

Aimrer, No, sir ; I have heard intimations of things, but I never heard anything 
that could be traced to any authentic source. 

Quegtiam. Did you ever hear hie reputation for truth and veracity called in question 
before he gave his testimony before the committee at Washington 7 

Amwer. Yes, sir. 

QiuslUm, By whom f 

Anmcrr, Well, I have heard talk of it on the streets. I conld not name the parties. 

QumtUm, On what ground was his truthfulness challenged, and his character for 
troth brought into question f 

Aniwsr. About the time before he left for Washington it was known aU tyrer town 
here that he was fiummoned before the committee there, and it was talked of that he 
WM a fit subject to go before the committee ; that he would testify to anything they 
would ask him to. 

QuetHom. Who was it that spoke up then and charged him with untruth f 

Aiuwer. I don't know. It was the general talk over town about his going there, and 
bis name was mentioned in connection with others. 

Question, Did any one say he had been guilty of telling lies while living here in this 
fommunity T 

Auwer, No. sir ; not to my knowledge. 

QuestUm, Then the apprehension was that he wouM tell untruths ? 

AnsKor, Well, that is the way th^ expressed it. 

Queation. His family is living here yet. Is it not f 

Answer. I conld not tell you. I think there is a young man by the name of Rains, 
who married his daughter, here. I see Kains here occasionally, but I do not know 
that I have seen Mrs. Lakin or Mrs. Rains for six months. 

QuesHon, You heard of his house being fired into, did yon not 1 

AKKfor, Yes, sir. 

Qmatwrt, You have no reason to doubt the truth of this statement, have you, that 
it was fired into T 

Antwer, No, sir; I have no reason to doubt it, for I live in the house and the bullet- 
holeB are there ; but I have great reason to doubt that any one fired into it unless it 
WIS some one — weU, the general impression is, that it was some darkies that he had 
wronged some way in planting operations here. 

QwMtkm. You say that was the general impression 1 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

(inestion. Among what class of people 7 

Answer. Among the whites. I have heard it was expressed by the darkies them- 
■chres, but never to me. There was some trouble between Mr. Lakin and a gang of 
teUes that I think he was backing in raising a crop in 1866. 

Qu^ion. Have you ever heard a single man of the republican faith speak against 
Ifr. Lakin's character T 

Answer. I do not know that I have, because I have not talked a great deal with any 
of the republicans. I don't think that there are more than a dozen or two in town 
that I ever talk to much. 

QmsCioii. Why ? Do you have no correspondence at all with the republicans herot 

Answer. O, yes, sir ; but there is a certain of them that I havo no use for. 

Qne^on. What class do you refer to ? 

Answer. A class of men who vote the republican ti<ket horo. 
Qnatwn, That you have no use for ? 

^^wircr. Yes, sir : I don't want to associate' with them. 

QnesHon. What is the trouble with them • 

AnsKtr, Because I think thej' are not fit for anybody to aj^sociate with, that class of 

nM». I am not siK^akiug now of the respectable republicans, but of a certain class that 

QuestioH. Men from the North ? 

Ansv^r. Home of them nre from the North, some are not. 

Question. You are not down on carpet-baggers, are you 7 

Anstvtr. I am pretty tight on some of them. 

Question. Do they ever call you a carpet-bagger 7 

QuestUm, Yet you were bom and raised in the Northern States f^''^^ by V^OOglC 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, But your party never designate you a carpet-bagger 7 


.Answer, They never have, to my knowledge. 

Qmettion, That term, then, is only applied to republicans who come down here with 
carpet-bags f 

Answer, It is only applied to these follows who came and squat aroand the country 
seeking office, deluding the negroes and getting them to vote for them, and then 
tripping them. 

Quesium. Do they not apply it to all men indiscriminately, who come from the North 
and vote the republican ticket and are outspoken f 

Answer, No, sir. I never heard of a man calling Mr. Vandeventer a carpet-bagger, 
or Mr. Tancro, who is from Wisconsin, and is a republican. 

Question, Did this community take you by the hand when you came and settled 
with them f 

Ansfioer, Yes, sir. 

QuMtion, They have treated you since with kindness T 

Answer, I never had a cross word said to me but once. 

Quesiio^n, Are you upon terms of entire social equality with the old residents here f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

QuesUkm, Do you visit in their families, and do they visit in your family I 

Ansxoer, To a certain extent they do. They have very strong lines. I don't suppose 
there is a place in the world where they are more aristocratic in their views than they 
are here. 

QiAestion, You mean there are certain people of your own political faith who do not 
visit you, and you do not visit them ? 

Answer, I do not visit their families. 

Question, Is it because you are a northern man t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, What is the reason ? 

Answer, I have not money enough. If I had money enough, and was a radical, 1 
could go anywhere. It is monej^. ** Money is what makes the mare go.'' 

Question, So that a radical, with money, could go with the aristocracy here t 

Ansufer, Yes, sir. 

Question, And that is the standard of respectability f 

Answer, Yes, sir, to a certain extent, the same as it is up North. There are plenty 
of radicals and republicans as well as democrats there that hold themselves above 
common people. They have their rings there as well as in other places. 

Question, You do not think money is the standard in Peru and in Logansport, where 
wo have both been f 

Answer, Peru and Logansport are different from any other places that I have ever 
been in, Mr. Pratt. They don't drapr the lines so close there. You know they have 
not the wealth. 

Question, There are such men as John Miller, and D. P. Bearss, and John T. Huseel- 
man, and W. W. Uanoy, they are not aristocrats, and have they not money enough f 

Answer, I don't know how it is with you Logansport people. I know John Miller 
was not an aristocrat, but George L. Dart you know is, and he is a republican. 

Question, But he is not a man of large wealth, is he? 

Answer, No, sir; but he throws himself back on his dignity very much. 

Question, You spoke about Mr. Lakin organizing a negro church here, and about 
their putting up a house, but that he withholds a deed for the lot. 

Answer, That is the story coming from the negro members of the church. 

Question, Have you conversed with them f 

Answer, Yes^ sir. 

Question, With how many of them ? 

Answer, Two or three of them. They came around two or three times a year for 
contributions for their churches. 

Question, Are those negroes you speak of members of the Methodist Episcopal Chaicb 
South f 

Answer, No, sir; they are members of the church Mr. Lakin organized. That is the 
church between here and the depot, down here. 

Question, Are not the negroes in possession of the church and worshiping there T 

Anstoer, Yes, sir. 

Question, And complaint has been made that he withheld the title f 

Answer, Yes. sir ; that is the way they tell it ; that it has been paid for and he with- 
holds the deed. 

Question, You have not heard the other side f 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, You do not know anything of the merits of the case t 

Answer, No, sir ; I don't know anything about it at alL 

By Mr. Buco^Y : Digiti,,^ by GoO^Ic 

^testion. Did I understand you to say that this charge was made against Mr. Lakati 
8 ho was living in New York City, at Five Points T 


Answer. ye8,.eir; that is the way I understand it. 

ijwoetion. Sabseqaent to that, did he live in Peru, Indiana ! 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Qwation, Do I understand yon correctly as saying that he was uot permitted to go 
into the general conference of the Motbodist Episcopal Church, but that ho continued 
to ride a circuit about tho country T 

Answer, Yes, sir. Mr. Hoffman told uso he was not allowed to attend tho Methodist 
coDference there, but I understood he was doing a little preaciung on his own hook 
ootside wherever they wanted a preacher occasionally. 

Question, Do I understand yon to say that he continued his ecclesiastical connection 
with the Methodist Episcopal Church while at Peru, Indiana? ' 

Answer, I don't know what connection lie bad with it. Mr. Iloffmau told me he was 
Qot allowed to attend the oonference; that ho was not admitted. 

Question, Was he a licensed preacher of the Methodist Church at the timof 

Answer, I cannot tell yon. 

Qnesium, Ue did preach f 

Answer. Ho preached around through tho conutry. 

By Mr. Rice : 
Question, Was ho a member of the Metbotlist Church T 
Answer, I suppose ho must have been. 

By Mr. Buckley: 

Question, Do you think the Methodist Episcopal Church would retain a man in its 
ministry under such a charge of guilt ; much lt^6S do you think they would allow him 
U> preach f 

Answer, I don't know how they could hinder him, if he wanted to preach on his own 
book. I have a right to preach, if I waut to. 

Question, You do not know whether ho had maintained his connection with the 
church or not f 

Answer, I don't know. 

Question, Was there more than one Methodist colored church hero at the close of the 

Answer. At the close of the war I was not hero. 

Question. Was there at tho time you arrived hero? 

Answer, 1 don't know that I could tell you now whether there was or not. I think 
(here are two down here, either Baptist or Metho<list, or something or other. 

Question, Did you ever hear that the colored people of this city who composed the 
Methodist church here, had a right to worship in a building which they put up on a 
lot, the uso of which was given to them so long as they cohtmucd in connection with 
tho Tennessee conference T 

Answer, 1 don't know anything about it. 

Question, YoU never beard that ? 

Answer, I never heard it. I heard tli^ro was some trouble about tho Baptist church 
down hero. Mr. Lakin had something to do with it in some way, and got an order 
from the commanding oOicer of this department turning the church over to somo other 
• Question, Was that tho one the colored people had built before tho war 1 

Answer. I don't know whether it was or not. 

Question. Did Mr. Lakin organize any Methodist church here whatever? 

Answer. 1 think he did. 

Question. Are you positive upon that point t 

Answer. I am not positive. 

Question. You do not know whether ho organ izixl it, or whether ho came here and 
fonnd a church organized ? 

Answer. I am rather under the impression that the' church lot was bought by some 
one and tho church built, or a building may have boon on it, (that was a building 
<lown Iwtween here and the depot,) since he has come here. 

Question, You do not know whether the church was given by him or notf 

Answer. No, sir ; I don't know anything about that. I know there was considerable 
excitement about the mode of his trying to get this church away from the denomina- 
tion that bad it in charge here, that is, the Baptist Church. The order was counter- 
manded and issned again, and countermanded again, so the papers stated. Finally tho 
old Baptist retained the church. 

Question, Was not that the Methodist church, instead of the Baptist church f 

Answer. It is tho Baptist church now, and has been used as a Baptist church over 
onee. It is this brick church ri^ht back of the hotel here. 

QuesHon. In regard to Mr. Lakm I wish to ask you a question, which was asked and 
uswered by Judge Dox, and is found on pago 4^ of his testimony : 

" Question [by the Chairman, Mr. Poland.] What act did vou ever hear of Mr^J^Jdn 
•onmittiDg that was derogatory to his character as a Ofaristian miniBterf 


Tbe answer to that question is this : 

** 1 cannot say that I have heard of any specific act derogatory to Lis cbaraetor aa a 
Christian minister/' 

Now, before the 13th day of Jane last, did yon ever hear anythukg that was desogs^ 
tory, or do yon know of any act that he committed in this comaiaBity, derogatory to 
his character as a Christian minister f 

AMtMT. I don't know that I coold answer that. I don't know that I eyw beard 
anythsog here hat what yon would call that report, if trae — — 

Question. I am not talking about tho report. I want yoa to specify any act HuA be 
committed, while living £ere as yonr fellow-towasman, that was derogatory to bis 

Anmoer, I might say this: I don't think, from my notion of Christianity, ttiat any 
preacher bos a right to meddle with x>olitics, as long as be is preaching, acting aa a 

Question. You referred to some reports. How did these reports of Mr. Lakin reach 
yout Did they come through tho newspapers or were tbey rumors, communicated 
from one to tbe other f 

Anstoer. Which reports T 

Question. Tbe rumors you have beard derogatory to liis character ; how did you obtain 
them f ^ « 

Answer. I have seen tbeni published in the papers, and heard this principal one ; my 
wife told me of that. I did not boar tbe speciiic charge until she returned from tho 
North, and it was rather strange to me that Mrs. Wilkinson, knowing Mr. Dan aa well 
as I do and that be is a decided republican, should say that much about Mr. Lakin. 

Question. Do you know that Mr. Lakin was sent down here by tbe Cincinnati confer- 
ence of the Methodist Episcopal Church ? 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Under the supervision of the late Bishop Claik f 

Answer. I don't know anything about who sent him here. 

Question. If that was tbe case, do you think the Methodist Church would send down 
here to such a responsible position as this a man under such a charge as that T 

Answer. Well, I don't know. The bishop might not have known anything about this 
previous report. It appears he was not allowed in the Methodist conference of Indiana 
on some ground or other, and the report was that there was some crime that be was 
charged with in the city of New York. 

Question. These ecclesiastical bodies, conferences, are presided over in tnm by the 
dinereni bishops of the Methodist Church, are they not f 

Answer. I could not answer that. I don't know anything about their drill. 

Question. I believe they are so presided over, so that the bishop of that Indiana con- 
ference might be, the subsequent year, tbe presiding officer of the Cincinnati confer- 
ence, and so be changed about ; and in fact while Mr. Lakin was here. Bishop CU^k, 
Bishop Janes, and Bishop Simpson, of the Methodist Episcopal Church, all presided 
over tbe conference of which this district was a part. Now, do you think it possible 
for those three persons to have retained here a minister who was resting under such a 
charge as that of which you have spoken f 

Answer. I don't know what they might do. Tbe charge was there ; it was never de- 
nied ; it was admitted ; and still he came down hero in that capacity. 

Question. Do you usually believe newspaper reports that you bear f 

Answer. Tliis was not a newspaper report ; this was told as the trutb. 

Question. The statement you referred to in tho papers here ? 

Answer. And do I usually believe them T 

Question. Yes. 

Answer. I don't think all such statements arc to bo relied upon, but a great many of 
them are, especially if they are backed up by circumstances and other evidence. 

Question. I remember a few years ago, not more than three years, of having received 
a newspaper slip containing extracts from some paper in liidiaua, which spoko in 
very derogatory terms of some of your family connection. I never have given any 
credence to those statements. I never have asked about them. I remember simply of 
seeing them, but have passed them by. Do you not tbiuk that such reports frequently 
get out— reports that may bo true or false T 

Answer. If you had bunted for tbe author of that report, yon would have found it to 
be Mr. Lakin, and be referred those parties to the chairman of the republican central 
committee of Alabama, and I wrote to the chairman of that committee and have got bis 
answer in my pocket. That is no fair way to deal with any man. You write a slander- 
ous article against a man and sign a fictitious name, and bow can he defend himself f 

Question. Is not that the character of much of tbe newspaper information t 

Answer. But where they give name and place it is a different thing. 

Question. Have you seen anything of Mr.Lakin*s testimony except such portion of it 
as was sent by the Associated Press to Huntsville, and throughout the country ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. I did not see anything through tbe Associated Press. I saw articlea 
written here in Huntsville where he is living. 


Qu mti o n , B«t in regard to his tettiiaoBj in Waflhinj^KXif 

Jmwar, I «aw that in the p^pen. 

Qu mtioH ^ Do yon jadge him aod hU character simply by wh»t yoti saw of his testi- 
flMoy, aa telegraphed over the ooontry by the Asaociated Preas t 

Jntwtr. lioyair. 

Qttmtkm. I think that in yonr testimony you stated that sinee he gare hia evidence 
in Waabinctoo yen would not brieve htm t 

A9$tMr, You aakedlbr his general repatation here for tnth and veracity, and I told 
jWL that bedfeire hia teatimony was given, at the tuae th^ said he was snmmoned to 
taeliiy before the committee, the expression ef diffwent parties on the street was that 
thay would not believe hira nnder oath, and after that it was general in the streets 
that he had stated that whidi was false, becanse the acts that he stated aa coaHoaitted 
in Madiaon Connty were not true, which everybody knew. 

Que$iia», Yon judged of the testimony by what you saw in the papers f 

Answer. I Judged from the testimony myself, as far as I was concerned — things that 
be stated as nappeniug in this county, about the condition of it ; that a Union man or 
a republican living here was not safe here, if such was his statement 

Qme9tiim, How do you know that was his statement T 

Answer, I only know that was in the paper. His testimony, as published in the 
HoDtsville paper here, was that a Union man or a republican could not express his 
sentimente in Madison County ; that it was not safe for bim to do it. 

Question, How long did yon servo in the Federal Army T 

Answer, About twenty-three months. 

Question, Were you tried by court-martial during tho war 1 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question, Were you dismissed from tho so it ice ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, For what cause f 

Answer, Well, sir, the charge was "disloyalty to tho goverumcnt, and conduct un- 
becoming an oflicer and a gentleman." 

Question, On that charge you were dismissed ? 

Answer, On tlat charge I was dismissed, without a trial and without any specifica- 
tions or anything of the kind. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Questiom. State all the facts in reference to that transaction. 

Answer. I wish to give an explanation, as you have asked that question. When I 
took a company out from Peru, Indiana, I was put in the Twentieth Indiana Regiment 
with Colonel Brown, of Logansport. On the resignation of Mi^or Ben Smith, I was 
made major of the regiment. On the resignation of Charles Murray, lieutenant coloneL 
I was made lieutenant colonel. On the death of Colonel Brown, at the second battle of 
Boll Run, I was made colons of the regiment. At the battle of the seven days' fieht, 
in front of Bichmond, I was wounded and sent home, and while in the hospital at 
Wasbin^ton Mr. Colfax fetched me my pay and an order detailing me on the recruit- 
iog service in Indiana. I reported to Indianapolis and gathered up eighty -five recruits 
for the regiment, I and tho recruiting party. In starting back, at Indianapolis, I 
thought 1 nad not quite money enough to take me back to the regiment. I asked a friend 
of mine there for the loan of $50, and ho pulled me out $40 and gave it to me and said, 
" I don't like tho idea of loaning money to a man that is fighting under this damned 
Digger administration." I told bim I would send it to him the first pay-day. Tho first 
pay-day came, and I sent him tho money by express, and wrote him that I had done 
so, and stated in the letter that it was the last money I expected to get for the next 
four months from 'Hhis damned ni^^ger administration." I put that in, intending t6 
use his expression, his "damned nigger administration." That letter went to Indian- 
apolis, and a man by the name of Reynolds, a sutler there, (thia other man's namo was 
Kieynolds, too,) took the letter out of the office thrdngh a mistake, opened it and 
read it over and took it to Morton. Morton asked tho Secretary of War to dismiss mo 
from the service : and on that letter I was dismissed from tho service, without any 
charges or specifications. 

Qiistion, Or any opportunity to explain t 

Answer, Withont any. I went to Washington at the request of General Hooker. 
He and General Bimey gave me tho strongest papers they could for mo to go and ask a 
bearing of the case. 1 went ; and Mr. James Hughes, of ludiaia, and Dr. Evarts went 
with me to the President. One of them I mot from the camp in front of Fredericks- 
bu^, coming to Washington. General Sickles told me he would withhold the publi- 
cation of tho order until I could go to Washington and do something about the matter. 
Mr. Hughes went to the President, and the President told him he had not the scratch 
of a pen against me in his possession ; that he never had heard of me before. Still I 
was clismissed by order of the President, through Stanton. I could get no trial, no 
hearing, nothing of the kind. When I asked for it they told me I would have to go to 


Indianapolis and seo Governor Morton. Hero are « few of tbe tefttlmoniald from ofil' 
cors, from General Hooker down to the lowest commiaeioned officer there was an tho 
whole aroiy of tbo Potomac, so far as I was known in it. [Exhihiting docomants ap- 
pended to the testimony of this witness.] These are certified copies of tbe oiiginalxi. 
The originals I sent to Mr. Lincoln about two weeks before he was killed, and never 
heard from them. These are certified to by Alexander Black, circuit clerk of Miami 
County, Indiana ; and also this printed copy I submit for the use of the committee. A 
copy of the whole of them was printed in a newspaper in my defense, in answer to 
that tdanderous article published here. That article was not published here, but made 
np in printed packages and deposited on the train in Pern, Indiana, by this nuui 
Lakin*s daughter, and scattered broadcast over this town here; every merchant aod 
every boainess man here received one, without any signature to it. It gave us author- 
ity the chairman of the republican central committee of Alabama for the truth of those 
statements. I wrote to him. 1 think his name is Bocock. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question, Glascock, is it not ? 

Anaicer, That is the man. His ausw er is there. lie did not think the rcpublicAn 
party had got so low as to stoop to that kind of doin<p> iu Alabama. 

By ilr. Blair : 

Question. If yon will file that paper it will be appended to your testimony. 

Anaicer. I would ask that as a favor of the chairman of this committee. Hero nre 
the testimonials ; here are certified copies in manuscript. You know Aleck Black's 
signature, Mr. Chairman, and this will show you that there waa great injustico duno 
hero. This slander nas been circulated all over tbe land. 

By the Chairman' : 

Question, Referring to what you have said in reference to Mr. Lakin, I wish to in- 
quire if you ever heard it gainsaid, or controverted, that he came here by tbo direct 
authority of the Methodist Episcopal Church, for the purpose of extending its mem- 
bership into Alabama? 

An9wer, I have heard that he came down to organize a branch of the Northern 
Methodist Church. 

Question, Did you nnderstand that he came down clothed with proper authority from 
the ecclesiastical authorities of that church f 

Answer. I never heaxd anything about that ; I Just heard the simple statement. In 
1866, when I came here, there was a man named Applogate, and a man named Kobin- 
son, who used to bo a partner of Applegate, and I got acquainted with Apx)legato and 
Robinson in 1866 here, and whilst iu their office Lukin came in. That is the time this 
excitement was going on about this Baptist Church; and knowing Lakin as well as I 
did In Pern, I asked Applegate what he was doing here, and he told me he was attemx>t- 
ing to organize a branch of the Methodist Church North here. 

Question. But you do not know whether it was by authority of that church or not T 

Annoer, I do not. 

Question, Did you ever hear that Bishop Clark, of Cincinnati, or Bishop Simpson, or 
Bishop Janos, visited Huntsville during the time Mr. Lakin was living here and work- 
ing in the interest of the church t 

Amtcer. No, sir, 1 never did. There was a man named Chalfont who, I think, lived 
in the house when Mr. Lakin's house burned up ; I am not positive about that. 

Question. What of him T 

Answer, You asked me if I knew any of these other parties j I knew him. 
. Question, Was he a Methodist minister ? 

Awncer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Was he of higher authority than Mr. Lakin iu the church ? 

Ansiccr, I don't know how that was. 

Question. You never heard of those bishops visiting here and superintending tho 
work of Mr. Lakin t 

Answer. No, sir. 

By Mr. Bucklky : 

Question. Did you hear of Bishop Clark holding a conference in 186C in Talladega ? 

Answer. No, sir ; I was not here then. 

Question. Or Hfshop Smipson, in 1869, visiting Georgia and Alabama to preside over 
the ecclesiastical body ; did you hear of his visit f 

Answer. No, sir, not here ; it might have been at Talladega, but I did not .hear of ii 
at the time. I don't take any of the Unutsville papers at all, and never have ; I think 
they are mighty poor excuses for newspapers and I don't take any of them. 

By the Chairman: GoOqIc 

QnetUon. You operate with the democratic party here, do'^you r o 


. Ye$, sir. As they say iu that ariiole which I have given yba with those tes- 
ttBooys, I WM raised a deraoerat and expect to die one unless there is some better 
pro^eet than I see now. 
(^ettiom. Ton are regarded as being a pretty strong, bitter partisan, are you net f 

. Ko, sir ; they charge me with being a conservative. 


The documents referred to by the witness, John Vanvalkenbnrg, in his testimony 
tAmtjtts printed in the HuutBville Daily Independent, Sunday, November 33, 1868^ oon- 
sisyoff of commnnicationst testimonials, &o., together with editorial matter acoom- 
piDjiDg the same, are as follows : 


We have been furnished for publication by the friends of Colonel yanvalkenburg|, with 
a large mass of testimony in refutation of the secret and cowardly attack which nras 
lak]y made upon him in this community. The attack was in the shape of an anony- 
mous cvoular. We have one of them before us, from which we extract enough to 
expose its slanderons and cowardly character : 

" lNDL\NAPOLis, INDIANA, September 80, 1868. 
""Toihe CUizens of North Alabama : 

""FELLOW-CrnzENS: Some days ago I walked into the office of a friend and picked 
op a HontsviUe paper, in which I saw what purported to be a speech made by one 
John VanvalkenlNirff, of Huntsville, formerly a citizen of Peru, Indiana, in which Jie 
mjti that he ( Vanvalkenburg) has been a democrat } that he sucked democratic milk ; 
aod (liat he still drinks democratic milk, and that he always expects to drink it, Soc. 

*' Judging from said speech, said John must be taking a prominent part in politics. 
Hivifig known said J<dm and his family for a number of years, and also his father 
aod family, I deem it my duty to inform the good people of Alabama that said John is 
jDst the kmd of a man that make good democrats up here. 

''Sone years ago said John was charged with a penitentiary offense in the State, 
from which he escaped by Joining the Regular Army, iu which he served five years as 
a soldier, 

"Said J<^n never had one drop of loyal blood in his veins ; he has been regarded as 
too bad a man to ever be cultivated into a gentleman. If he is now baimed with 
tk Eq-K1ux Klan or other desperadoes, he has at last found his natural element. 

** Said John, early in the late war, held a commission in the Twentieth Indiana In- 
&Qtry, finom which he was dismissed for treasonable luiguage. 

''The tacts upon which tliis statement is fouoded will be placed in the hands of the 
chairman of the republican executive committee of Alabama, so if any one doubts them 
they can be convinced by writing to him. 


"Published by authority.^ 

This infhmoos and cowardly document was put in the mail on the oars somewhere 
in Indiana, and circulated through the post-office in this community. No one knows 
where nor by whom it was writ^n nor when published. It is thought to have been 
eoueocted by some eowardly carpet-bagger in tnis community, and carried to Indiana 
to be mailed for the purpose of evadingdiscovery, exposure, and punishment. Colonel 
v., being a stranger here, naturally desires to repel ui attack which never would have 
betro TsMe in his own State and among his own people ; and if made could have been 
safely answered with *' the mild laughter of contempt." 

The large mass of documents in our possession, from which selection has been made 
for publication, do emphatically present Colonel Vanvalkenburg to this community as 
a brave soldier, a true patriot, and an honest gentleman. We do not think that any 
one heie baa ever given the slightest credence to his secret and cowardly enemies, yet, 
oevertheleaSy we publisb the foUowing in order '* to make assurance doubly sure:" 

Hkadquabtbrs Third Armt Corps, 
Camp near FakimUh, Virffinim, Febrmarp 19, 1863. 
Mt Dsab 8m: By aieoent order of tbePrendeat, from the War Department, CdOnel, 
John Vanvalkenbutg, Twentieth Indiana Volunteers, is dismissed fh>m the service of 
the Goverament for disloyalty and conduct nnbeooming a gentleman. 
Coleael Yaanralkenburg ciHumands a brigade in the second division, which witl^for^ ' 

51 A 


evor be aesociated with that of the braTe and lamented Kearney. Of the f aithfhl and 
gallant services of Colonel Vanvalkenbiurg yon will find abondant evidence in the te«- 
timoniala he will exhibit to you from his comrades in that division, with whom he 
haa shared the honors of many battles, and by the side of whom he was wounded. 
This officer has risen from the grmde of captain to his present rank and command, and 
General Bimey, who now commands the division, informs mo that he has no superior in 
the division for loyalty, courage, and good conduct. 

Ton will share the surprise and re^pret of those who know and esteem Colonel Van- 
valkenburg, that he has been dismissed without a trial', without a hearing j that he 
does not know, nor can any officer in the Array tell, what acts or words of nis are as- 
signed as the cause of this summary and terrible disgrace. 

Iliave commended this faithful and accomplished officer to you because lam sure 
you desire to see Justice done between him and the Government. I am sure there is no 
enttcieut ground for the hard fate to which he has been consigned ; and if not I need 
not appeal to you in his behalf— not only as your fellow -citizen, but as a soldier, he 
will have your heartv and powerful friendship. I think he should not only be 
promptly and honorably restored to his command, but he should be promoted. His ser- 
vices merit this recognition, and now it is due to him as a slight atonement for the 
wrong he has reccivSi. 
Faithfully, &c., 


Hon. Schuyler Colfax, M. C. 

Headquarters First Division, Third Corps, 

Belle Air, Febrttarg 20, 1863. 
General : Permit me to encroach so far upon military etiquette as to introduce to 
yon Colonel Vanvalkenburg. He visits Wasningtou to try and have the order dismis- 
sing him revoked. 

lean only say to yon that I regard him as one of the best offloers and soldiers in my 
division, and in restoring him your army will retain one of its truest officers and loyal 
The colonel only seeks an opportunity to meet the calumniators and the ealomny^ 
Your obedient servant, 


Briff^dim- GweraL 
li^jor General Joseph H. Hooker, 

Commanding Army of ike Potommc 

The letter from General Bimey is indorsed as foUowa : 

" Hbadquartbrs Cavalry Corps, Fdirman/ 9, 1863. 
" I could not have been more surprised had I read the order dismissing myscjf or &ny 
other officer in the service than I am at the order dismissing Colonel valvolkenbnrg. 
I had the honor to command the colonel for three months, and I can couscientionsly 
affirm there was no officer in whose loyalty, bravery, and integrity I had more confi- 
dence than in Ms, and I feel morally certain that there has been some misapprehen- 
sion, based upon misinformation, in the matter. 

'' Brigadier General, LaU Commanding Third Corpe."^ 

** The action of the authorities in regard to Colonel Vanvalkenburg is incomprehen- 
sible to his friends in camp. I can only think that there has been some mistake in 
this case. His loyalty has never been doubted by his brother o03cers, nor haa his 
soldiership been other than the proudest soldier might envy. No injurious suspicions 
are attached to his name in the Army. 

•* J. HOOKER, 
" Major General, CommanMng/' 

Headquartbbs Third Army Corps, Febrmnrg 19, 1863. 
My Dear 8m : Again I have to appeal to you for your good offices in behalf of a 
meritorioQB officer wbo has, I believe, been unjustly dealt with by the QoTetanent. 
Col6nel Vanvalkenburg, of this command, (commanding a brig^e,) has been dismissed 
the service for disloyalty and '*oondvct unbecoming a gentleman." He hate bad no 
hearing, knows not of the words or aeto charged against him, and in the noble divi- 
sion in which he has served— that of the lamented Kearney— every officer beam With 
ainazement and indignation of this extraordinary proceeding. Colonel Vaaval 


]»nbirs will Bbow yon evidenoe of his biflh and DBcbaUeoged standing in the aerVioe, 
aU«f whieh I indosse completely and without leeerve, and I beg your generous aid in 
bebalf of a gaUant and £uthful officer in his appeal lor justice. 

Brigadiir GeMraly Commandinj^ 
Hon. Iba Habris, 

Headquarters Cavalry Corps, F^^fruary 20, 1863. 
Dear Sir : Allow me to introduce to you my friend Colonel Vanvalkenburg, of the 
TwentieUi Indiana Volunteers. He has one of the finest re^ments in the servicoi 
and I have ever considered him one of the best commanders in tne Arm^. 

He will make his business known to you, and 1 hope you can find time to take the 
matter in band and will try to secure for him a hearing, when I feel assured he will 
come out all right ; if not, then I will say I have been more dccieved in the colonel 
than 1 ever was before bv any other person. 
I am, very respectuQly, &c., 


Brigadier General, 
Hon. Mr. Dunn, M. C. 

Headquarters Third Brigade^ First Division, Third Corps, 

Ctwtp JPitcher, Vtrginia, F^tmtary 19, 1863* 
General: I have jast learned with surprise that Colonel John Yanvalkenbnrg, 
Twentieth Indiana Yokinteer^ has been dismissed the service for disloyalty and con- 
doct unbecoming an officer ana a gentleman. I feel it due to this gallant officer, who 
bears honorable scars upon his person, received in support of our glorious cause, to say 
that I commiuided for some time the brigade to which the Twentieth Indiana is attached, 
and have served in the same division with Colonel Vanvalkenburg during the Peniu- 
eolar campaign) and that from my intercourse with him I have aver regarded him as 
particularly &ithful in the discharge of his duty, truly loyal to the Government, and 
one of the most efficient offic^a of his grade in the service. I confidently assert that 
Inmost Kallant division can boast of no more gallant or efficient regiment than the 
Twentieth Indiana. 

I have no idea of the allegations which have led to Colonel Vanvalkenburg's dis- 
iDissal, but bis distinguished services, past history, and soldier-like qualities bespeak 
for him a patient heanng. 

Very respectfully, your obedient servant, 

CoiUmd Thiriy-Seventh New T<n'Je Volunteers^ Commanding, 
General L. Thobias, 

Ai^tant General United States Army. 

Headquarters First Division, First Brigade, Third Corps, 

Dear Sir : Last evening the officers of the Twentieth Indiana held a meeting at 
tbese headquarters to take into consideration the resolutions— a copy of which you 
bave doabtleta •een^adoptad'by the Indiana soldiora of the Army of the Cumberland. 
The zosolntions were adopted as the sentiment of the officers of the Twentietb, 
{o4 tO'di^. will be submitrt^ t o the men, when the result will be forwarded to 

1 kfkn a^joonimenti and before the officers had retired, we < were informed that our 
^mnilt John VanvaULenburg^ at present commanding the brigade, had been dismissed 
»i9Hi/iee £Dr ^' disloyalty and conduct unbecoming an officer and a ^eutlemau.'' Had 
asBfiD esLploded in qui midst it would not have produced more surprise, so entirely un- 


expected was it> and bo ridioaloiis did it appear, tbat we at first were inollned t(» oon- 
sider it a Joke, bat it has proven too oetioi» for that. I write to seoore ytoi&r inflnecHM 
to obtain an Investigation of tlie matter, as it has been done so q[aietly that not a whis- 
per of it reached us nntii the order for dismissal was received. WeM there the 
least gronnd to believe the charges trae, I wonld be the last man to raise a voice in his 
favor. Bat having been in the same r^ment with him for over nineteen months, 
knowing him intimately, seeing him rise step by step from the rank of captain to colonel 
and brigade oonmiander. having foaght side by side with liim, been woanded in the 
same fight, and lain in tne same hopsitaly and never having seen the least sign from 
him of disloyalty and nngentlemanly conduct, I cannot belie vo the charges until they 
are openly and fairly proven, and ho has been given a chance to defend himselfl 

Onr regiment was raised principally in your and Mr. Colfax's districts— two com- 
panies from Foautain County, and one from Tippecanoe. 

Colonel Vaava^nborg same oat as captain of conq>any A. Being an old Mexican 
soldier, by his energy and efiftciency he has secured the full and entire confidence of the 
regiment, and rises to his present position. Do yon think, in a regiment where eveiy 
man was striving for promotion, tnat bo wonld have been jiermitted to rise so rapidly, 
if the slightest suspicion of disloyalty tainted his fair fame f Do you think the officers 
of the Twentieth woald have permitted a man who was guilty of nngentlemanly con- 
duct to be commissioned their colonel and not raise one single voice a^inst it f 

One of his first acts after taking command was to prevent the depletion of his regi- 
ment by unauthorized disoharses, which at that time were so numerous, and to arm 
and equip seventy-five men wuo bad been without arms so long that they had forgotten 
almost how to use them. 

Are such acts prompted by a disloyal heart ? 

Colonel VanviJkenbarg (then lieutenant colonel) was wounded in the battle before 
Richmond ou June 25, the first in which our regiment was engaged. Being unfit for 
service in the field, he was detailed on recruiting service in Indiana. Shortly after the 
death of Colonel Brown, at Bull Bun, he was ordered to the regiment, which he com- 
manded at the battle of Fredericlcsburgh. He was assigned commaud of the brigade, 
which he held until the receipt of this order, considered so unjust by his officers that 
they demand an investigation in which both sides may be heard. 
Most respectfully, your obedient servant, 

First Lieutenant, T^eeniiefh Indiana Volunteenf and Assititant Adfutant OenenU. 

Hon. Albbrt S. White. 

Hbadquabtbrs Second Brigade, First Division, Third Corps, 

Camp PitoheTf JMruatj 20, 1863. 
Colonel Vanvalkenburo: 

Dear Colokbl: A rumor has reached me that some person or persons have at- 
tempted to undermine your character as a soldier, and accused you of tbat most hid- 
eous of all crimes— disloyalty. Whether the rumor is true or false, I cannot peimifc 
the opportunitrf to pass and not express my sentiments in regard to the matter. Hav- 
ing been associated with you on many occasions since you Joined the division in firont 
of Riohmwond, I have had many opportunities to Jud^p of your character, and I do not 
believe a truer soldier of the Union exists in this division. 

The gallant service rendered by the regiment under ^our command, Twentieth Indi- 
ana, whose reputation is second to none, your wounds in the service of your country, 
speak in louder tones than I can, of your loyalty to our good cause. That the execa- 
tive of your State is confident of your patriotism, is exemplified by your recent pro- 
motion to the colonelcy of your regiment, in place of the lamented Colonel Brown, 
killed at Bull Run on the 2oth of August last. I sincerely hope the rumor is without 
foundation, both for your sake and that of the noble regiment you command. Under 
any circumstances yoq may command me. 
I am, sir, your obedient servant, 


Brigadier General, 

• The general and field officers present, of the Second Brigade, First Division, Thittl 
Corps, Army of the Potomac^ take pleasure in certifving that Colonel J. Vanvalken- 
burg, isle of the Twentieth Indiana, has ever shown hiuttelf a brave and efBoieu^ offi> 
cer, wo ^11 knowing Mb services, and the services of his command in the field* 

We als^ vouch fi>r nis loyaltr to the Government from a personal aoquaintaace wHh 
his speechNand action. Believing that his own personal sacrifice to the cause in which 
we are engaged shoald also conclusively prove bis devotion to the Constitution and 
the count^, and also feeling a deep interest in the maintenance of the character of 

ALABAMA — 8U3-OOiOfITTB£. 809 


our Aimy, we most unec^mvocally state that Colonel Yanvalkenbiirg is in eyery partio- 
Bltf. both civil and militacy. qualified for the poaitioii he filled. 


Brigadier General 
Cehnei Fowik Mis8<mri Volunteers 
LktOenamt C^Umei, commanding Fifhf-eewmik Penneylvania VeAnnleere, 

CoUmeL oomman^^ Ninetw^tinth Penneyhania Volunteen. 
JAeuUnani Colonel Nkiehf-ninth Penneylvania Volunteers. 
lAeutCMmt CoiUmd JJtirtv-eiohth Begiment New Torit, 
Mqhr Thirty-eighth Begiment New York. 
LimOmumt Colonel Fortieth New York. 

Major Fortieth New TorJc. 
LientetMHt CoUmd Third Misoonri Volunteers. 

Hraikiuartrrs Twentieth Indiana Volunteers, 

Camp Pitcher, Virginia, February 27, 1863. 
8m : *nie dismissal of Colonel Vanvalkenharg, of this regiment, for <' disloyalty " 
sod ^ conduot unbecoming an officer and a gentleman," was as anexpected to the reg- 
iment as that you should uim traitor. My acquaintance with him has been intimate 
for the past twenty months, and I haye for the first time to hear or see anything in 
Mm Hiat tends to disloyalty. On the contrary, I haye no hesitancy in saying I believe 
be IS as loyal and ^ood a soldier as we have in the service. It must be that there is 
some mistake or dishonesty in some qnarter, and I ask as a friend that you help him 
to^ a hearing, either by court of inquiry, court-martial, or in some other way by 
'Which he may have a hemring. I think it no more than just that a man have a chance 
to defend himself. 

Respectfully, yours, 

Lieutenant Colonel Twentieth Indiana Begiment. 
Hon. S. Coi^AX, Member of Congress, 

Heapquartebs First Brigade, First Division, Third Corps, 

Camp Pitcher, near Falmauthf February 20, 1863, 
Oenebai. : We, the undersigned, field officers of the First Brigade, First Division, 
Third Corps, Army of the Potomac, having heard, with deep regret and utter astonish- 
ment, that Colonel Vanvalkenborg, Twentieth Indiana Volunteers, commanding this 
Itrigade, has been dismissed the tJulted States seryice for disloyalty and conduct vnbo- 
coming an officer and a gentleman, be^ leayo to state that in our intercourse with him 
we have had every reason to believe him a gallant soldier, a firm patriot, and a perfect 
gentleman. We have served in the same brigade with Colonel Yanvalkenburg for tho 
past twentv months, and part of this time have been under him as brigade commander, 
and never nave we, by any word or deed of his, seen cause to doubt his loyalty. 
We are, ffeneraL very respectfully, 


Major One hundred and fifth Pennsylvania Volunteers*. 
Colonel Sixty-eighth Pennsylvania Volunteers. 

Major Sixty-eighth Pennsylvania Volunteers. 
Colonel One hundred and forty-first Pennsylvania Volunteers. 
Lieutenant Colonel Twentieth Indiana Volunteers. 

A. A. Mcknight, 

Colonel One hundred, and fifth Bhode Ishnd Volmteers^ 
Colonel One hundred andfourieenth Pennsylvania VolnnXeers, 

Major One hundred andfourieenth Pennsylvania Volunteers. 
Lieutenant Colonel Sixty-third Pennsylvania Volunteers, 


HEABQUABTERd ThHid BRIGADE, February 21 y 1965. 
We, the undersigned, officers of this brigade, understanding that Colonel Van valken- 
burg has been dismissed the service for disloyalty and conduct unbecoming an officer 
and a gentleman, feel it due to him to say that we have been connected with him in. 
the same division, commanded by General Blmoy, and formerly well known as " Kear- 
ney's Division/' and can bear testimony to his distinguished services as an officer and 
soldier; that this gallant division can boast of no more daring or more efficient regi- 
ment than the Twentieth Indiana Volunteers. Wo have never in our intercourse with 
Colonel Yanvalkenburg had any reason to believe that his conduct was not a true index 
of his feelings, and we now urgently represent that Colonel Vanvalkenburg's eminent 
qualities as a soldier, his distinguished services in the field, and the wound he has re- 
ceived in the service, bespeak tor him a patient hearing of his case. 

Colonel Thirty-ftevcnUh New York Volunteers, 
Lieutenant Colonel First Begim^ni New York Volunteers. 
Major First New York Volunteers. 
Lieutenant Colonel Third Maine Volunteers. 
Major Third Michigan Volunteet^s. 
Lieutenant Colonel Thirty-seventh New York Volunteers. 
Major ThiHy-seventh Netc York Volunteers. 
Major Fifth Michigan Volunteers. 
Major Seventeenth Maine Volunteers. 
Colonel Third Michigan VolunteerB. 

Headquarters First Division, Third Corps, 

Belle Air, Ft^uary 20, 1863. 

8iB : The dismissal of Colonel Yanvalkenburg, Twentieth Indiana, for disloyaltv and 
conduct unbeoomine an officer and a gentleman, has astonished this division. He has 
distinguished himself as an efficient and gallant officer, and I cannot believe the charges 
are based on truth. I regard his regiment as equal in discipline, efficiency, and coar* 
age. to any in the Army. 

May I ask that his case be referred to the board of revision, or a board of inquiry be 
granted him f I am convinced that he will show the charges against him to be falae, 
malioions in fact ; utterly so. 

I am your obedient servant, 

Brigadier General^ Commanding Divisio^t. 
Hon. E. M. Stanton, 

Secretary of War, JVashhgton, D. C. 

Camp Pttoher, Virginia, 

February 19, 1863. 

Colonel \^ohn Yanvalkenburg, of the Twentieth Indiana Volunteers, having beeu 
dismissed t^^ service for '* disloyalty and conduct unbecoming an officer and a ^q tie- 
man," withoLjt tri^ and without notice to him of charges, now, therefore, we, t£e offi- 
cers of the T^Bi?'^*^®*^ Indiana Regiment, hereby certify that we have never seen any 
J^ot, norheardlft^y^^P^®®®^*^^ of Colonel van valkonbui^, which could le3fl us to believe 
him disloyal tot '^® Government of the United States, or unfaithful to his duties as a 


lo!^ mnn and ffood soldier | also that his conduct as an officer and gentleman has been 
fiillj equal to the efflceis wi^ whom we are acquainted in the service. 

Lieutenant CefonelJktentietk Indiana Volunimn. 
Swrpeon Ikpentieih Indiana Foiuntemrs. 
J. W. HART, 
QuartermoBtet Tweiiiie^h Indiana VbUmleen. • 


Assistant Surge&n, 

Captain dmf&mi B» • 

Captain Campann H. . 
. TH08. C. BROWN, . 

Captain Company K, 

Captain Compftnw.D* 
First Lieutenant Company G. 
First Lieutenant Company E, 
First Lieutenant Company K. 
• First Lieutenant Ompany D, 

First lAeutenant Company F. 
First lAeutenant Company K, 
Second lAeutenant Cow^Mmy D, 
Second lAeutenant Company F, 
Second Lieutenant Company K, 
Second Lieutenant. Commanding Company L 
Sergeant^ Commanding Company A, 
Second lAeutenant Company O, 

.Second Lieutenant Comptmy K, 

[Genenl Ordart No. 39.] 

War Depabtmbnt, Adjutant General's Office, 

February 10, 1883. 
L Colonel J. Vanvalkenber^, Twentieth Indiana Yolonteers, is, by the order of the 
President, diamiesed the service of the United States, for disloyalty to the Government, 
and conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. 
By order of the Secretary of War. 

A^utant Oenerdl, 

Headquarters First Brigade, First Division, Third Corps, 

March 22, 1863. 

Assistant Adjutant General. 

Extracts from newspapers. 

^ offleers and soldiers of the Twentieth Regiment Indiana Volunteers, and the 
P^ofile^f this and the adyoining counties, well recollect with what bitter rancor Oolouel 


J. Yanyalkeuberg was paiaaecl during the ii«ie lie vat m tiM If^idMa] aemM^i c» l c i fc t l 
of that regiment, and the underhanded and unBcrupuloos meaiMi Uied hy hit peli^ki^ 
enemies to secure his dishonorable disoharijrefrom the service, because be chose to exer- 
cise the rights of a fireeniaa and vote his sentiments at the ballot-box. Justice, some- 
times slow, but always certain, has at least fixed the brand of shame opon his perse- 
coten, and revoked the foul order by which they sought to* sully his &ir fame ob a 
gentleman and a soldier. On Monday last the colonel received a copy of the follow- 
ing Mdar from tiie War Department : 

ISpedal Order No. tM, Sztract 4.J 

War Department, Adjutant Qeneral's OFricB, 

WoHhiKiUm, April VCI, 186X 
By direction of the President, so much of General Orders No. S9, series of 1863, from 
this oflke, as dismissed Colonel John Vanvalkenberff, Twentieth Indiana VoluuteerB, 
is hereby revoked, and he is honorably discharged the service as ^i the date of said 
By order of Uie Secretory of War. 

E. D. T0WN8END, 

AwisUiMi AdhUant OeneraU 

ABBistant Adjutant General. 

Sloi^ and surely ISiings are righting themselves. The prison-doors are being on- 
barred to the victims of arbitrary arrest. The slimy slanders of political persecutors 
are being lifted from their victims, and dashed in the faces of their originators, and 
tiiiie, the great regulator of human events, ig setting all things right. 

Executive Departmbkt, 

Indianapolis, Marck 9, 1866. 
T« vaUmm U may cenoem : 

The bearer hereof, John Vanvalkenberg, a loyal citizen of this State, wishes to 
visit Naahville, Tennessee, for the purpose of transacting business. I respectfiilly re- 
quest ^at he may be permitted to pass. Any favors shown him will be appreciatod. 


Governor i/ Indiana, 

Peru, Indiana, October 8, 1868. 

Dear Bie : Tours of ihe 5th instant, in relation to Colonel John Vanvalkeobergr, 
fomeiiy of this place, is this moment received. I am very much surprised at the dr* 
cular von speak of. Its reference to me is wholly without authority. I was a nei^- 
bor of Colonel Y. for several years. His family and mine were on intimate terms, and. 
I take pleasure in bearing testimony to their moral standing in this city. Colonel V. 
was a rough sort of a man in his lan^age, as he doubtless yet is, but I never heard of 
his having been a Jail-bird, or anything of that kind, and am satisfied that any state- 
menta to that effect are slanderous and untrue. Colonel Y. early in the war took out 
a company in the Twentieth Indiana Regiment, was afterward promoted to the ranlc 
of colonel. He was afterward dismissed the service, rumor said for disloyalty, but I 
think after the close of the war he got an honorable discharge. This is the worst I 
ever be^ against him. Many of us disliked his politios, but I have no hesitation in 
saying as a citizen and a man he came up to the general standard of Indiana demo* 
crats. I have never seen or heard anything derogatory to Colonel Y. that yon woald 
not ihid out in a very short acquaintance. He has a most estimable flEunily. 


F. It Taylor, Esq., SuntnUle, Alabama, 

P. 8.— Will you be Idnd enough to send me a copy of |he oiroolar yon refer tof 

Montgomery, October 8, 1868. 
8ir : Tours without date is Just received. I am as ignorant of the anlbori^ of 
the ekcular as you are ; and I will say further that I utterly condemn all such pcao- 


tieefk^wne £ttv wh«b Miuoe tbej^ Maj. The republican party is not a party of vitu- 
pecMioa or defamation. 

Tours, Yery remeotfdllyi 

Clurirman SxeciUim Cgmmi i im . 

Fbbxj, Induva, Navmbir 7, 1866. 
John Vanvalkenbecg, eaq^ the bearer of thie letter, hai» lor the past eishte«i years, 
lived in this eity ; is bow about dianging his residence to HuntsTille iUabama. Mr. 
V. ii a high-toned, honorable gentleman, a good neighbor, good citisen, and kind- 
beaited man. We cordially reeoBuneod him to oor sonthem brethren, and assure them 
Uttt in Mr. V. they hams a trae and watfinehhtg friend. 
Ve^y fcw ae^fuUy, 

N. O. ROSE. 

I most heartily concur in all that is here said in behalf of Colonel Vanvalkenberg. 
He is a reliable and upright man. I have known him long, and highly esteem htai. 


I am personally acquainted with Colonel Yanyalkenberg, and esteem him a worthy, 
osn/and will always be gratified to hear oft his prosperity. 

United States Senator of Indiofui, 

1 concur fully with Mr. Hendricks. Colonel V. is worthy, deserving success, and, I 
tragi, will obtain it. 


ex^nator of Indiana. 

Wie have many other emally emphatie testimonials in our possession Ar<im a lar^e 
noioher of gentlemen distingaished in oivii and military life ; but we have no space to. 
pubhsh them^ nor do we deem it at all necessary. 

Coional V. has honorable and flatterine testimonials fh>m the ancient Order of Odd 
Fellows, of which society he has been a diBtinguished member since 1852. We are sure 
be snd his family will sherish all these appreciative and complimentary papers, and 
proudly ti^ansnrit them as an honorable inheritance to their children. 

Ihey are too valuable to be lost and too sacred to be soiled bv the foul breath ot 
Biandsr. We can assure him that he has not been at all injured, but rather benefited, 
^tids araeraiiMi of his enemies. Doubtless his modest worth would not have been so 
gonndly Imowm but for this dastardly attack upon his character. There is a moral in 
^ Aia We cannot oonclnde this publication without expressing our utter scorn and 
coBtempt not only for this cowardly slauder, but for the slanders of the negro radical 
pttty in Mteral. 

Since the snrrender, that party has used but one efficient weapon in the South, and 
that Is wholesale, unjustified, unmitigated, slimy slander in reference to the men and 
OMiivea and measures of this section : '* They lie, and lie freely." Let a man, a com- 
QnffiHy, aState held to democratic constitutional principles, and there is no lie too vile 
and aowaidly for their wicked and miserable purposes. 

Ooteari ▼• has emphatically answered and exi>o8ed the one in reference to hiiuself. 
Who win h« next attacked f The other day a whole mail-bag of poisoned i)amphlets 
vess deposited for circulation with a carpet-bag official in this eity, filled with basest 
and blackest lies against the most respectable gentlemen in this State and section. 
These publications are secret and anonymous, and nobo<1y can be found responsible for 
tbem. But they are all published in the interest of radicalism and claim upon their face 
to be ^ by aatboiity." it is a crying shame. It is intolerable and must not be tol- 

The radical aesastrias who do this dietardly work ou^ht to be treated as assassins 
whenever they are discovered. They should be draggea from their secret lairs and 
brought to the bar of justice. It is the duty of decent people to protect themselves 
from the persistaat and cowardly perseoutioi^ 

Digitized by VjOOQ IC 


Huicravxtus, Alabama, 0<Mer 13/ 1871. 


The Chairman. I desire to lay before the committeo certain letters which I have 
received to-day in response to an inquiry which I sent from this place relative to tiie 
character and standing of the Rev. A. S. Laklli in the commumty in which he lived 
before he came to Alabama. The first letter I submit to the committee is from the 
Bev. Mr. G^llam, pastor of the Methodist Episcopal church at Logansport, Indiana. I 
am acquainted with Mr. Gillam, and know him to be a very respeotj^le gentlcnan. 
Logansport is also the place of my residence, and is eighteen miles from Peru, Indiana, 
where Mr. Lakin formerly lived. On the back 

Mr. Blair. I will interpose an objection to the reading off that letter, or its use as 
evidence, because the man himself who wrote it can be reached and brought before the 
committee ; and it has been abjudicated in the general committee that a paperof the 
kind cannot be introduced where we have no opportunity of cross-examining the 
writer, and I submit thttt it is not evidence. The witness should be called himself. 

The Chairman. That objection will eo upon the record. 

Indorsed upon the back of Mr. Gillam's letter are certain certificates, one from Mr. A. 
M. Gibson, whose handwriting I am acquainted with, a gentleman of good stancUng 
Anotitier from W. A. Black, a highly respectable Methodist c^entleman living in Logans^ 
port, with whom I am well acquainted. Another is signed by J. W. McCaughey, an old 
gentleman of high standing in LogansxK)rt. There is another ftt>m 8. B. Richardson, a 
citizen of excellent character in Logansport, and likewise a Methodist. 

The next letter I desire to lay before tne committee is firom the Bon. Jadies N.Tyner, 
a member of Congress from the eighth congressional district of Indiana. He was 
elected as my successor when I was transferred to the Senate. He lives at Pern, 
Indiana, and is a gentleman of high respectability and character. 

The next letter that I desire to lay before the committee is dated Pern, Indiana, 
October 9, 1871, addressed to me and signed by several gentlemen who live in Pern and 
its vicinity. Among them is Mr. Tyn^, also James M. Brown, a lawyer of good stand- 
ing, for a long time oneof the editors of the Peru Republican ; Jonas Hoover, who was 
formerly, I believe, sheriff (^ that county; W. H. Deniston, a name that I am familiar 
with. He is a merchant there, I believe. Also, Charles Spencer, who is a business 
man in good standing) whom I have known twenty-five years ; D. R. Bearss, one of the 
wealthiest men in Miami County, living in the edge of Peru. He has been State sen- 
ator. Anotlier signer is G. J. Reed, who is the editor of the Peru Bepablioan, the only 
republican pt^er published I believe in the county, a very respectable gentleman. 
Another signer is J. Colclazer, who I think is pastor of the Methodist church at Pern. 
He was formerly pastor of that church at Logansport. I have known him fiir m great 
many years. He is a gentleman of good standing. Anothei is Dr. G. JEL Qnick^ a 
physician of high character, very respectable, living at New Waverly, a few miles below 

Mr. Blair. My objection, which I wi^ to be noted^ to the reception of any of these 
letters or certificates, is that the parties are all within reach of the subpcsna of tho 
committee, and not being produced in person we have no means of cross-examining; 
them and testinj^ their knowledge and truthfulness by asking them in respect to other 
matters about this man Lakin. 

Mr. Rice. I should suppo9e these certificates were as good as those yon offored con- 
cerning Mr. Yanvalkenburg. 

Mr. Slair. The character of that gentleman is not assailed. 

Mr. Rice. Mr. Lakin is assailed. 

Mr. Blair. Similar papers were produced before the committee when takins testi- 
mony in Washington, whereupon I made the objection, and they were excluded, mon 
the ground that tnere was no opportunity given to cross-examine the witnetsea, wfaiek is 
one of the tests of truth, as every one who practices law very well knows. 

The Chairman. A great part of the testimony submitted by your own wiUieMoa 
generally has been purely hearsay. 

Mr. Blair. I know that, and I know also that the minority of the committea m- 
fused to exclude that sort of testimony, but availed themselves of it, and ef course 
could not refuse it to the other portion of the committee after taking the benefit 
of it themselves ; but in a case exactly similar to this they refused to admit such Ustters 
as evidence. I make the objection. I do not expect it t0 prevaiL * 

The Chairman. Do you wish a vote taken t 

Mr. Blair. I do, and I want the ayes and noes. 

The Chairman. After the explanation I have made as to the manner in which thecio 
communications came to be addressed to me, and the character of the men who haye 
signed them, the proposition is now submitted to you whether they shall ^ upon<>ux 
minutes as part of the evidence Digitized by GoOg IC 


Tto qQCBfeimi beine* upon the admissiMi 6f the aboye-mentioned papers, the ayes aad 
noes were taken, and resulted : 
Ayes— Messrs. Buckley, Rice, and the efasimiaii. 
Noes— Mr. Blair. 

^ tike papers were ordered to be inserted in the testimony. 
The dooHBMiitB referred to are as follows : 

LooANfiPORT, Indiana, October 10, 1871. 

Uma. Bib : Your letter of inquiry came to hand yesterday, and I hasten at once to 
coUeet the flM^te in the case and forwaid ^em to you. 

Several of the leading members of my ohmoh, as W. A. Black, J. W. McCaughey, A. 
M. Gibson, S. B. Richaidson, and others, are well acquainted with Mr. Lakin, and say 
that he left here with a character unimpeachable. A report followed him here from 
▼here he came from to the effect that he had seduced a young lady ; but the whole 
matter was settled ; he was found innocent and acquitted, though there never were any 
foimal ehargea preferred against him, that I can find out, only rumor aod report, and 
this aU gaye way. He was neyer suspended by his own conference in the East, so far 
as 1 can ascertain, and he neyer Joined this conference ; but one of our bishops trans- 
f(irrcd him to Alabama, as we underst>and it here, which is eyidence that he wa^ not 
Bomended, and also that he was in good standing in confereu^, for a bishop would not 
and oould not teansfer him while he was nnder oensnre. 

TlkB My Defeired to has sinoe died, and on her death-bed entirely acquitted him, 
declaring the report was without foundation. As Mr. Lakin lived at Peru, Mr. Gibson 
went up there to ascertain all the facts in the case. They say there that no man iu 
Peru stiuids higher and fairer than Mr. Lakin. They say the report referred to had 
BO foundation in truth. He was pastor of one of the charges m Peru part of the 
tMie. while ha liyed titiere. He also preached in Logaosport several times; staid with 
W. A. Black several nights ; Black says he is a first-class man. A. M. Gibson was in 
bttfilDess with him for some time ; he is writing a letter to yon and will furnish some 
adfUftieaid pacCicnlMs. 

N. aiLLAM, 
Pastor M. E, Ckurck, Logtmtportf In^ana. 

Ebm. D. D. Pratt. 

[Indoned on the back.] 

We, the undersigned, certify that the statements in the within letter are true to the 
best of our knowledge. 


All of the fbl^going is correct and tme of the Bev. Mr. A. S. Lakin, and when I say 
tliak he aaataiiiea a ehasaeter that Iras unimpeachable, I say but the bare truth. 


A. LaUn i» Uke the gold tried in the fire and not found wanting. 


No man could be jnare cliaate than Mr. Lakin while here. 


Peru, Indiana, October 9, 1871. 
Dkar Sir : During the time Rev* A. S. Lakin lived here I did not hear a whisper 
against hia character, except from democrats, who didn't like his extreme radicalism. 
He stood weU in the chnrch, and was for a long time an acceptable pastor of the lead- 
iag MalJbodiat Epiactopal ^hnreh in the oity. No man, so far as I know, questioned his 
veradty. and an attempt to discredit kxs testimony before a court would have been an 
otter fittlare. 

Tenrs, truly, 

Hoo- D. D. Pratt, 

HunttvUle, AlabamiL 

Peru, Indiana, October 9, 1871. 
HobL D. D. Pratt, United States Senate : 

l^v. A. 8. Lakin, now of Alabamh, came to this place about 1859, and remained here, 
except during his absence in the United States military service, until lii65 or 1866. 


During hi* resid^noe bete, m period of eix or MfTon years, hit oonteet was inapMaeb- 
able aM his obaraotergooid. He was an acceptable pastor of uae of tbe obnNbaa iMM^ 
and was considered an npright^ Christian gentleman. 
YonrS; tmly, 

Cha& fi^ncxB. JkML IL BavwM. 

D. B. Bbarss, J. T. Bauoo. 

G. J. Rbsd. JoKAfl Boormm, 

J. COLCLAZSR. J. U. liAim. 

J. A. FoBGT, (Now Wftvctly.) W. H. Dmnmm. 
C. R. QmoK. iLfliiloOuaiiiii. 

Jab. N. Ttmbb. 

HuNT10VILU^ ATi4miifi, aoMw Bi^ i83X 
JOSEPH GILXi (colored) sworn and csLamined. 

By theCHAiRMiJ^: 

Question, Where do yon live f 

Answer. My home is in Arkansas. I was m here last Wedacada y waak aad al aH i i d 
home, and Mr. Warwkk stopped me and saia I bad to ap)pear bete; then Mr. QMen 
came to me. 

QmeiUom. What is your age f 

Answer. I'ifty-one on the lOthof Maosb. 

QnesUoH. Have yon been whipped by tbeKo-Klax f 

Answer. Yes, sir; two hundred lashes^ and shot at two times. Tbaak God^tb^dMbkH; 
bit me. 

QitesUon. When was that f 

Answer. In 1868. They broke me np and made me leave my heoMi Th^ wops b e md 
to kill me, and I went to Arkansas. 

Question. Where were yon whipped f 

Answer. On Briar Forks, Madison Coonty. 

Question. How many men camef 

Answer. Abont twenty or twenty-flve. 

Question. Were they disguised f 

Answer. Yes. sir ; horses and all. 

Question. What time of night was it T 

Answer. About 12 o'clock at night. 

Question. How many lashes did tbsy adminislcr to yon t 

Answer. There were throe of them whipped me with a doable strap, aad whm. ihe^ 
bit me a bnadred they felt of me and saia ** Get ap.'' 

Question. What was your offense for which they whipped yoo f 

Answer. They said I font the white men. They eame te take mj bswe, b«t I kept 
them off of my horse. That was Tuesday evening, and Saturday night about mid&igbt 
they came. 

Question. What did they mean by your having fooi^ wbite msd f 

Answer. Because I wouldn't let them take my horse. 

Question. Had disguised men come to take your horse f 

Ansu}er. No, sir; they were not disguised. 

Question. On what ground did they claim your horse f 

Answer. They said they wanted him for a charger to ride to hell. I tell it te yoa 
Just like tbey repeated it to me. 

Question. Were you ever whipped at any other time f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question, When were you shot f 

Answer. They never shot me, but at me, about » montii after tiiat. I was IrrlM te 
keep them from me. I thank God they didn't bit me. 

Question. Were they disguised men f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qumtkm. Was it in the day-time f 

Answer. No, sir ; at night. 

^Question. How many were there f 

Answer. There was four of them. 

Question. You say they were after year horse then f 

Answer. Yes. sir, and swore they meant to have bim. I bad two of tiiem. 

Question. What did they want him for f 

Answer. They said they wanted bim for a cbaiger to ride to h^ He wjM a in{|^ 

"ciSSST To ride bim in disguise f ° ^'^'^'^ '^ GoOglC 


r. Tft n^ h^m to hell. fb»y said tiray came fnm hell, and wanted to ride 

kmk %9 helL They said they had cooriers come from hell nine times a day, and they 

wanted that hone to toat them. 
Quertiom, Did they erer visit yonr honse at any other time f 
iwmr. Tee, sir ; a hundred and fifty and two hundred at a time, 
gsn lfo w . In what yeart 

JflMMTi Is IMS and 1869. 

QuttittL What was the object of tiieir vifllting your house at these tfanes f 

Amwar. After sons and money. 

CsiitiiSb Did &ey search yonr house for i^nnsf 

Ammar. O, titoy busted my tmsk all to pieces. , 

QuetHon, Did they find any arms t 

Antmr, No, sir. 

Quertkm, The^ wanted money also f i 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

QmiHom, Did tbey find any moneyf 

An$wer, No, sir ; we kept that out of the way. 

QuetUon. Dia they do you any harm ? 

Afuwer. No, sir; nothing more than whipping me. That was the biggest harm they 

%»mthn. They whipped tou once f 

Amwen Only onee, oat shot at me alter that. I know the men who done that. 

Qmtiion, Are they living there yet f 

Atuwer. Thev were living up here. Toung Parks Tewnsend and Maoion Burkes. 

Quetftion, Did they order yon to leave the country at any time f 

Antwer. Yes, sir ; they told me if I didn't leave they would ti&e my lift. When the 
woods ffot ipraen they would get my horse and all. 

9«e»ttoa. YOU left because of this threat f 

Aimoer. Yes, sir; and went to Arkansas. 

Q mt H otL How long did you stay f 

Antwer. I made two crops in Arkansas with this one. 

(iuesHon. When did yon come back T 

An$wer. It has been six weeks ago. I came back to collect some money fbr this 
proper^ I had sold out. 

QuaUon, Do you know of any other colored men in that part of the eounty who 
were visited by the Ku-Klux t 

Antwer. No, sir; I don't. 

QuetHon* Were there many colored men living at Brier Fork f 

Anewer. O, yes, sir ; a good many. 

Queflion. Do you know any of them whose houses were visited to see if they had 

iiMtrer. Yes, sir. On Mr. Walker's pkataMon I moImii at least tfaix^ hauass. Tlisy 
are in town now, living here. 

^Kertkm. Did they have guns f 

Mumr. Yes, sir. 

QMetHan. Did the Ku-Klux take them away from tbomf 

Amwer. Yea, sir,.giiA8 and yifMs. 

QueeHan. Did the Ku-Klnx whip any of them T 

Antwer. No, sir ; they beat one of the men over the head with a pistoL 

QfuttUm. What was their oliject in gatheiing op all the guns f 

Antwer. I don't know. 

Qm tkiu * What becmae of the guns! 

Antwer. Those that were not of much account they Just broke thsan arosttd the 
stomps and trees, and good ones they took ofl;. 

QuitUon. You say these men were all in disguise f 

Antwer. Yes, sir, horses and all. 

QumHm . Can vou describe the disguisest 

Antwer. Yes, sir. 

QneiUon. You may da it. 

^wwer. They had gowns on just like your overcoat, that came down to the toes, and 

would be red and some black, like a lady's dtess, only open before. The hats 
were made of pi^r, and about eighteen inches long, and at the top about as tlnek ae 
yoQT ankle; and down around the eyes it was bound aiound like horsoKKivers, and dn 
the BMOth there was hair of some description, I don't know what. It looked like a 
.mnstache, coming down to the breast, and you ooukUt't see none of the £Me, nor noth- 
^g? you couldn't see a thing of them. * 

Q^mk im . Did they have horns ? 

jfat f rer . Some of them had horns about as long as my finger, and made Maok. 

Qwtkon. Who did these men say Uey were! Pigiti,3^ by GoOglc 


Answer, Tb^ sftid tb^ came isom bell ; tbat tbey died at Sbiiok figlit and JBoIl 

Qtiestion, What did they come here for T 

Atisuser. They said they came back to give every roan bis rights; 

Question, Did they have auythinft to say about radioals t • 

Anstcer, They throwe<l np tne radical party to us a great deal ; tbat we weio daaoad 
radicals, and men that were in the Army they said were damned Yaulsees, aod £mHs^t 
against them, luid they wanted to give tbem justice. 

Question, Did they say anything about the negroes voting f 

Anstoer, Yes, sir ; they said that if tbey come here to HnntavUle, wbait tbey would 
do. They just rode plamly, like yon are, and said tbat if tbey came and votea against 
them what would oecome of them ; that they shouldn't live on the laoda^ tiiey 
would drive them away, and this, that, and the other, and tbey might go to the Yan- 

Question, What did they say of the Yankees t 

Answer, They didn't have much to say about tbem. 

Question. Did they have anything to say about carpet-baggers ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, What? 

Answer, They said these damned carpet-baggers were going through the coaQtry 
fooling us all. 

Question, Did tbey sav tbey were determined you colored should not vote f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; a thousand times: but we would override tbat. A great many 
voted, and a great many feaxed to ana didn't. 

Question. In what part of Arkaosas have you been living f 

Answer, Phillips County. 

Question. Is it very peaceable there T 

Answer. Just as quiet as a lamb, sir/ 

By Mr, Bucklbt : 
Question, Did yon serve in the Union Army f 

Answer, No, sir; I was with tbem. I traveled witb tbem but was not m soldier* or 
anything of the kind. I went around with tbem, and waited on tbem for protectipn. 

By Mr. Rick : 
QueeUon. Were you a dave befbre the war t 
Answer, Yes, sir. 
Question, In this State f 

Answer. Yes, sir : in Madison County. No: I am too fbst. In Morgan County, but 
all in this State. The river divided them— tne Tennessee River. 

By Mr. Blair: 

Question, Ib what year wa« it that you were whipped on Brier Pork t 

Answer. Eighteen hundred and sixl^-eight. 

Question, Were the men disguised f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, What were their nameaf 

Answer, O, you are too bard for me, sir. I can't tell that I oooldn't me thefr faee» 
to tell who they were. 

Questiiom, How many of them were there f 

Answer, I think there waa twenty or tweoty-five that Whipped Bie. 

QuMfion, YoQ say you were sboi atf 

Answer, Yes, sir, five times ; but, thank God, they didnt liit me. They hit my dor. 

QuMtiUm, When waathatf ^ ^ 

Answer. About a month afterward. 

Quss^on, Who else did yon say shot at you f 

Answer, Mr. Parks Townsend and Marion Burkes. 

Question, Were tbey disguised ? 

Answer, Yes, sir; they were, horses and all. 

Qweslion, How did you reoognize them f How did yon know them f 

Answer, When they were sbootioff at me I knew them by their fiiees: they tlit«w 
the oloHis up from their fiaoee, and then I knew vbe4r voices. I lived witn Mr. Town- 
send l>eing near twelve months, and tbat was the next year. 

Question, Where does Mr. Townsend livef 

Answer He lives out at what is called McDavid's old mill, about two miles fttym tfa« 
line of Tennessee and this county, on the FayetteviJle road. 

Question, Marion Burke, whore does be live f 

Answer. He was living there, himself and his father. His father was a blaokaniHili. 

Question, Are both of theae m«n in this county now f t 

Answer, I don't know. I have been gone away from here you •ee.30QlC 

Question. Were there any others with tbem at the time f 


^NMifr. Ther^ was anotiber gentleman with them, btit I didn't know who he was. 
He staid back in the dark. 

QwrntUm, Was it at night T 

Antwer, Yes, sir ; aboit midmgfat Satnrds^ night. They got some fbnr or five gons 
that nighty and broke two or throe, and carried olf a donble-barreled ^un belonging to 
TemA^erson ; and they told Mr. Walker's people that I was shot and in the b^, bat, 
tfasak God, they didn't hit me ; that's one blessing. I saved that shot, bnt they hit 
my dog. I was very thankfhl that they didn't hit me. They tdd at Mr. Walker's that 
1 was shot— the colored population did. 

QKSIkm. What Mr. WMkerf 

jkmMT. Mr. Pope Walkei^-the colored men living on his plantation. He is a law- 
yer; and lives in town here. 

HuNTSVELLE, ALABAMA, October 12, 1871, 
WILLIAM RICHARDSON sworn and examined. 

The Chairman. As Mr. Richardson was called as a witness at the request of the 
minority of the committee, his examination may bo conducted by you,' GeUerml Blair. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question. State how long yon have lived in Alabama, Mr. Richardson. 

Answer, Well, sir, I was bora and reared in this State, in the a^oining county of Lime- 

(iuestiou. How old are yon now f 

Answer. I am thirty-two years old. 

Question. What is your present oocupation f 

Answer. I am a lawyer. 

Question. What county do you practice in f 

Answer. The county of Madison. 

Qneetioiu Were' you in the arm^ during the war f 

Answer. I was, sir ; in the oonlederate armjr. 

QneatioH. State, if you please, whether, prior to the breaking out of the war, you 
took any side in the controversy. 

Answer. I had Just graduated at college about the time that the excitement broke out 
relative to the war. I came back home^ and was then quite a young man. I did take 
quite an active part at that day and tmie, and indorsed and adapted the prevailing 
Union sentiments of North Alabama. That was the guiding influence of my life, ana 
aa lueh a yonng man, full of all that impetus and impulse that young men had at that 
time, 1 heartily indorsed what was oaUed the co-operation, or Union view of the mat- 
ter. I was very much opposed to the secession of the State of Alabama, and did not 
•prove the plan by which it was done. I thought it would be voted down if sub- 
mitted to the people; looked upon the manner in which it was conducted as a 
great wrong upon the rights of the people of this State, and I so considared the 
vote on the ordinance of seoession. After the State seceded there was a great deal 
of bitterness in my county of Limestone upon the question of the policy of secession. 
I was among those who were advocates oi co-operation for the purpose of preventing 
ietMuaoDu I was vety young, and knew but little about poHtics, but I imbibed the 
principles and views of my £ther upon that subject, and doubtless was a great deal less 
prodeat on the subject than he was* I remember distinctly, aa an evidence of my own 
participation in the matter^ to have made a Union speech, sir. 

QumUan, On what occasion f 

Answer. On the 2Sd of February, on Wadiington's birthday. TheState of Alabama, I 
think, seceded on the 11th of January. I made that speech on tbe 22d of February, 
Waibiiigton's birthday, at the instance of a good many men in the community, who 
entertained the same sentiments and view^that I did, while there were a great many 
^ho were opposed to^those views. I did it rather as a mouthpiece of that sentiment 
thera. I was quite a young man, as I stated before, but possessed of all the aiidor and 
impetus that young men had at that time, and I dared to make it* I made it in the 
Presbyterian Church at Athens. I have got that speech yet, sir. 

Question. Was the prevailing sentiment in your county, or county town, in &vor oi 

Answer. I think it was decidedly so. 

Question. At that timet 

Answer. At that time decidedly in favor of it. Now, the connt^ voted for Mr. Breck- 
inridge; B^ and Douglas presented the co-operation ticket; it voted for Mr. Breck- 
inridge; but that was no evidenoe that they were in favor of seoession, for a great 
many who voted for Breckinridge were afterward Union men, while many leading 


men i& favor of Mr. Bceokiaricl^e were ftftsrtmd a«06iBioni«to. The Ibeliiig wm vwy 
bitter over iu that county, as it was in North Alabama geBeraily ; teit cspeeially m 
LimestoDe County. As a ftirther evidence of tiie sentiment, i aided and a^dsted In pot- 
ting up the United States flac on the eonrt^hoose of Athens. I snpposo tliist was weee 
montiM aftar the Staie of AlMama had seoeded— «t leasl it was belwasn two and Itoee 
months, to the best of my recollection. There was a party of ns who did it ; I hmt^ 
forgotten, but my best recoUection is that there were abooteieyen of «s who put ihait 
flag up on the oonrt*honse in Athens. I didnt go np to the oapela myself; there -wm 
a young man who was more agile and expert in matters of that kind, who ascended to 
the top of the cupola and put the flag out; we proteeted bim hi daing it; i% «laid 
there ibr two or thrse weslEs. Thers were a good many threats made abont fairing 
it down, but we resolved that it should not be taken down, and when it watt takettt 
down we took it down ourselves. 

QueaUon. As a matter of prudence f 

Atuwer, Yes, sir ; as a matter of prudence ; to keep fhmi distorbanoes in the commn- 
nity, we took that flag down ourselves; it staid there for two or three weeks. 

QueaUou* Tou subsequently followed the fortunes of your State f 

Answer, I did, sir; and I think every young man who put that flag up did. 

QueaUon, Went into the confederate army T 

Armoer, Yes, sir. 

OuMtisik And served through the war! 

Answer, I served until the battle of Chickamauga, where I was disabled by a broken 
limb, and was discharged from the army, and never went back. I was on cttitohes 
when the war ceased. 

Qmesiiim. H»ve yon resided in this State since the wsnr f 

Answer, I have, since 1867, iu this county. In 1865 I was elected to the legisUvtwre^ 
of Alabama from Limestone County; at the expiration of that year moved to t^is 

QueaUan, You were elected under Mr. Johnson's polisvf 

Answer, Yes, sir: under the reconstruction policy of Mr. Johnson. 

Questum. State, Mr. Richardson, the condition of affiiini in this amd the neighboring 
counties with which you are now acquainted. 

Answer, My opinion, and it is based upon my oirenlation throngh these oonn^es, and 
especially the lower district, of which Mc^r Sloss is the Bepresentatlve, in- wfiidi I 
a;tteud court — i — ^ 

Question. In what counties do yon attend court f 

Answer. I attend court every time in Limestone Coamty ; I freqnently attend coarts 
in Colbert^ Lawrence, and Manpan Conaties-~both the cirenit and county conits. From 
my observation in those cooaties, I believe that the people, though they do not indorse 
and approve heartily the laws that have been made in many instances, yet there is a 
general di^ositio|i on their part to obey them, as fiur as I have obssfrved. There in a 
^neral disposition to obey the laws, however unpleasant and disagreeable in aOMte 
instances our State and Federal laws are, aeeoiding to onr sentiments. I know very 
well that an act of our legislature has created a great deal of dissatisfaction timracli. 
out North Alabama. That act relates to what is Imown as the Ku-Klnx organiaUlon 
in this State. 

ByMr. Bucbxet: 

Question, Do yon mean the act passed December 28, 18681 

Answer. 1 can't recollect the data of it now. It is the act which pronounced «(v«ry 
man found in disguise a felon and an ontiaw, and which gave any man the right to 
shoot bim down. That is the snm and substance of it, according to my recolleotion. 
He is declared an outlaw when fonnd in disguise. That law baa created dissatisfhc4ion 
for this reason. At the same time. I think it is that act thatgiw the party ii^tirod tibe 
right to come forward and sna tae county for damages, n^ people, generally, ]oi»k 
upon it in this way ; that the men who are committing oatrsgesin this country ors high- 
waymen and robbers; that they are identified with no politioal parties ; that they «ro 
merely seeking their own selfish ends and vidW8> tivinatoaecomi^ishthem andnouiiiig 
else; and fior that reason the people do not think they ongfat tobe hsid respemible 
pecuniarily, in damages, Ibr the acts of such men. They do not cMisider it at ail aa 
being political in any rss p e ot . That is my observatioi^ and that is My opinion. 

By Mr. Blair: 

Question, Are the laws executed promptly and efficiently in the oonnties in wbiok 
you practice f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. For what reason f 

Answer. I can apeak mf»e knowia^y for theconnty in which I live now, Ma^Hson 
CiMmty* The sheriff of this county, who is Joseph T* Doyle, I consider ntteriy ineA- 
cient He is not the sberifi* now, becaase he was required to g^ve additional bond aad 


maaikf hy the grand Jury, and was uabl* to do m and fcsigned. I miA«ralo#d-^ 
wbetiier true or not I can't ataie—that the gorernmeut was going to taka atoipB 
kr luB lemOTal ; hat he resigned when the g^nd Jmy required him to giro heads. 
Sir. Doyle was an intemperate man. In addition to hemg intemperate, he was a rery 
timid man. 1 ha^e heard of diatartwneea in tkle eotmty where l thonght, and oOier 
dtizens thought, it was his doty to aiuninon a posse aadgo and arrest the perpetraters 
He vonld nevsr go out of the ooipoiate limits of thiseown when sneh tkmgs as Ihese 
were afloat. He wonld not go out at all ; he was afkasd to go, and he said he waa 
QuetHon, When was he eleeted aheffiff f 

Jminr. He was eleoted sheciff at tlie time t^at the oonatitation of this State iras 
QftetiUm, And rejected hy the people f 

AMtwer. And rcgeoted hy the people ; so reported hy General Meade, I heliere, who 
wat then prohahly in eonunand ; I think it was Qeneral Meade thought it had been 
rdected, and reported it was r^feoted hy such a number ef yotes. I don't know 
whether I am m£Btaken or not as to whether it was General Meade who was then in 
oommaDd of this military department. 

Qit€8tion, I believe you are correct about that. The act of Congress requked a ma- 
jority of the registered yotes. 

Anmeer, Tea, sir ; the policy of our people was not to Yote, in order to keep a minority 
<tf the registered voters from M>pearin|r as having voted. 

Que$Hon, I understand that Mr. Doyle was voted for^it that election fbr sheriff, and 
elected in the absence of the democratic vote t 

Answer, Tea, sir ; that is my reeoUeotion. that Doyle was eleoted at that time. That 
MiiBtitation was voted down by the people, and it was afterward declared to be the 
law ef the land, and in that declaration these ofBoers were put upon the people. 
QuettknL, Were any of the officers elected at that time in your county inefficient t 
Aiuwer, Well, I looked upon the probate Judge of this county as being, a;t the time he 
went into office, incapacitated for mscharffing the duties of that office, ibr the reason 
that he had never, from my observation oi him, studied law. He had been a sash and 
blind maker in this corporation. I don't think he was a man qualified to administer 
the affairs of the probate Judi»*s offlee, tfaroueh wtAt^ office all the property of the 
«oeoty weald ptaa wards, admiaistrntions, the businesa of exeeators, Ac, I den^ 
think he was qualified, thoneh I must say, in Jnstioe to him, that the office of probate 
judge, so far as it refers to tihe books, docketfl^ and pt^pemof every kind, is kept well, 
uuLwe find no difficulty when we go in there as lawyers in finding records or papers. 
In that reapeot the offibe ia very weU kept, but i did not consider and do not yet con- 
aider hiim a laan qualified to pass upon legal P^te that are presented to him. 

QumUon, Except as you have stated, the inefficiencv of the officers, what has been the 
ooodition of the oountry-; are there any reasons whieh have led to disturbances in 

AMmoer, I consider the charactw of the men holding office in this county and hi the 
^ioteiIMf eoonties as having been an irritatine cause crea^ng dissatisfhction among 
oar peojMe. As a general thing they were cemiMete and entire strangers to our people ; 
they were not identified with us in our interests nor in our sympathies. That gave 
the people great dissatisfaction. In addition to that, they thought that these oflKers 
iiad been imposed upon them unjustly and improperly. 
QuestUm, By the act of Congress f 

<daeif«r. B^jr act of Congress. But notwithstanding ^le Ihct that they believed ^ese 
nteu were inimical to their interests as a general thing, that they were unfirien^y to 
them in sympathy, the people have riM>wn, in my opinion, a general disposition to 
abide by whtk the laws were, and treat those men who are in office with that kind of 
eomtetf and eonsideration which men filling these offices are entitled to. They 
wwe di ap ea e d to obey the law, and to do the best they could under the circumstances, 
hsyiDdP tkat a better time would come, and to put down these disturbances which I 
knew have occurred in some of these counties. 
Que$tiMu What was the origin of those disturbances that yon speak off 
'ianptr. 80 far as my knowtodge ^^oes, General, these disturbances have originated in 
neitfhbozhood fends. They have onginated in a recollection of wrongs and of rumors 
and tales tlMit were told upon each other in neighborhoods during tne war to a very 
great extent. Now I hear of a difficulty down in Limestone County, wliere I am very 
well acquainted, in which I am satisfied that it wasn't at all political, for the reason 
that I was well acquainted with the parties. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
QuetUam. What case was that t 

Ammaer, That was the case of (dd man Weir and his treatment by Moore, and Blair, 
and Gibapn« and some others whose names 1 can^t now recollect. I don't think, fhim 


wbfti I have heard of Hunt, and what I know of the paorties, that there ie anything po* 
litical in it whatever. 

By Mr. Blair: 

QueatioH, Ton think it grew oat of perooaal foods between the parties f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; neighborhood animosities and bickerings. 

Question, Do you know anvthing of the organisation in this region of conntry soon 
after the war of what was ealled the Loyal L^kgneef 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Give ns some idea of what tiiose organizations were. 

Answer, All that I can tell yon of the orgaDization of the Loyal League is from what 
I heard; nothidg that I know of my own personal knowledge. I know, tothebes^ 
of my information and belief that such an organization eslBt^ here in this country. 
It was publicly declared. We knew its president ; I did in Limestone County. He 
was Daniel H. Bingham. He was said to be, or acknowledged to be, the president of 
the Loyal League. I was better acquainted in Limestone County than I am in this. I 
remember that they used to meet in an old drug^«tore on the comer of the square in 
Athens ; that was in '66 ; they would meet once a week. At that time they met in the 
day. I could see them going up into the house. I remember a disturbance that took 
place when they met there. It was created by a negro, whose name I have now foiv 
gotten^ out on the streets, Just before he went up into the Loyal League room. The 
cause of the disturbance was that some white man was remonstrating with him about 
going into that League, and searetly engaging in political matters. It was just merely 
a remonstrance, but a fuss ensued. I don't know how it occurred, but a difficulty en- 
sued ; some blows passed, and tiiere was a good deal of excitement created. 

Question, What was understood the object of those Leanest 

Answer, The object was, so far as I understood, to get the colored people into them, 
and instill into them animosity and prcijudioe against the native southern white peo- 
ple. That's what I understeod to be the object of the Leagues, and to tbereby instEre 
their votes for the radical party. 

By the Chairman : 
Question, Instill animosity and pr^udioe against whom? 

Anstoer. Against the native southern white people ; that was what we ondexstood 
here to be the ol^ect of the Loyal Lea^e. 

By Mr. Blair : 

QuesUon. Is that the fl^nfflral understanding among the pecmle f 

Answer, That's what! believe to be the general understanding ; that was the msm* 
ner in which we accepted it. 

Question. Was there any attempt, and if so what, on the part of the white people to 
organize themselves to resist this movement ; did it lead to similar organizations on 
their part ! 

Answer. Well^ I have always believed that the Loyal Leu^e was the parent of tha 
Ku-Klux organization ; and m>m what I oould hear of the ^-Klux organization, and 
from what I knew of it from young men, it was formed and organized for the pur|H»e 
of being a check upon the Loyal League ; at least that is what it was accepted as in 
this community, as being a check upon the Loyal League, and as being a terror to evil- 
doers, whoever they might be. 

Question. Were there any outrages instigated by this Loyal League, and committed 
l|y them, to your knowledge or imormation f 

Answer, Do you mean by that> violence to the perspn of any individual f 

Question. Yes ; or violence or outrages to property, or disorder of any kind f 

Answer, 1 heard of no violence that I now recollect of perpetrated by any one be* 
lon^iuff to the Loyal League, which was oharffed as au outrage committed by such an 
iouiviauai because he was a member of the Loyal League. I heard of no such vio- 

Question, Was there any collision between these organizations, do you recollect f 

Answer, Between the Loyal League and the organization known as the Ku-Klox t 

Question, Yes, sir. 

Answer. Well, sir, there was a collision here in this town in 1868 ; I think it was in 
Uie latter part of October. 

Question, Known as the riott 

Answer. Known as the riot in this town in 1868 ; if I remember correctly it was just 
preceding the election. 

Queeiion. Were you here at that time t 

Answer. I was. 

Qaeilioa. Didyouseeitf ^^ , 

Answer, I did. Digitized by LjOOQ le 

Question, State what you know in reference to the origin and the cirouinstanoea at- 

teodinf it, as well ftom yonr own knowledge of wb«t e«ine vnder yonr own observa* 
tion ft8 what was sabeeqaently developed in testimony. 
Answer. Ton just wish me to give an account of that dlBtorbance that night f 
QwetUon. To give an account of it. 
Jntwer, I was attending a peiftamaoee— — * 
QwaUoiL Give also your views of its origin. 

Answer. Well, with a view of its origin, I will eommenoe then with that first. It oo- 
cnrred on Saturday night, according to my best reeollection ; on Saturday there was a 
Luge meeting held in the court-house yard. There were a great many colored people 
attending that meeting. C. 0. Sheets, then from Decatur, was one of the principal 
speakers. I remember to hav^ been standing in one of the lower it>oms of the courts 
loose building. The platform was erected on the east side of the court-house, and I 
hevd Mr. Sheets state to the colored people that he bad been interfered with a few 
nigbts before that in Florence by the Ku-Klux, and that he had promised them then 
thai he would not make the abusive and inflammatory speeches that he had been mak- 
mg before that. That is, in substauce, what he said. I can't assume to state his 
words. He said that he had promised the Ku-Klux that he would uot make such a 
speech, but having got up here where there are so many colored people he wasn't afrai4 
to say what he pleaised, and that if the colored people would do wlint it became them as 
men to do, they would carry with them weapons and shoot down these men wherever 
tlMy found them : that the reason the Ku-Klux paraded the country was because the 
ne^^noes were weak-kneed, or words to that effect ; that was the idea. He made that 
day a very inflammatory speech, and one that aroused the negroes very much and 
seemed to appeal to their passions as much as any speech I have ever heard mode in 
this country. The negroes were very muoh e^soited under this speech ; they remained . 
We during the day, large numbers of them, and at night there was a meeting held in 
this court-room. I remember that in going to tea to the Huntsville Hotel, where I 
boarded, I met— I can't say how many— but numbers of negroes, coming to that meet- 
ing with guns. They carried them not concealed at all, and there was a great deal of 
excitement among the negroes throughout the town. After I got my supper I went to 
a performance at the Thespian HalL During the performance the announcement was 
made that the Ku-Klux were coming in. I came out of the hall and came up right 
opposite here, at the northeast comer of the square, by the Moore buildiug, at the head 
<n Washington street. I was standing there when the Ku-Klnx came around. I 
soppose there were one himdred and twenty-flve to one hundred and flity of them. 
Many men estimated them as a g^eat many more than that, but I don't think there 
was more than one himdred and twenty-five to one hundred and fifty. They passed 
aronnd very quietly, because there was but little noise when they passed around. 
They pa ss ed down the same street they came up, going on down toward the raarket- 
hoose, northward. The rear of the column had reached nearly to the markert- 
^omt, when I discovered that a great many of these -colored people had left this 
meeting and were out near the court-house gate, and some in the street; I was 
standing leaning against a post at this comer of the Moore block when, I sup- 
pose, tweirty-five or fifty colored people were passing down behind me, following the 
oohimn ; I took hold of of one of the negro men ; put my hands on him ; he had a 
repeater in his hand ; I didn't know his name ; the moon was shining bright ; I said to 
him, "Put np that pistol j don't go after those men, because you wifi create a distnrb- 
Aooe in the commiinity.'' I hadn't more than said that before there was a shot from 
the court-house gate, and after that repeated shots ; I don't know how manv were 
fired; I stepped b^iind the Moore block to protect myself, and there were several shots 
^red ; I am satisfied^ from my own observation, that the first shot came from some 
colored people within the court-house yard ; I afterward, at the request of a lieuten- 
aot or a captain stationed here, belonging to the command then here under command 
of Oeoeral Rnger — that is, I understand that the request came ttom General £uger, 
that I should take the testimony of citiswns, who observed and saw thin riot, in order 
to find oat tiie truth of it— I took the testimony ; all of it ; I took the testimony of, I 
reckon, at least fhnn thirty-five to fifty witnesses, in my law-office, on the subject of 
this riot, both colored men and white men. The decidea preponderance of that testi- 
mony eooclosively showed, to my own mind, as did my observation, 'that the first shot 
was fired from the colored people within the court-house yard ; at least it was fired 
fiora a mass of people gathered there ; whether it was by a white man or a colored man 
I couldn't spy, nor could the witnesses ; it came, however, from the court-house yard ; 
that Ku-Klnx organization, or procession of men, I think, didnt fire a shot that night, 
sir; I know this from the testimony that was adduced there before me, and it was 
twom to ; several witnesses swore that before this organization or procession came 
into town, there were a good many colored men, allegrad to have been headed by one 
Charles Hale, went out to the edge of town to meet the Ku-Klux organization before 
they reached here at all j they wont nearly half a mile from town to meet them ; the v 
saw them coming, and when they saw them coming they took fright and came back 


to the conrt-honse ; the negroes vHdn't fire opoa them when they etaae in at aU ; not 
when they ftrst came in. 

Question, Did the Kn-Klnx fire at all f 

Answer, I am satisfied that they did not while I saw them, and I saw them isom the 
time they entered the square nntil they left, and I had eonTerBatum with them a£ter 
the riot was over. 

Question. Was there any testimony taken before yon that showed that the Kn-KIuK 
had fired anr of the shots f 

Answer, There was not a particle ; if I am not mistaken, and I don't think I am, I 
heard General Ruger state that he observed these men fccin his window in the hotel 
where he was boaraing, and that he was satisfied that they never did fire a shot. 

Question, Then they simply paraded aronnd the square f 

Answer, Nothing else in the world ; and there were varioas envressions dnriag that 
meeting there that day, that these men of the Kn«>Klux organization were afraid to 
come in here. 

Question. Was there any person iignred by this firing f 

Answer. Tes, sir : there were four or five persons iinnred, wounded, and, I believe^ 
two kiUed. 

Question. Then the firing took place among persons who were mingled togeth^ in 
the crowd around the oonrt-honse and streets t 

Answer. It was just promiscuous ont there in the streets and oonrt-honse yard ; they 
seemed to be firing at randcfm— jnst random shots; who was firing I couldn't teUL 

Question. Who was killed f 

Answer. Well, sir, I have forgotten. 

Question. There was a Judge ThorlOw, was there not f 

Answer. 0,yes; you refresh my memory ; Judge Silas Thurlow, of Limestone County, 
Was killed ; he ^as shot at this north gate here. 

Question. Was there any evidence showing by whom he was shotf 

Answer. None at all, sir. 

Question, Was there a man by the name of Cox shot f 

Answer. Tes, sir ; William W. Ccfx ^as shot, eomewhere in the head ; I have forgot- 
ten where : there was a negro named Boper shot, and a negro by the name of Martiii 
shot, and then there was a negro killed, whose name I have forgotten. 

Question, This man Cox was a conservative, or democrat, was he iMt f 

Answer. Tes, sir : a democrat. 

Question. Judg^ Thurlow was a republican f 

Answer. Tes, sir. 

Question. Was Cox kiUedf 

Answer, No', sir; Cox was very badly shot. 

Question. Who shot him T 

Answer. Well, sir, I don't know. 

Question, Do you know of the testimony implicating any one f 

Answer, Not at all. 

Question. Was there any testimony goieg to designate «iy person as having shot aoy 
•f those negroes f 

Answer. None at aU. 

Question. No person identified f 

Answer. No person was identified, either in that testimony or iafterward in the courta, 
where parties were indicted. 

Question, It was subsequently examined in the courts f 

Answer, Tes, sir ; and the indictments were noL prossed. 

Question, All of them V 

Anstoer. Tes, sir; all parties charged ; black and white. 

Question, As to that testimony, I want you to state as distiaotiy «id aoooinotly «s 
you can what persons or class of persons were indicated as having commenced this 

Anstoer, My recollection of that testimony is, and there was a mass of it, that it all 
tended to show that the firing began within the oonrt-honse ^rard, near the gate. As 
I said before, there was a meeting being held up here in this oourt-roora, and I had 
noticed when the Ku-Klux organization passed around the eonrt-hoiue yard that the 
colored people followed them around the court-house as they passed on around^ keep- 
ing with them from curiosity or something else ; I couldn't tell what. But evidently 
everybody was apprehensive of a difficulty. As the Ku-Klux passed off down the 
street to the northeast, after passing by the east side of the oourt-honae, the first shot 
was fired, and I know it came from the east side of the oourt-honse where a great many 
negroes were assembled, and there were white people among them too, because there 
were white republicans attending that meeting. 

Question, The people in attendance upon that meeting poured out of the eoart-hooaa f 

Answer. Tes, sir. 

Question, And can^e team that exit, from this hall, and poured around the boildiiig f 


M»mr, Tbey ewne around the bmldin^ m the JB^o-Klox passed aroimd the square, 

ud they made a general halt on the east side of the coort-hoose and they theiestopped. 
Froio tnat point 1 heard the first shot fired. 
qmtim. Was Cox shot there! 

Jhmmt. Cox was ^bot out in the stxeet, near that gate. 

Qiteflioii. Were there many persons, citizens, congregated on the other side of the 

AM9wer, Tes, sir; all around the square; there was a large nnmher of dtizene all 
aroQDd the square. 

ftuKHtion, Mow many persons do you suppose were in the street and around the 
square f 

Armoer. I should think, and it is a mere matter ofo^^inion as to a crowd, on which 
pet^le wiU differ, hat I snould say there- wece aA least a thousand white people around 
the square looking at that organization passing around. 

(ii^luNi. How many negroes f 

An9wer. Well, sir, there were- from a thousand to fifteen hundred. Just to make 4 
rough guess. 

Que^um. This testimony, which tou reduced to writing at the request of an officer 
of the Army, was forwarded to tiie headquarters of General Bugnr f 

Answer. I turned it over to that officer. I can^ recollect the officer's name because 
I wasn't acquainted with him. He left the poet soon after that, but I gave him that 
testimony, and if I recoil^ right he said he forwarded it to Georgia. 

Questum. To the headquarters? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; that's what he told me he was goin^ to do. 

Qvefidon. State, if yon please, if there i&, in your opiniAn, any such thing as Ku-Kluz 
in this county at this time. 

Answer. I think not, general. I am confident that there is no such organization. 

QuesHon. Is there any difficulty here in executing the law f 

Answer. None at all. 

QttesHon. Have any of these Ku^Kluz been prosecuted heret 

Answer. Yes, sir ; there have been prosecutions instituted here against men charged 
with being Ku-Eluz. In the United States court there have be^ several prosecu- 


Question. For acta committed recently f ' * 

Answer. Yes, air. 

QuesiUnt, Any convictions obtained f 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Mr. Nicholas Davis stated in his testimony that he prosecuted certain par- 
ties who were held to bail, and that the officers took insufficient bail for them. Bo 
yon recollect that case 1 

Answer. I remember to have heard Mr. Davis sav something about such a case. 

Question. He stated it himself. I, did not know but what you knew of it. 

Answer. No, sir ; I don't remember any of the circumstances connected with it at all. 
1 remembwr to have appeared hero in a case against two young men ; I defended them. 
They were charged with being Ku-Klux — young Martin, and the other defendant, 
whose name I have forgotten. The charge was made by one Pryor Turner. The in- 
vestigation took place before Robert W. Wilson, and W. B J^gures, a justice of the 
feaee, in this room. Mr. Figures is well known in this community as to his political 
sentiments. He is the editor of the Advocate. 

Question. A radical paper f 

Answer. A radical paper, thoroughly r^ublican in all of his sentiments ; and he'^ro- 
nounced these men Innocont, and discharged them* Then there were several other 
eases that I have heard of. I would like to state, f||eneral, I stated that I had a 
eouveraatkm with that procession of men after that not was over. It might seem, 
horn that, that I had some identification with that organization. I never belonged to 
any Ku-Rlux organization, though I have had applications to join them : I never Joined 
any sudi organization, because I was opposed to them. I didn't think it was right. 
I didn't like secrecy about anything, about any organization, and I thought it would 
result in evil. After that ziot'was over, there was a knot of us young men gathered 
out OB the comer of the street. The Kn-Klux were down Washington street £awn up 
in line of battle, as well as I could discover, from my position, i thought, and so did 
others standing there, that they were coming back in the square. I remember having 
proposed to th^ crowd, generally, that we go down and see them, and advise them to 
leave the square, and not come back ; that they would cet into collision with the ne- 
groes and create a disturbance. I was afraid they womd create a disturbance on the 
square, oihI I proposed to the crowd that some of us go down there and see them. I 
went myself to that procession, and there I discovered a man who, from his appearance, 
being outaide of the line, I took to be an officer, or in command. I walked up to him 
and told him I wanted, a conversation with him. I had no idea who he was, and J 
dsn't Imow now who he was. I told him I thought it was very imprudent and indis 


creet for his company to ffo back on that square ; that it wonld resnlt in bloodshed 
and create a great deal of disturbance; and our people wonld be visited with paninh- 
tnent. That was the idea or the substance of what I told him, and that I ibou^ht he 
ought to leave the town. He remarked to me that he wonld take my advice. I 
farther told him that the United States commander, General Rnger, had ordered a 
company to come in, and that there would be an unfortunate disturbance, and he 
ought to leave town. He ttimed immediately and said, '' We don't want to create a 
disturbance. We are not here for a disturbance, unless we are attacked." That's what 
he said to me, and rode off, and I never heard anything more of the Ku-Klux.; they 

Question. Do you know a negro man named Joe Gill ? 

Answer, I do not, by that name. He may huVe an alias. 
. Question, Do yon know a man by the name of Parks Townsend, and another named 
Marion Burks f 

Answer, I know a man by reputation of the name of Paiks Townsend ; I don't know 
him personally. 

Question, Where does he live f 

Answer. I can't say in what part of this county he lives, because I do not know. 

QtiesHon, Is he a man of reputation, or what i» his character f 

Answer, Well, sir, if there is anything against his character I have not heard it. 

Question, Do you know a man by the name of Shai>ard, who testified l>efore this com- 
mittee yesterday f 

Answer. 1 do not. 

Question, Did yon ever practice in Blount County f 

Answer, I never did. I do not know Shapard personally ; I have heard of him as a 

Question, Do you know his reputation ? 

Answer, Well, sir, to a very limited extent. 

Question, I wish you to state now to the committee whether you consider that the 
public sentiment in this portion of the country is in favor of executing the laws and 
maintaining the peace and the quiet of the community against all organizatipns of 
whatever character and description. 

Answer, I believe that the people generallv of those counties in North Alabama 
whero'I have been are decidedly and unqualifiedly in fovor of the execution of the 
law, and especially for the suppression of all outrages and the arrest of all perpetrators 
of violence. 

Question, How long has this been the condition of affairs here in this part of the 
State of which you speak f 

Answer. WeU, I think, in answer to that question, I can say that the people have 
been more disposed for the last eighteen Tuonths to see the law enforced tnan they 
had been at any time since the surrender— decidedly more disposed to have the law 
enforced, and to see it rigidly ex^utcd, because it was to their own interest and pro- 
tection that it should be. 

Question, Has the fact that the people of Alabama have rescued the control of their 
affairs from the persons who were imposed upon them under the act of Congress been 
the cause of the restoration of peace and good order and tranquillity f 

Aiwwer, I think that the election of Rol^rt B. Lindsay, as governor of this State, 
has done a great deal to give aatisfaction to the people ; it has added greatly to their 
disposition to maintain law and order. 

Question, Do you believe that much of the disorder and turbulence in the State aroee 
fronf the fact that the people of the State had a constitution and officers imposed 
upon them in violation of the first act of Congress — the reconstruction act of Congress T 
Do you believe that that save rise to much of the tnrbulencef 

Answei\ I know that it did; because the people were restless, impatient, and greatly 
dissatisfied, by reason of that constitution being imposed upon them in the way that 
it was done, and from that flowed a great deal of the turbulence in this State. 

Question, Do you believe that a complete restoration of their rights as citizens to 
those who are now under disabilities, and tb6 complete restoration of local self-govern- 
ment, would restore entire peace and tranquillity to these people f 

Answer, My own opinion of that is that, if a general bill of amnesty was passed by 
the Congress of the United States, it would do more to arouse the dormant feeling of 
affection for the Union in this State than anything else that could be done ; that it 
would do more to create harmony, and to mb out and obliterate the animosities and 
prejudices that have sprung up and been created by the war, than anything else that 
could be done. 

Question, Do the people regard the disqualification of their ablest men by the four- 
teenth amendment for aU public service as a great hardship to them T 

Answer, They do ; they look upon it as being a great privation to them that the men 
who are the most experienced in political matters, many of them the ablest men in our 
State, are unable to hold office. ^ i 


.QmtUm. Bo they think thoy are deprived of the benefit of their experience and 
JiMMr. Tea, sir ; being deprived of that, they feel that it is a great hardehip npon 

gy the CfH airman; 

QitMoH. You apoke of having made a Union speech on the 22d of Febmary, 1861, 
after Alabama had seceded, and asain, sabeequently to that, in company with others, 
of having pot up the flag of the United States on the conrt-honse at Athens. What 
indnced yon, sabseqnently to «yonr then condition of feeling, to enter the confederate 

AMtwer. The speech that I made on the 22d day of Febmarv, being the birthday of 
Washington, was made at the instance, as I believe I stated before, of many of mv 
friends, who agreed with me in ihe sentiments that I expressed in that speech, which 
were in £avor of the Union and its preservation. I afterward entered tne army as a 
confederate soldier, freely and from my own choice, for the reason that it haa then 
become a question whether I should side with mv own people or whether I shonld 
iigfat in the Army of the United States. Upon that question i had no hesitancy what- 
ev^. As long as there was a possibility, so far as my then limited intelligence in polit- 
ical matters could discern, of the Union being preserved and kept together, entertain- 
ing merely the sentiments of my father— having his views reflected upon me — I was for 
its preservation and maintenance. I went into the confederate army oecause it had be- 
come an actual and real fact that there was no Union, so far as Alabama was concerned : 
that it was gone, and that I either had to go up North or stay South ; tf^e latter I had 
DO hesitancy in doing. 

QunHon, Were yon then in favor of the maintenance of the Union, if possible, at the 
timn you entered the confederate army t 

Answer, At the time that I went into the confederate army, which was after the call 
(bat Mr. Lincoln made for 75,000 troops, my feelings npon that snbject had changed ; 
tbere bad been an entire change in my feelings upon that subject after that caU for 
75,000 ^oops. 

Question, You were, then, no longer in favor of maintaining the Union, I understand? 

An&mer, I was in favor, Senator, of abiding by my State then, following her destiny. 

QvssHoH. Your State at that time had seceded ? 

Am$wer. It had gone out on the 11th day of January. 

By Mr. Bcckley : 
QuetUon. Had it seceded when yon made the speech in February f 
JsMMT. It had seceded ; there was a strong sentiment at that time in North Alabama, 
tbat North Alabama should Join Tennessee. 

Question, So you still bad hopes that the State might be retained, or a portion of it, 
¥beo you made tbat speech f 

* Answer, Yes, sir ; we still had hopes that the ordinance of secession would be sub- 
Bitted to the people, and we would nave a vote on it. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, 1 that case, I understand from your expressed sentknonts, you would have 
Toted against secession T 

Answer. Unquestioiiably. 

Question, Did you not regard the call of Mr. Lincoln for 75,000 troops as a constitu- 
tional duty ^noosed upon nim to maintain and protect the Union. 

Answer, 1 did not, for this reason, that I. thought compulsion toward the wayward 
and erring sisters was the worst policy that could be pursued ; and that expediency should 
bave rather become the wisdom of the President than an actual execution of the law. 

QueUion, Was he not expressly authorized by an old act of Congress to make that 
call which was recited in hht proclamation T 

Answer. My recollection of that call is, that it recited the authority utider which he 
acted in making the call. 

Quegtion, Didyou ever examine that authority ? 

Answer, I never did, that I now remember of. 

Question. Ton are satisfied that snch a law exists, are you not, justifying this call f 

Answer. I have no reason to believe that it does not exist. 

Question, The whole purpose of that call was to put down this insurrection in the 
Southern States, was it not 7 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did you not regard it as his duty, as the chief magistrate, sworn to exeonte 
the laws, to make that caUf Did you suppose he had any discretion in the matter f 

Answer, I regarded it in this way— if I can recall my impressions upon that subject — 
Aat it was more sacredly the duty of the President of the United States to do all things 
tbat liy in his power to preserve and maintain the Union, and, that in the preservation 


fOid mainteiiaDce of the Union, if he eoold still reclaim the affections and the iodeiest 
and the good wishes of the people of the Southern countrv, that in that way he would 
jl^etter maintain the Union ; and I looked upon the caU m 75,000 troopa as barring an 
irritating and exasperating tendency among thi people, and likely to canry a ^^eai 
many men who were in sympathy with the Union, and partial to its maintananoe, 
nnder the storm of feeling into that channel in which they did not want to go. 

QueBtion, Will yon please state what other method, Imown to the Iimf, Mr« Linooln . 
had of putting down this iusarrection, except calling upon the people of this eaontiy 
to aid hmi in putting it down ? 

Atmoer. Well, sir, my own'opiuion about that is just simply this: that if Alahiia, 
for instance, had been let alone, even after she seceded, and no war had been wagsdoa 
her, she would have.been back in the Union in six months. 

Que$iUm, What evidence have you of thatf 

Aiuwer. I have that evidence to my own mind, that the mi^OTity of the people of 
Alabama were in favor of the Union, and that they were overawed and trampled 
down by reason of votes that were cast at the convention which voted her oat of t^ 
Union, which did not represent the sentiments of the people, and if they had had an 
opportunity to have voted on that ordinance of secession, the people would have voted 
it down. That is why I believe^ if Alabama had been let alone, and she had not beoa 
distorbedy and thereby the passions of her people aroased, which is moiestronffly dona 
when blood is shed than under any other circumstances, she would have been back in 
the Union in six mouths. 

QuesUon. All this is a mere matter of speculation, is it not t 

Amwer, All matter of opinion on my part, of what I believe the sentiments of the 
people were. 

ByMr. Bucklby: 

Que$tion, If the secession element in this State was so strong as to bring abost a 
rerasal in the convention to submit the ordinance of secession to the people, do you not 
think it would have been strong enough also to have prewemted. tlM Union elemrat 
from casting a mtgority of votes against secession, if the ordinance had been sab- 

Answer, Then, if that had been the case, the fight or struggle, instead of being with 
the friends of the Union, would have been in AJahama, against the men who woce 
fighting to throttle us. 

Qu€9thn, Was it not a fact that when the convention met in 1861, a m^jotityi when 
it nrst assembled, was in favor of the Union f 

Answer, Let me understand that question. 

QueeUan, I will ask it again. When the convention met, was not a minority of it in 
favor of maintaining the Union ; the convention of 1861, I mean, niiioh passed the 
ordinance of secession f 

Answer, I have understood from gentlemen who were memben of that oonveotioD. 
from North Alabama, that the m%|ority of delegates in that convention, when they 
first assembled, were in favor of the maintenance of the Union, and opposed to ^tho 
passage of the ordinance of secession ; that when Hon. Jeremiah Clemens, who repre- 
sented Madison County in that, convention, being a leadin^ip man in NorUi Alabama^ 
having once been Alabama's Senator, and who, being a leading Union man, was looked 
to by the people as boinff a representative man of the Union people of that conventtoo, 
of the co-operation ]>eople ; when he changed and went over in mvor of tlie ordinaneo 
of secession, there was a ^eat burst of indignation throughout this county and 
throughout North Alabama, because it was said that Clemens had sold out. 

Queeti^n, Did not your fellow-townsman, Mr. Davis, first oppose the ordinance of 
secession and then vote for it t 

Answer, He did. 

(Question, Was it not a fhct that the delegate elected from Jackson County here was 
kept out of the couventiou entirely, until after that oFdinance was passed f 

Answer, That I do not know. 

Question, Then it is a fact that, although the majority of that convention was at first 
against secession, they finally parsed the ordinance of secession f 

Answer, They finally passed the ordinance of secession, attribotaJ;)le, in my opinion, to 
Jeremiah Clemens, and no one else in this State. 

Qitesiion, I am only asking for the fact f 

Answer, That is the fact. 

Question, And that convention afterwards refused to submit the ordinance of seeeo- 
sion to the people of Alabama f 

Answer, They did. 

By the Chairmak: 
Question, Were any steps taken by the people of Alabama to overrule the decision of 
that convention after it had dissolved f ^ 


w No, dr. 
QimtimL \\^iat means hmwe you, then, of knowing that there was not an acqoies* 
OMM OD the part of the m%)oritj of the people of Alabama in the ordinance of seces- 

Am mt t . My means of belieriag I can state: that it is a meve matter of opinion, of 
coorae, jSenator, that I think so, because I was no politician, and my opinion was ob- 
tiiiied mostly from the leading men of my own ootinty, as Thomas J. McClellan, who 
wasanember of tkat oODToat^n. The vote giyen for Donglas and Bell was always 
couaidMed the Union vote. I do not now remember what was the combined vote of 
Dovglas and Bell, bat that was a basis we generally made when we enmrned np the 
Uaioo steea^tbof the State— the opposition that would have been made to secession. 
Whether that combined vote was more than that for Breckinridge, or not, I caonot 
state ; bat we had every reason to believe it, and yoa will find now, among the co^p- 
9»tiMk men of this State—of North Alabama particularly— that they all believed 
that that ordinance would have been voted down, had it been submitted to the people^ 
Ibdieve, in Limestone Omnty, whe^ I then lived, that it would have been v<^ted 
down hj seven men out of ten. 

QuetUoH. I have a statement here, Mr. Richardson, of the vote of Alabama at the 
presidential election of i860, in which it is stated that the vote for the Breckinridge 
ti<^et was 48,891 ; far the Union, or Bell and Everett ticket, 27,875 ; for the Douglas 
tidcet, 13,€5I, showing a majority over both the other tickets in favor of the Breckin- 
ridge ticket. Is this year recollection of the condition of the vote that year f 

Answer, Since yon have read that it refteshes my Inemory on that subject, and it is 
my opinion that itis eorreet ; and, as I stated before in my testimony, a great many 
Bea m my county voted for Mr. Breckinridge as the presidential candidate, who were 
afterwards sti^ng Union men ; they did not consider voting lor Mr. Breckinridge as 
identifying them with the secession movement, and, for that reason, I think that, 
skhqngh tJbe State went Ibr Breckinridge, it might have been in other counties 
like it was in my own. 
QumUtm, Was not that Breekinri^i;e ticket reswrded as the disunion ticket f 
Awnomr, I believe that by the leading men of uie State it was. and that it was in- 
tended as a disunion ticket, but I do not believe it was so regaraed by the mass of the 

^^Miliois. Yon .spoke about tiie United States flag put np by you on the court-* 
liouM. Is the flag of the United States now displajred throughout Limestone and 
lisdisoB, and oti^r eounties in this part of the State ; if so, upon what occasions f 

Answer. 1 bave seen the flag displayed in North Alabama since the war on different 
occasions. I bave se^i it here, in the celebration of the Proclamation of Emancipation 
byPresideBt lAac<An. 
QKuaikm. Was it dicqplayed by the ool<»ed people t 
Answer, By the colored people. 

QuetH^tu I mean have yon seen it displayed by that portion of your people who 
vent into the war f 

Amwar. I saw in this oonrt-honse yard, in the presidential campaign of 1868, a plat- 
tan bwantifally decorated with the United States flag ; it was a large democratic 

Any other occasion that you remember f 

r. It occurs to me that in a large meeting in Colbert County, at which the 

Hon. Albert Pike was the principal democn^c sp^kker, the United States flag was 
displayed ; I think that it was — about that I am not positive. 

Quitum. Any other instances that occur to yon t 

Answer. I caanot rocolleot any other now. sir. 

Question. As an emblem of the Union, and of the sovereignty of the United States, 
is not the flag now regarded odiously by t^rose who went into the rebellion, and by 
those who sympathised with the rebellion f 

Answer. (After » pause.) Well, sir, the reason that I hesitate, or seem to hesitate, in 
the answer to that question is simply to collect clearly and distinctly my impressions 
and tbooghta on that subject ; and I answer by saying that I do not think that the flag 
is now considered odious by the great majority of the people from this section of the 
coontzy who went into the oonJfederate army, as the emblem of the sovereignty of the 
United States and the authority of the Union. 

Question. Do you think it is ^eeted as affectionately as it was before the war f 

Answer. I do not think that it is welcomed with the sanie earnestness and intensity 
of zeal and affection now that it was before the war, for the reason that there were a 
great many things done under that flag to people who were true to it at the beginning 
of the war, who did not think that they were entitled to the wrongs that were perpe- 
trated upon them. For that reason many people in this country do not look upon it 
with the same zeal and affection that they used once to do. 

Quaikm. Is it not regarded bow by a great many people of Alabama as the badge of 
oppression f ^ 


Answer, I do not believe the people look upon the flag as a badge of oppTeaBioa oc as 
an emblem of tyranny ; they think that a great many things h^e been done by the 
Qovemment and by Congress punishing them more severely than they deserved; 
but to take the flag as the representative of the nation, and as the representative of 
the people, and the emblem of the United States, I do not think they attach any 
odium to it. 

Question. It was very mnoh hated during the war, was it not f 

Answer, Well, sir, \diile the passions ca men were aroused, and blood was being 
thed, and that awful and unfortunate straggle was going on, I believe that it was. 

QuestUm, When did their love for the flag return f 

Answer. After General Lee surrendered at Appomattox and we saw it was a useless 
and vain struggle, then the people, so &t as my knowledge goes, considered tiiat it 
was the part ot wisdom and to their interest, as citizens ot the Qovemment, to make 
the very best they could of the results of the war, and to abide l^ its issue honestly 
and in good faith. 

QuesHan, Do you not think that .the people of Alabama at this time would prefer an 
independent government similar to the Jeif Davis government, the confederate gov- 
ernment f 

Answer, I do not. 

^estian. You think they are thorou^ly reconciled to the Union again, do you f 

Answer. I think this, that they are disposed to become thoroughly reconciled, and if 
they have a fair op|>ortunity given them that they will become entirely reconciled; 
but as to a disposition or an anxiety, upon the part of the people with whom I am 
acquainted, publicly to establish an independent government, there is no disposition 
whatever upon their part to do it, nor ever to ma&e the efifort to do it ; they are sick 
of secession and of war. 

QuestUm, Do your people esteem it a matter of great injustice that your leading men, 
who had been members of Congress or who had held commissions in the military aad 
naval service of the United States, and in this capacity had taken an oath to support 
the Constitution of the United States, and broken that oath in rebelling against the 
Government, should not be trusted now, a second time, by the Government with the 
privilege of holding high offices f Do they esteem this a matter of great injustice f 
• Answer, Our people consider it a great privation to be deprived, in times like these, 
where we think the liberty and independence of the citizens are at stake and the 
existence of a republican government is in danger — we think it a great hardship that 
we should be deprived of the wisdom, experience, and knowledge of men whom we 
have once trusted. 

Question, You do not answer my question in the spirit in which I put it. I will pat 
it in another form. Are your people of opinion that Jefferson Davis, for example, who 
was once Secretary of War and a Senator of the United States, and who subsequently 
violated the oath that he took when he entered upon those 4iigh offices, should be 
trusted a second time to hold similar offices, after having thus flagrantly violated his 
obligation to supp>ort the Constitution of the United States t 

Question, My opinion is ttiat the people do not consider that Mr. Davis, or any othier 
representative from the South in Congress at that time, violated his oath by leaving 
the Senate Chamber«or the House of B^presentatives ; for the reason that, as a genenu 
thing, we believe in the doctrine of State sovereignty, and that the State of Alabama, 
for instance, or the State of Mississippi, had a right to say to her Representatives in 
Congf^ss when they should stay and when they should leave; that that right waa 
superior to. any other right in the land. 

Question, Then you do not regard the oath to support the Constitution of the United 
States as pledging the one who takes it to maintain and defend the Union f 

Answer. Not in opposition to the interests of his State. 

Question.' Ib that the doctrine held by the democratic party to-day in Alabama t 

Answer. So far as my knowledge of the democratic party is concerned, I believe that 
they maintain the doctrine that the States should not be interfered with in their inter- 
nal matters — in their munici{>al laws ; and that they should be allowed the pri%ilege 
and the right to regulate their domestic affairs. That is what I understand to be the 
doctrine of the democratic party ; that the Federal Government should not interfere 
in the management, direction, and control of State matters. 

Question, But suppose the General Government does, do your people hold that the 
State of Alabama has the right to secede f 

Answer. That involves the question. Senator, it seems to me, of all the theories of 
this Government. 

Question. I just wanted to know what the opinions of the democratic party npoa 
that question are to be in Alabama f 

Answer, If the Federal Government does interfere, you say, with the affairs of 
Alabama, for instance, is it the opinion — I am Just finding out your qaestion-— of the 
democratic; party of Alabama that the State ought to seced^tl^ed by v^'' 

Question. Yes, sir. --^ 


Mtmtf, I am at a loss to answer that question for this reason : Even if we wanted to 
>ecede, it would not be possible nor practicable, and I do not believe that the people of 
Alabama indorse secession or approve of it. 

'By Mr. Rice: 
(iuatitm. Do they indorse the right of secession nnder the circnmstances stated ? 
By Mr. Blair: 

J>tu8Uijn, Do thev not consider that that qnesiion has been settled by the rebellion 
y and entirely f 

ianMT. They consider that the war and its results have forever settled the question 
of ieoesaion in thi^ Government 
(itutHon^ And the right f 
iJMJocr. And the right of it? 

By the Chairman : 

Qieestion. Did the Greneral Government ever interfere in the affairs of the State of 
Alabama, except in the execution of the acts of Congress f 

Anmer, We believe it did, in the adoption of the constitution we have got now in 

9K€s<i<m. I sp^ak of the condition of affairs before the war. Had the General Gov- 
ernment intervened in the local affairs of the State of Alabama before the rebellion f 

iMwer. I have never read of the General Government doing so, nor do I recollect, of 
my own personal knowledge, of its having done it ; I was nothing but a youth when 
tira war began. 

Qvestum. But you are familiar with the history of those times f 

A%wer» Yes, sir. I have never read it. . . 

QK««fi<m. Then^ in your opinion, there was no cause, so far as the State of Alabama 
Was concerned, for rebellion T 

Jimcer. I dia not think so : I did not think there was any just cause for the secession 
of Alabama, or I would not nave done what I did; 1 certainly would not have done 
H. I did not think the election of Mr. Lincoln, although considered by our people as 
a sectional President and a sectional candidate — I did not think his election was suffi- 
cient to destroy the American Union and break down all those memories that cluster 
around it to the pride and glory of the people. 

^KesftOR. And you do not think that, if the State of Alabama had, by the ordinance 
of secession, seceded or attempted to secede from the Union, and had joined her arms 
▼ith those of the people of the Southern States in attempting to make that secession 
jood, that this afforded any pretext or Just cause whatever for the General Government 
to interfere in tbe local amurs of the State of Alabama? 

Answer, I thought that we should have waited until there was an overt act upon the 
part of Mr. Liuc^n bv which the yeace and the liberty and the contentment that were 
tten in our land wou'ld have been interrupted and molested, before we should, have 
contemplated secession. 

QifdHon, You do not comprehend the scope of my question. You were speaking of 
tile intervention by the General Government in the internal affairs of the State of Ala- 
bama, as I understood youi 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Is it your oi>inion thtlt what the State of Al&bama had done, in seceding 
^m the Union and joining the Southern States in attempting to establish and main- 
tain an independent government, afforded no just pretext for the General Government 
to interfere, after the suppression of the rebellion, to restore the Southern States to. 
their normal relations with the General Grovernmentf 

Anmter, That is, after the war f 

QMestum. Yes, sir. 

Ansieer, Well, my opinion about that is that the interference upon the part of the 
General Government in the establishment of State governments and the regulation of 
State affairs was injudicious and improper at the time, for the reason that the people 
ought to have been allowed to estabhsh those governments and regulate their internal 
matters, and thereby secure for the Union, against which there was some prejudice, 
tliat afi'ection and love and interest which would best be secured by that step, ana 
none other. 

Question. You do not think, then, that the people had disqualified themselves in any 
manner, by going into this rebellion, from exercising as they formerly did the elective 
franchise? \ 

Answer, My opinion about that is that we never lost our citizenship in the United 
States Government. 

Question, Do you think those who went into the rebellion committed any crime T 

Answer. Well, sir, from my stand-point, I think they did not. r^^^^^T^ 

ByMr.Bl^Ut: Digitized by l^OO^lC 

Question. If the Sonator will allow me to interrupt him, suppose they had committed 


» crime, was there any wav ancler the Constitntion of the United States bj which they 

could be punished except by trial in court f 
Answer. That was the only remedy knowpi to us. 
Question, Known to the Constitution of the United States f 
Anstoer. I am speaking about the Constitution of the United States. 

By theCHAiKMAN: 

Question, Is it your opinion thait those persons who Toluntarily went into the army 
of the Confederate States, for the purpose of establishing and maintaining a confeder- 
ate government, were guilty of the crime of treason f 

• Anstoer. I do not believe that a man who voluntarily went into ^e confederate 
army is guilty of the crime of treason. 

Question. You do not believe, then, that any of the leaders of secession were guilty 
of ti*eason T 

Answer, I do not believe they can be pronounced guilty of treason, unless they are 
tried under the Constitution, and so convicted. 

Question, My question is, whether any who went into this rebellion and fought 
against the Government were, in your opinion, guilty of the crime of tret^n. X am 
not speaking of the mode of trial, or the punishment. 

Answer, You just want my opinion, individually, as t(0 whether I believe a confed- 
erate soldier, by fighting the Government of the United States, thereby was guilty o£ 
treason T i 

Quesiion, Yes. sir. 

Answer. To tnat I answer that I do not believe that he was guilty of treason. 

Question. You think, then, that this rebellion was no crime f 

Answer, Well, sir, from my view of the rights of the States, tly) sovereignty of the 
States, and the Constitution of the American people, I think that if we committed aay 
crime, the Constitution ^jointed out the way in which we should be punished. 

Question, My question is, whether you think any crime v»afi committed f 

Answer. Moral or political, do you mean, Senator f 

Question, I mean to ask you whether any crime was con^itted again^ the laws of 
the country T 

Answer, Not according to our acceptation and interpretation of those laws. 

By Mr. Rice : 

Question, You say that at the time Alabama seceded you did not think there was 
any just cause for her doing so f 

Answer. I certainly did not at the time. 

Question. If she should secede to-day, and raise an aimy, and cosnmoaoe an attack 
on the Government of the United States, would that be. a crime against the laws of 
the United States! 

Answer. You are asking me, now, a question about things t^t are not possible, or at 
least not practicable. 

Question, But you say it was not a crime then, when she had no caus^ for seceding 
I ask if it would be a crime to-day, to do the same thins f 

Answer. My opinion about that is, she has got — if I acknowledged and adnutted ai^ 
such thing as the right of secession — that she has got a much better riff ht to secede to- 
day, by reason of the interfeience of the Federal Government, than she had in li^6l. 

Question. Assuming that you think tliat, would it be a crime, to-day, for her to raise 
an army to resist the United States f 

Answer, I am clear in my opinion about this ; that it would be very wrong for ua to 
attempt anything of that kind. 

Question. WouM it be a crime against the Constitution and laws of the United 

Answer. From my interpretation and acceptation of the Constitution of the United 
States^ these things must be determined by the manner and under the direction of the 
Constitution, as to whether a man commits a crime or not. 

Question. Do you think it would be a crime f 

Answer, The courts must determine that ; it is not for me to say whether it is a 
crime ; I cannot pronounce a man guilty until he is convicted. 

Quesiion, I will assume that he commits a certain act; that they raise an army Uece 
to resist the laws of the United States, and secede ; would that be a orixne agaiiiat the 
Constitution and laws of the United States, in your opinion f 

Mr. Blair. Was it a crime 

The Chairman. Let him answer. 

Answer, I have no hesitation in answering any question you ask me on that sotyeot. 
The only difficulty I have is in understanding you. 

Question. Here is what I mean— and it is with the object of getting at your senti- 
ments, for when we get them we will take them to be the sentiments of a couaiderame 
portion of the people — whether you would think, if the State of Alabama should paais 


„ >ef aeoMsion now, and shonldraiM an army and resist the laws of tbe 

halted States, and the forces o£ the United States, it wonld l)e committing ao j offense 
or crime asainst the C<mstitation and laws of the United States. 

Amw tr . Mj answer to that is this, that the war settled all questions of secession and 
its right. 

QiuiHoiL Ba yon think it wonld be a crime now f 

JiiMMr. If we oome forward and attempt to do i^at which we surrendered and sub- 
Botted to in onr surrender at Appomattox, it wonld be doing that which was wrong, 
be<aHise it would entail punishment and suffering on the people without any hope of 
aooofflplishing anything. 

Qumtknu would it be a crime f 

Anawer. If you ^ilnk dlAnnion is a crime, yon tak^ it as such. 

Qfut^tm, Ton put it on the ground of policy— entailing snffering j I put it on the 
oiJrar Tiew. Even if you had as good, fttr ho|>es of the success of secession as you 
had in IQ&L or better, would it be a crime to undertake it f 

Answer. I must confess that I am at a very great loss to answer a question based 
Vfon a supposition which has no feasibility nor practicability in it whatever ; I do 
not know now to define what is • crime nudcr such a question. I wish you to remem- 
ba that in 

QtutHon. You cannot say whether It would be a crime or not T 

Aiuwer. I cannot answer a question based upon a supposition which has nothing 
feasible nor practicable in it whatever ; to such a question, I do not know how to define 
what a crime is ; I have heretofore answered that the question of the right of seces- 
aon has been settled by the issue of this war, which I believe the people of all Ala- 
bama accept in good faith ; and that to make an eftbrt to carry the State of Alabama 
oat of tbe Union again would be wron^, for the reason, that it would be in opposition 
to tiiat which has already been settled by the arbitrament of the sword ; it would be 
tiOb and useless, and would probably entail upon our people great suffering and great 
privations, and great hardships, without the slightest benefit coming to them from it. 

QutUmu The question I ask yon is, whether that wrong would amount to a crime 
agamst the laws of the United States ; you admit there would be a wronj;. 

Answer. If I was oi} the Supreme bench of the United States I would give a Judicial 
opinion as to what a crime was. 

QiuBikm, Can vou not give one here as well as if yon were there f 

Anncer. I think not. 

QuesMon. You C4mnot give that opinion f 

Answer. Not on what the Constitution of the United States is. 

By the Chairman : 

Quttiom. Did the people of Alabama throughout the rebellion levy war against the 
Uoited Stateftf 

Ansicer. Tfaev made war against the Government of the United States. 

Qass^om. Did the i)eoi4e of South Carolina levy war against the United States when 
they fired upon Fort Sumter f 

Answer, lliat was a declaration of war— so understood to be. 

QnesHom. Now, Mr. Kichardson, I ask yon, as you are an intelligent gentleman and a 
lawyer, whether treason against the United States does not consist in levying war 
•gatast them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort T 

Answer. I believe that to be the commonly accepted definition. 

QnesHom. Is not that the definition written down in the Constitution itself f 

Answer. I so understand it to be ; and that is the definition given by all law-writers 
vpsfk that subject. 

QuesHom. Accepting that as the definition of treason, did not the people who volun- 
tarily entered into tliis war against the Government of the United States commit 

Answer. That would involve the question. Senator, of the right the people have to 
rerolutionize ; that is said to be one of the inalienable and inherent rights of the people. 

(inestion. Does it cease to be treason because it is revolution f Is it not still levying 
war against the United States f 

Anmser. It nright be so considered, and I so consider it myself, as being a resistance 
to tyranny ; but in resisting tyranny, and attempting to preserve our inalienable rights 
as a people, I do not think we commit treason. 

Qwestist^. You do not think that levying war against the United -States under the 
eiieuoistances that Alabama and other Soufhem States levied war was treason f 

Answer. I think it is treason from your stand-point — ^from the stand-point of certain 
politieal parties. It is not treason from my stand-point as a Southern soldier. • 

^wsHon. Isit treason firom the stand-point of the Constitution of the United States f 

An swer. Are yon msking now for my own mere iudividnal opinion as to what Reason 
hotmj opiBioa based upon what has been acy udicated and decreed to ke treason by 
tha SQVrts of tbe United States f ti^ed by ^^ . 


Question. You may give both, if you please ; yoa are not limited ia your aoswer. 

Answer. 1 have Dever seen any case or cause a4jadicated ia tlie courts of the United 
States where any man |iakiog part in the war on the side of the South has been ad- 
judged a traitor ;. none of our prominent, or public, or leading men have been'deolared 
by any Judicial proceeding to be traitors by reason of their part and their conduct in 
behalf of the confederate army. 

Question. This lenient Government has qever put any of them upon triiJ for treason T 

Answer. Mr. Davis. 

Question, Was he put upon trial ? 

Answer. He was arrai^ed for treason f 

Question. Was he triea t 

Answer. My recollection of that matter, from what I have read, is that Mr. Davis was 
never thoroughly tried ; that he was frequently arraigned before the court, and £rom 
the newspaper reports ne was anxious and ready for trial. 

By Mr. Blair : 

Question. Did not the court decide that the fourteenth amendment, in imposing a 
puuisbn^ent upon him for his treason by depriving hiqpi of the rights of a citizen, ha^ 
inflicted one punishment and could not inflict any of the others 7 

Answer. That certainly is my recollection of what the court decided, and that was the 
cause of the trial not ha\ing been carried through. That is the only case, or the case 
that nearest approached a tnal, and a definition of what treason was so far as partici- 
pation in the confederate cause involved treason, that I have ever heard ofl 

By the Chairman : 

Question. I am not speaking now about the punishment of treason, or whedier the 
fourteenth amendment sheltered Mr. Davis from a conviction of the crime of treason. 
I simply wanted to have your opinion whether Mr. Davis, in what he did during thi^ 
rebellion, from Its inception to its close, ever committed the crime of treason agains^ 
the United States? 

Anstoer. 1 think cot, sir ; for the reason that Mr. Davis was exercising the right that 
every citizen has to revolutionize. 

Question. If that right then existed, Mr. Bichardson, in 1861, 4t exists now, does it 

Answer. I believe that is one of the natural rights that God has given us. 

QuesHon. There is nothing in your judgment, Uien, that would make it a crime in the 
people of the State of Alabama to rebel again at any time when they thought they 
had sufficient cause ; do I understand you correctly f 

Answer. Not to that extent. 

Question. Please explain, then, what you mean. 

Anstoer. If the people of Alabama were tyrannized over by those in authority over 
them, and their liberties were endangered, and they were to be oppressed, about to be 
deprived of those rights which God gives us as natural rights, the right of liber ty, the 
right of life, and the right of property, I believe, under such circumstances as ^ose, 
any aM every people, tne people of Alabama, and the people of Pennsylvania, or any 
other State, have a right to rise up in their strength and set aside those who oppress 
them and attempt to take away their liberties. 

Question. They could only be tyrannized over by the execution of constitutional laws^ 
in the framing of which the State of Alabama had a part, could they f 

Answer. If Alabama had a part in framing the law, and her people were represented 
in fi*aming that law, I should think she would have no right afterwai'd to resist it. She 
would be estopped from complaining of it. 

Qtiestion. Was not the State of Altibama in Congress, and had she not a fuU voice in 
the framing of the laws at the time Alabama seceded in 1861 f 

Answer. Alabama had certainly been represented iu the Congress of the United States 
from the time of her admission into the Union iu 1819 — at least history so reports it — 
up to the d^of her secession. 

Question. What tyranny had been exerted over the people of Alabama at the time she 
went into the rebellion in 1861 T 

Answer. I have stated two or three times that I did not think Alabama had a right 
to secede formerly. 

By Mr. Rice : 

Question. Had she a right to revolutionize at that timef 

Answer. I have also stated that I believed it was the inaUenable and natural right of 
etery f^ple to revolutionize when there was just cause for it, but there was no just 
cause tor revolution or for secession then. Therefore, I believe — and I tMuk it was the 
opinion of the people 1 have associated with, and the opinion of the miyority of Koitb 
Alabama— that there was no cause either for secession or revolution in 1861. 

Question. Then how do you come to the conclusion that when they levied^^ar against 


the QoYenUnent, if they bad no cause for ifc, they were not gniKy of treason if they 
kried that war without cause f 

Antwer. Ton must remember that between that time and the firing upon Fort Sumter 
75,000 men had been called out. 

By the Chatrman; 

Quegthn. But I understood you to say this 75,000 had been called out pursuant to 
m act of Congress to which Alabama had given her consent ; is not that so? 

Answer, I stated, according t-o my recollection of that order — ^it was amidst a great 
deal of excitement — ^that Mr. Lincoln in it recited his authority for calling out the 
troops, and said it was for the suppression of revolts, /ebellion, note, tS&c., that existed 
in certain parts of the country. • 

Question. Does not every sovereign government possess the same power that was ex- 
ercised by Mr. Lincoln? 

Answer, I believe that it does. 

QmsHou, Is not such a power necessary to the existence of the Government — ^the 
power to call upon the people to maintaiu the supremacy of the laws, and to put down 
msarrection against those laws? 

Answer. Well, if I were to answer that question in full, it would carry me back to a 
recital of what limited knowledge I have of what the franiers of our Constitution in- 
tended in its organization in the begiimin^^. 
. Quention, WeU, I do not care about opening that wide field. 

Answer, I know you do not want that. As to the rights of the States and the rights 
of the General Government 

ByMr. Blaib: 

Question. I woold ask if there were not a largo number, probably a preponderance of 
the people of the Southern States, who held the doctrine that, under the Constitution 
of the United States, they had the right of peaceable secession T 

Answer. There was a large number of them ; a minority thought that way. 

Question. That doctrine of State sovereignty hud been propagated in this country for 
thirty odd years t 

Answer, Yes, sir, by the leading men of the land. 

Question. It was assumed that it had the right f 

Answer. Yes, sir, to peaceably secede. 

Question. And I understand you to say now that that pretension of theirs was sub 
mitted to the arbitrament of the sword, and decided against them : and that now the 
I>eople of the Southern States no longer hold that there is any sucn doctrine or right 
as that of peaceable secession f 

Answer. That is my opinion. 

Question. They consider that decided by the arbitrament of war t 

Answer. We consider that question settle<l by the arbitrament of the sword ; that it 
is no longer a question in this country, and there are no political adherents to such a 

Question, The Senator claims that it was the leniency of the Government that for- 
bade the trial and conviction of large numbers of the people of the South, who wei*e 
involved in this rebellion, for treason. Is it not regarded, on the contrary, as anything 
but leniency to violate tne Constitution and pass a bill of attainder depriving vast 
nmnbers of the citizens of the South of their rights withoul a trial ? 

Answer. It is so regarded by the masses of the people with whom I am acquainted — 
that it is anything in the world bu.t leniency to pass such a bill of attainder, and deprive 
them of their rights without a titEil. 

Question. If the leaders in this rebellion had been tried, convicted, and punished, 
would it not have been regarded by the entire South as more in accordance with our 
Constitution, more in accordance with the dictates of humanity, than to proceed, in vio* 
lation of the Constitution, to punish them without a trial T 

Answer. We would have looked upon the trial of our leaders, even their conviction 
of treason, as less a privation and loss a punishment than this wholesale deprivation of 
onr rights as citizens, arid forbidding our leading men, many of them, to hold office and 
exercise the rights of citizenship, without giving us a trial at all. 

Question, Could there have be^n a more inf^ous imposition upon these people than 
to make them the prey of adventurers and plunderers, as has been done by the recon- 
stmction acts of Congress f 

Answer. I do not think that any punishment could have been devised '^'hich would 
have been, by our people, considered more severe, more degrading, and more humili- 
ating to the people, than that act by which was thrust' upon the people, and int% their 
oflSces, men who were unworthy of the trust, men who were strangers to us, and men 
who created discord, dissatisfaction, and discontent throughout the whole laud. I say 
our people consider that the greatest punishment that could have beeu placed upon 
them, l^ey look upon it as a great iniquity, from which all of our evils flow. 


By the Chaibman : 

Question. Yoa speak of the wholesale depii vationff of the lights of your pe<^le. What 
do yoa mean by that f 

Answer. I mean by that, that soon after the war no man could exercise the right of 
citizen^ip or hold office who had held a certain grade in the confederate army. 

Question. Had they not all renounced their citizenship of the United States when they 
went into the rebellion f 

Answer. I think not. 

QuestUm. Did they stiUi while rebelling against the (Government, claim to be citizens 
of the United States or oitiiens of the conf^erate gorernment f 

Answer. They claimed to be citizens of the confederate government. 

Question. Then, had they not renounced their citizenship in the United States? 

Answer. Because they wdie taxed— they were called upon to admit the confederate 
government, and as such, they were citizens de facto. 

Question. De facto of the confederate government f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. 1 am peaking of those who willinely entered the confederate army for tho 
purpose of resisting the Government of the itnited States. Did they still claim to be 
citizens of the United States, entitled to the rights and privileges of citizens of the 
United States? 

Anstver. Well, my answer to that question is this. Senator : There is something reci^ 
rocal in citizenship. In order to citi^nship, to discharxring the duties of citizenship, 
we are entitled to the protection of the Government. The Government had ceased to 
give us protection ; therefore we were not citizens. 

Question. Was not the Government fighting to give you protection and restore the 
supremacy of the law^ throughout all these Southern States f 

Answer. That was claimed to be the purpose and object of the war— to suppress the 

Question. And restore the supremacy of the laws t 

Answer. And restore the supremacy of the laws. 

Question. Was not the Government^ then, doing all it could to extend to you all the 
rights and benefits of citizenship f 

Answer. Well, sir, I suppose that the Union army, from its condition and bearing, so 
far as my knowledge goes, upon the battle-field, was doing everything it could ; be- 
cause they fought gallantly and earnestly whenever I saw them, and I nave no reason 
to believe that they were not true and zealous in attempting to put down the rebellion. 

Question. Now^ to go back to that question which I put t^ you, and which you have 
not answered, and to which I desire an explicit answer : Did those meu who volunta- 
rily entered the army of the Confederate States, and took up arms a^inst the General 
Government, and fouffht the General Government, claiin, during all that time, to be 
citizens of the United States T* 

Answer. They did not. They did not daim to be citizens of the United States. 

Question. Did they not, by the strongest implication, renounce all claim to citizen- 
ship T Did they look to the General Government for protection f 

Answer. No, sir: they did not look to the General Govepiment of the United States 
for protection. They looked to the Confederate States government for protection, be- 
cause I considered myself a citizen de facto. My citizenship was in abeyance to the 
United States Government. It was to be determined by the result of that war whether 
I was a citizen of the United States or not. 

Question. Were you fightine for the purpose of destroying that citizenship in abey- 
ance, or for the purpose of being restored a^in to the citizenship of the United States f 

Answer. 1 was fighting for the purpose of establishing a separate and independent 
government from the united States Government. If we had succeeded, J would 
certainly have lost my citizenship in and allecpance to the United States Government. 
But. having fiuled, that abeyance which I spoke of was determined, and it placed me 
back exactly where I started — a citizen of tne United States Government. 

Question. Ton think yon became, ipso facto, immediately restored to all the rights of 

Anewer. I think so. 

Question. Ton think your efforts during three or four years, more or less, to dissolve 
the Union and to establish a separate govemnicnt, did not divest you of a single right 
of citizenship as a citizen of the Unit^ States f . 

Answer. Under the Constitution, I do not believe it did. 

By Mr. Blaib : 
Qu0tion. Unless convicted in court t 
Anewer. I mean that. 

By the Chairman : ^g,.^^^ ^^ GoOqIc 

Question. Yon say yon were approached by the Ku-Klnx, and desired to Join tlieir 
organization t 


Jntwer, I was, sir. 

Qme$Uon, More than once f 

J»«fo*. I recollect to have been approached at one time. 

QuesUon, At what time was that f 

Jmncar. My befit recollection, Senator, is, that that was in the fall of 1808. 

Quettiom^ ij a leader in the Klan f 

Answer. I will give the circumstances. 

QwBsUon. If you please. 

AHswer, I was in my office alone and a gentleman came in, a stranger to me, closed 
the door behind him, and gave other evidence that he desired secrecy and^rivacy in 
the matter, which attracted my attention. I asked him to take a seat ; he pulled a 
paper out of his pocket and handed it to me. I asked him where he came from. He 
said from Limestone County, in the neighborhood of Saline Springs ; that he was there 
for the purpose of organizing den number something, I have forgotten the number, 
in Limestone County, and that he wanted me to give him a *' precept.'' I told him I 
knew uothiug about any such organization ; that I was not acquainted with it ; that 
I waa not a member of it, aud I had no authority in the matter, whatever. He then 
said to me, *^ You need not be afraid of me,'' or something in words to that effect ; '* I 
am ^1 right; yon need not have any suspicion of ma ;' I nave got the papers wit a mo 
which show that I am one of you," talking to me as though I was one of them. Ho 
then gave me a certificate, saying that he was a member of the Ku-Klux ; that he was 
an ri^ht, sind was a member of tne Ku-Klux Klan, and wanted to organize a den, say- 
ing what number, &c., thwe in Limestone, where I was very well acquainted. 

Question, You were then living in Huutsvillo f 

jlimcer. I was living here, but I was raised there, and mixed up in politics there, and 
knew them all. I then questioned him particularly abont that neighborhood. He 
mentioned several names of citizens living there ; I told him it was singular I had 
never met him ; that I knew the people of that neighborhood very well ; I had 
canvassed there and knew them thoroughly, and it was singular I had never met him. 
He then pulled out a blue book with all the orders, and forms, and symbols, and by- 
laws. I looked at it, and told him I knew nothing about them whatever, aud that he 
must excuse me from having any further interview with him on that subject ; that I 
was not a Kn-Klux, and had no right or authority to give him any privilege to organ- 
ke any den whatever. Ho then left me; he went down on the streets ; I staid in my 
office five or ten minutes and got to thinking about it, and I apprehended that he was 
Knt there for a purpose, because he was a stranger. He had alleged that he had come 
from a certain part of Limestone County, with the people of which I was well ac- 
quainted, and I had never heard of his name. I apprehended that there was some pur- 
pose to get me committed if I was a Ku-Klux, and thereby get me in trouble. I went 
down, on the streets to hud hin> and he was gone. I never saw that man from that day to 
this. My opinion is that, in that instance, there having been a rumor circulated here, 
by reason of my going down that night and holding conversation with that Ku-Klnx 
proceesion — with some man unkuown. to me, advising him to leave the town — that I was 
c^nected with the organization, and particularly as coming from Limestone County ; 
and Colonel Bradley, a republican, having told me I was in danger of being arrested, 
mentioning ui^ name in connection with that circumstance and some other names, and 
laying he believed I was not a Ku-Klux. I believe the approach this man made to 
me was to find out whether I was really a Ku-Klux or not, and to have me indicted, 
and give me trouble. 

Question. Was this the first and only application ever made to you to become a mem- 
ber of that Klan f 

Answer, No, sir ; there was an application made to me, not directly ; I accepted it 
as an application, at least I thougtit it was, because I supposed they approached men 
cautioosiy to find out their views before a direct offer was made } 1 understood it was 
an offer to me to join the Ku-Klux made here in this connty. 
Quesiian. When was that Y 

Answer. In 1868, 1 think; I know it was earlier than this affair I spoke of. It was 
not made in words plain and unmistakable, for the reason that I had expressed myseli 
as being decidedly in opposition to the organization, believing it would result in harm 
and be an injury to the people. 
Question. Have you ever read the constitution of the order? 
Answer. I have never read it. 
Qne^tion. Have you ever read its obligation f 
Answer. 1 have never read it. 

Question. Do you know who were its leaders in this part of the State f 
Answer. I do not. 

QmeBtion. Have you no Information upon that subject f 
Answer. I have my suspicions. 
Ouestion. Are your suspicions founded on what you regard as reliable fnformation f 

TT. They are not. ^gtzedW^ 



Question, Are tbey mere suBpicions ? 

Anstoer, Mere suspicions and coi^ectures on my own part, for this reason : I believe a 
great many of the young men of this country at that time were in that organization, and 
my sentiments here were so publicly expressed about that, tbat they eschewed any in- 
terview or intercourse with me on*that subject, and all I did gather as to who the 
leaders were or who were conducting it, was mere rumor, which I do not think was 

Question, Have yon any information as to the strength of the order in Madiaon 
County in the year 1868 1 

Answer,0o, sir ; I have not any information as to its strength. I could make a sor- 

Question, Give us the benefit of the beet opinion you have on that subject 

Answer, The best opinion on that subject, I thiuk, is that the Ku-Klux organization 
displayed ita strength here the night of that riot, in 1868. 

QuesUon, For the entire county T 

Answer, I think so. 

Question, I understood you to say there were about one hundred to one hundred and 
ftily of them. 

An9wer, I do not think there were over one hundred and fifty. 

Question, What leads you to suppose that the entire strength turned out that nigfat f 

Answer, Well, as I stated just now, it was a mere matter of surmise on my own part, 
of the vaguest conjecture ; they did not talk to me on that subject. 

Qttestion, Do you know how they happened to appear in the streets of Hnntsville 
that night f 

Anstoer, My opinion is, they were induced to come here by reason of the threats that 
had been made that they could not come here. 

Question. When were those threats made f 

Answer, On that day, Saturday. 

Question, Do you think theee threats could have reached the Ku-Elux in all parts of 
the county f 

Answer, I think roost of the Kn-Klux in Madison County were within the corporate 
limits of Huntsville. 

Question, Who made those threats f 

Answer, They were made variously and at divers places during the day, by negroes. 
I think Mr. Sheets said they dared not come here ; that they could go into Florence. 

Question, Then you think that company that made the procession that night were 
men who belonged to the town of Huntsville f 

Answer, A great many of them were ; that is m^ opinion ; there is nothing definite 
about that, Wause I did not know them. My views were in opposition to theirs ; 
they would not talk to me ; there may have been some of my companions and asso- 
ciates who were in that organization ; I do not know ; they knew my sentiments, and, 
of course, avoided conversation with me on that subject. 

Question, How many troops were here at that time Y 

Anstoer, I think there was a regiment. ^ 

Question, Where were they stationed t 

Answer, They were stationed, I understood, a half a mile west of the town, on the 
property owned by Mr. Rhett; there was a guard, I do not know of how many men it 
consisted, one block from the square, the Calhouu House. 

Question, On that night f 

Answer, On that night. 

Question, How large was that detachment f 

Answer, I do not know ; there was always a guard about there ; I do not know how 
many were kept there. 

Quoslion. Do you think the presence of the troops that night had any induence upon 
the rutirinff of the Ku-Klux Rlan f 

Answer, Well, sir, I am inclined to think it had. I know I stated to those men with 
whom I conversed, that the troops would lie on the square, and that it would be their 
duty to tAke steps against them, and that would bring about a very unfortunate con- 
flict. And now I remember, this man stated to me as we stood there, that they did 
not desire any conflict with the United States troops — none at any time. 

Question. Do yon think they were strong enough to have met the United States 
troops upon equal terms T 

Anewer, O, no, sir ; nothing like it. 

QuiCstUm, It is possible, then, that their withdrawal was influenced somewhat by the 
fact that they would get into a collision with the United States troops if they under- 
took to Are on the negroto T 

Anetoer, 1 think they were influenced by that fact, becans^ I stated it to them. I 
think they stated that they did not want any conflict with the United States troops; it 
would bring punishment upon the people, and be an unfortunate affair to the conunn- 
Aity . In addition to that, I told them not to couie back, because they would get into eon- 


flict with the citizens and involve bloodshed, and probably the town would be fired, 
and great evil wonld resnlt. 

Qnetiion. I wish you would look over the preamble of this act of the legislature of 
Alabama for the suppression of secret organizations of men disguising themselves for 
purposes of crimes and outrages, approved December 26, 1868 ; and after you have read 
it over, I will ask you a question based upon that act. 

Answer. [After reading it.] I have read it. 

Question. I desire to ask you whether the condition of things in Alabama recited in 
this preamble was true at that time f 

Answer. I do not believe that this preamble was true at the time, and%et I would 
rather have that law to remain among the State laws of Alabama to-day than not ; 
yet I do not believe that at the time ofits passage that preamble was true. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Quesiion. Was not the law very bitterly assailed and denounced throughout the 
State at the time of its passage by the Alabama legislature f 

Annoer. It was. 

Question. Especially by the democratic party. and democratic partisans? 

Answer. It was assailed and denounced by reason of its recital of what purported t-o 
be the truth, but which we considered was false. , 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Did you not believe there was a secret organization in many parts of the 
State, formed of men who, under the cover of masks and other disguises, and armed 
with knives, revolvers, and other deadly weapons, issued from the places of their ren- 
dezvous in bands, mounted on horses, disguised, in the hours of the night, and that 
they committed violence and outrages upon peaceable and law-abiding citizens— do 
you not believe that that was true at that timet 

Answer, I believe there was an organization, say, in the county of Madison, at that 
time, that went in disguise, I do not believe, as that preamble recites, that houses were 
pillaged and that lawlessness of that kind was committed. 

By Mr. Buckley: 
QuesUon, Did they go armed? 
Answer, 1 never saw them bat once. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. THy you speak now for the whole State of Alabama? 

Answer. I do not. 

Quesiion. For what part do you speak ? 

Answer. 1 speak more particularly for the counties of Limestone, Madison, Lawrence, 
Lauderdale, Morgan, and Franklin. 

Question. Do you not believe there were such disguised bands in existence in attthose 
eoQDties at that time ? 

Answer. I believe there were in Limestone and in Lauderdale ; as to whether they 
WCTe Ln Colbert I have no opinion. 

Question. You believe they were in existence in Madison? 

Answer. Yes, sir; I have stated that already. 

Question. Do you believe they entered the houses of peaceable citizens in the hours 
of night while they were thus masked, disguised, and arm^? 

Answer. I have heard of their doing it. 

Question. Do you not believe they were mounted upon horses that were disguised ? 

Answer. I do. 

Question. And that they rode about the country ? 

Answer. I saw them riding through this town. 

Question. Did they ride about the country, too ? 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. If they did not enter the houses of people, what was their mission ? what 
were they riding through the country in disguise for ? 

Anstcer. The only time I ever saw them armed was here in HuntsviUe, when they 
came, in my opinion, by reason of the threats that had been.made. 

QvesUon. You have told us about that ; I do not care about that transaction. Have 
you any information of their riding about the country ? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; in Limestone County. 

Question. What was their mission there? 

Answer. I do not know ; they rode into Athens and rode out without any guns. 

Question. Is that the only instance you have heard? 

Answer. I was at a public meeting near Willow Springs, in Limestone Cointy. When 
^tey came np, I was speaking. They rode within ten or fifteen steps of the st^d, an*' 
eMted merriment among the women and children ; they were unarmed. 


Question, Have you not heard of many instances where ineD, disguised, mounted, aud 
armed, have molested peaceable people in the night-tin^3 1 

Answer, I have heard of various instances where the Ku-Klus were charged to have 
taken men out and whipped them. 

Question. Do you not believe these accounts to be true f 

Answer. I do not, iu all instances. 

Question, How do you distinguish between the true and the false t 

Answer, For this reason, that 

Question, I am speaking of instances of outrages committed within the last eighteen 

Answer, I do not remember of any outrages committed about that time, in 1868, when 
that act was passed. I could refresh my memory. Doubtless there are some, but the 
outrages conmiitted witliin eighteen months, I think, have been committed by high- 
waymen and robbers. 

Question, At ifbe time this act was passed, do you think that would have been put on 
the statute-book uuless there was such a«coudition of thiuj^ as is recited in it ? 

Answer, I do not think the fact that it is on the statute-book is an evideuco that it 
is true, for the reason that the Alabama legislature was then composed of the descrip- 
tion of men I have briefly described to this committee, aud who created such dissatiti^ 

Question, Do you believe that the recitals of this preamble were wholly false T 

Answer. I have not said so. 

Question, Do you believe they were partly so t 

Anstcer, 1 believe it was true to this extent, that there was a secret organization in 
this State at that time, that rode about on horses, disguised themselves, aud their 
horses disguised. 

Question, What were they doing t 

Amwer. What they did was mere hearsay. They were reported to have taken people 
out at different times. Whether they did it or not, I do not know. 

Question, Taken them out from where? 

Atisicer. From their premises and homes. 

Question, What then f 

Answer, I do not know. 

Question. What was it said they were taken out for T 

Ansiaer, One thing and another. In one instance that occurred up here in the 
northern paii; of the county, they said they took a fellow out because he interfered 
with his neighbors' labor-system. 

Question, What was done with the people taken out of their homes f 

Answer, According to what I heard ? 

Question, Yes, sir ; according to your information. 

Answer. I heard that — ^for iustance, the man taken out in the northern part of this 
county — it was said that he was whipped, because he interfered with his neighbors' 
labor^ystem. Whether truly or not, I do not know. 

Question, Was he a white man f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Were these outrages i-eported in the newspapers at the timof 

Answer. I thiuk Mr. Figures reported almost all of them. 

Question, Did the democratic newspapers publish accounts of these outrages t 

Anstcer, Really, I could not tell; I do not remember. Mr. Young was a democratic 
editor, and Mr. Clay, here. I do not know whether they reported them or not. 

Question, Mr. Figures was the republican editor t 

Anstcer, Y'es, sir. 

Question. He reported them 1 

Answer, I remember he repoi-ted this case ; it may be Mr. Young did too. 

Question, If there were other outrages committed by these disguised bands in the 
night or day time, the democratic papers of Huntsvillo did not report their existence t 

Answei', I say I do not know whether they reported them or not. 

Question. Were you not a reader of the papers t 

Anstcer, One of them. 

Question. You kuow whether that paper reported them or not f 

Answer, The reason I remember that Mr. Figures has been iu the habit of reporting 
these cases was, it was for the purpose of making political capital of them. 

Question, Do you think the cases be reported were false or true ? 

Answer, Well, sir, I do not know whether they were false or not. I have no recol- 
'.ection. • 

Question, Did the democratic paper report the same cases Mr. Figures reported t 

Answer. I said my opinion was Mr. Figures reported these cases, and that is my best 
recollection. I cannot specify. 

Qui:stion. My questi.>:) is, whether the democratic paper you read repoi'ted the same 
cases of outrages that Mr. Figures'e paper reported. 


Jmwer. John W. young was the democratic He was not very apt at 
getting np incidents. He was not a very good editor, and I do not know whether ho 
reported them or not. I know there was a great complaint here for a long time about 
YonDg publishing a bad paper. Whether he reported these various incidents or not, I 
cannot say. If I were to state from the best of my recollection and ray impression 
about the matter, I would state that Toung reported some of them ; at least, such as 
he could hear of. 

QuitioH. He must have heard of them at the time they were committed f 

Answer, He may have heard ; I cannot state. I would pick up his paper and read it 
m the morning at breakfast ; and even if he did report them, I would forget it in an 
boor or two. 

Question, So you have not any recollection whether the democratic paper here re- 
ported these cases as they occurred or not f 

Answer, I have not any recollection whether it did or not. 

Question, But you have a recollection that the republican paper did T 

Answer, My general impression is, that Mr. Figures generally reported these cases. 

Question, Why could you remember the printed matter of Mr. Figurcs's paper rather 
tban the democratic paper f 

Answer^ Simply for the reason we believed — the democrats here — that Mr. Figures was ' 
reporting all these cases for the purpose of political aggrandizement and political ends. 

Question, Why did not your democratic paper, if the cases Mr. Figures reported 
were untrue, contradict f 

Answer. I have not said the cases Mr. Fignres's paper reported were untrue. 

Question, Do you think they were true ? 

Answer, I have no opinion on that subject. 

Question, You read tuem in that paper f 

Answer. WelU yes, sir; I have seen some of themr I cannot tell you now what cases 
1 have seen in his paper. 

QuesUon, Were the cases he reported denounced at the time as untruths, as fklse- 

Answer, I cannot answer whether they were denounced as untrue or not. I remem- 
ber to have conversed with Mr. Figures on one occasion about a case that took place in 
Limestone County, and to have told him what I believed, was the correct version of 
the matter. 

Question, You say the laws are not executed promptly and efficiently. I under8too<l 
yon to make that answer to a question by General Blair. Did you refer to the present 

Answer, I did not ; I referred to the past. I was questioned by General Blair as to 
the efficiency with wbich the law was executed in this and other counties, and I stated 
I did not believe the laws were executed efficiently under the administration of Joseph 
P.Doyle, who is sheriflf of Ma^lison County. 

Question, Is Mr. Doyle a northern or southern man t 

Answer, A southern man— a republican. 

Question, How lon^ since he vacated the office f 

Answer, I think it is six or eight months since. 

QuesHon, Up to that period the laws were not executed promptly and efficiently t 

Answer, I do not thiuK they were. 

QuesUon, Did I understand you to say you do not know of a single instance in Mad- 

■on County where a man has been brougnt to trial and conviction for having commit-. 
ted an outrage upon property, person, or life, in connection with these disguised bands 

Answer, I stated that divers parties had been arraigned. 

Question. My (question is, whether there has been a single conviction in this county of 

a Diau because of his being connected with these disgui^ bands of men. 
Answer. 1 have not heard of a single conviction, nor db I know of one ; but I do 

know of several trials that have taken place here, of men charged with having com- 
mitted offenses, under the Ku-Klux law. 
Question. Do you draw the inference from that, that no such outrages have been 

committed, or that they have been committed under such circumstances that the proof 

of the guilt of the accused could not be obtained T 
Answer. My conclusion upon that is, that the trial established the innocence of the 

parties charged. 
QuGition. Do you draw the inference from that that no Ku-Klux outrages have been 

committed in Madison County f 
Answer. I do not. 

Question, You think, then, such outrages have been committed t 
Answer. 1 do think, under that law of 1868, that men, according to that law, nave 

mcnned its penalty ; they have gone in disguise ; they have ridden disguised through 

the country on horses disguised, and, according to that law, they have incurred its 



Question. But in no other way than having worn disgnises, and ridden through the 
country T 

Anmoer. I do not know of any outrage, Senator, that has been committed ; therefore 
I could not pass upon the innocence or the ffuilt of a party. I do not know of any my- 
self. I have heard that A and B, C and D liave suffered in such and such a way from 
disguised men. I take it for panted that the officers of the law should do their duty. 
It is always considered so until the contrary is shown. 

Question, Then you disbelieve these reports f 

Anewer. As to the truth of them f 

Queetion. Yes, sir, 

Answer, I did disbelieve them as a general thing, because I thought they were cireu- 
lated for political purposes. 

By Mr. Rice: 

Question, State if. in these trials, these men did not prove that an offense had been 
committed under toe law, and was. it not a lack of proof to identify those who com- 
mitted it that caused the acquittals? 

Answer. I will answer by referring a^ain to the case of Martin, who was tried here, 
and another eentleman whose name I have forgotten. They were charged with hav- 
ing committed an offense under the Ku-Klux act ; that was, shooting a negro named 
Prior Turner. It was clearly proven, beyond question, that the necro was shot ; but 
who shot him, how he was shot, and when he was shot, were not at fOl proved ; and Mr. 
Figures, who was the justice of the peace, discharged those parties on account of the 
lack of that proof. Turner did not show iiow he was shot, when he was shot, or who 
shot him, but the fact was shown in court that he was shot. 

Question. Bat the offenses in all these trials are proved, yet they fail to show who 
committed them. They prove that the violence has been committed f 

Answer. I do not know that they do in all cases. 

Question. As far as you know f 

Answer. In that one they did. The physician testified to it, and there was Turner 
on the stand, who showed the wound, but who he was shot by was not proven. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Then you kre not satisfied, as I understand you, from the information that 
has come to you, that those outrages have been committed by men in disguise, banded 

Afiswer. 1 am not satisfied, Senator, that the various rumors about outrages are 
all true ; and am not at all satisfied that they were all committed by the Ku-Klux or- 

Question. I am not inquiring just now what names the organizations were known by, 
or for what purpose they wore organized ; I was simply inquiring wbetlior you believe 
the fact to have existed in the past, tbat numerous people were visited in Madison. 
County, in the hours of night, by bauds in disguise, and taken from their liomos and 
whipped, or otherwise outraged ? 

Answer. Whether I believe what rnmors I heard or not ? 

Question. I did not ask you that question. 1 ask whether you know the fact, that 
numbers of people have been visited iu Madison County, in the hours of the night, by- 
bauds in disguise, and taken from tbcir homes and whipped or otherwise outraged f 

Answer. I did not believe the truth of all the rumors that I heard about people being 
visited at night by disguised men and taken from their homes and whipped and other- 
wise maltreated. 

Question. How do you distinguish between the rumors; give us the rule by whiob 
you distinguish rumors to be believed, and those to be disbelieved ? 

Answer. I distinguish in this way: I knew of one instance where the party charg€»d 
that he was shot by disguised men, and the proof was that the men whom he ohar^^ed 
as having been ther§ in disguise were not there at all. 

Question, Was it proved tliat there were no men there in disguise ? 

Anstoer. The proof in that particular instance was, that from an hour to .an hoar 
and a half, if I recollect right — the trial occurred some time since— from an hoar to 
an hour and a half before certain firing took place in the streets of Madison Station, 
three disguised men were seen to pass through that town. That is my recollection, 
of the proof in that instance. 

Question. What instance do you refer to ? 

Anstoer. The instance of Turner. 

Question. Were they wearing the Ku-Klux disguise ? 

Answer, They were disguisea in some gix)te8quo manner. 

Question. After the similitude of the Ku-Klux ? 

Ansxcer. My recollection is that they had on conical hats and long gowns and their 
horses were not disguised. C^nr\cs\(> 

Question. Is that the common disguise of the Ku-Klux ? ^'^^^ ^^ vjvj^^gis^ 


Aiuwer. it is my recolleotion that they wore tall hats. They rode around the 

aqoaio. They did not have any uniform. As a general thing the En-Klns wear tall 

eonicil hats, and hoods oyer their faces with holes, and long ^owns which are some- 
times black. 
Questim, Did yon ever read the consUtation of the Loyal League f 
Jnwer. I never did. 

QHesiion, Ton never was in one, of coarse f 
Anttrer. I never was. 

Quentian, Yon know nothing, then, of your own knowledge, of their constitution f 
An$wer, I do not. 

QitesHon. Their meetings, however, I understand you to say, were in open daylieht f 
Answer. At one time in Limestone County, in the latter part of 1868, 1 think it 
WM, they held their meetings, if I remember aright, on Saturday evening, in the upper 
room of an old dru^-store. 
Questum. After night T 
Answer. No, sir ; in the day-time. 
Question. Did you ever hear of their meeting after night f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; in this town. 

Question. Did they wear any badges to distinguish them as members of the Loyal 


Anstosr. I have never heard of any. 

Quisstwn. Did they have any disguise f 

Answer. I never heard of any. 

Question. Did they go armed f 

Answer. I understood that at the colored church here, when the League met, senti- 
Beb were stationed — armed men. 

Questhn, Did you understand that the members of the Loyal League were armed — 
that that was one of their rules T 

Answer. 1 have heard that in the election excitement in 1868 they attended their 
meetiogs armed ; that was the general understanding of our people. 

Question. Do you think that all the negroes who belonged to these Loyal Leagnes 
bad arms? 

Answer. I do not know whether they all had arms or not ; I api simply stating what 
^as the current rumor here ; whether it was reliable or true I cannot state. The be- 
lief was that the negroes generally went to the Loyal Leasues armed. 

Question. How do you know it was one of the objects of that Lea^e, if you never 
bave Been its constitution and by-laws, tokistill animosity and prejudice Into the minds 
of the negroes against the native southern white people f 

Answer. I stated that it was my opinion abont the purpose and object of the League. 
It was derived from the common opinion of the public ; and that was, that the object 
aud purpose of the League was to create and establish more firmly the animosity of 
tbe negroes against the native white people of the South. 

Question. When you speak of the opinion of the public, do you mean the opinion of 
the democratic party t 

Answer. I do. 

Question. That, in your definition, means the public f 

Anrwer. The white public here. 

Question. You never heard any republican say, did you, that that was one of the ob- 
jects of this League f 

Answer. I have heard Colonel Nick Davis 

Question. You need not quote him ; we do not recognize him as a republican in good 

Ansvfer, He voted for General Grant and Mr. Colfax, who were the republican can- 

Question. I am asking^-- — 

Answer. Y^ou asked me if I did not hear a republican ; I was going to answer that 
qnestion, when 

Question. I say to you that I disavow Mr. Davis being a republican in good standing, 
recognized by the republican party. I mean to say that I do not want you to quote 
bim as anthority in answer to that q^^estion. 

Answer. Very good, I will not quote him. 

Question. Do you know any recognized republican, acting in harmony with the party, 
who has upon any occasion stated that it was one of the objects of this Loyal League 
to instill animosity and prejudice into the minds of the negroes against the southern 
white people f 

Answer. I do not want to revert to that which the chairman of the committee has 
enjoined upon me not to mention — that is, the standing of Mr. Davis as a republicab 
in tbe republican party of this county. He has been the mouthpiece of the republican 
party in this county for a long time. I have heard him in public speeches ; and if the 


chairman chooses to stop me now Srom telling what he said abont the Loyal League, I 
will stop. 

Queaiion, I prefer thafr-you make your answer to my question by qaoting some other 

Answer, Then I cannot quote any other authority— republican authority. 

Question, 1 think that I understood you to say that you knew of no act of violence 
that was committed under the auspices or authority of this Loyal League? 

Answer. I know of none, sir ; no maltreatment nor any injury done to any person 
that I know of. 

QuesHan. I understood you to say that the Ku-Klux Klan was oi-ganized or formed to 
be a check on the Loyal Leagues and a terror to evil-doers. What do you mean by the 
latter clause T 

Answer, I mean that it was a natural consequence of any such war as the States had 
been engaged in that after its close some people would be lawless, and that tbey would 
be unrestrained. There was no doubt in the world that there were such men in this 
country, and that that was one of the results, and natural results, of a rovolution of 
such magnitude as we had been engaged in. 

Question. Ajid your opinion was that that was one of the objects of the formation of 
the Ku-Kluz Klan f 

Answer. I think that it was formed for the purpose of being a check upon the Loyal 
League, and at the same time to direct and control, in company with the civil law, 
other wrongs, committed, I believe, by certain evil-doers that we're nondescript, so Car 
as political parties were concerned. 

Question. Will you tell how you came to know what the purposes of these Kn-Klux 
were f If, as I understood you to say, you never read their constitution nor by-laws, 
and were not in communication with any of the moml>ers of that Klan, and never re- 
ceived the secrets of their order from them, what means have you then of knowing 
what were the objects of this organization ? 

Anstoer, I have stated two or three times that as for myself I had no connection 
whatever with the Ku-Klux organization. 

Question. So I understood you. 

Answer. That I was not in sympathy with them ; that I was opposed to all secret or- 
ganizations ; and that in view of mv opposition to this orgauizatiou I had declined to 
join them. I have stated, further, tliat all the knowledge and information that I pro- 
tend to give^you about that organization is derived from what the public thinks ; from 
common opinion. I stated that I believed, from all that I had heard about this organ- 
ization, that its object and purpose were to be a check upon the Loyal League and ti» 
be a terror to all evil-doers. I do not know anything abont it ot my own knowledge. 

Question. When you state that your information is derived from public opinion, do you 
mean that portion of the public opinion here known as the conservative or democratic 
party f Do not the republican party hold, and have they not always held, that this 
Ku-Klux organization was formed for political purposes, and its niisdeeds were vis- 
ited almost exclusively upon Union men ? 

Answer. There is no question but that the republican party so considers the Ku-Klux 

Question. When speaking of public opinion you do not mean to include any portion 
of the republican party, do you f 

Answer. I mean simply to say the opinion of this town and men with whom I am aa- 
sociated; and it is from sach sources that I get my information of what the public 
opinion is. If I was speaking as to the character of a man, I would speak as to what 
those thought of him with whom I was associated. 

Question. What I want to get at is, whether, when you speak of the public and the 
opinion of the public, you mean to include the opinion of any portion of the republi- 
can party of Madison County or of Limestone County f 

AnsweTf (after a pause.) I was just attempting to recall whether I had heard any 
republicans give their opinions as to the piuT»ose and object of this organization, and, 
as I stated before, I do not remember to have heard any republican say anything abont 
what the object of this organization was at all. 

Question. You leave the republican element, then, entirely out of the question when 
you speak of public opinion T 

Answer. So far as my knowledge of public opinion goes. 

Qwsstion. What is the comparative strength of the republican party in the county of 
Mtuiison T 

Answer. Well, sir, taking the republican party of whites compared with the demo- 
cratic party in Madison County, I do not think the republican vote of Madison Coanty 
of white people will exceed 150 voters. 

Question. I am speaking of the comparative strength of the entire republican i>arty, 
wlUte and coloi-ed, in Maidison County ? 

Answer. That is a right difficult question for me to answer, for the reason that I am 
bound to base my opimon on the elections, when determining the relative strength of 


tlie two parties. The election for members for the honse of representatives of Alabama 
resulted Id the last election in the election of three democrats, by a minority of, I think, 
between 800 and 1,000. 

Quettion, What was the entire vote polled ? 

Answer. I think the entire vote polled was, to the best of my recollection, between 
four and five thousand— probably five thousand. I cannot be jiositive about these 

Queatian, Ton think the democratic party in Madison County has a clear majority of 
800 or 1,000 1 

Antwer. If I am to take that as a true criterion. 

Question, Do yon accept it as a true criterion f 

Answer, I do not. 

Question. My question is, what is thc/comparative strength of the two parties f 

Answer. I think that at a fair election, untrammeled and uncontrolled by outside in- 
inence, the democratic party would carry the county by a larger vote than that. If 
we are to be influenced and interfered with by parties and persons who are un- 
friendly to the interests of the native southern men, then I say that that minority would 
be reduced ; but if the ne^o was left alone, uninfluenced and untrammeled, bis pas- 
sions not appealed to, I believe the native southern people of Madison County would 
get a beneficial control of him. 

QuesHoH, Yon believe, then, that the influx of white people from the North is hostile 
to soathem interests t 

Answer. Emphatically, I do not. I believe that the people of Madison County wel- 
come northern uien who come here for the purpose of identifying themselves with the 
material interests and prosperity of the country, and who come here, not for the pur- 
pose of taking control of their State and county afiairs, and becoming the givers of 
law while strangers in our midst: if they come peaceably any persons, as is well illus- 
trated by my friends Fordyce ana Day, who come are welcome. 

Question. They are good democrats, are they not f 

Answer. 1 never knew Captain Day's politics until about the last nomination that 
Judge Dox received for Congress. 

(^lesUon. Did not Captain Day come into the State as a carpet-bagger f Has he not 
be^ an office-holder ever since he came into the State f 

Answer. He has been an ofiice-holder ever since he has been in the State, so far as I 
know. I say I did not know his politics until Judge Dox received the last nomination 
of the democratic convention at Gadsden for Congress. That was the first evidence 
ever given to me by Mr. Day that he was a democrat, and I was an intimate associate 
a&d friend of his ; we did not talk politics, and I did not know whether he was a demo- 
crat or republican. His partner was a republican. 

Qmestion. Yon had no idea of his }>olitical sympathies up to that time t 

Answer. None whatever, because I considered as to that thing of discussing politics 
between two young men, I was an associate of his, and respected him ; and simply 
because he had been a United States soldier was no evidence to me that he was not a 
gentleman and could not find a friend. 

Question. You do not think well of northern men who come into the Stat« of Ala- 
bama for the purpose of obtaining office t 

Answer. Who make that the object, and come down here merely for the purpose of 
bolding office, and out of it making money ; I do not think well of what we generally 
term ** carpet-baggers." * 

Question. Do you know it to be a fact that Mr. Day has held office almost ever since 
the lirBt day he set foot in Alabama! 

Answer. I do. I know the fact that Mr. Vandeventer, who is a republican, and lives 
bero in this community, and has been a quiet, worthy, good citizen, was a nortbern 
man, a northern soldier, is a republican to-day, and is greatly respected. 

Question. If Mr. Day, who you say has been an office-holder ever since he came into 
the State of Alabama, had been a rampant republican, do you think he would have 
been agreeable to the taste of native Alabamians. 

Answer. I think if Mr. Day had come here, as others have come, seeking to get into 
office by appealing to the prejudices and to the animosities of the negroes as a hobby 
upon wbicli to ride into office, he would not have been thou|(ht as well of as he is now, 
bpt classed with those who now occupy that position in this community, and who are 
disagreeable and unpleasant, to the people. 

Quettion. Has it commended him to the favor of all good democrats here that he does 
heartily sympathize with the democratic party, and vote for its candidates, and co-op- 
Mate with them f 

Answer. What <;om mended Mr. Day to this community was that he conducted himself 
<nrderly ; he has shown himself to be a gentleman. Notwithstanding the fact that he 
was identified with a regiment raised in the State of Alabama, toward which the peo- 
ple have dislike— notwithstanding all these unfavorable circumstances, he has behaved 
himadf uprightly, courteously, and attended to his business. For this reason Mr. Day 


reeolyed, to an unnsual extent, the hospitality and ooartesy of these people a long time 
before I, as his companion, knew bis political sentiments. 

Question, You think his politics have not had anything to do with his hospitable re- 
ception here f 

Anaioer, His politics have had this tendency, since developed, to throw him more 
intimately with the community at large. I believe that. I do not pretend to say that 
if a man advocates certain political sentiments, it will not secure him, in this country, 
as in any other country, more intimate relations with those who advocate the 
same political views. But 1 say that Mr. Day so conducted himself here, before we 
knew what his politics were, that he was received. I remenibiT to have dis- 
tinctly discussed the fact with an intimate friend when he went to the Gadsden con- 
vention, that that was the first declaration I had ever heard Day make in politics. 
That was when Judge Dox was nominated the last time. 

Qtt68fion. Are men who are bold and outspoken in their opinions and who adTocate 
radical views, respected and esteemed in this community by the opposite party. 

Afuwer, Men who- advocate and boldly speak radical sentiments, and express radi- 
cal views, are not as much esteemed in the community as a man who entertains demo- 
cratic views and sentiments, by the democrats. 
Question, You answer by a comparison f 

Answer, Yes, sir; they are not as much esteemed by the democrats as some other dem« 
ocrat is. At the same time, we have some of our citizens who are republicans, who 
have held those sentiments ever since the war, and who are considered upright and 
honest men, so far as I know. 
Question, They do not talk about politics much, do they ? 

Answer, I do not know any man who talks politics more in North Alabama than 
Colonel Joseph C. Bradley. 
Question. What business is he engaged in f 

Anstver, He is now a commissioner of roads and highways — an officer of the county. 
Question, Suppose Mr. Bradley were engaged in the business of selling goods in 
Huntsville, and was to talk politics over bis counter, day in and day out, expressing 
his views boldly upon all occasions, and advocating repubUcan doctrines, would he be 
patronized by any one outside of his party f 

Answer, You will pardon me for answering — it might savor of levity — that would 
depend entirely on how he sold his goods ; if he sold them cheaper than his neighbor 
democrat, the people would go there and buy. 
Question, And it would not influence his custom f 

Answer, I do not believe it would one bit, simply for the reason we deal hero simply 
with m^n. Mr. Vandeventer is one who has established a store here, and I am a demo- 
crat, and I deal with liim and know he is a republican, and I believe he is getting the 
general patronage of the community, to the exclusion of many men who have been 
ere for many years ; for the reason that Mr. Vandeventer sells cheaper than the 

Question, Other things being equal they would patronize the democratie store, woald 
they not f 

Answer, I suppose they would ; I would myself, other things being equal ; I woald 
rather patronize the men who are co-operating and svmpathizing with me, and attempt- 
ing to free me from the evils I consider are imposed tipon me. 

Question, Are you at this time subject to the disqualification of the fourteenth 
amendment t 

Answer, That, I believe, excludes a man fh>m office who has ever held office before 
the war, and taken an oath ; I am not subject to it, because I never held an office 
before the war. 
Question, How many men in Madison County are subject to that disqualification ? 
Answer, I could not even make a guess, because I do not know ; I remember to have 
seen an estimate, whether true or not, in the political canvass of 1868, that there were 
over 30,000 in the State of Alabama. 

Question, Xou saw that in the democratic newspaper f 

Answer, In the newspaper; I was taking the Mon^mery Mail at that time, mod I 
expect that is where I saw it ; that is the seat of government. 
Question, Was that a democratic paper f 
Answer, O, yes, sir. 

Question, You do not know it otherwise than by reading that article t 
Answer, I do not. 

Question, You do not know the number in Madison County f 

Answer, No, sir ; I cannot tell, because there are many men in Madison County, 
probably, who have held office that I even do not know. 

Question, Is there any other disqualification except the incapacity to hold office rest- 
ing upon a sinc^le citizen of Madison County now under the fourteenth amendment or 
any other law f 


Amwar. Well, it seems to me that any man who has been a Senator or a member of 
CoDg^ress before the war is particularly designated, is he notf 

Antwer, Yon do not catch the point of my question. I desire to know whether there 
ia any person any longer disqualified in any other way than an incapacity to hold 

AM9war. I know of none that I can now think of. • 

Que$tkm, When yon speak, then, of the people of Alabama being deprived of all their 
rights, you mean the right to hold office, do you f 

Answer. When I speak of being deprived of their rights, and the evils imposed upon 
them, I refer particularly to the imposition of that constitution upon us. 

Qutttum, Yon refer to the past and not to the present? 

Anwer, O, ves, sir ; I refer to the past. 

QwBttion, There is no grievance resting on the people of Alabama at this time, except 
the incapacity to hold office of certain prominent individuals who went into this 
rebellion, is there f If thei'e is any other grievance, let us hear it f 

Anawer, Our chief grievance, as I have stated frequently, is this Alabama oonstitu- 
tioD I that is the only grievance we suffer under particularly : it was imposed npon us, 
aod in its imposition, officers and men who were disagreeable to us, and unpleasant, 
and who failed to execute the law, and were in their offices for selfish purposes, were 
thmst upon us. 

By Mr. Blair : 
Question. And that still continues f 
Amwer, Yes, sir. 

By the Chairman : 
Queation. When you get fid of these officers you wUl have no other grievance than the 
fourteenth amendment disqualification t 
Atmcer, We have still that constitution. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
QneaHon. Is not the constitution in itself a good one f 
Answer, Well, sir, I think not. 

By Mr. Blair: 
QuesiUm. It is not a good one if it was not the work of the people anyhow ! 
Answer. I think it is not a good one. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Do you disapprove of that portion requiring education to be extended to 
all people — all children T 

Answer. I do not. I think that the colored children ought to be educated. I think 
it is to our interest to e^lucate them ; it is decidedly to the interest of the southern 
white num, for the reason it puts in the hands of the negro the weapon by which he 
may defend himself A*om these impositions that are put upon him. 

Question. Then are the democratic party of Madison County heartily in favor of 
negro education f 

Answer. 1 believe that they are. 

Question. Are the democratic party of Madison County heartily in fayor negro 

Answer. I believe that the democratic party of Madison County accept the amend- 
ment by which negro suffrage is conferred upon the colored people of Madison County, 
^tirely and unqualifiedly. 

Question. Are they in favor of the fiffceenth amendment f 

Answer. Well, they accept it ; they abide by it ; they intend to make no opx>osition 
to it ; they recognize it as a part of the Constitution of the United States ; bnt they 
do not believe that that was legitimately ingrafted as a part of the Constitution. 

Question. Would they like to get rid of it f 

Answer^ (after a pause.) Ai-e you inquiring of me now as a mouthpiece of the demo- 
cratic party t I can answer what I think about it myself 

Questum. 1 am asking the opinion of the democratic party in Madison County, so fhr 
as you are familiar with it ; what are their sentiments upon that question f 

Answer. 1 do not believe that there is any disposition on the part of the democrats 
of this county to interfere either directly or indirectly with the right that a negro has 
to vote. 

Question. You think if the democratic party were in power then they would not agi- 
tate that question t 

Answer. My opinion is that the democratic party accepts the question of negro suf- 
aaoi as settled and fixed. 

Questum. My question is whether, if they were in power, they would agitate that 
question f 


Answer J (after a pause.) I hardly know how to answer that question, for this reason, 
that I consider that when a man looks upon anything and accepts It as fixed and set- 
tled, he could not, with any consistency, afterwai-ds agitate it. 

Question, Do you think, then, the democratic party in the State of Alabama, so far as 
you are acquainted with the sentiments of that party, regard the fifteenth amendment 
as a finality, Hever to be agitated if they get into power. 

Answer, I think that they regard the fifteenth amendment settled and fixed just like 
they regard any other paragraph or section in that Constitution, just exactly; they 
consider it just as fixed as tnat paragraph which says a man is entitled to a speedy 

Question, And yon think if in power they would not be in favor of submitting a 
proposition to the Stat"^ for rescinding that article f 

Answei\ A proposition to the States to deny the negroes the right of voting, you 

Question, 1 mean this : I wish to inquire of you whether, in your opinion, if the demo- 
cratic party were in power and had the control of both branches of Cougre.s8, the pco- 
gle of Alabama would be in favor of Congress submitting a proposition to the various 
tates to rescind the fifteenth amendment ? 

Anstoer, I do not believe, from my knowledge of the sentiments and views that con- 
trol the democrats of Madison County and North Alabama, that if the democratic 
party was in power and ascendency, and had both Hous^ of Congress, any proposition 
would be submitted by the democratic party to the Southern States to rescind the right 
that the necro has to vote. I do not believe that au^' such proposition would be sub- 
mitted by the democrjitic Congress to the States to take from the colored people the 
right to vote in the Stat-es or rescind the fifteenth amendment. • 

Question, Then it is your opinion that the people of Alabama, without distinction of 
party, have come to recognize, as a finality, the right of .tihe colored people to TOt«, 
without regard to education or property f 

Answer, The people of Alabama, so far as my knowledge of them goes, consider that, 
this fifteenth amendment has become a nart of the Constitution of the land, and that, 
being a part of the Consiitution of the land, we must abide by it, and we do accept it 
as fixed and settled. 

Question, Is it not also tnie that all the democratic organs, their speakers and the 
press of the democratic party in the State of Alabama, are constantly engaged in throw- 
ing obloquy upon that amendment ? 

Anstcer. The democratic papers that I read — and I read the leading one in the Stat« — 
maintain clearly and decidedly, and has done so in various and divers editorials, that 
the fifteenth amendment should bo accepted by the people, and should be looked upon 
as fixed and settled. 

Question. How long has it maintained that position f 

Answer, It has mamtained that position for six or eight months past 

Question, What was the position of that paper upon that question before that? 

Anstcer, The position of that paper when the amendment was passed was in opposi- 
tion to it. 

Question. Was it denounced as invalid and a fraud ? 

Anstoer, It ^as called " revolutionary, null and void." 

Question, Was that the sentiment of the democratic party at that time f 

Answer, In 1868 it was. 

Question, Was it in 1869 f 

Answer, Well, sir, after the election of General Grant, after it was adopted and made 
a part of the Constitution, my opinion of that is, the matter was looked upon as fixed 
and settled, and, notwithstanding the fact that it had gone into the Constitution irreg- 
ularly and was not properly ingrafted there, yet it was done under the forms and color 
of law, and we said we should accept it and abide by it. 

Question, There has been,there, if I understand you, an entire acquiescence in the 
validity of that amendment by the democratic party in Alabama ever since General 
Grant was elected f 

Answer. There has been an entire acquiescence as to the fact that it is a part of the 
Constitution, and we must obev it as such ; but that it was legally and properly and ae- 
cording to all the requisit^is of law ingrafted on the Constitution, we do not believe. 

Question, Is there any di8i>osition upon the part of your party to have that question 
Biibmitted, if possible, to the Supreme Court of the United States for decision, with a 
view of getting rid of that amendment t 

Anstcer, I hear of none now, whatever. I think the last I ever heard of resorting. to 
the Supreme Court, in political circles here, was in 1868. 

By Mr. Buckley : 
Question. Did yon refer to the Montgomery Advertiser t (^ \ 

Answer. The Advertiser and Mail, which have been blendjetd^d by VjOOQIC 


Question. How is it with the leading democratic organ of yoar county upon this 
question t 

AMver. The Huntsville Independent was claimed to be a democratic paper here, 
and really had no clear definition of itB democratic sentiments. We do not consider 
the Hantsville Independent as a leading paper, for the reason that it omitted to do 
anything positive or direct. 

QHestion. I was speaking of the leading democratic organ, now the democratic paper 
edited by D. Withers Clay. 

Answer, 1 can better express my opinion as to his position by simply saying that I 
think Mr. Clay entertains the political theories and indorses the political theories that 
Mr. Alexander H. Stephens does upon that subject. I think, in saying so, that is the 
hest definition I can give of ^Ir. Clay^s views upon that subject. 

Question, Then Mr. Clay is understood not to accept of what is termed the new de- 
parture of the democratic party t • 

Jnstrer. I do not think that Mr. Clay has published any editorial in which he says 
^t ho does not accept it ; but the common acceptation among the democrats here 
is that Mr. Clay is what is called one of the Bourbons, after Alexander H. Stephens. * 

Question, Is his the leading paper of the democratic party in the country t 

AnsH^er, I think not. I thiuK this Huntsville Reporter has as great a circulation. 
The Independent certainly has a much greater. We look upon Mr. Clay, here, as an 

By Mr. Rice : 

Question, In regard to the grievances the people of Alabama complained of, have they 
any grievances except the fourteenth umi^ndinent now which they complain of that 
cannot be remedied by the people at the ballot-box within the State! 

Answer, Yes, sir; we have an election law in this State which is a heinous grievance 
to the people, and which we have not, under that election Liw, the right or opportu- 
nity to remedy. 

Question, Is it a part of the constitution T 

Answer. I would not like to answer about that constitution unless 1 had it before 

Question, Why cannot it be amended f 

Answer. It cannot be amended for this reason : that in order to amend it we would 
have to elect a certain character of menj the men we would elect would be 
known to be opposed to that particular kiud of an election law. The very men 
vho are in favor of it — the colored people — would vote against these meo, and the very 
evils we are now complaining of would be exercised and directed in opposition to the 
very men we would select for the purpose of making that remedy. 

By Mr. Blair: 

Question. Does not the law itself prevent any remedy f 

Ansreer. Yes, sir.- 

QuesUon. It prevents you from having a fair election ; that is your complaint t 

Answer. The law that prevents us from haWng a fair election will prevent us from 
Meeting men to give us the remedy. 

Question. In other words, you have not a real republican form of government when 
the electoral officers can defraud the people under a partial law T 

Answer, That is what I say, sir; we have not a republican form of government. 

By Mr. Buckley: 

Question. Is not the lower house of the general assembly of the State now demo- 

Answer, I think so, by a small majority. 

Question. Do you recollect whether any bill was passed by that house, or introduced 
into that body, for the purpose of amending this election la^ last winter? 

Anmeer. I am not distinct upon the fact as to whether such a bill was introduced or 
aoL I remember to have conversed with the members of the legislature from this 
connty ; they were decidedly in favor of such a bill being introduced, but they well 
knew, 80 they told me, that it could never become a law, for the reason that the radical 
party had control of the senate by an immense majority. 

Question. Did that democratic house make any attempt, to your knowledge t 

Answer. That is what I answered ; I do not remember distinctly whether it did or 
not. My impression is, without having been a member of that legislature and know- 
ing positively, that such a bill was introduced. 

By Mr. Bice t 
Question. Assuming that the election is fair, is not the whole subject within the hands 
of the people to remedy it, so far as any grievance you complain of, except the four- 
teenth amendment, is concerned f ^ 


Anittcer, It is in their hands to this extent, Colonel, that the very evil we complain 

Question. But, assuming that the officers do their duty, and that the election is con- 
ducted fairly, is not the remedy for all the evils of which you complain in the hands of 
the people of the State t 

Amwcr. If the election law was modified and changed, so as to give the people a 
fair and un trammeled expression of their views and wishes, I believe we could remedy 
the whole matter by a convention of the people. 

Question, It Is all in the hands of the people as in any other State where they have 
anything to complain of? 

Answer. Yes, sir ; and we believe by a convention we can rid the State of the evils. 
I am not speaking of that imposed by the General Government. 

Question. Are there any evils in the Federal Government you complain of, except the 
fourteenth amendment, at this time? 

Answer. We do not think the troops ought to be quartered among us; that is one 
grievance ; we do not think there is any necessity for it; I do not see that there is any 
necessity for this regiment out in the edge of the town ; that is a grievauoe; they cer- 
tainly occupy the position susceptible of the suspicion, at least, of being here to wat'Ch. 
over us — to hold bayonets over us ; we are not hostile to them ; they conduct them- 
selves politely and courteously, but we do not feel that there is any necessity for thena. 

Question. Are they not here under the power of the Government, undisputed and 
always exercised f 

Answer. I have understood that the Government would not send troops to be quar- 
tered on the people unless there was a necessity. 

By the Chairman: 

Question. Are they quartered on you hero, or does the Government supply them f 

Answer. The Government feeds tnem. 

Question. They are quartered in this neighborhood; they must be located in the 
United States— must live somewhere in the United States f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. 1 suppose they afford a pretty good domestic market here for your surplus 

Answer. 1 stated we have nothing to complain of in the soldiers. 

By Mr. Rice : ^ 

Question. What other evils do you complain of in reference to the presence of the 
soldiers ? 

Answer. We do not consider that they are necessary here ; they are in other parts of 
the State. Before the war we had no soldiers here, and we do not think there is any 
necessity for them now ; and^ although it may be the right and privilege of the Govera- 
ment to put them wherever it sees proper — we do not pretend to question that— oar 
belief is, that they are put here to guam our people and keep them £rom revolt; there 
is no necessity for that. 

Question. Is there any actual oppression from that source? 

Answer. None whatever. 

Question. Is there any other grievance ? 

Answer. Only this objection, it is a moral oppression, to this extent : 'they are placed 
here to watch us ; they do not interfere with us physically, personally, or anything of 
the kind. We consider that they are here to suppress any probable outbreak ori^inut- 
ing in our dislike of the Union. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Do you not think it was a fortnnate circumstance that they were here the 
night of the riot ? • 

Answer. 1 do not think the presence of the troops staid or checked the progress of 
that riot at all. 

Question. I understood you to express the opinion that the Ku-Klux would not have 
retired from the town, but would have indulged in a froQ light, but for the presence of 
the United States troops. 

Answer. I stated that I told this gentleman, disguised man, that the United States 
troops were about coming on the squaro, or would be there very soon, and that they 
ought not to go back on the square, for the reason that a conflict with the troope would 
be calamitous to our people. He responded by saying they did not desire any conflict 
with the troops ; that they had no purpose of making any attack upon them whatever ; 
and they would leave the town, and did go. 

Question. Do ^ou not think the troops were peace-makers upon that night ? 

Answer. 1 believe that, going down there myself, if you will excuse mo for saying it, 
I had more to do i/^ith mining the peace than anybody else ; advised thetnjto go away. 


By Mt. Rice : 

Que$tion, What other grievance do the people of Alabama complain of on the part of 
tlie Federal Government, except the one you have named, and the fonrteenth amend- 

J»«fcr. They complain, as I have said, of the inability of our leading men. 

Question, I admit that they complain of the disabilities under the fourteenth amend- 
ment, but, excepting that, and the one you have just named, what other grievance is 

Answer. We complain, as a people, of the centralizing tendencies of the Government. 
We believe down here that the republican institutions of the land are in danger, to a 
Very great extent. That is a grievance that certainly would weigh upon any man 
■who believed that his liberty and rights are in peril. That is one of them. That is a 
general reason. 

Question, That is a political grievance ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; a political grievance. 

Question. What other grievance f 

Answer. I think that goes about through the catalogue of grievances. 

By Mr. Blaia : 

Question. I want to know of you if it is possible that this people could have, or any 
people could have, a greater grievance than that which is involved in depriving them 
of their ablest, best, and most experienced men f 

Answer, I do not think any greater grievance could be imposed upon us ; and espe- 
cially at this juncture of our political affairs we need and require, and our prosperity 
and interest demand, that we should have our leading, wise, and experienced men. 
Those men are denied rendering us any service, and for that reason, I think it was the 

By the Chairman : 
Qu^tion. Have they ever applied to Congress to be relieved of their disabilities f 
Answer. I do not know. I know that one distinguished Alabamian has been relieved 
of bis disabilities, and was chosen by the people of Alabama to represent them in the 
United States Senate, and he is not there ; that is the Hon. Mr. Goldthwaite. 

By Mr. Blair: 

Quaiion. As I understand you, it is not the complaint of the individuals themselves 
tiiat thev are deprived, but the complaint and the grievance is, that the wh^e State is 
deprived of the ability, judgment, and experience of these, its ablest men. 

Ansncer. I do not remember to have ever heard any of these prominent men complain 
of being under the disability themselves. It is the people who complain that these 
leading men are irnder disability ; it is the people of the State at large who complain. 

By the Chairhan : 

Question. These leading gentlemen, then, do not want to be relieved ; is that your 

Answer. No, sir; it is not my idea. 

Question. Do they want to be relieved f 

Answer. I believe they would like to be relieved ; they all indorse and would approve 
t general amnesty. 

Qu/esHon. Are they unwilling to make application to be relieved of disabilities f 

Answer. I do not know whether they are unwilling to make personal, individual 
application or not. 

Question. Has not Congress uniformly relieved every case of application that has 
been made? 

Answer. The leading men in this State have been greatly discouraged in making per- 
sonal applioation, for the reason that they have seen in certain instances that Congress 
had relieved men. and those very men were unable to take office. 

QuM^on. Whyt 

Answer. That question is in the hands of the Senate, in relation to Mr. Goldthwaite. 

By Mr. Rice : 
Qussf^on* But not on that point. 

Answer. I am speaking of disabilities ; he has been relieved, and qualified for office. 
He has not been allowed to take his seat. 

By the Chairman : 
<iu^\on. Has his case ever been decided by the proper committee f 
Msiwtr. I remember to have seen a publication, whether true or not I cannot say — I 
eamtot answer advisedly upon the steps taken by the body of which three gentlemen 
here are members — ^but I remember to have seen a publication that Mr. Goldthwaite 


would be admitted, provided Blodgett, of Georgia, could be allowed to come in 
with him. 

QueatUm* By what authority, sir, was that statement made f 

Answer. WeU, sir, newspaper. 

Qaeation, 1 would like a more specific answer to my inquiry, whether the meu in 
Alabama subject to political disabilities under the fourteenth amendment are opposed 
to making application to Congress for relief. 

Answer, Well, sir, my opinion is, that some of the leading men have made personal 
applications to Congress. 

QuestioTU I wish a direct answer ; it is susceptible of one. 

Ansxcer. I know that. I am going to answer in this way : some have made applica- 
tion, and some have not. You ask me for the opinion of these men. 

Question, So far as your information extends, are they opposed to making appli- 
cation f 

Answer, My opinion of the disposition of the leading men of Alabama on this sub- 
ject is this: that they think it much better for Congress to pass a general amnesty bill. 

Quesiioii, I am not asking for that. Are they opposed to applying, and, for that 
reason, have they postponed or declined making personal application T My question 
is simply, are* they opposed to making application f 

Answer, I cannot answer that, because X do not know. 

Question, Have you ever known a case'in Alabama where a man disqualified nnder 
that amendment has applied to Congress in vain to be relieved f 

Answer, I remember to have seen a special bill of relief reported by newspapera 
from Congress, in which certain individuals whose names were included in the applica- 
tion were excluded. 

QuesUon^ Struck out of the bill f 

Ansteer, Yes, sir. 

Question. On whose motion were they struck out f 

Answer, I am speaking only from newspaper reading. It occurs to me that at one 
time Mr. Hawley, who was a member of Congress from the fourth district 

By Mr. Buckt-ey : 

Question, This district f 

Answer, It seems to me that he upholds provision in the bill for some citizens. 

Question, Were they not subsequently relieved f 

Answer, I do not know, colonel, whether they were or not. I just remember to have 
seen that paragraph. 

(Question, Were they not the names of Mr. Lindsay, the present governor, and ^Jr. 
Schloss, the present member from that district, and afterward were they both relieved T 
That is my recollection. 

Answer, I do not think the list I saw as being excluded had €k>vemor Lindsay's 
name in it at that time. I know Governor Lindsay was afterward relieved, bat 
whether he was excepted then or not I do not know. 


By the Chairman: 

Question, Do you think it a great hardship and grievance that Congress should 
not make haste and relieve these gentlemen in Alabama who are subject to disabili- 
ties under that amendment, when they are unwilling to make application to be re- 
lieved f 

Answer, I think Congress ought not to stickle over any personal pride in the matter, 
and to expect or claim that these gentlemen should come forward and do these things, 
but that Congress ought to go forward—that is my idea— and do that which will best 
promote harmony in the Southern States, and secure the allegiance of these men and 
their friends to the United States by a general amnesty bill. 

Question, Your idea is, that those gentlemen should stand aloof, and wait for Con^^rcss 
to approach them and generously oner them forgiveness f 

Answer, Not in that spirit. 

Qiuestion, You think they should stand upon their dignity, and not make appli- 
cation f 

Answer, I think they should remain as they are, and let Congress come forward, 
-without requiring personally A, B, or C, or D to apply. 

Question, Do you think it would be disgraceful in them, and degrading to their man- 
hood, to petition Congress to be relieved f 

Answer, I think not. I do not think it would be disgraceful or degrading, nor that 
onr people so consider it. 

QuesUon. Would it be undignified? 

Answer, I do not think so. 

Question, Do you think it any great hardship -for them to make application f 

Ansu)er, I do not think myself that it is any great hardship. Those leading gentle- 


ma entertain the current view of the Soath that they have oommitted no crime, and 
therefore there is no necessity of offering or asking pardon. 

QneBtum, Ton spoke of the riot in the fall of 1868, and of the large nnmher of people 
preeent— a thousand white people around the square, and from one thousand to fifteen 
noodred n^proes — and that, from the course of the evidence, it appeared that the shots 
proeeeded uom within the court-house square f 
Answer, Yes, sir. 

QuatioH. Did the evidence show that those shots were returned from the other side 
of the street? 

Answer, The evidence Showed that there was a promiscuous firing around the court- 
hooae gate and from the middle of the street. The people were just mixed up out 
there ; negroes and white folks. 
Question, Were those thousand white people mostly democrats f 
Answer, Yes, sir j the white people were. 
Qnesiion, You thuk there were a thousand around the square f 
Answer, I helieve there were, for they predominate in this corporation. 
QuiseiUm. I believe you say in the whole county there are not exceeding fifty white 

Answer. I say that, to the best of my opinion, they do not exceed fifty; that has been 
the exhibit made here on the vote. 
QuesU&n, Was theit strength any greater then than now f 
Answer, I think they are stronger now than they were then. 
I QuesHan, Then the presumption is, that of the thousand white people around the 
\ sqiisre, the great m^JOTity were democrats f 
Answer, Clearly so. 

(inesiion. Did the evidence taken by you show that they were armed? 
Answer, These white people f 
Qnesiion, Yes, sir. 

Answer, None, whatever. ^ 

QnesUan, From whom did those shots in the street proceed f 

Answer, If you mean by arms, shot-guns ; I cannot tell when a man has a pistol under 
his coat. Some of you may be armed now. 
Question, A man is armed when he has a pistol. 
Answer, Bat I did not know, and the witi^esses did not state it. 
Question, Did the evidence show where the firing proceeded from in that white 
crowd f 

Answer, The evidence showed that the firing occurred near the eastern gate of the 
eoort-yard, in and around that gate, and about the middle of the street, from the curb- 
stone of the pavement and the court-house gate ; the firing occurred in that space. 

QuesUon, Was there an anticipation during the day that there would be a riot ; did 
yoa bear it talked off 
Answer, I did not. 

Question, No apprehensions expressed f 
Answer, I heard none whatever. 
Question. The Eu-Elux, however, apprehended itf 
Answer, It seemed so, from their going in here. 
Qtiestion, Most of them, you believe, came from the town itself? 
Anmer, I believe a great many of the young men of tJiis city at that time were mem- 
bers of that organization. I do not know it ; it is my suspicion. 

Question, Did yon hear any threats emanating from anybody there at that time in 
Illation to what he would do under certain circumstances? 
Answer, I did not. 

Qu^Oon, Had you yourself any apprehensions of a riot that day? 
Answer, None in the world ; no more than you have now ; because I was quietly at- 
tending a theatrical performance at the time they came in. 

[At 1 o'clock and 45 minutes the committee took a recess for one hour.] 
By Mr. Blair: 

Question, The chairman of the committee put a question whether the southern peo- 
ple did not renounce their allegiance to the General Gfovemment when the war com- 
menced ; I wUl ask yon if the Government of the United States did not maintain the 
doctrine that you could not renounce your allegiance? 

Answer, That is what I understood idl the time; that was the issue. 

Qnestiom, Yoa were for renouncing your allegiance, and they maintained that yon 
coold not renounce it? 

Anmoer, That we could not renounce it ; that we were still citizens when the wat 
ended as we had been before. 

(^wes^om, WelL tlie General Govenunent conqnered in that fight ? /<^ i 

It^ tizedbyCjOOQle 

54 A 


Question, Aud, therefore, maintained the point that yon coold notrenoance yoor alla- 
giance, and were still citizenB of the United States f 

Answer, We so understood it, and accepted it in that way. 

Question, Then yon maintain, that that heing the case, yon did not lose your citisen* 
ship f 

Anstoer. We did not, according to my opinion and understanding of these matters. 

Question, And heing citizens, you could not he punished hy any legislative enactmentf 

Ansu}er, Wo conld not ; we could only he punished under the Constitution of the 
United States hy the courts organized under tnat Constitution. 

Question. Of course, I do not want to take the witness over €he history of the conntary 
hut I want to make that clear, that the punishment inf icted hy legislative enactment 
was in the nature of an attahider, which is denounced by the Constitution f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; in the nature of a bill of attainder, which we think is inimical to 
the spirit of the Constitution as well as to the letter of it. 

Question. You have referred to acts done iinder the flag, in speaking of the feeling 
which your people entertained for the flag of the United States, as emblematical of its 
authority and sovereignty, and you referrod to acts done under that flag to people who 
were the friends of the Government. In your own town of Athens, in Limestone 
County, I understand you to say that the large majority of the people were friendly to 
the Government f 

Answer. They were certainly friendly to the Government ; there was a prevailing 
sentiment in that county in favor of the maintenance of the Union at the time tbat 
the State seceded; that sentiment existed there for along time after the State seceded ; 
it existed to a considerable extent after tho war broke out. Among the young 
men who entertained these Union sentiments, tho ^at majority of them went 
into tho confederate army, but those sentiments were still maintained and adhered to 
hy a great many of the older men of the community who were left there, and ooald 
not be called into the confederate army ; and I say that that sentiment, livioff and 
existing among thpse older men, was entirely crushed out by the enormities and bar- 
barities perpeti*ated by General Turchin. 

Question. State what were the acts committed by General Tnrchin. and state whether 
at the time he arrived in Athens they were the first United States soldiers which vi&Hed 
that town, or what was the case in that respect. 

Answer. They visited Athens soon after General Mitchell took possession of this town, 
in 1862 ; that is my recollection ; I cannot recollect which month ; I was myself in 
the confederate army at the time. They came to Athens — so I was told by my father, 
who lived there on the main street ; that entering the town on that street. General 
Turchin came in with his command, and it was halted ; that it extended up and down 
the street, and part of it was in front of his residence, and that ho hea^d the order 
given by General Turchin that he would shut his eyes for two hours to all that the 
soldiers might do. 

Question. What did they do f 

Answer. Well, sir, I can speak of what was done particularly in my father^ house, 
and what was done in the neighborhood, above and below it. I heard the citizens n^n- 
erally speak of what was done in their own houses. In my father's house they came 
in at jnst abont sunrise ; I remember he told me that he was not dr^sed when he 
heard this command given by General Turchin, while he was standing at his window ; 
that before he got dressed a great number of soldiers had come into the house, and np 
stairs, aud gone into the room that my sister, a young ladv, occupied, while sba was 
in bed ; that many of them entered there, and that two or three guns or pistols were 
discharged in the room ; and they did varions things that of^nded and insulted him. 
My sister got up and dressed while they were in the room, ^eatly alarmed and fright- 
ened, he told nie ; so much so that she had a spell of fever afterward from the friglit she 
received. As to what they broke up in the house, I do not know what was done. Xhey 
afterward took possession of that house, though, and he staid in one room with mv 
slater while these soldiers were these. The oflOicer^ whoever he was, who was particu- 
larly in command, gave him one room in a house of eight rooms, and they took posses- 
sion of the culinary department and carried on the household generally. He was 
allowed to be a guest at his own table. Our neighbor, Haywood Jones, suffered in a 
similar way, so he told me ; that General Turchin^s troops, most of whom were foreign- 
ers, had no conscience, no scruples whatever in doing all kinds of violence. General 
Turchin was afterward put on trial up here and court-martialed, and my sister. Miss 
Eichardson then, was brought up as a witness in tho case, and my recollection is-^and I 
am €^uite sure that I am right about it — that she said that one of the soldiers attempted 
to violate the person of a colored girl in her room, or in her presence at least; thstshe 
appealed, I remember she said, to an officer from Kentucky, who gave them protection 
alter that, and cleared the house of soldiers ; they then staid there for two or three 
days, or a short time, until the command got organized and disciplined, and the aoU 
diers were taken away from the house and only occupied an office m the yard, « tetok 
office, that I had once staid in. ^ 


QamSuL Wbat was the result of the court-martial t * 

jMfiMr. I understood that General Turchm was cashiered, and before the sentence 
had been published he was promoted from the position of brigadier general to that of 
mjm general. That is what I heard. I know General Tnrohin was afterward in the 
United States Army, because I think he was said to have been ikt the battle of Chicka- 
maoga with a command, a battle I was engaged in myself as a soldier. But the com- 
plaiBi of the people of Athens was very great. General Bnell afterward came through 
kre» and rectified and modified as much as he could, so the people all said, the conduct 
aod action of these soldiers in that town, and seemed to be willing to ameliorate in 
every way he could the sufierin^ of the people. 

QuaHoH. Kotwithstanding this usage, and all the losses and suffering of the war, I 
nndentand you to say it is your belief that the people of the South, as a body) have 
sDfanitted to the arbitrament to which they themselves appealed t 

jMswer, I think that they have submitted in perfect good faith, and I believe they 
are konest and sincere in seeking to do those things which are well calculated to bring 
aboQt peace, and harmony, and restore good feeling among all the people of this 

QMeAon, And that they have now no hostility to the Government, no purpose or 
inteotion to overthrow it, and that their only hostility is to certain doctrines of the 
administration f 

Anwer. Yes, sir; I do not think that any man who is reasonable or sane in this 
coimtry entertains the slightest desire or wish to overthrow the Government, and tbat 
the (Mily hostility that they have got is to certain legislation which they think is 
BDfriendiy to them, and which oppresses them. 

QuetUem, And which'they consider unfriendly to a republican form of government t 

A»9»er, They do consider that legislation unfriendly to a republican form of gov- 

QtmHan. The reconstruction acts referred to^ by which governments were to be 
imposed upon the Southern States against the wishes of the people, the inhabitants of 
those States,' you regard as not only unfriendly to a republican form of govern nicnt, 
bat aa ealcolated to exasperate and keep alive the animosities engendered by the war f 

Auwer, I do consider those acts as well calculated to continue the bitterness eugen- 
<ierecl by the war, and that the best and safest remedy to wipe out and remove all 
time animoeities and prejudices that were created and engendered by the war is by a 
(^end amnesty bill. I believe that would tend .more to give the people satisfaction 
than anything else that could be done. 

QMUtUm, Is it your opinion th^t, if the Government had acted upon the suggestions 
•f Mr. Idncoln before his death, for universal amnesty, and the policy pursued by Mr. 
Johnson, the fraternal feeling between the sections would long since have been resumed f 

^sfiMr. I believe that would have restored the allegiance of the people to the Union 
earlier than anything else that could have been done ; that their old afi'ection, and in- 
terest, and fondness for the flag and the country would have returned, and that they 
viold have labored and striven earnestly to have forgotten all of those bad feelings 
wbich had been created. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

QunUon* Xky you recollect whether the reconstruction policy of Mr. Johnson, which 
bas been emoken of, treated these Southern States as having any lawful State govern- 
Bents at the close of the war f 

Anmter. It did not ; at least to this extent, it appointed provisional governors— they 
were called by the name of provinional governors — in the Southern States. The term 
"proriaionaF would imply that it was not an absolute and unqualified government 
tMt Ihey were presiding over. 

Quettion. Did he not in his proclamation—the first one he issued, providing for the 
nstoration of civil government in North Carolina — state in the preamble of that pro- 
elamation somethins to this effect : " Whereas no legal State government exists in the 
State of North Carolina, I, Andrew Johnson, issue this proclamation," &o. Was not 
that a part of the preamble f 

Annper, I do not remember the preamble of North Carolina that you speak of. 

^MtftDH. You were living, at the opening of the war, I think you stated, in Athens f 

Amwer. Yes, sir, I was. 

QnmHam, When did you leave there t 

Anmcer, I left there some time in either May or June, I will not state which posi- 
iivelf ^ IB m company, and came to this place, and remained until November. 

Quitum, B«t I mean subsequent to the war ; you were living in Limestone after- 
ward I 

Awmcer, Yes, sir; I returned to Limestone in June, I think it was, 1865. 

(^Mt$^on> Were you living at Athens on the day of the presidential electlQU of 1868 1 

' No, air, I was Uving here. .ti^ed by GoOglc 


Qutstion, Do yon know or have yon heard whether any band of disgniaed men rode 
into Athens on the day of that presidential election, or that night f 

Answer, I do not now rememoer whether I ever heard of any disgnised men riding 
into Athens on that day. 

Question, How soon do yon think this Ku-Klnx Klan was introduced into the State f 

Ansiper. I think that the organization was introduced into Alabama — well, sir, very 
soon after its formation, its origin, which took place, I am informed, in Pulaski, Ten- 

Question. At about what date was the formation f 

Ansroer, I think that was in 1867 ; I am not positive. It came to Alabama very soon 
after that, because the Alabama State line was right there, very near PulaskL 

Question. In the early part of the examination you spoke of a law which was con- 
sidered very oppressive, and was looked upon as being very obnoxious to the people 
here ; had you reference to the act to suppress murders, lynching, assaults and bat- 
tery, approved December 28, 1866, or the act for the suppression of secret organiza- 
tions of men, disguising themselves for the purpose of committing crimes and oat- 
rages, approved December 26, 1868 ? 

Answer, I bad reference particularly to the latter-named act. My attention MraB 
called to the preamble, and I was asked if I thought it stated the truth. 

Question, Previous to that you spoke of a law, and I did not understand your answer, 
whether you meant this law m regard to secret organizations or another law of a sim- 
ilar character, for the suppression of murder and lynching. 

Answer, My answer was directed principally to the law in reference to disguised 

Question. The one that contains a provision that no penalty should be attached to 
killing a person in disguise f 

Ansioer. Yes, sir. 

Question, You felt that that clause was wrong f 

Answer, I felt that that clause was very heinous, for any citizen who entertained per- 
sonal dislike to another could shoot him down and place a disguise near him, and jus- 
tify himself thereby ; that could be done ; that was an abuse to which it was liable. 

Question. Aside from that, you think the law now a good one f 

Anstcer, I say this about it : I would not remove that law from the statute-book to- 
day, for this reason, because I believe there are men in this country who have been 
perpetrating outrages; I believe they are highwaymen and robbers. 

Question, Under disguise? 

Answer. They go in disguise and sometimes open and above-board. I believe there 
are such men in tliis country, and for that reason we ought to have the most stringent 
law, to arrest such things, that we can obtain, and therefore, if I was a member of the 
Alabama legislature, I do not think that I would vote to repeal the law as a whole ; 
there is a good deal I could alter in it; I would rather have it than no law at all on 
that subject — a great deal rather. 

Question, Have you heard that the commanding officer of the troops here has given 
permission to his men to shoot men they see riding the streets in disguise f 

Answer, Never. 

Question. You never heard that? 

Answer. 1 never heard that such permission was given by Qeueral Crawford or any 
other commanding officer. 

Question. You spoke of a gentleman named Sheets. 

Answer. C. C. Sheets. 

Question, "Who is het 

Answer, C. C. Sheets' was originally from Winston County. He is now a minister to 

Question. Or consnl f 

Answer. A consul to Denmark. He was a republican. 

Question. What was the nature of thepromises that he made f 

Answer. He told me himself that the Ku-Klux had come to the Florence Hotel, where 
he was staying, and had an interview with him, and told him that he must cease bis 
inflammatonr speeches ; that he must not— I will state the substance of his language, 
of course— that he must not any longer appeal to the passions and prejudices of &e 
negroes, as he had been doing. He told me that he promised them to do it. That day 
he made a speech here. 

Question. That same day that he made the promise f 

Answer. No, sir ; the day he told me ; Ihat day he made a speech here, and did ap- 
peal to the inflammatory elements of the negro in a very decided manner. 

By the Chairmaw : 
Question. Did you hear the speech f ><^ i 

Answer. I did, sir. Dgi^i,^ by GoOglc 


By Mr. Bugkuet : 

Quettitm, Are you acquainted with a gentleman named William R. Chisholm, in an 
MJI^noing cooDty to this? 

Answer, I know a man in Lauderdale named Tol Chisliolm ; that may be the name. 
Now I remember, there is another Chisholm there who was a member of the Alabama 

QtietHan, Is he a man of respectability f 

Answer. Tol Chisholm is. 

Qu€Sii<m, Is William B. Chisholm f 

Answer, My difficulty is to know who William R. is. 

Queslian, I think he was a member of the legislature. 

Answer, Then I am not acquainted with him. 

Question, Do you know anything against him t 

Answer, I do not. 

QuttfHon. Why I asked is, because I have a copy of a report made by a joint com- 
mittee of the Alabama legislature, upon outrages. It seems a committeo was ap- 
pointed in pursuance of a recommendation of the governor. The first paragraph of 
the report reads thus : 

" The joint committee, appointed by this general assembly, pursuant to the recom- 
meodation of his Excellency Governor William H. Smith, (ot three on the part of the. 
house, and two on the part of the seiiatc,) whose duty it was made to investigate the 
recent allied outrages perpetrated by armed bands of outlaws upon members of this 
le^ialature, and other good and law-abiding citizens of this State, and to report by bill, 
or otherwise, at the earliest day practicable, what measures may be necessary for the 
Tiudication of the law and future power of th^ State, approved November 14, 1868, 
ask leave respectfullv to rejiort that they entered at once upon the work assigned 
tboq^ and that they nave been unceasing in their efforts, in the discharge of their du- 
ti»« under the powers with which they have been invested." 

It seems that they took some tentimony, and I have here the testimony of Mr. Wil- 
Ham R. Chisholm, who was called before the committee, and was sworn and testified. 
I want to know if you refer to the promise Mr Sheets gave on the 30tli of October of 
tbat year, 1868, under those circumstances. Mr. Chisholm testifies that: 

**0n the 30th of October last, while on my way to the geneial assembly ot Alabama, 
and while in Fk)rence, Alabama, I saw an armed band of masked men at a public hotel 
of the t^wn ; they were dressed in black, and were about twenty-fivb in number. I 
met Colonel Sheets, Grant elector, at the hotel, and at night we both occupied the 
same room. Colonel Sheets had made a Grant speech in town on that day, and I noticed 
was quite restless after we retireil, and expressed fears that the Ku-Klux would attack 
him. At about 10 o'clock a negro boy appeared at our room door, and inforn}ed Sheets 
'that the Ku-Klnx were in town,' which information alarmed him very much, and I 
think he would have attempted to escape from the room, but was fearful the house 
w^ watchtrd. At about 12 o'clock we heard a great mmbling noise in the house, as if 
» large number of men were approaching our room. When Sheets heard the noise, he 
sprang up in his bed, and said to me, ^ The Kn-Klnx are coming,' when he immediately 
sprang from a window in our room, communicating with a porch, and i-an down the 
lK»rch, and endeavored to make his escape through another man's room. By the time Sheets 
bad ran some distance down the porch, the masked men had appro.'iched the door of the 
room, and demanded admittance. I at once opened the door, when about tenor twelve 
anaed and disguised men rushed in the room, and almost simultaneously demanded ai 
me, * Where is Sheets T ' * Where is Sheets f I replied as rapidly as I could, * He has 
jumped out of the window.' Several of the armed men looked under the beds for Col- 
onel Sheets, and others went through at the window in pursuit of him. After arresting 
Sheets, I heard them ask him who he was, and heard him reply, * My name is Sheets ; I am 
a cripple and alone j there are twenty or thirty of you, and you can hang me, or shoot 
me, or do as you please with me, but I request you, if you are going to kill me, to do 
80 here, as I do not wish to be carried to the woods and killed.' After some further 
conversation with Sheets, they marched him under guard to our room, where 1 still 
remained. I handed him his clothes ; he put them on, and was ordered off by the men 
who had him under guard. He appeared to be of the opinion that they were going to 
kill him, and as he was marched on, handed me his watch and pocket-book. Immedi- 
ately afterward I was ordered to ' put on my clothes,' and was conducted by them to 
mother portion of the house, where I was joined with Colonel Sheets. After keeping 
as mider arrest a short time, we were turned loose, and told we could return to our 
nom. The di^piised men charged Sheets with having called them murderers and 
scoundrels. Sheets replied that the remarks he made about them was not of a personal, 
bat of a ]K>litical nature, and I now think that the conditions upon which they spared 
bis life were, that he would not make any more such speeches as he had made, having 
reference to them. I was not threatened, but was treated discourteously and insult- 
ingly by them. I had violated no law, but was placed under arrest by them. Their 
laees and persons were completely disguised from recognition ; they also disguised 


their walking and voices. Tliey were disj^ised in saoh ft way as oaoaed me not to 
know any of them. 

*'■ I have seen three other parties of disguised men at different times, at my home in 
Lauderdale County. They generally came at from 10 to 12 o'clock at night, and re- 
mained but a short time, without doing much damage ; in fact no hostile demonstrations 
were made toward any one at my home. 


'* Signed and sworn to, after being read over and approved by affiant, 14th November, 

"G. T. McAFEE, Chairman.'* 

I want to know if you refer to the promise Colonel Sheets made at that time to those 
men not to make any more speeches f 

Anatcer, The only thing I know of in regard to that is what Colonel Sheets told me 
himself. It must have been on that occasion, because that states it to have been the 
night of the 30th of October. This riot occurred between the 30th of October and the 
3d of November, acconling to my best recollection, and from that, I think, it must be 
that interview that the Ku-Klux hod with Mr. Sheets that he referred to in talking to 
me ; for he told me he had just been molested by them in Florence, and he stated to 
me that he had giving a promise to them not to make the speeches he had been mak- 
ing formerly. 

Question, What time in the day, Saturday, did the speaking commence here? 

Anstcer. About 11 or 12 ; either 11 or 12 ; there was a large crowd in town— a large 

QuestUm. In the night-time did yon sec any white men inside of the oonrt-honse 

Answer. I was not inside of the court-house yard at all. 

Question. You do not know whether any white men were here that night t 

Anstcer. 1 do not know except as I heard; I heard that white men were inside of the 

Question. Inside of the court-house yard and fence t 

Answer. I do not remember to have seen any white men at all in the oonrt-honse 
yard, though there might have been some, and doubtlesn were. 

Question. You were m the theater at the time the difficulty commenced t 

Answer. I was, when the announcement was made that they were coming in. 

Question. You do not know whether it was a promiscuous crowd* inside the conrt- 
house yard or not? 

Answer. 1 only know that when I came up from the theater there was a large num- 
ber of white people on the side- walks. 

Question. Have you any reason to believe that any of those men who were dismounted 
and undisguised about the streets were members of that Ku-Klux organization f 

Anstcer. I have none whatever for believing they were. 

Question. It was stated in the testimony here yesterday, I believe by Mr. Davis, that 
the un4li8gnised men who wei-e on the ground about the yard were members of the or- 
ganization, or a part of them at least. Do you agree with him in that f 

Answer. I do not, for this reason, that, as I stated before, I believe that the procession 
that night embraced pretty much the entire membership of the Ku-Klux organization. 

Question. 1 understood you to say that there were about one thousand white people 
here t 

Ansicei; To the best of my belief. 

Question. Do you usually have that many white democrats who attend repablican 
meetings in this town of Huntsville ? 

Answer. I did not say they were all democratic voters ; there were a good many 
children around on the square, who came up as a matter of curiosity, but as soon as 
there was evidence of disturbance and trouble they all left. 

Question. What I would like to ask is this: do you think there was any connection 
between that republican meetiug, on Saturday night previous to Grant's elect ion, and 
the appearance of the Ku-Klux upon the streets f 

Anstter. I do. I think it for this re:ison, that there had been various and nnmerons 
threats made that day that the Ku-Klux could not come in here. I heard it repeatedly 
on the streets during the day. I paid no attention to it, for the reason that I did not 
expect the Ku-Klux. 

Question. Did you hear, about 12, that the Ku-Klux would appear in town that day t 

Answer. 1 <lid not ; and as the Iwist evidence that I did not think they were coming, 
I was quietly attending a little Thespian i>erfonnance in the theater. 

Question. Do you recollect the name of the gentleman who approached yon in that 
instance which you mentioned to join the organization f 

AuKtcer. 1 remember it to this extent, as I stated. 1 did not think it could be accepted 
an a direct overture to me to join, for the reason that they knew my sentiments, and 
that I would not join. 


QjmtioM. Do yon know the name of the gentleman who approached you f 

Aumer. I do. 

Qmitmn, The same one who showed yon the certificate f 

Anmoer, It was not the man who showed me the certificate. 

QuOUm. That was the second one, in point of time, bnt the first one yon related f 

Anmoer, I said tliis man approached me — a man unknown to me — and he had a oer- 
tificato unknown to me, that he was all right, and that I could give him a '^ precept/' 
tod my suspicion was aroused, because he aUeged that he came &m a neighborhood in 
Limestone that I was acquainted with. 

QiusUon. Did you see the name of the gentleman who presented the certificate in the 

Annter. I certainly saw the certificate recommending this man, but I do not remem- 
ber his name. '' 

QuaUon. You saw the certificate recommendin|f him as all ri^ht f 

Ajuwer, Yes, sir ; and that I could take him into my confidence, and that he was 
trustworthy, but his name I do not remember, because he was an entire stranger to 

Qu&Him, At what time did the Loyal League exist in Athens, of which yon spoke f 

AM9W€r, I think that the first time that I remember the existence of the Loyal League 
there was in 1866 ; I think it was some time in Xt366. 

Qufs^an, That was before the reconstruction measures were passed ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; it was before the passage of the reconstruction laws. 

Qutttkm, Then it was before they had the privilege of voting f 

Answer. O, yes, sir ; the Loyal League existed before the right to vote was given to 
them. It is my recollection that Captain Bingham orgauii^ a Loyal League long 
before the right to vote was conferred on the colored people. 

Question, Did you say the present probate judge made a good officer? 

Answer, I said he keeps his records and dockets in a very good condition, so much so 
that when, as a lawyer, as I have frequent occasion to visit his office, 1 never have any 
difficulty in finding a paper or record ; that the mechanical part of the office is ad- 
minbly kept. 

QsestUm. How does he compare with the former Judge; some comparison has been 
made here by some witness ? 

Answer, His immediate predecessor, you mean, of course. Judge Scruggs? 

Question, I think that was the name. Colonel Davis spoke of him. 

Answer, Well, sir, he keeps the office in a much better condition than Judge Scruggs 

Questiom, He is a northern man, is he not ? 

Answer, He is. 

Question, Did von ever hear that his predecessor was a defaulter to the county for 
WTeral thousand dollars ? 

Answer, I heard that there was some difficulty between Judge Scruggs and the 
tRsiorer of this county about money that Scruggs had received as probate Judge, 
which he should have paid over to the county treasurer. 

Question, Received nom what scarce ? 

Answer, I do not know from what source. I merely heard that. The way I heard 
it WM, if I remember correctly, through Mr. Lowe, who was then the district attorney, 
lam sure that I heard after that that Judge Scrug^ had straightened the matter up 
to the Batisfaction of the county treasurer, and that it was all right. How he did it, 
or what the amount was, I do not know. 

Question, Did I understand yon to say that th^re was a colored man by name of 
CWles Hale, who had some colored men under arms the day of the riot ? 

Answer. That is what the witnesses said in testimony X took. 

QuesWm, Do you know whether or not Charles Hale was that day a deputy sherifi*, 
trting under the orders of the sheriff of the county ? 

Answer, I know he had been ; he was afterward the deputy sheriff; whether he was 
or not at that time I do not remember. 

Question. You had heard he had been ? 

Answer, I know be had been and he was afterward ; he may have been at that time. 
I do not remember the testimony on that subject ; my memory preponderates to the 
belief that he was deputy sheriff at that time. 

Qnetlion, Do you know whether or not the men he had with him were his posse, men 
selected with- a view of acting under his orders for the purpose of keeping the colored 
men orderly that day of the meeting ? 

Answer, I do not. 

Question. Did you ever hear that that was the case ? 

Aniwer. I never did. 

Question, You saw nothing improper that they did ? C^r\r\r^]i> 

Answer. During the day ? Digitized by VjUVjy IL 

QiietUon, Yes. 


Answer, 1 did not. 

Question, Speaking of amnesty, has not the repahlioan party of this State uniformly 
urged the removal of all politicioJ disabUities T 

Answer, Well, sir, I may be compelled in answering this question to quote Mr. Davis 
again as a republican. 

Qv^Hon, Well, quote him. 

Answer, He has always claimed to be a republican and strongly advocated general 

Question, Did not the State republican convention held at Solma last year, in its res- 
olutions, declare its desire to have all political disabilities removed t 

Answer, My recx>llection is that it did. 

Questiwt, It had been done previous to that also, had it not T 

Answer, I do not remember that, but my recollection of the republican convention at 
Selma is that it did recommend general amnesty. 

Question, What has been the conduct and behaviour of the colored people in this part 
of the State since the surrender T 

Answer, Well, sir, take the mass of the colored people and I do not think that the 
people have any cause of complaint whatever in their conduct, or in their courtesy and 
politeness toward the people at large generally. 

Question, That is the general impression through the county, is it T 

Answer, That they have conducted themselves well— that they have been quiet and 

Question, You have noticed here, during your residence in this county, no disposition 
on the part of the colored people to arm themselves, or to be boisterous, or to go about 
the country creating disturbance in any way f 

Answer, I have never noticed a disposition on the part of the colored people to go about 
the country creating disturbance. I noticed, and was in outside attendance of several 
meetings in 1668, in which the negro orators or speakers were very extravagant in the 
expression of their sentiments of hostility toward the people of the South, and of the 
town. I remember one instance in particular : a colored man named George Williams, 
who pointed from the steps of the north end of this court-house to the buildings round 
the town, and said that if the people of the South did not accord to them their rights 
as citizens, remember that it was through their labor and toil that all these building 
were constructed, and that they could destroy them ; that was the idea in substance. 

Question, Have you known any depredations in the country committM by amuU 
squads of three or four or five negroes traveling about T 

Answer, No, sir. I have heard of no bandH of depredating negroes ; so far as my 
knowledge or information goes, the negroes have conducted themselves very peaceably 
and orderly, and behaved tuemselves well. 

Question, And, considering their liberty, you think they have behaved as well as you 
could expect them to T 

Answer, I certainly did not expect them to do as well, and I think we would never 
have had any trouble with them at all if there had been no Loyal Leagues or unkind 
feeling, and if the negroes had been Just let alone, unmolested, untampered with by 
persons who do not know the negroes as well as the southern people, who I consider 
their very best friends. 

Question, Even under these aggravating circumstances you have not been troubled 
much with them f 

Answer, No, sir ; not by the negroes ; it is not the negroes we complain of. 

By the Chairman : 

Question, In that speech you referred to, made by Mr. Sheets, did he counsel the 
negroes to any acts of violence unless they were interrupted in their rights T 

Answer, My recollection, Mr. Chairman, of the main point made in Mr. Shects's 
speech, which was inflammatory in its tendencies, was that he said to the negroes, '* If 
you were not so weak-kneed and so cowardly these Ku-Klax could not parade through 
the country.^' That is in substance what he said. 

Question, Had he not been referring to the Ku-Klux as having interrupted the colored 
men in the enjoyment of their rights f 

Answer, O, yes, sir : he had been speaking of the Ku-Elux riding through the country 
and molesting the colored people, and he alleged, as radical orators did at that time, 
and do, that the purpose and object of the Ru-Klux organization was to trample down 
the negroes and keep them from voting the republican ticket. 

Question, And his connsel was that they shonld arm and defend themselves T 

Answer, That they should defend themselves ; that they were strong enough to do 
it physically and in numbers, and if they did not do it, it was because they were 
weak-kneed and cowardly; I think that was the exact expression. 

Question. If his premises were right, and the Ku-Klux had been interfering^ \titli tho 
negroes, breaking open their houses, and whipping and otherwise maltreating them, 
do you not think his advice was proper f 

Answer, If his premises were right, I would not think his advice wrong, but I 
ihought his premises entirely false. 


HdntsyillE; Alabama, October 12, 1871. 
HENBY HAMLIN (colored) sworn and examined. 

By the Chairman : 

QueaHon, Where do yon live T 

Answer, I ]iyo in this coanty—Madison County. 

Question. Have yon ever been whipped by the Kn-Klnxf 

Answer, Yes. sir. * 

Question. Wnent 

Answer, About three years ago. 

QuesHon, Where T 

Answer, Down abont three or five miles, at Trinity, down below Decatur. 

Question, What county is that inf 

Answer. In this county. 

Question, What were you whipped for T 

Answer, I couldn't tell you what it was for. 

Question. Who whipped you f 

Answer. I didn't know none of them. I went away fW)m here, down on the railroad, 
to work on the railroad. I was a stranger down there. I hadn't been down there 
more than two weeks when they came there one night. The hands had gone to bed, 
and they knocked at the door and told us to open the door. Nobody would open it, 
aod they kept saying, " Open the door, old man," and nobody would open it, and after 
a while they took the breech of a gun and mauled it open. They knocked all the nlank 
off and came in, and said, "Give up those fjuns and pistols." Wo told them we didn't 
have none: he said, " You are a damned liar ;" we said, ** We haven't any ;" he said, 
"Yes, you have," and then they carried us on to the horses, and tied our hands behind 
us: they tied my hands behind me, and they tied that man's hands to me on that side, 
and that man's hands to me on the other side. All were tied together, and they 
marched us across the railroad. And another man, his family and wife, staic^in a 
•hanty; they came up there; bum I bum! bum! "Open this door !" This black man 
heard it, and slipped through the window to get away ; they ran through the window 
aft«-him, and across the field, shooting, and I heard them catch him aa he was ruu- 
jing in his drawers, bare-headed ; they fetched him back and first tied him. This 
olack man asked them to let him go and get his shoes and pants ; no, they said they 
▼oaldn't let him, and they carried him on up in his drawers and shirt-sleoves, bare- 
footed, and wouldn't let him get nothing, and the others in there were taking what 
money his wife had. He had been on the railroad three or four years ; he had some- 
thing like $300 — a good deal of money. While they had us, the rest of them were iu 
there robbing and taking the money from his wife. She was scared and was hollo- 
ing, and they came out and catched up with us after we got three or four miles on, 
and one fellow says, " O, by God, we made a damned big raise to-night ; damn it, we 
got a big raise." He meant he had got a heap of money. Then they carried us on up to 
the graveyard, about seven miles from there ; they just rode over us, galloped over us, 
and made us run, and kept riding over us. We would fall down, and they would ride 
plambover us. They holloed, "Get up, God damn you," and said, *'I will blow your 
God dan^ brains out," and so driving us on ; when they carried us out there and we saw 
the craveyard, the boys commenced to keep up such a fuss, seeing the graveyard and 
thinking they were going to kill them and bury them, and they holloed, ' O, Lord, I am 
going to die ; I can't do any more ; I am overpowered ; I have to go." Then they told us, 
"Boys, we arenot goingto kill you, but whip you. I am going to whip you, not kill you ;" 
and they told us not to be onrestless ; and they said they were going to make us know 
that they were going to rule this country. They said, " You God damned fellows going 
about here think you do as you please, but I'll let you know you shan't. We have just 
come from hell, and we rule you all. I have not had any water for three or four days." 
They were talking fine voices— sharp voices. He said, "Do you know met" I said, 
**No, I don't." Ho said, "Well, you will know me." Well, they whipped us up there. 
The first man got away, down at the shanty, and they catchedhim, and he got away 
again, up at the graveyard, as they were untyiug him. They got us up there all in a 
hne, every man all around like a guard, with his pistol cocked, so that if you were to 
Ruae to run he would shoot you. This man got loose up there. I don't know how. 
They shot at him three or four times, every one of them did. They aimed to shoot 
him, and shot his horse in the side. The man run, and by running among the horses 
and bushes ho got away and saved himself, and got back. We had ueen whipped, and 
we had come on back to the shanty. We were so sorry, and they had whipped us so 
had, and we were so bad we couldn't lay down, and it was day ; and we saw him, before 
<iay, coming around there that morning, and we told him what they said to tell this 
feUow,that they would make his coflin, and set it in his house, and damned if they 
wero not going to have him anyhow. They would get his coffin and set it in his house; 
that th«y were going to have him. They took another man down — one of the old 
hands that had been working on the road before I was. I didn't know about him. 


They took him down firat. The reason they were whipping us was, they said, because 
we diclu't go to the meeting. They had a meeting down there on Saturday, and the 
old ones wouldn't go because they knowed more about it, and they said they were not 
going ; that the negro was going to take side with the white folks. 

Question, What kind of a meeting was itt 

Anmoer, It was a meeting with speaking. 

Quesiiott. Was it a democratic meeting r 

Answer, The negro wanted to be with the white folks. He said that he was holding 
the kind of meetiug you spoke of. 

Question, Democratic T 

Answer, Yes, sir; they went for that kind of men. Because this man that was work- 
ing with me didn't go to hear them, they took the spite out on him, and whipped us 
about it. That's what they told us. 

Question. How many men came to your shanty that night T 

Answer, About twenty ; I think, in all, twenty came there, but there was more of 

Question, Did they come on foot or on horseback T 

Answer, They left their horses right down in the bottom, about one hundred yards 
off, and walked up. 

Questton. Did you see the horses afterward? 

Answer, 1 saw them. 

Question, Were they covered T 

Answer, Tes, sir; they carried me right up to the horses. 

Question, What were they covered witht - 

Answer. With white. 

Questi^, What did the men have on over their £Aces and bodies T 

Answer, White gowns, that came down to their knees, and scolloped over the face ; 
you couldn't see his face, and he had a high hat on the head. 

Qumtion, Was the face painted T 

Anmoer, No, sir ; they hod the face covered so we couldn't see. They whipped the 
first one pretty badly. 

Question. What did they whip him with f 

Answer, With one of these pistol-holsters that comes around. They let him down 
and whipped him. They laid down a fence-rail, and tied his hands and feet to it, and 
seven men whipped him at once. They whipped him so bad he couldn't turn over, and 
he couldn't get home. 

Question, Did they have hickory T 

Answer. No, sir; Just leather straps. 

Question, What did they whip you with T 

Answer. Leather straps. 

Question, How many lashes T 

Answer, I couldn't tell you. I never was whipped so much in all the days of my 

Question, Did it make the blood run f 

Answer, Ye^ sir : it blistered me all over. I sometimes feel the pain coming back 
in my back now ; I never have got well from it ; it hurt me so bad. 

Question, How many of you colored people were whipped by that party T 

Anstver. There wasn't but four. 

Question, What time of night was thisf 

Answer. I think it was about 11 o'clock in the night. 

Question. Did they accuse you colored meu of voting the radical ticket f 

Anstoer, Yes, sir ; a heap of them did. They were talking and trying to make me tell 
something about the Union League they had up here. After thejr found out I camo 
from Huntsville they wanted me to tell something about the Union League ; I told 
them I didn't know anything about it; they said, '*It had been down at Decatur;" I 
knew they had a gathering down at Decatur once ; he said I was along in the crowd, 
he was told ; I told him I wasn't there, that I knew tboy went down there ; he tried to 
make me tell about some man that was at the head of it ; I don't know who it was 
now ; tboy tried to make me tell ; I told them I didn't Imow who was at the head, and 
I didn't know. Then they whipped me and whipned me, and then I wouldn't tell, and 
one of tbeni thought he would take up a fence rau and kill me, but the captain of the 
Ku-Klnx said, *^ No, let him up ; don't hurt him any more ; you have done enough to 
him." One said, ** Damn me if I don't kill him," and the captain got sort o' mad because 
they wanted to kill me, and he wouldn't let them; he said no, I should not bo killed, 
and be didn't go to kill me. Then they let me up and took another man ; that man is 
out here now ; they whipped him : he would raise up his head every once in a while 
when tboy were whipping him, and one of them had brass spurs on, and bo struck him in 
his face with the spur ; he struck him on the top of the head about that deep, (two 
inches ;) they took two bones out of that man's head, and he bled a great deaL After 


he got w«]], M he thought, and got the wound cored, it broke ont again, and the doo- 

ter took two bonee oat of it since. 
Qiu»tion, What did they tell you yon must do when they left you T 
Answer, Tbey told us we must go home and go to work on the railroad, and be good 

boys, and when they came across us again they wouldn't hurt us ; but that other man 
that got away, named Scruggs, they told him they would make his coffin, and set it in 
his bouse, for they were going to kill him. 
Queatwn, Kill him for whatf 

Antwer, They didn't say. Tbey said he had been talking some big talk, tbcy beard, 
and they were going to kill him, and tbey shouldn't talk such big talk ; tbut we had 
got so here that we thought we could rule tbis country. 

Question. Did they call theidtelves Ku-Klux f 

Answer, Tes, sir; they said they were just from hell; that they had had no water 
for three or four days at a time ; they said God sent them down here, and they were 
going to rule us. 

Question, Did you see them drink any water f 

Answer, No, sir ; they came and asked for a drink of water, and we told them we 
didn't have any, and he said it was a damned lie ; he would have a drink ; that be 
hadn't had any for three or four days. 

Question, Did he tell you bow to vote f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; at tbis time General Grant's election was coming, and it was done 
before his election come on. 

Question. How did they tell you to vote T 

Answer. They told us to vote for Seymour or Blair ; one of them men. 

Question. What was the name of the colored man who had the money ; the ^00 f 

Answer. Scruggs. 

Question. Ton say they took all his money T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did they take any money away from you T 

Answer, No, sir ; I didn't have any down there. • 

Question. Did any of the rest of your friends have any money f 

Answer, No, sir ; not with me. 

Question. Did any of you have any gunsT 

Answer. No, sir ; not even a pistol. One from here said he heard one had a pistol, 
aod said he was owning it, but he never got it. 

Question, What did tbey accuse him oft 

Answer. Of being a Union League; that was what he said ; he said I must go home 
ttd bo good, and vote. 

Question. Vote for Seymour and Blair T 

Answer, Yes, sir ; tbey said they is our men, and the country belonged to them, and 
we must give them our vote. 

Question, Did tbey say tJiey would lick you again if you didn't vote for them f 

Answer, No, sir ; they didn't say tbey would lick me. 

Question, How many lashes do you think bit you f 

Answer. I couldn't tell you ; but I think it was something like a thousand ; I think 
KTeo men whipped me at once, and every lick was a hard one. I never was whipped 
10 bad in the days of my life ; I thought my time had come to die; I just gave up to 
die; I couldn't do any other way ; that's the first time I bad been in trouble in my 

Question. Did you know who these men were f 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question. Did you men who had been treated in this way go and make complaint 
»l>out it to anybody! 

Answer, Yes. sir. 

Question. Who to f 
. Antwer, Mr. Williams here had cbargo of the depot ; come on that day ; he heard of 
{t, and bo saw us, and wo aimed to catch him at Decatur, but we couldn't catch him 
belbn; the train went aloug ; he said it was away down below Decatur, and we could 
f,o on to go up to HuntsvilTo; we told bim about it and ho got mad about it ; said it 
^as a mighty bad way to do, bothering the bands when they were taking rest at right, 
or mnning in on them in that way. 

Question. You were all in bed T 

Answer, Yes, sir, and asleep ; we had been working pretty hard that day. 

Digitized by 



HuNTSViLLE, Alabama, Oetoher 12, 1871. 

JESSE BROWN (colored) sworn and examined. 
By the Chairbiax : 

Question, Where do yon live? 

Answer, Here in town. 

Question, Where were yon bom and raised f 

Answer, Below Atlanta, Georgia, ten miles below there. 

Question. How long have you lived in Madison Ooonty f 

Aneioer. I have been here ever since the war. 

Question, Were you a soldier in the wart 

Anstcer, Yes, in the Forty-fourth regiment. 

Question. Have you ever been whipped or otherwise outraged by the Ku-Klnx Klon f 

Answer, Yes, sir; I have. 

Question, Toll the committee what the Eu-Klux did to yon. 

Answer, Yes, sir ; we were working on the railroad. One night about dark, or after 
dusk, they came in as I was getting supper and took ns away up into the inonntaiuH, 
to the graveyard, and took me down and whipped me ; they took me down, but conhln'c 

get mo down to whip me, and one of them took his spur and struck my head rii^bt 
ere, and broke my skull here; I pulled out two pieces as big as my thumb nail. 

Qtmstion, How often were you struck by them f 

Anstcer, About a hundred lashes, I reckon. After they did that they tried to kill me 
but the captain said, ^* Don't kill him. I am not aiming to kill him.'' 

Question. How many men were concerned in the whipping f 

Answer, 1 can't toll you ; there was so many whipped at that time, I couldn't teU. 

Question, As well as you could jadge how many were there f 

Answer. As well as I could judge there was about twenty-five. 

Question. Did they have on disguises f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; false faces, and all the rigging. 

^e8<iow. Long gowns f • 

Answer. Yes, sir : long white gowns, some black. 

Question. Were tney on horseback or on foot T 

Anstcer. On horseback. 

Question. Were the horses covered f 

Anstcer. Yes, sir ; but they were sorrel horses, every one of them ; all of them were 

Question. Do you mean that the covering was sorrel f 

Answer. No, sir, the horses were sorrel ; the covering was white. 

Qttestion. Were these men armed T 

Answer, Yes, sir ;• they had guns and pistols. 

Question. Had you gone to bed when they came in f 

Answer, No, sir ; I bad not got through supper ; jUst came in ftom the railroad. 

Question. Whose shanty were you boarding in f 

Anstcer. John Troxei on the railroad ; he is now on the Mobile and OJiio Railroad. 

Question. What did they say when they came to the shanty T 

Answer. Nothing but open the door, and we wouldn't open the door ; wo woaldn't 
open it, but they rared and pitched so that they sheered the door up and broke off tbe 

Question. What did they do T 

Atiswer, Tliey only took us up in the mountain to the graveyard. 

Question. What did they say they where taking you up there fort 

Answer. They didn't say. I asked them, because I hadn't been there but two weeks. 

Question, Did they look for guns T 

Anstcer, Yes, sir; they looked for all they could find. 

Question, Did they find any in the shanties T 

Anstcer, Not in our shanty. 

Question, I>id they search the other shanties T 

Anstcer, Yes, sir, all but two ; one was in the section boss's yard, and the other down 
the road about one hundred yards. 

Question, Did they find any guns T 

Anstcer, No, sir. They took some of the boys' watches firom them. 

Question, Did they rob anybody of money T 

Answer. Yes, sir, they took $100 from a man named Scruggs ; he ia now at Decatur ; 
and they took his watch too, a nice silver watch. 

Question. Did you know any of the men who were disguised! 

Anstcer. No, sir, they were strangers to me; I had just went over from here, and had 
been only two weeks there. 

Question. What did they do with you at the graveyard? 

Anmter. Thi*y tied mo down on a cedar pole; thoy tied my feet and hands, and I 
wonldu't put uiy head down for them to whip me, and he broke my skull. 


QmHan^ With a spur f 

Aiuwer, Yes, sir. I laid six months with it before I got well. 

Question. How did he hit you? 

Answer. When I went to raise my head np he kicked me with hia big brass spTir. 

QuaUon. How many lashes did he hit you T 

Answer. He hit me, I reckon, about one hundred lashes. 

QuesUon. What did they say they were doing this for f 

Answer. They didn't tell me what for ; they wouldn't tell us that ; they Just came 
right in after us. The moon was shining as bright as day. 

QuMon. How many did they take up T 

Answer. The took up five of us in that bouse ; the other two boys were in the house 
with tbe boys, and they didn't get them, Nat Tissig and Henry Thompson ; they didn't 
get them. 

QueslUm. Did any of your party escape T • 

Answer. Yes, sir ; these two made the escape. When they sot Scruggs up there he 
got away ; his horse was standing aa far as Kom here to the chair, anohis bridle rein 
was over his neek, and he jumped for the horse. 

Questum. Did he ride him away T 

Answer. No, sir; be wasn't quick enough, but he ran himself and they shot at him. 
I was hardly able to get back ; .1 wasn't able to get home next day. 

Question. Did you have any consciousness after you were hit in the head f 

Answer. No, sir ; it pains me now ; every time it goes to rain it bothers me a heap 

Question. Did they say anything to yon about yonr belonging to the Loyal League T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; they said that the Huntsville fellows belonged to the League, and 
this man that jost went out (Henry Hamlin) said no, he didn't. I didn't say nothing 
then; I didn't say a word ; they didn't give us a chance to talk, but went to beating 

Question. Did they tell you how to vote t 

Answer. No, sir ; they didn't say nothing about voting to me. 

Question, Did you hear what they said after you were struck by the spurt 

Answer. No, sir ; I didn't hear what they said. I believe I was the last one they 
whipped. When they struck me ou the head with the spur they lefb me right off. 

Questum. You hadn't any senses left after that f 

Answer. No, sir ; I didn't know what they were doing. I just told you my best judg- 
ment ; that's all I know. 

Question. How long was this before the presidential election f 

Answer. It has been three years ago. 

Question. Three years this month f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did you ever have anybody taken up for this f 

Answer. No, sir ; I came to Huutffville as soon as it was done. The next morning 
tiie boys fetched me home. They had to walk home, and they had to tote me part of 
tbe way ; I couldn't walk. I had to lay down all night, and couldn't get home, and 
when I got home I didn't know anything at all. Colonel Williams, down at the depot, 
knows the very time it was done. Some soldiers went down to Dacatur ; they dian't 
get down to where it was done. 

Question. Was anything ever done to these men that whipped you in this way T 

Answer. No, sir ; not a thing. 

By Mr. Blair: ^ 

Question. Colonel Willisuns, where is he f 
Answer. He is down at the depot ; he is about here somewhere. 
Question. Is he at the depot now 7 

Answer. Yes, sir ; he stays there. He was there the last time I saw him. 
Question. You say you wore very badly injured and had to stay in bed for some timet 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did ^on have any physician to attend you—any doctor T 
Answer. Yes, sir. 
Question, What doctor? 

Answer. Dr, Ronan and Dr. Benford: he probed my head to see how deep it was cut. 
He said it Just missed the brain-pan a little bit, or it would have killed me. 
Questi4m. Do they both live here T 
Answer. Yes, sir. I haven't seen Dr. Bonan for a long time. 

Digitized by 



HuNTSViLLB, Alabama, Ootober-VStf 1871. 

MAJOR GARDINER (colored) sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : 

Question, Where were yon bom and raised f 

Answer, At Gardiner's. 

Question, Id what coanty T 

Aimcer, lu this county. 

Question, Did you ever see the Ku-Klnxf 

Answer. O, yes, sir : I saw what they call Ku-Elux many a time. 

Question, Tell us when and where. 

Answer, The first time I ever saw a Eu-Klux was on a Sunday eyening, Jnst about 
sundown. We were sitting on the fence ; as I sat there, some of them come on. I 
iumped down off the fence ; it sort of frightened me to see them coming. I was aston- 
ished too. I went in the house and shut the door, and there was a hail to Have the 
door opened, and I locked it, and they rode on down. We had some horses there ; they 
rode like thoy were going to the stable and up toward the house. I says to Mr. Gard- 
iner, " Wliat shall we do T" Mr. Gardiner was my master — I staid there ; but after 
they rode down there they never got off of their horses, but went on and didn't pester 

Question, How many were in that gang f 

Ansjoer. When I saw them, only oSont twenty-five. I know there was twenty-some, 
but I didn't count particularly, because so many were to count. 

Question, Were they disguised ? 

Answer. Of course they were disguised, so that folks wouldn't know them and swear 
what they were. 

Question, Were their horses disguised T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, In what year was this T 

Answer, 1 think it was about two years f^o; it may have been a little over ; I saw them 
and went on in the house. That was on Sunday. On Tuesday night, next week, they 
sent word over there that they were coming. I was astonished. I weut un and disked tho 
white folks if they were goins to pester us here. I went up and asked Mrs. Gardiner ; 
I was living on her place. Old master was sick with a sticking-plaster on his face. She 
said, " I don't know what to do. Major, but if I was you I would leave." I said I hate 
to leave my crop. My sister sent for me, and just as I got in the house I pulled off my 
coat and shut the door, and jnst as I shut it tnree balls struck in the door, and I don't 
know how it happened ; but it raiued fifteen minutes about as hard as I ever heard it, 
and it thundered, and thundered, and lightened. I was scared, and tried to get undor 
the floor. We had only little wooden chimneys on the little houses built over the place. 
I ran out of the chimney, and I saw all of them ; I don't know how many I did see. I 

got out, and then missis told me to leave. She said she would hate to see me killed on 
er place, and then I left. 

Question. How many were there f 

Answer, Everybody said there were thirty, but I don't know how many ; I was get- 
ting out of tho way. 

Question, Were they disguised T 

Atiswcr, Yes, sir. 

Question, Were their horses disguised T 

Anstoer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did you see whether they had pistols or guns T 

Answer, I think they had pistols, but they couldn't have shot them off I took them 
to be pistols. When they first came they were taking folks' guns. I know one thla^, 
they took our guns. 

Question, When? 

Answer, The night I run out of the house. I had a pistol, and it was hnng up by 
the door, and they took it and my gun too ; and I had a soldier-gun that I gave |6 for ; 
I never got nothing for it. 

Question, They took it the night you ran out of the cabin T 

Answer, Yes, sir. They said they would* take me too. I said if they got me they 
would get me out of town. I said, " They are getting a heap of them, and I will stand 
a chance of being catched ;" and so I left there. They killed an old man there ; shot 
him five times. 

Question, That same niffhtf 

Answer, Yes, sir ; an old colored man ; a mightv old man : they shot him : he didnt 
live— let me see — not more than four days ; and tnen they wnipped around there ; they 
whipped Martin Bush, and Simon Bush, and Amos Gardiner, and I couldn't ima^iae 
who they didn't whip. \nn](> 

Question, How many do you think they whipped that night in all f -'^^l^ 


A can't say, to tell the tmth ; but they whipped a great deal. There wasn't 
a place they didn't whip on. «' 

QnaHon. Did they search any other place for guns except your place f 
Answer. Tes, sir ; they took Nelson Bell's gun away from him. 
QuifHen. Did they search all the honses for cnnsT 

Amtwer. Tes, sir. The first thing they would come up to the house and knock, and 
say, softly, '' Open this door ; I want water : I haven't had water since the Shiloh fight.'' 
I bad to get up and open the door. I couldn't do anything against a thousand men 
myselfl Wo opened the door, and they would come in and ask for water, and I would 
bring it, and they would keep drinking, and drinking, and drinkin;^, and they had 
some £dse thing put in around them somewhere, so they would keep drinking, to make 
08 blacks believe that they hadn't any since they come from the devil. They would 
say, " We haven't had any water since we come from hell ;" and everybody knows better 
than that. 

QueBtiou. What had they against you T 

Answer. I couldn't tell to save my life. 

Question. Had yon been a Union soldier T 

AMtcer. I had not been a Union soldier. I was with the soldiers, but never soldiered 
any at all. 

Qa€»tian. Yon don't know what they shot into your door for f 

Answer. No, sir; I don't know positively. I know they said we ought to vote the 
way they said. 

Question. What did they sayf 

Answer. They said we had to vote the way they wanted us to vote or not at all. It 
is true enough, there is some bad white boys as well as black. I said, " The only way 
a man gets my vote is to kill me!^ I said that, '' A man can't buy it or fool me ; I will 
not be fooled out of it." I said that before a little white boy in the shop. I wouldn't 
have said it before him if I had studied. 

Quesiion. Did he go and tell on you T 

AuMwer. I guess \ie did ; for I didn't hear any more of it until such a time they sent 
word that they were coming. 

QuiCsUon. They sent you word f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; they always send word. They sent the wrong one word, for I didn't 
libs a whipping. 

Question. Who did the Ku-Klux Klan want you to vote fort 

Answer. They always wanted us to vote the democratic ticket. Of course, if we had 
to vote, I reckon we would have been Just as ffood as the rest of them, but I always 
tboQj^^bt it was useless. They voted for who they pleased, and I thought it was lefb to 
OUT choice to vote for who we pleased. 

Question. Did thoy over .'xccuse yon of being in the Loyal League f 

Answer. I never heard that. I don't remember it. 

Question. Yuu supposed tbey were after you because you said you intended to vote 
your sentiments or not vote at all T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. You think this white boy carried the newsT 

Answer. I almost know he did; I wouldn't be positive. 

Question. You don't know any of this Ku-Kluz Klan that visited your house to identify 

Answer. No^ sir. I didn't think there was that many folks in the world that had 
anything against me. 

Question. Had you to leave your homet 

Answer. Yes, sir; and leave what hogs I had ; they were destroyed and killed up. I 
didn't save nothing except what I could haul away. I had to make my crop with re- 
sponsibility at the store ; at least the storekeepers didn't lose nothing ; I had to pay 
them after I came here ; thev took my horse and everything. 

Question. The storekeeper f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; they took my horse and everything. True, they wanted their pay, 
but I wanted my pay for making my cro^. 

Question. On whose land were you malauff your crop T 

Answer. On Jimmy Gardiner's; on my ola mistress^ place; her son was tending to 
the place. 

By Mr. Blair: 
Question. What was his namef 
Answer. Jimmy Gardiner. 
Question. How fsur is his &rm from heref 

Answer. I don't know. It is ten miles to Whitesburgh, and therefore it's more than 
fifteen miles ; it's seventeen. 

By the CHAIBMAN : Digitized by VjOO^IC 

Ques^iQm. Was Jimmy Gardiner against the Ku-Klux Klan or in favor of it T 


Answer, I can't say : bat I can say that he has been mighl^ good to me. I didn't cue 
in rebel times, when I belonged to him; he was always jsood to me. 

Question, Were there any colored men besides yovrself who had to leaye on aooonnt 
of theEu-KlnxT 

Answer, Tcs, sir ; Martin Bnsh, who is in town here now ; and Amos Gardiner, who 
has gone back to Whitesburgh; and Simon Bnsh. who has gone down to Mrs. Lack's, 
between here and Whitesbnrgh; and Ky Bosh, who has gone to Whitesborgh. 

Question. Did yon ever hear of the Eu-Klnx going there again T 

Answer, I have heard of that, bnt I didn't see them. I have been here. 

Question, How long since tou heard of their operations the last time T 

Answer, 1 haven't heard of any down in that settlement, I don't reckon, as near as I 
can come at it, for a year and a half, or a little more. 

Question, Have yon heard of the En-Klux being after the colored people anywhere 
else in this county since that timef 

Answer. Of course. I have heard of their being after them np here about Newmarket. 
I know one thing : they whipped my brother mighty bad up there. 

Question. How long agof 

Answer. About a year ago.. They whipped him mighty bad, and I never expected to 
see him alive. They cut gashes in his back as big as my finger. They cut gashes in 
his back so he couldn't do anything for a year. 1^ had to let his chil&en stay oat to 
work to get him something to live on. 

Questi4)n, Was he whipped by the Ku-Ehix T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. By how many of them T 

Ansiosr. He was whipped once, and went back to work for abont two months, and 
they whipped him so he couldn't turn over in his bed! 

Question, How many came the second time to whipf 

Answer. Only three the second time ; but they took a steady whipping nntil they 
whipped him mighty nigh dead. 

Question, What was he whipped for f 

Answer, I don't know ; I wasn't there. He told me they whipped him, and I went 
np to see him. 

Question, Did he leave there when he got able to go awayt 

Anstoer, He staid there until his year was out, and got his part of the orop, and 
moved down probably between here and Newmarket. 

Question. Did be know what he was whipped for f 

Ansufer. He said he didn't know what he was whipped for— only voting. Then he 
had to run off, and all of them had to run off and not tell them^ and he come dawn 
here, plum here, to vote. I saw him come and put his ticket in nght down here. He 
had to go back and not let them know where he had been. 

By Mr. Rice : 
Question. Were the men who whipped him disguised T 
Answer. Tes, sir. He had come right down here to vote. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. Thej whipped him to make him vote right f 

Anstoer. Yes, sir ; and he had to come down here to vote, when there was plenty of 
places right there to vote, where he couldn't vote without voting the democraiic 

By Mr. Blair: 

Question. In what direction is Gardiner's fixim heret 

Anstoer. Down to Whitesburgh and up the road up the river. 

Question. Is Mr. Gardiner living there now T 

Answer. I can't tell you. He has some place over the river. I haven't been down 
there. I couldn't say he is living there. 

Question, Who do you say your brother was living with when he was whipped? 

Answer. My brother was living up here at Newmarket. 

Question. On whose placet 

Answer. I tell you I don't know whose place it was. I have been there. I knew, 
but I have forgotten the man's name; bnt I know he was whipped mighty bad* He is 
living between here and Newmarket now. 

Digitized by 



HuJTTSViLLK, Alabama, Ociohcr 12, 1S71. 
ALKXANDER MARCHBANES (colored) sworn and examined. 
By the Chaii»ian : 
Qtiestian, Where were you bom and raised T 
Answer, In Tennessee, m Giles County. 

(iu9ti(m. How long have you lived in Madison County, Alabama T 
Answer, Three years. 

Question. Were you in tho army during the war ? 

Afiswr. No, sir ; my master took me away down South, and I staid down there 
three years in the time of the war ; I was a refngee awi^ down South. 
Question. Have you ever seen the Ku-Klux T ' 

Aftsver. Yes. sir. 
Question, Wnent 
Answer. Year before last. 
Question. Where ? 

Answer. Bight above MeridianviUe. 
Questkm. In this county T , 

Answer. Yes, sir ; year befbre last. 
Question. In what month f 
Answer. October. 

Quetitio^ How many Ku-Klux did you see then f 
Answer* Seven. 

Question. Were they disguised f 
Answer. Yes, sir. 

QvettUm. Were they mounted on horses f 
« Annoer. No, sir ; I never saw but two horses. One night they came to my house and 
got me; they came and knocked at the door. I told them I was very sick ; they asked 
where was Green, my brother. I told them he was gone. They told me to get up and 
pat on m\ shoes. I got up and put them on. They told me to come out, and I went 
out and they marched me up the road. They had another man up the road and two 
imore to guard him, and they carried us up and hung tis on a peach-limb enough to 
clioke UB^ and then they let us down, and tney hung us up again and choked us, and 
then let us down, and didn't put us up again. They squeezed the rope around my 
iieck and put the other around my head, and snapped the rope around my neck and 
made as run up the road and come bock to them backwards, and they would snap 
ibeir pistols at us, and their guns, but not shooting. 
Qw^ion. What did they say to you f 

Answer. They would tell us they were going to kill us ; they asked what we had 
Cone. I told them I hadn't been doing anything. They said they were^oing to kill 
me. They asked for Mr. Tomer. I said I didn't know where he was. They said I did. 
I told them I didn't know. 
Question* Who was Turner ? 
Answer. Mr. Henry Turner ; he lived there. 
Question, Was be a colored man T 
Answer. No, sir; a white man. 
Question^ Were they after him f i 

Answer. No, sir ; Just after me. 
QuestioH. What did they want with him T 
Answer. I don't know. 
Question. Were you working for him f 
Answer. Yes, sir; on his pl^tation. 

Question. Did they inquire after any guns or pietols at your cabin f 
Answer. Yes, sir. They asked if I had a gun. I told them I hadn't. 
Quettiou. Did they search your cabin f 

Answer. No, sir. They didn't come in at alL They just took the gun and knocked 
It over the fence. 
Qnation. Who was in the cabin with you f 
Answer. Nobody. I was by myself. 
. Question. How long was this after night t 
Ansmer. About 10 o'clock at night. 

(^mesOon. What did they tell you they wanted with you f 

Answer. They didn't say ; they told me to come up from there ; I got up ; I told them 
I was mighty sick. They told me if I didn't get up they would come in and make me 
QuestUm. Did they bind your hands T 

Answer. No, sir ; only a rope around our necks ; they kept us both tied together. 
Question. What was the other man's name that they hung with you t ^<^ i 

^Owirer. Bill MiUer. Digitized by CjOOQIC 

iisteslUm. Where did they find him t ^ 

55 A 


Amwer. At his bouse ; as far from my house as across the court-house. 

Question. Did tbey catch him first f 

Anstcer. Yes. sir : I was sound asleep when they j^ot me. When they carried me up 
the road they nad nim up by the garden, and two ot tbem had him there. 

Question, And they marched you both up T 

Anstcer, Yes, sir ; right up the road. 

Question, How far T 

Anstcer, About a quarter of a mile from the house. 

Question, Did they put ropes around your necks before you got there T" 

Answer, They bad a rope around his neck when I got there. They hadn't put any 
around my neck until we got up. 

Question. Did they jerk you up the limb of the tree T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Did they choke yon much f 

Answer. Yes, sir, mightily ; here is the scar on my neck now, [exhibiting a scar.] 

Question. Did jjrou lose you senses f 

Answer. Yes, sir, a little while. 

Question. Then they jerked you up a second time T 

Answer, Yes, sir : he took the rope and snatched it and drawed the rope tight around 
the neck with his nand, snapping it. 

Question. Did they tell you at tlie peach-tree what they were doin^ it fort 

Answer, No, eir. They said somebody had been telling what I had been doing. 

Question, What was itT 

Answer. They said I had been talking some big talk. 

Question, Big talk about whatT 

Answer. About work ; that we were not going to work just then for such a intake 

Question, How many of these Ku-Klux were up at the peach- tree T 

Answer. Five of them were up there, I believe, and two standing down at the gato 
down there. 

Question. Seven altogether T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Were they all disguised T 

Anstcer, Yes, sir ; all disguised men. 

Question, Were the horses disguised T 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I never saw but two horses. 

Question, Were they disguised f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, Did they tell you they were Ku-Klux T 

Answer, They didn't say. 

Qttestion. Did they say where they came £W)m T 

Answer. Hiey said they were just from hell. 

Question. Did they say what they were sent from hell for ? 

Answer. They didn't say. They said they were just from helL 

Qttestion. Did they tell you how you must vote T 
* Answer. No, sir; they didn't say how I must vote. 

Question, Did they say anything about radicals f 

Anstcer, No, sir. 

Question, They said you had been talking big talk f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. What did they have against this other man that they hung with yoat 

Answer, 1 don't know what. 

Question, Did they make any threats about coming back again T 

Answer. They said they would come back and see us again. 

Question, Did they ever come back again ? 

^fi«irer. No, sir ; they never came back. I wasn't there, when they came back. 

Question, Did you leave there soon afterward T 

Anstcer, Yes, sir. 

Question, What did you leave fort 

Answer. I didn't know but what they might come back again on us, and I left there. 

QuesUon, How far was that from HnntsviUe T 

Anwcer, Twelve miles. 

Question. Where did you go'to T 

Anstcer, Down here. 

Question. To Huntsville T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

QtusOon. You have been living here ever since f 

Anstcer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Where is this man that was hung with you f r^ \ 

Answer. He is up around there now. Digitized by V^OOQlC 

Question, He didn't leave! ^ 


Antwer. No, sir ; he didn't leave ; he is right tip there now. 

QmtUm, Did you ever see the Ku-Klnx at any other time T 

Answer. Yes, sir; I saw them a great many times. 

Quesium. Where? 

Answer. In Maury County, Tennessee. 

Question. Before you came heret 

Answer, Yes, sir; I saw them by the hundreds. 

Question, Have you ever seen them in Alabama, except this one time when they Ku- 
Kmxed you f 

Answer. No, sir ; never saw them in Alabama before. 

Question, Have you ever heard of their visiting colored people f 

Answer, Ye8,^r. * 

Question. Frequently? ' 

Answer, No, sir ; not lately. 

Question, How long since you heard of the Ku-Klux last time T 

Answer. I heard of them laat year, up by Newmarket, disturbing some black people. 

Question, Did you hear what they were disturbing the black people about T 

Answer, No. sir; I didn't hear; it was something about voting, I believe. 

Question. Have you got anything else to tell t 

Answer, No, sir ; I believe not. 

By Mr. Bi<^ : 
Question, Who did you belong to in Tennessee T 
Anmcer. Judge Marolibanks. 
Question, Did he live in Giles County T 
Answer, Yes, sir. ' 

HuNTSViLLE, Alabama, October 12, 1971. 

HENRY KIDD (colored) sworn and examined. 
By the Chairman : . . 

Question, Where were you born and raised T 

Answer, In South Alabama, Montgomery. 

Question. How long have you lived in Madison County T 

Answ&r, Going on two years. 

Question. What part of Madison County f 

Answer. Up here to the left of Meridian ville. 

Question. How far from Huirtsville f 

Answer. Twelve miles. 

Question. On whose plantation f 

Answer. Mr. Turners— Parson Turner's son, Henry Turner. 

Quesiian. Did you ever see any Eu-Elux while you were living up there T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question. In the day-time, or in the night f 

Answer. In the night-time. 

Qujesti4m. How late at night f 9 

Answer. About 12 or 1 o'clock ; they got after me there. 

Question. Were you in your caoin at the time f 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

(Question. Were you married T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Qu&ftion. Were you and your wife abed and asleep f 

Anstcer. Yes, sir. 

Question. Did they come to your cabin T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; 4hey came there, but they didn't get there before I saw them. 

Qfuoftion. How many were there in the crowd f 

Answer. I don't remember of seeing but five ; three came down in the yard and two 
had this yooug man, Aleck. Marchbanks, in the lane ; me and him was in the same 
place ; by the women disturbing, being pestrated, thoy \Caked me up, and T saw them 
coming to my door, and I ran out in my drawers, and took my gun on out ; they were 
alter my g^n ; it was the coldest night almost I ever felt. 

QnesUon. How long ago was that f 

Answer. It was two years ago in November. 

QuesHon. It will be two years next month f 

Answer, Yee,sir. 

Qnegtion. You say it was a cold night f r^ ^^^^T^ 

Answer. Yes, sir. Digitized by ^^OOgle 


Question. Was the ground frozen T 

Armoer. Yes, sir ; plowed up. I was standing oat two hoars and a half before they 
left there ; they kept in the road two hours and a half. 

Question, They didn't catch you f 

Answer, No, sir ; they went to my house twice ; they went there after they came 

Question, How do you know they were after your gun f 

Answer, They told about it; they told it all about the settlement that they wfcre 
going to stop me from hunting ; white people told me I had better sell it. Thie next 
Saturday they came and got several fellows' guns on the place and broke them up, and 
were after mine. 

Quegtion. Did they ever visit you a second time f 

Answer, Yes, sir. They came a third time after me, but they never got my gun. 

Question, Did you see them the second time f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; every time. 

Question, How many were there T 

Answer, About twenty, it appeared. 

Question, Were they disguised ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; the horses and everything else covered. You couldn't tell whether 
it was a spirit or what it was. 

Question, How did you escape that time ^ 

Answer, I was from home, and was coming home, and standing right in the field in 
the plantation, looking at them close enough to see them. 

Question, How late at night was that f # 

Anstcer, About twelve o'clock. 

QuesHon, How long was that after the^first time when they came there f 

Answer, About two weeks. . 

Question. Were they disguised like those who first came f 

Answer, They were always disguised ; I never saw any except disguised. 

Question, Did they go into your house this second time f 

Answer, No, sir; they didn't get off of the horses. 

Question. Did they halt before your house T 

Answer, They halted at the gate, and inquired of somebody if Mr. Turner was there, 
and he wasn't there, and they didn't stop. He was a young man, and wasn't married. 

Question, Were they after him f 

Ansxoer, They said they wanted to see him, and they wrote a sign for him on the 
gate-post. - 

Question. A notice T 

Answer. Yes, sir. 

Question, What was it f 

Answer, I don't know ; I couldn't read. 

Ques^^ni, Were they friendly or unfriendly f 

Answer, I don't know. 

Question. Did he tell you what the notice was T 

Answer. No, sir ; he never told me. 

Question. They were after Mr. Turner that time and not after you f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; they didn't i)e8ter me. 

Question, You say that you saw them a third time f 

Answer, Yes, sir. • 

Question. How long after the second time was it that they came again T 

Answer. It was on Christmas, the first Saturday night ; I believe it was a year ago 
last Christmas ; the first Christmas day was Saturday ; it was that night. 

Question, What time of the night did they come theu f 

Ansfner. I was about a half a mile from home; I had been to Henry Turner's 
father's house ; they had a store down there ; I was coming back ; there was a hedge- 
fence all along, and I had got pretty well home, and I jumped down off the mmet 
turned him loose, and took tlie bridle and crept through tiie hedge and went home ; I 
didn't want them to see me. • 

Question, Did you see them ride by T 

Answer, I heard the whistles, and the moon was bright as day. 

Question, Could you see them at a distance ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; tliey were coming on talking fine talk like they were crying. 

Question, How many were in the crowd t 

Answer, Thirty or forty ; they were just marching. I know where they went ta 
They came nearly to Huutsville, about five or six miles out here, ami had a dance. 

That was the first Christmas night they held a big dance out here at Mr. , I can't 

'hink of his name — who is a cousin ot Mr. Turner. I know I could go to his house 

Question. Did they commit any mischief? 

Ansioer, No, sir ; they didn't appear to me like they wore.after any. I didn't let them 
see me. ^ 


Quesihm, Did yoa hear of their hnrting anyhody that night T 

Ansntr, No, air. I know they ran me powerfol one night. 

Qtu9tU>». What night f 

Anatcer. That first night, if they had caught mo, they would have had a rope around 
my neck and taken my gun, too. 

Question, Have you ever seen any Ku-Elux since that Saturday night T 

Answer, No, sir. 

Qtiestkm, Have yon heard of them sinee in that country T 

Answer, Tes, sir ; I haven't seen them. 

Question, When did yon last hear of the Eu-Klux T 

Answer, The last I heard was down at Madison Station, where I live now. 

QnesHon, How long ago was thatf 

Answer, The time is not long j it was in the first of spring. 

Question, Of this year T | 

Answer, Yes, sir. , 

Question. What did they do at Madison Station T ^ 

Answer, Thev were after some colored men down there; it was the time of the last 
election ; you know what time that was. 

Question. Was it last faU T 

Answer, I reckon. 

By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Was it when they elected county superintendent coeducation, last March T 

Answer. I believe that was the time ; that was the Inst I saw. 

Question. What were they doing at Madison Station f 

Answer. There came a whole crowd of fellows from Limestone County that came np 
to Madison Station to vote, and the^ wouldn't let them vote there, and they got on 
their horses and came up to Huntsville to vote, and they waylaid the road that night 
for them fellows. 

QuetHon, Were those colored men who come up here to vote ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, How many of them f 

Answer. Four; they wanted to vote at Madison Station, and they wouldn't let them 
do it, and they got on their horses and came up here to vote. 

Question, And these Ku-Klux waylaid them on their return f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Did they catch them f 

Answer, No, sir ; they came right through the plantation where I live ; they were 
after them that night ; they had whistles and horns, and all kinds of music. 

Question, Do you know how many there were t 

Answer, No, sir. 

Question. How man v whistles were there T 

Answer. It appeared to me like there were five hundred ; it was the prettiest music 
you ever saw. 

QuesHon, That was last spring T 

Answer. Yes, sir ; last election. 

Question. Were the Kn-Klux around pretty thick at the last election through the 
ccmnty, or was this the only case you heard off 

Answer, That was the only case I heard of; that^was within a mile of me. 

Question, Yon didn't travd abroad much T 

Answer. No^ sir ; nowhere much, because a black man don't stand much to travel 
uileas he is right on a railroad and got mone^ ; if a man has a family he has to 
staod dose around and be humble as a dog or he is eat np. 

Question. Did you know what was going on right about where you were living f 

Answer. Yes, sir ; right around me. 

Question. Did these men who came on to Huntsville want to vote the republican 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, And these Ku-Klux wanted to prevent them from voting f 

Answer, I don't know whether it was Ku-Klux wanted to prevent them, but the men 
folding the poll down there wouldn't let them vote until they came on to Huntsville. 

Que&on. Why were their votes refused there f 

Answer. I don't know: they wouldn't let them vote, and they got on their horses 
and came on to Huntsville. 

Digitized by 



HuNTSViLLE, AukDAHA, (kdoher IZ, 1871. 

THOMAS U. GREEN sworn and examined. 
By Mr. Buckley : 

Question, Please to state where you reside. 

Answer. Here in Hnntsville. 

Question, How long have you resided here T 

Answer, I came here in 1864. I have resided in this county all my life. 

Question, Are you a native of this county of Madison f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, The object of the committee, Mr. Green, is to ascertain the condition of tho 
State of Alabama, and this portion of it especially now, in regard to the securi^ of 
life, person and property ; and, as you reside here, we dpsire to ask you a few questions. 

Ansiver, Very well, sir. 

Question. Have you ever been a member of the United States grand Jury in session 
here T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, At what time T 

Answer, 1 believe that I have beeii a member of all the grand juries we have had 
since the war, except the last. 

Question, Were you a member of the grand jury in November, 1869 T 

Answer, Yes. sir. 

Question, Who was your foreman at that time t 

Answer, Judge Charlton. 

Question, He nas since been killed, I believe ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Qtiestion, Will you state to the committee whether or not indictments were found 
under the civil-rights bill by that grand jury ? 

Answer, There were, sir. 

Question, About how many T 

Anstcer. I don't recollect ; it has been so long, and these cases not having been 
brought up before the courts and no record of them, it would be altogether guess- 

Question. Give the number as near as you can remember. 

Ansu)ei\ The number of indictments altogether, I think, would amount to thirty, or 
upward; but a great many of those were mr illicit distilling, perhaps half of them. 

Question, Were any indictments found for homicide f 

Answer. I think there were, sir ; I know there were. 

Question, You think the entfie number amounts to about thirty-odd f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; thirty or more. 

By the Chairman : 

Question. What became of those indictments f 

Answer, I don't know, sir. 

Question, Have the parties indicted over been brought to trial upon them f 

Anncer, I think not. In one case, I think from Limestone, the parties were sum* 
moned here and the case put off. I don't think any other parties have been brought 
into court. 

Question, Do you know what has become of the indictments T 

Answer. No, sir. 

Question. Was a record of them made on the docket T Were they entered on tbo 
docket f 

Answer. The indictments were taken charge of by the solicitor at the time. 

Question. Who was he f 

Answer. Mr. Southworth. We had a change of solicitors during that court. South- 
worth succeeded Bugb^, and I think that created a confusion that might account for 
the mislaying of some indictments. 

By Mr. Blair : 
Question. Who presided over that court T 
Anfticer. Judge Busteed. 

Qttestion. You say Southworth was the solicitor on the part of the Government T 
Answer. He was the solicitor the latter part of the time. Ho succeeded Bugby dar> 

ing the time. 

Question. Were both of them appointed by the Government at Wasbinffton f 
Anstcer. I suppase so. Bugby had been previously acting as solicitor here, and woa 

removed during that term, and this man Southworth took nis place during court. 

By the Chairman : 
Question. You say there were indictments for homicide found by the grand jury f 
Anstcer. Yes, sir. 


QuesHon, Were tbey against men irho were alleged to be disguised t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; some of them were. 

Question, Disgnised after tbe mannq^ of the Kn-Klaxf 

Anmoer, Tee, sir. 

HuNTSVitLE, Alabaaia, OofoJer 13, 1871. 
WILLIAM M. LOWE sworn and examined. 

The Chairman. As this witness has been called at the request of the minority, his 
exaniination may be conduoted by General Blair. « 

By Mr. Blair: 

Question, State your present place of residence, Colonel. 

Amwer, I was born and raised, and still live, in Huntsville, Alabama. 

Questitm, What is your agef 

AHSvoer, I will be thirty the 16th of next January. 

Qnestion, What is your business or profession t 

Jjwtcer. Lawyer. 

QviestUm, Do you practice law here T 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I practice law hero and in this judicial circuit, and occasionally 
in Limestone, the adjoining county. 

Question, What counties compose this judicial circuit t 

Answer, Madison, Marshall, Johnson, De Kalb, Cherokee, Blount, and I also practice 
oeeasionally in Limestone, which is not in this circuit. 

Qwestion, Were you at any time the solicitor for this district ? 

Answer, I was. I was elected solicitor in 1865 under the Patton government. 

By Mr. Buckley : • 

Question, By the legislature f 
Ansfeer, By the le^slatnro. 

By Mr. Blaiu: 

Question, Do you recollect of prosecutinc:, as solicitor of this district, an indictment 
tgaioBt a man by the name of Shapard in Blount County ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Qmestion. The same old man who testified here the other day t 

Ansiwer, Yes, sir j the same one I saw in town, and I understood he testified here. ' 

QuesUon, Was his name William Sbaphard f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; the same man. 

QuestUm, What was the indictment f 

Answer, One was for hog-stealing, and the other for an assault with intent to mur- 
der, or assault with intent to kill. 

Questum. Will you state whether the defendant Shapard made affidavit in either of 
these cases for a continuance f 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I remember verr well of his either making written affidavit or a 
"Utement under oath that Colonel Davis here, my brother-in-law, was his counsel for 
the defense, which statement I knew to bo false, and stated to the court it was false. 
He persisted in it. I said that Colonel Davis had told nie that ho did not intend to go 
to Blount County, and, in reference to this special case, that he would not go, because 
Shapard had not paid him his fee, and he knew from his charac^r that he would 

Question, This affidavit was made for the purpose of obtaining a continuance t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; he got a continuance bv it. 

QnesHon, Was the case ever finally tried 7 

Anmeer. I do not know ; I never went to that court after that. 

Question. Was that the case for assault with intent to kill t 

Answer, Yes, sir; I think it was. 

QuesHwi, On what gronnd was the case against him for hog-stealing ended f 

Answer, My recollection is not very distinct as to that, but I believe that the indict- 
nient passed off upon a demurrer, upon the ground that there was no description or no 
asoertainmeut of tne value of the property stolen. 

Question, In tbe indictment t 

Answer. In the indictment. I think it just said certain hogs, describing the ht.js as 
property of so arid so, without assigning any value. I think that was the g: ound 
^tlMUgh I am not certain. 

Question, Did jrou examine the witnesses against him in that case? 

Answer. Yes, sir; they were examint'd before the grand jnry. % C^ r\r\rAo 

Question. Did they make the proof clear that he had taken these hogs f vjOO^LC 

'dnsfwcr. 1 thought so. It was an ex-jmrte examination, as all examinations aro r-jfore 


the grand jary, bnt I bad no donbt of his goilt He told me he had been several tinMB 
indicted for stealing — ho^-Btealing and sheep-stealing — ^bat I do not think he had ever 
gotten up to the dignity of horse-stealing. ^ • 

Question, What was his character and reputation for tmth and veracity f 

Answer, Why, it was exceedingly bad ; bad as conid be. 

Question. Colonel, were yon in the army daring the war T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Which army t 

Answer. In the southern army. 

Question, fiid you serve through the wart 

Answer, Yes, sir ; I went in the first companv that left here for Virginia, in the Fonrth 
Alabama Influitry, and at the first battle of Manassas I was very badly wounded in the 
side of the head, and was discharged ; I afterward entered the service in the west. In 
cavalry ; I served upon General Witners's staff for a while ; upon General Chinton's stafF 
for a while— Clanton of this State ; I commanded a battalion of seven companies ; 
General Clanton commanded a brigade. 

Question, The object of the committee is, by examining witnesses, to ascertain tlie 
condition of affairs in the South, the manner in which the law is cnforce<l, and peace 
preserved in this State. Will you iuform the committee what your opinion in regard 
to that matter is t 

Ansioer. At this time t 

Question, Yes, sir. *" 

. Answer. I think that, as far as my observation extends, the law is about as woU en- 
forced now as it has ever been in this State. 

Question, Is the condition of the conntry peaceable f 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Is public sentiment in favor of the enforcement of the law t 

Answer. Yes, sir; I have never known public sentiment more decidedly and gener- 
ally in favor of law and order in North Alabama than it is at this time. 

Question. Do yon know anything about secret organizations that have existed in thia 
region of conntry since the war, an organization known as the Loyal League and cue 
known as the Ku-Klux Klan f 

Answer. I never was a member of eitheiT of these organizations; I am very confident ^ 
that both of them existed here. 

Question. Will you state briefly what, in your opinion, drawn from your observation, 
viere the objects and character of each of these organizations t 

Anstcer, I think that the object of the Loyal League, as it was called, jud^ng from its 
results, was to unite the negro population of this countrv in a secret political of^ui- 
zation, for the purpose of being used politically against the native white population of 
the country. The Loyal League, as I understood it, was organized here by a set of 
itinerant, irresponsible, worthless men from the North, whom we designate carpet- 
baggers, who came here for political purposes, and who live upon the strifb, the pas- 
sion, and the prejudices engendered by the antagonism of rac^ When the League 
was first organized, which was shortly after the war, and the people of the South were 
sore and bitter, aud passionate, and in a condition very likely to become eun^ed and 
indignant, and this League organization arraying the negroes against the whites 
excited the whites so that a portion of them went te the extreme of forming a counter 
organization, which was known here as the Ku-Klux Klan, as an offisetto the League ; 
I looked upon the League as the cause, and the Klan as the effect; the one as the ^11, 
and the other as the fever following it. 

Question, Was there a general sentiment in the country at the time of the bandin^^ 
together of these negroes in this Leap^iio for political purposes, that it was dangerooa to 
the life and proi>erty of the people of the South t 

Answer, Yes, sir ; there was a very general apprehension throughout the country of 
danger to society, and the Ku-KIux were organized for the purpose of protecting society 
generally. I have never known of any instance in which the Ku-Klux iutenered in 
politics or took any part in politics. I believe they were composed exclusively ef 
democrats, and ultra democrats, bat I do not think they wore politicians ; I think the 
politicians of the country were opposed to the Klan. 

Question. The fact that they were democrats resulted from the other fact that the 
entire body of the whites were democrate? 

^if*?rer. Yes, sir ; I believe upon the proposition submitted for the ratification ct 
rejection of the present constitntion of Alabama, there was not a score of whites in 
Madison County who voted in favor of that constitution ; the whites were uuanimons 
in their support of the democratic party. 

QuesUon. When the negroes were first liberated and banded together in these Loyal 
Leagues, were they in the habit of pilfering to any great extent f 

-4 n«tt>er. Yes, sy; they were charged with that. ^^ , 

Question. Was there mnch plundering in the couutr>' t Digitized by vjOOQ IC 

Answer, I did not live in the country, aud they never stole anything m>m me, \mt 


theconzts were fall of such oases, and tho general charge was tLat tbo country was 
in 8Qoh a state of insecarity, and society was so disturbed, tkat it was essential that 
there should he some sort of patxol, some kind of gnard, and I tbink tbo Kn-Klnx 
KlaO) following in the idea or the old patrol of the Sontb, was originally organized 
for the pornoee of preventing stealing and depredations of that sort by the negroes 
upon the whites. «ow there was a new court, a county court, organized in the State 
of Alabama, and that court was filled with negroes all the time, constantly ; that court 
was^lmotft constantly in session, and there were from fifty to two hundred negroes, 
either witnesses or parties, lying around this court-house here all the time. Judge 
ScTQgES was the presiding judge at first, then Judge Douglass camo in, and a negro 
thwgbt he was hardly exactlv free unless ho had a lawsuit with somebody ; a great 
maay of these cases were of the most frivolons and trifling character, and they got a 
krge number of witnesses : they being ignorant and unacquainted with their rights or 
die manner of enforcing tnem, would get a great manv witnesses brought here and 
boond over who really knew nothing of tho matters in dispute, and frequently the 
matters of dispute were of the most trivial and unimportant character. But there was 
I general impression in the community that these trivial and light offenses could not 
beponished in the courts, as they were constituted, without a great deal of trouble and 
expense, and these disguised men concluded to take the law in their own hands. 

Quesiion, Were there also apprehensions felt of violence on tho part of these negroes, 
banded together in this way, and especially w«re there apprehensions for the safety of 
the women f 

Antwer. Yes, sir. As far as my opinion is concerned, I had a great deal more confi- 
dence in the good temper and good feeling of the colored people than the majority of 
the white men of the country, and still have ; but it was generally apprehended in the 
onintry that there was danger from outrange by straggling parties of negroes going 
aboht the conntry with their guns at all times of day ana night. They were appre- 
bensiTe of ontragcfb being committed upon women and children. 

Qnestian, These generally were the reasons, as yon give them, for the organization of 
the counter plan, or body of Ku-Klnx f 

Jntwar. Yes, sir ; that was my understanding. I never saw but one body of Kn-Elusr, 
aod I suppose that bod^ composed the strength of tbe organization in Madison County, 
vbieh was the night of the so-called riot here in 1866. 

Qttation, Were you present in town during that riot t 

AMtwer. Yee, sir. 

Question. State, then, if you please, as far as yon know, the origin of that riot and what 
was done. 

Auwer, I think the origin of tbe riot was that the Ku-Klux Klan had been riding 
aboat tbe country — that is as I understood it. I never saw them, but the newspapers 
gave accounts of their whipping colored men about the country, and threatoning them, 
and taking them out and advising them how they must conduct themselves. 1 never 
beaid of their advising them about any political matter, but about their personal de- 
meanor. For instance, if they heard a negro was insolent or lazy they would tell him 
be must be respectful and industrious. If he had a bad name for stealing — and fre- 
qneatly when they would st-eal, as is the case now, the employer would not report a 
good working-hand ; he will take it out of his wages, or compromise it with him in some 
way— the Ku-Elux, when they would hear of these instances of stealing, would go to 
tbe negro and take him out and either whip him or warn him. There had been a good 
deal of sentiment in the town among the leaders of the democratic ysLTty in opposition 
to the Kq-K1ux, and denunciations of the Ku-Klux through the Huntsville Democrat 
and the Huntsville Independent, two democratic papers. They had first looked upon 
it, when reported in the Tennessee papers, as a myth, or as some piece of fun by boys. 
Tbey aaid tnev were the confederate dead, who had risen from their graves and were 
riding through the land at night upon phantom horses and in shadowy forms ; that 
tbey were incapaUe of being wounded ; that they could drink great barrels or buckets 
of water. I met an old negro who told me that one of them, riding at the head, drank 
aboat three large horse-buckets of water in his presence. The public sentiment of tho 
(^ommnnity denounced the oiptnization <^ the Ku-Klux, and they were threatened. 
The general idea or opinion of the community was that the military would fire upon 
them if tbey came into town, and that the negroes would fire upon them if they came 
into town, and in a species of bravado, as I understood it, they came into town that 
oi^t I think there were about or over a hundred — say a hundred and twenty-five, 
lam a pretty good judge of cavalry. They were estimated as high as five hundred, 
bat there were not more than one hundred and twenty-five at the most, general. 

QwtiUm. That mistake is very often made by persons unaccustomed to cavalry t 

ia««r. 0, yes, sir. General Clanton's command, which was at times not a thou- 
BaQd, would be estimated at five or ten thousand. They came in and rode around the 
court-house, where the republican meeting was being held. ^ r^ i 

Qmtion. Did you see them ? Digitized by CjOOQIc 

^IwiMr. Yes, sir. . ^ ^ <3 


Question, Did you see Iboni when they came in t 

Answer, No, sir ; I did not see them until they were on the east side of the court- 
house, passing down toward the market-house, where they formed in line of battle. I 
had as good a chance as anybody for personal observation, and I had a better chance 
to get at the facts from the circumstance that I took the testimony of a great many 
witnesses. I was the solicitor, and it was my duty to do it. I talked freely with the 
civil and military authorities, and acted in conjunction with Captain Richardson, who 
was my partner, in taking the testimony both of citizens and soldiers. 

Question. Did you take any testimony of negroes ? 

Answer, O, yes, sir. I guess there were about thirty or forty witness. There were 
about seventy in all, and I think at least two-thirds of them wei'e negroes. The firing, 
when the Ku-Klux had passed almost entirely around the court-house, commenced at 
the north door of the court-house and was directed northward. Judge Tturlow was 
killed at the north gate ; ho was shot and afterward died. He stated to his carpet-bag 
friends in town that ne was killed by his friends and killed accidentally. I have no doubt 
that is true, not the slightest. Neither do I doubt that the negro that was sitting upon 
the steps of the Democrat office was also killed accidentally. He was a boy. He was 
shot through the heart and died immediately. They were the only parties killed. Two 
white men and one negro* were wounded, besides a white man and negro that were 
killed. The Ku-Klux did not fire a gun. They did not move from their statue-like 
bearing upon their horses. They formed in line of battle when the firing commenced 
upon Market street. I saw General Ri5ger and some of his officers upon the hotel bal- 
cony and spoke to them while the Ku-Klux wore passing around the court-Louse. 
General Ruger and some member of hia staff commented upon the admirable manner in 
which they deployed into line, and their general movement and bearing, and I think 
General Ruger said that there was no law to prohibit it ; that it was very absurd, but 
there was no law, Federal or State, against men masquerading at that time upon horse- 
back at night ; nor was there any statute in this State at the time upon the subject. 

Qu^tion. Was there a meeting going on here in the court'-house at that timef 

Answer, Ye^s, sir ; there had been a meeting going on. I think it commenced that 
afternoon, and may have been all day. . 

Question, It was a radical meeting-7republican meeting T 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question, Composed almost entirely of nep-oes t 

Answer, Yes, sir; principally of negroes, in the daj'-time. The meeting outside was 
composed of whites and blacKs. The meeting here m the court-house at night (I was 
not here myself, but I understood from my brother and brother-ii]/-law, Colonel Davis) 
was composed in a great degree of negroes. 

Question In the court-house t 

Answer, In the court-house. 

Question, There was a large number of persons, white and black, congregated around 
the square ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question. Gathered to witness this parade, or for what purpose f 

Answer, I do not know what the purpose was. When! got on the square, I think the 
first gun, I am very confident the first pistol, was fired before I got on the square ; but 
early in the night, an hour or so before they came in, there was a considerable crowd 
of whites and blacks on the square. 

Question, Within the square, or on the pavements around? 

Answer, On the Commercial Row. This whole space here we call the square, and by 
the square, I mean to include the court-house and Commercial Row. 

Question, Who were the white tnen who were wounded f 

Answer, Mr. Cox, the only man I ever suspected of being a Ku-Klux, was one, I 
thought he was just the sort of a man that would take delight in that kind of au organ- 
ization—a noisy, talkative, blatant fellow. 

Question, He was shot t 

Anstcer. Yes, sir ; he was shot right through the head. 

Question, Was it known by whom he was shot f 

Answer, His impression was that an old ilan by the name of Roper shot Mm. 

Question, A ne^i'ol 

Answer, Yes, sir. My impression was that he shot Roper. They were both indicted 
for the mui-der of Thurlow. 

Question, And Roper was shot also ? 

Answer, Yes, sir. 

Question He is the same old negro who has been examined by the committee ? 

Answer, Yes, sir ; the same one. I subsequently acted as his attorney in defendins 
him. At that time I was the solicitor and was prosecuting. Subsequently, whoul 
went out of office, I defended him and Charley Hale, a negro, and. Milton Martin, a 

QuesUon, What became of the indictment t Digitized by vjOOg IC 


jMwer. Well, sir, the^ lingered on nntil, I believe, at last court, or court before 
last, tbe solicitor not being able to do anything -with tbem, these negroes being con- 
stODtlj brought here at great expense to the county, (for a great many were witnesses,) 
that he made a motion to dismiss them, made a motion for a nolle ^oaequi before the 
court, and t hey were dismissed and the whole thing was ended. 

Question. What was your impression, colonel, from what you saw, and from the evi- 
dence taken by yon and